Doxa

There are two different recordings of Tell Me on the first LP.

Tell Me short version.

This one plays only 2,52 minutes and is a totally different take than the long one. Jaggers singing and Bills bass are clearly different. The rumour is that the producer by mistake used the wrong demo tape for the acetate. Tell Me is on B side of the LP and the matrix number is XARL6272-1A. For some reason they did not get it right on the second matrix either as number XARL6272-2A is with the short demo version as well

Tell Me long version.

The mistake of the demo version was discovered pretty fast and it was replaced with the correct recording of the song. This one is a different take and plays 4,06 minutes. The matrix was again changed and has XARL6272-3A. All higher numbers are with the long version.

(c) [www.stonesondecca.com]
A lot of pictures there too.

Thanks, Ironbelly! I never heard that short version.

So the 'cold end' version of the long version is another 'mistake' - or intentional act to offer something extra - from the later years (presumbly from the 80's pressings or CD era).

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-15 10:50 by Doxa.

Okay, out of curiosity I did some research, and I get to conclusion that the first 'cold end' edit of the song derives from the 1984 'digital reissues' series, which was the first CD version of it. (The series that for the very first time ever offered also BEGGARS BANQUET in a toilet cover). The handy criterion in judging if it is a 'cold end' version is that it is if it goes over four minutes.

BUT then I saw this:



This is a vinyl release from 1984 - released supposedly around the same as the CD version (having also that ugly "digitally remastered' sign in the cover as the CD). Here is the cover:



What is this version, which lasts 3:01?

Also, seemingly German vinyl release from 1982 (of THE ROLLING STONES) contains 3:01 version. Here is the cover:



What the hec is this version? Generally different variations of THE ROLLING STONES album contain either the fade out version (3:47) or the cold end one (4:05).

What makes this personally puzzling is that I do have that 1984 vinyl version but it contains the 'cold end' long version. And I used to have that 1982 version - or at least it had that odd Jagger around 1972 cover - but I recall it having the long version with fade out!

- Doxa



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-15 12:25 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
Thanks, Ironbelly! I never heard that short version.

So the 'cold end' version of the long version is another 'mistake' - or intentional act to offer something extra - from the later years (presumbly from the 80's pressings or CD era).

- Doxa

Not really. Cold Ended version was on the UK LP on the early pressings. I would say the time line for LPs is like this.
Version I - 2.52. On very first UK LP LK 4605 with matrix XARL 6272-1A.
Version II - 4.05, cold end. - On second pressing of the UK LP with matrix XARL6272-3A (also 1964). I believe it was there for quite a while, but only for UK. Hoffman list it up till 1984 London LP 820 047-1.
Version III - 3.44, fade out - On US Englands New Hitmakers LP and on German BLK 1300-P LP. This one is the most common.
Version IV - 2.41 edit. - US single and later on Singles Collection - The London Years.
Version 5 - late fade out - Post 2002 editions.

For CDs the time line is following.
Version I - 2.52 - never issued officially. Only on bootlegs.
Version II - 4.05, cold end. - German CD London 820 047-2 Early pressings from 1984-1986 (only CDs with matrix 820 047-2 01# and 820 047-2 01# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO). Also on Japanese London-Polydor KK P33L-25014 (1985), P25L-25031 (1989) and POCD-1911 (1995)
Version III - 3.44, fade out - on US Englands New Hitmakers CD 375 (1986) and US reissues of this title. Also on late pressings of German London CD 820 047-2 (post 1988 editions with matrices 820 047-2 02# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY BY PMDC) and all French London CDs 820 047-2. Later - on European CD Englands New Hitmakers 844 460-2 (1995).
Version IV - 2.41 edit. - Singles Collection - The London Years 1989 and 1995 editions (820 900-2 and 844 481-2 for Europe, 1218-2 and 1231-2 for the US). Apparently, on Singles 1963-1965 box also.
Version 5 - late fade out - SACD-DSD remasters from 2002.

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
Doxa
Thanks, Ironbelly! I never heard that short version.

So the 'cold end' version of the long version is another 'mistake' - or intentional act to offer something extra - from the later years (presumbly from the 80's pressings or CD era).

- Doxa

Not really. Cold Ended version was on the UK LP on the early pressings. I would say the time line for LPs is like this.
Version I - 2.52. On very first UK LP LK 4605 with matrix XARL 6272-1A.
Version II - 4.05, cold end. - On second pressing of the UK LP with matrix XARL6272-3A (also 1964). I believe it was there for quite a while, but only for UK. Hoffman list it up till 1984 London LP 820 047-1.
Version III - 3.44, fade out - On US Englands New Hitmakers LP and on German BLK 1300-P LP. This one is the most common.
Version IV - 2.41 edit. - US single and later on Singles Collection - The London Years.
Version 5 - late fade out - Post 2002 editions.

For CDs the time line is following.
Version I - 2.52 - never issued officially. Only on bootlegs.
Version II - 4.05, cold end. - German CD London 820 047-2 Early pressings from 1984-1986 (only CDs with matrix 820 047-2 01# and 820 047-2 01# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO). Also on Japanese London-Polydor KK P33L-25014 (1985), P25L-25031 (1989) and POCD-1911 (1995)
Version III - 3.44, fade out - on US Englands New Hitmakers CD 375 (1986) and US reissues of this title. Also on late pressings of German London CD 820 047-2 (post 1988 editions with matrices 820 047-2 02# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY BY PMDC) and all French London CDs 820 047-2. Later - on European CD Englands New Hitmakers 844 460-2 (1995).
Version IV - 2.41 edit. - Singles Collection - The London Years 1989 and 1995 editions (820 900-2 and 844 481-2 for Europe, 1218-2 and 1231-2 for the US). Apparently, on Singles 1963-1965 box also.
Version 5 - late fade out - SACD-DSD remasters from 2002.

Alright! So I did make a hasty conclusion, and I gladly stand to be corrected! Someone seemingly 'screwed up' already quite early in the beginning when letting that 'cold end' out - namely, that ending cannot be meant to sound like that; they are just jamming the song for some time to be faded out I guess. Someone just forget to do that in the final mix...

But how about those 80's 3:01 versions? They seem to be total anomaly in regards to the discussions so far. (My hypothesis at the moment is that they are print mistakes.)

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-15 12:41 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa

But how about those 80's 3:01 versions? They seem to be total anomaly in regards to the discussions so far.

- Doxa

I believe it is just a misprint. They would like to type 4.01 but put 3.01 .

Well, small misprint usually costs a lot of money...

And I'd like to quote [Musician April 1987 # 102 - Rolling Stones on CD: You Can Get What You Need - By Scott Isler]
________
Oldham goes along with this philosophy. "In England you never put your hit in albums, and here you had to." U.S. record companies viewed singles as promotional teasers for album sales. Oldham is vaguely aware of other discrepancies between U.S. and U.K. Stones recordings. "People would point out to me years later, 'Did you know that "Tell Me" is longer on the fade on the English version?' Quite honestly, no! 'Cause I was too busy. By the time I wasn't too busy, I really didn't care!"
_________
The whole paper is listed here [forums.stevehoffman.tv]

Here's my 2 cents worth:

I worked for Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab for a number of years, including 1984, the year they issued "The Rolling Stones: The Collection".

This LP boxed set was sonically wonderful, but was NOT a complete set of all Stones Decca/London recordings.

ABKCO controlled the rights and the masters and dictated which LP's and which LP versions MFSL was to include. Only original master tapes were used.

The first LP in the set, "The Rolling Stones", was a mono master of the first UK album. This master contained the long, cold-ending version of the song. Before I heard the MFSL pressing, I had never heard this long version before. I must admit, this longer, cold ending did sound a bit odd and unpolished, but I was glad to hear some new Stones music, even if it was just a few seconds more.

Part of the deal MFSL had with ABKCO was that in return for getting the rights to do this LP boxed set, MFSL would provide to ABKCO digital masters (on 3/4" U-Matic tape-standard at that time) of all the LP's included in the boxed set.

This is why the very first Rolling Stones CDs (issued in Europe and Japan, I believe) were the identical titles and versions found in the MFSL boxed set.
(Hot Rocks was a little different, but that's another story....).

Hence, the initial release of "The Rolling Stones" on CD contained the long version. Subsequent releases of their Decca/London catalog were the usual, unpredictable mish-mash/hodge-podge of music we have all gotten used to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-15 18:18 by thkbeercan.

Quote
Doxa
Thanks, Ironbelly! I never heard that short version.


- Doxa

Hi Doxa, If you still haven't heard it, I posted it on page 1.

also existing is an edited version released in 1964 on the french 7'EP "It's All Over Now"(Decca 457.039) - time : 3'15

thkbeercan
Thank you for your 2 cents.

By the way they re-make that first MFSL mastering of the old London 820 047-2 CD. It happen sometime in 1988 or 1989. At that time they change both the booklet of the CD (12 pages without red bar in upper left corner), CD design (modern logo) and glass master/matrix (02# and 03#). If you look for numbers it goes like this.

Glass master/matrix 820 047-2 01#

TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.32 | 2:23.08 | 32 | 10764
2 | 2:23.40 | 2:18.60 | 10765 | 21174
3 | 4:42.25 | 2:11.15 | 21175 | 31014
4 | 6:53.40 | 3:35.27 | 31015 | 47166
5 | 10:28.67 | 2:31.00 | 47167 | 58491
6 | 12:59.67 | 2:40.20 | 58492 | 70511
7 | 15:40.12 | 2:36.38 | 70512 | 82249
8 | 18:16.50 | 2:34.12 | 82250 | 93811
9 | 20:50.62 | 4:09.13 | 93812 | 112499
10 | 25:00.00 | 2:57.02 | 112500 | 125776
11 | 27:57.02 | 2:02.48 | 125777 | 134974
12 | 29:59.50 | 3:08.65 | 134975 | 149139
Peak level: 71.0%, 78.7%, 69.8%, 87.7%, 75.6%, 75.5%, 72.0%, 78.0%, 79.3%, 84.9%, 86.3%, 84.7%

Glass master/matrix 820 047-2 03#
TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.33 | 2:25.10 | 33 | 10917
2 | 2:25.43 | 2:21.35 | 10918 | 21527
3 | 4:47.03 | 2:14.02 | 21528 | 31579
4 | 7:01.05 | 3:38.15 | 31580 | 47944
5 | 10:39.20 | 2:34.55 | 47945 | 59549
6 | 13:14.00 | 2:44.28 | 59550 | 71877
7 | 15:58.28 | 2:39.20 | 71878 | 83822
8 | 18:37.48 | 2:38.22 | 83823 | 95694
9 | 21:15.70 | 3:52.40 | 95695 | 113134
10 | 25:08.35 | 2:59.35 | 113135 | 126594
11 | 28:07.70 | 2:06.43 | 126595 | 136087
12 | 30:14.38 | 3:10.00 | 136088 | 150337
Peak level: 77.8%, 66.3%, 78.7%, 83.5%, 83.4%, 71.6%, 85.3%, 88.3%, 85.7%, 79.6%, 79.6%, 72.6%

Technically, this is another mastering.

Quote
ironbelly
thkbeercan
Thank you for your 2 cents.

By the way they re-make that first MFSL mastering of the old London 820 047-2 CD. It happen sometime in 1988 or 1989. At that time they change both the booklet of the CD (12 pages without red bar in upper left corner), CD design (modern logo) and glass master/matrix (02# and 03#). If you look for numbers it goes like this.

Glass master/matrix 820 047-2 01#

TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.32 | 2:23.08 | 32 | 10764
2 | 2:23.40 | 2:18.60 | 10765 | 21174
3 | 4:42.25 | 2:11.15 | 21175 | 31014
4 | 6:53.40 | 3:35.27 | 31015 | 47166
5 | 10:28.67 | 2:31.00 | 47167 | 58491
6 | 12:59.67 | 2:40.20 | 58492 | 70511
7 | 15:40.12 | 2:36.38 | 70512 | 82249
8 | 18:16.50 | 2:34.12 | 82250 | 93811
9 | 20:50.62 | 4:09.13 | 93812 | 112499
10 | 25:00.00 | 2:57.02 | 112500 | 125776
11 | 27:57.02 | 2:02.48 | 125777 | 134974
12 | 29:59.50 | 3:08.65 | 134975 | 149139
Peak level: 71.0%, 78.7%, 69.8%, 87.7%, 75.6%, 75.5%, 72.0%, 78.0%, 79.3%, 84.9%, 86.3%, 84.7%

Glass master/matrix 820 047-2 03#
TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.33 | 2:25.10 | 33 | 10917
2 | 2:25.43 | 2:21.35 | 10918 | 21527
3 | 4:47.03 | 2:14.02 | 21528 | 31579
4 | 7:01.05 | 3:38.15 | 31580 | 47944
5 | 10:39.20 | 2:34.55 | 47945 | 59549
6 | 13:14.00 | 2:44.28 | 59550 | 71877
7 | 15:58.28 | 2:39.20 | 71878 | 83822
8 | 18:37.48 | 2:38.22 | 83823 | 95694
9 | 21:15.70 | 3:52.40 | 95695 | 113134
10 | 25:08.35 | 2:59.35 | 113135 | 126594
11 | 28:07.70 | 2:06.43 | 126595 | 136087
12 | 30:14.38 | 3:10.00 | 136088 | 150337
Peak level: 77.8%, 66.3%, 78.7%, 83.5%, 83.4%, 71.6%, 85.3%, 88.3%, 85.7%, 79.6%, 79.6%, 72.6%

Technically, this is another mastering.

He He..are we landing on Mars soon...

The 4.05 cold end version was on the Australian pressing of the first album ... That's all I knew ...
Wasn't mad on the shorter versions that turned up later on ... Hey where's the end of the song gone???



ROCKMAN

The SACD version is fine by me.

Quote
ironbelly
Doxa

There are two different recordings of Tell Me on the first LP.

Tell Me short version.

This one plays only 2,52 minutes and is a totally different take than the long one. Jaggers singing and Bills bass are clearly different. The rumour is that the producer by mistake used the wrong demo tape for the acetate. Tell Me is on B side of the LP and the matrix number is XARL6272-1A. For some reason they did not get it right on the second matrix either as number XARL6272-2A is with the short demo version as well

Tell Me long version.

The mistake of the demo version was discovered pretty fast and it was replaced with the correct recording of the song. This one is a different take and plays 4,06 minutes. The matrix was again changed and has XARL6272-3A. All higher numbers are with the long version.

(c) [www.stonesondecca.com]
A lot of pictures there too.

You found my page Ironbelly, thanks for that
These are the two versions that can be found on UK vinyls in the 60's.
There is a third vinyl version from the 60's as well and that can be found on the German original BLK 16 300-P. This one is a fading a way mix that runs about 3,46

Jan Richards

[www.stonesondecca.com]

OK, I've now heard the 'cold-ending' Tell Me. How odd! Very strange decision to include that edit. The U.S. single edit aside, - too short in length - the more common longer fade-out versions are superior to all others.

longer fade-out versions are superior to all others.....YEP!!!



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rockman
longer fade-out versions are superior to all others.....YEP!!!

Double Yep!


2 1 2 0

Quote
Jan Richards

Quote
ironbelly
Doxa

There are two different recordings of Tell Me on the first LP.

Tell Me short version.

This one plays only 2,52 minutes and is a totally different take than the long one. Jaggers singing and Bills bass are clearly different. The rumour is that the producer by mistake used the wrong demo tape for the acetate. Tell Me is on B side of the LP and the matrix number is XARL6272-1A. For some reason they did not get it right on the second matrix either as number XARL6272-2A is with the short demo version as well

Tell Me long version.

The mistake of the demo version was discovered pretty fast and it was replaced with the correct recording of the song. This one is a different take and plays 4,06 minutes. The matrix was again changed and has XARL6272-3A. All higher numbers are with the long version.

(c) [www.stonesondecca.com]
A lot of pictures there too.

You found my page Ironbelly, thanks for that
These are the two versions that can be found on UK vinyls in the 60's.
There is a third vinyl version from the 60's as well and that can be found on the German original BLK 16 300-P. This one is a fading a way mix that runs about 3,46

I did not found, I just quote a part of it. I knew about your wonderful page for ages. Did I use wrong sign for quotation? I was just curious that it was unknown to other guys

longer fade-out versions are superior to all others - NOPE! Those last seconds before abrupt cut off are priceless.

Here is a link to this take:

Quote
ironbelly
Doxa

There are two different recordings of Tell Me on the first LP.

Tell Me short version.

This one plays only 2,52 minutes and is a totally different take than the long one. Jaggers singing and Bills bass are clearly different. The rumour is that the producer by mistake used the wrong demo tape for the acetate. Tell Me is on B side of the LP and the matrix number is XARL6272-1A. For some reason they did not get it right on the second matrix either as number XARL6272-2A is with the short demo version as well

Tell Me long version.

The mistake of the demo version was discovered pretty fast and it was replaced with the correct recording of the song. This one is a different take and plays 4,06 minutes. The matrix was again changed and has XARL6272-3A. All higher numbers are with the long version.

(c) [www.stonesondecca.com]
A lot of pictures there too.

Quote
Doxa
Okay, out of curiosity I did some research, and I get to conclusion that the first 'cold end' edit of the song derives from the 1984 'digital reissues' series, which was the first CD version of it. (The series that for the very first time ever offered also BEGGARS BANQUET in a toilet cover). The handy criterion in judging if it is a 'cold end' version is that it is if it goes over four minutes.

BUT then I saw this:



This is a vinyl release from 1984 - released supposedly around the same as the CD version (having also that ugly "digitally remastered' sign in the cover as the CD). Here is the cover:



What is this version, which lasts 3:01?

Also, seemingly German vinyl release from 1982 (of THE ROLLING STONES) contains 3:01 version. Here is the cover:



What the hec is this version? Generally different variations of THE ROLLING STONES album contain either the fade out version (3:47) or the cold end one (4:05).

What makes this personally puzzling is that I do have that 1984 vinyl version but it contains the 'cold end' long version. And I used to have that 1982 version - or at least it had that odd Jagger around 1972 cover - but I recall it having the long version with fade out!

- Doxa

This 80-pressing silver label LP is also in my collection and I gave it a spinn on the turtable tonight. Plays 4,04 give'n take a few sec and it has a cut off ending. This is the same version as on the normal nonboxed 60's Deccas.
Wrong time indicated on the label.

Jan Richards

[www.stonesondecca.com]

I've always loved the long version with that unique cold ending. Fade-out is just not right in that song.

2:35 - but really more like 2:41 when you actually play it!

Oh - The Old "Tell Me" Story !
The first two runs of No. 1, Decca UK, held by mistake an alternate take, running 2.56, - these albums can be identified by the matrix on side 2, - who has to be XARL-6272-1A or 2A.
From 3A, - and for many runs, - a completely different take, running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly, - was used. This "normal" known version was later faded at 3.48, - and used for all later releases, both No.1 and compilations.
An edited version of this take, was used for the US-7"-release, labelled 2.44.
but actually running 2.59.
You can add, - or substract seconds, but basically it is two takes,
1 for the first two UK-runs (2.56) and another - The Normal One - which appears in different lengths and edits.

Quote
HenrikBB
Oh - The Old "Tell Me" Story !
The first two runs of No. 1, Decca UK, held by mistake an alternate take, running 2.56, - these albums can be identified by the matrix on side 2, - who has to be XARL-6272-1A or 2A.
From 3A, - and for many runs, - a completely different take, running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly, - was used. This "normal" known version was later faded at 3.48, - and used for all later releases, both No.1 and compilations.
An edited version of this take, was used for the US-7"-release, labelled 2.44.
but actually running 2.59.
You can add, - or substract seconds, but basically it is two takes,
1 for the first two UK-runs (2.56) and another - The Normal One - which appears in different lengths and edits.

Yet another version - running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly. I am shocked!!!!

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
HenrikBB
Oh - The Old "Tell Me" Story !
The first two runs of No. 1, Decca UK, held by mistake an alternate take, running 2.56, - these albums can be identified by the matrix on side 2, - who has to be XARL-6272-1A or 2A.
From 3A, - and for many runs, - a completely different take, running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly, - was used. This "normal" known version was later faded at 3.48, - and used for all later releases, both No.1 and compilations.
An edited version of this take, was used for the US-7"-release, labelled 2.44.
but actually running 2.59.
You can add, - or substract seconds, but basically it is two takes,
1 for the first two UK-runs (2.56) and another - The Normal One - which appears in different lengths and edits.

Yet another version - running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly. I am shocked!!!!

To keep my sanity, I presume that it was a spelling mistake...

Anyways, it seems like all the biggest mysteries in regards to different versions of "Tell Me" are now solved. I want to thank all the people who have contributed here. And JanRichards' site is a damn cool place.

And finally I heard the 1964 short 'demo' version! Thanks Lynd8 for the link.

- Doxa

I liked the demo version the most!

Doxa
Nobody left this place sane!!! And no mystery could be solved completely!

There is another version - from soundtrack of Charlie is My Darling. It could be found on bonus CD from Deluxe edition. It runs 2.19 and ends up in a mess and claps. That one is the best of them all.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
HenrikBB
Oh - The Old "Tell Me" Story !
The first two runs of No. 1, Decca UK, held by mistake an alternate take, running 2.56, - these albums can be identified by the matrix on side 2, - who has to be XARL-6272-1A or 2A.
From 3A, - and for many runs, - a completely different take, running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly, - was used. This "normal" known version was later faded at 3.48, - and used for all later releases, both No.1 and compilations.
An edited version of this take, was used for the US-7"-release, labelled 2.44.
but actually running 2.59.
You can add, - or substract seconds, but basically it is two takes,
1 for the first two UK-runs (2.56) and another - The Normal One - which appears in different lengths and edits.

Yet another version - running app. 3.08 - ending abrubtly. I am shocked!!!!

To keep my sanity, I presume that it was a spelling mistake...

Anyways, it seems like all the biggest mysteries in regards to different versions of "Tell Me" are now solved. I want to thank all the people who have contributed here. And JanRichards' site is a damn cool place.

And finally I heard the 1964 short 'demo' version! Thanks Lynd8 for the link.

- Doxa

Ha Ha ! - Can see I never followed this tread further on ! - Yes of course it was a spelling mistake ! It IS 4.08 - later to be faded at 3.48.
But anyway this Tell Me-story is always great to re-re-re-mention -
Keep on rolling !

..since nearly 50 years the best for me is the 4.06 cold ending from U.K first LP..
....the coda is quite mysterious..!!