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Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 15, 2013 18:55

I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 15, 2013 21:09

Paint It' Black is one of my all time favorite RS songs.


Paint It' Black was recorded in 1966, the following USA Tour brought scenes of riot, and even tear gas, the song is about darkness, frustration and funerals. the song is long time fully accepted and has become a classical rock song.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 15, 2013 21:20

Quote
howled


As far as I know, Keith comes up with a middle eastern riff and hits the studio with no real plans for a Sitar or the final rhythm and Mick's still doing the lyrics as the songs being thrashed out.

This is not a "Keith comes to the studio with a riff song" though. The melody, probably based on The Supremes song, is dependent on the rhythm.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 15, 2013 21:56

What I found is this;
"Keith supplied the music, and Mick the lyrics, Keith was not satisfied with the final take. Bill reproduced the melody by pedalling the organ, Charlie took up the beat and Brian joined by sitar. Jack Nitzsche filled the sound with 'gypsy style piano'

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: October 15, 2013 23:41

Quote
Spud
Quote
His Majesty
The pre Taylor stones was a different band. smiling smiley

I tend to think more in terms of "post Brian" .

For me the 68/69 Stones [essentially without Brian] is the second band before MT joined to augment it.

1968 is not essentially without Brian. At least, not the first half. There is too much contribution even if his not turning up etc continued and possibly got worse compared to the year before.

He's on as much if not more Beggars Banquet era tracks than Bill. winking smiley

Jumpin' Jack Flash/Child of the Moon single and the Beggars Banquet album is very much part of the Brisn Jones era.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-16 00:15 by His Majesty.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: October 15, 2013 23:44

Quote
24FPS
I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

thumbs up

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: October 15, 2013 23:49

As performed by the LSO. Transcendent, indeed.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-15 23:51 by latebloomer.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 16, 2013 00:20


Rolling Stones 100 Greatest Songs -- Rolling Stone Collectors Edition--Fanks Lozzie



Bill Wyman Rolling With The Stones

ROCKMAN

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 16, 2013 00:33

Yeah I know I thought of that too. It looks like the melody/opening riff is Brian doing that five note thing on sitar but with Keith doing that other thing at the end, that twist in d minor. That thing on d-minor is easy to do on guitar and sounds like its written on guitar. The opening melody sounds like it could be written on a more "static" instrument.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: October 16, 2013 00:34

It's interesting that much is made of the sitar, but the melody is being played by an electric and acoustic as well.

It's annoying, but also some what amusing when some Jones fans, the type that think he invented the stones and the world, think the opening guitar intro and some parts played by Keith on guitar is Brian on sitar. Sheesh.

You try to tell them it's a Keith guitar part and you become the target of much hatred and derision. A simple pointing out of their mistake is akin to joining Mick and Keith in supposedly intentionally mocking and down playing his contributions.

Yah cannie win.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 16, 2013 00:38

Quote
His Majesty
It's interesting that much is made of the sitar, but the melody is being played by an electric and acoustic as well.

It's annoying, but also some what amusing when some Jones fans, the type that think he invented the stones and the world, think the opening guitar intro and some parts played by Keith on guitar is Brian on sitar. Sheesh.

You try to tell them it's a Keith guitar part and you become the target of much hatred and derision. A simple pointing out of their mistake is akin to joining Mick and Keith in supposedly intentionally mocking and down playing his contributions.

Yah cannie win.

Yah cannie always try though!

You really whipped yourself up into a lather there HM.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: October 16, 2013 00:47

Quote
treaclefingers


Yah cannie always try though!

You really whipped yourself up into a lather there HM.

Lather? Great song. cool smiley

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 16, 2013 00:50

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
treaclefingers


Yah cannie always try though!

You really whipped yourself up into a lather there HM.

Lather? Great song. cool smiley

The visual I had was the Herb Alpert album, Whipped Cream and Other Delights.

That has to be a top ten all time album cover.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: October 16, 2013 04:58

Quote
24FPS
I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

Well, it certainly isn't rock and roll.

rock and roll
noun
1. a type of popular dance music originating in the 1950s, characterized by a heavy beat and simple melodies. Rock and roll was an amalgam of black rhythm and blues and white country music, usually based on a twelve-bar structure and an instrumentation of guitar, bass, and drums.

There ain't no blues in PIB, baby. No country either, far as I can tell. These are major reasons why I just can't too excited about it.

Drew

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 16, 2013 05:22

Quote
drewmaster
Quote
24FPS
I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

Well, it certainly isn't rock and roll.

rock and roll
noun
1. a type of popular dance music originating in the 1950s, characterized by a heavy beat and simple melodies. Rock and roll was an amalgam of black rhythm and blues and white country music, usually based on a twelve-bar structure and an instrumentation of guitar, bass, and drums.

There ain't no blues in PIB, baby. No country either, far as I can tell. These are major reasons why I just can't too excited about it.

Drew

You limit yourself to being excited by only rock and roll? The Stones themselves had varying interests in music, many of them not rock and roll at all. Brian could barely stand rock and roll. Charlie could have cared less. What set the Rolling Stones apart, and puts them up in heady almost Beatles territory, were their forays into eclecticism. She's A Rainbow. 2,000 Light Years From Home. Ruby Tuesday. These are songs that set them apart from the run of the mill rock and roll band.

I always shake my head when people try to stuff the Rolling Stones into a rock and roll box. They started out as a Blues and R&B band. Then they moved into Pop territory. Their hard core rock and roll years really only cover about 1969-1974. The rest of the time they were experimenting with reggae, country, psychedelia, disco. They even tried some electronic music on Bridges to Babylon. I laugh at the term 'Greatest Rock and Roll Band In The World'. Hell, they weren't even that at times. They survived and outlasted all the others. But rock and roll? That's just one color on the Rolling Stone's palette.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 16, 2013 08:23

Quote
24FPS
Quote
drewmaster
Quote
24FPS
I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

Well, it certainly isn't rock and roll.

rock and roll
noun
1. a type of popular dance music originating in the 1950s, characterized by a heavy beat and simple melodies. Rock and roll was an amalgam of black rhythm and blues and white country music, usually based on a twelve-bar structure and an instrumentation of guitar, bass, and drums.

There ain't no blues in PIB, baby. No country either, far as I can tell. These are major reasons why I just can't too excited about it.

Drew

You limit yourself to being excited by only rock and roll? The Stones themselves had varying interests in music, many of them not rock and roll at all. Brian could barely stand rock and roll. Charlie could have cared less. What set the Rolling Stones apart, and puts them up in heady almost Beatles territory, were their forays into eclecticism. She's A Rainbow. 2,000 Light Years From Home. Ruby Tuesday. These are songs that set them apart from the run of the mill rock and roll band.

I always shake my head when people try to stuff the Rolling Stones into a rock and roll box. They started out as a Blues and R&B band. Then they moved into Pop territory. Their hard core rock and roll years really only cover about 1969-1974. The rest of the time they were experimenting with reggae, country, psychedelia, disco. They even tried some electronic music on Bridges to Babylon. I laugh at the term 'Greatest Rock and Roll Band In The World'. Hell, they weren't even that at times. They survived and outlasted all the others. But rock and roll? That's just one color on the Rolling Stone's palette.

Yep, so why is people here still calling a song like 'Paint it Black' for Rock'n'Roll...it's pure POP....and it is important to sort things out...tongue sticking out smiley


..she wouldn't say
I said something wrong
Now I long..

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 16, 2013 09:42

Song Review by Richie Unterberger [-]

"Paint It Black" was one of the greatest Rolling Stones singles, reaching number one on both sides of the Atlantic in mid-1966. It also entirely broke free of the blues and R&B influences that had colored their 1965 smashes like "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" and "Get off of My Cloud." That in turn proved that Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were versatile, growing writers who could compete head-to-head with the best rock composers of the era, such as their chief rivals, the Beatles, of course. The principal riff of "Paint It Black" (almost all classic Rolling Stones songs are highlighted by a killer riff) was played on a sitar by Brian Jones and qualifies as perhaps the most effective use of the Indian instrument in a rock song. The exotic twang was a perfect match for the dark, mysterious Eastern-Indian melody, which sounded a little like a soundtrack to an Indian movie hijacked into hyperdrive. It was later reported, in fact, that "Paint It Black" had begun life in a much slower, conventional funky soul vein. When Bill Wyman began fooling around on the organ during the session doing a parody of their middle-aged original co-manager Eric Easton (who had been an organist), Charlie Watts joined in the fun and laid down an urgent double-time drum pattern, echoing the rhythm heard in some Middle Eastern dances. That rhythm survives into the final track, serving as an effective counterpoint to Jagger's moodily intoned lyric about, apparently, a dead girlfriend. The drums return to a standard hard rock rhythm in the explosive chorus, which has subtle melodic shifts of minor keys that serve as evidence of Jagger and Richards' underestimated skill at creating compelling pop hooks, in the mid-'60s at any rate. It's also a cool touch to have the stiff drumbeat briefly replaced by tambourine rattles at the beginning of the last verse, as Jagger lingers on an especially sorrowful line. Watts then kicks into a dynamite hard rock drum pattern to get the tempo going again right after Jagger bemoans how he couldn't imagine this tragedy happening to his lover. This has the double purpose of increasing the tension of the lyric and varying the mood of the song -- a mood that, as pop/rock songs go, must rate among the most mordant in all of rock. Also dig how the Stones ride out the fade with creepy background vocals humming the main riff as Jagger becomes particularly excitable, starting to sing-shout the lyrics and announcing that he wants to not just paint everything black, but see the sun blotted out from the sky -- surely one of the most despairing images in popular music. Eric Burdon & the Animals did a noted, if not particularly brilliant, rearrangement of "Paint It Black," heard in the Monterey Pop concert film, utilizing a drawn-out, almost avant-garde violin figure. Burdon surely was enamored of the song, as he did it yet again with War in the 1970s. There was also a similarly adventurous and aesthetically mixed reinterpretation of the song by the new wave group the Mo-Dettes in the early '80s.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 16, 2013 10:43

Quote
His Majesty
It's interesting that much is made of the sitar, but the melody is being played by an electric and acoustic as well.

It's annoying, but also some what amusing when some Jones fans, the type that think he invented the stones and the world, think the opening guitar intro and some parts played by Keith on guitar is Brian on sitar. Sheesh.

You try to tell them it's a Keith guitar part and you become the target of much hatred and derision. A simple pointing out of their mistake is akin to joining Mick and Keith in supposedly intentionally mocking and down playing his contributions.

Yah cannie win.

I know it's the guitar but the sitar plays the melody as well. It's the best guitar/sitar track ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-16 19:23 by Redhotcarpet.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 16, 2013 10:55

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
His Majesty
It's interesting that much is made of the sitar, but the melody is being played by an electric and acoustic as well.

It's annoying, but also some what amusing when some Jones fans, the type that think he invented the stones and the world, think the opening guitar intro and some parts played by Keith on guitar is Brian on sitar. Sheesh.

You try to tell them it's a Keith guitar part and you become the target of much hatred and derision. A simple pointing out of their mistake is akin to joining Mick and Keith in supposedly intentionally mocking and down playing his contributions.

Yah cannie win.

I know it's the guitar but the sitar plays the melody as well later. It's the best guitar/sitar track ever.

I have a couple of musical examples that maybe can put that statement in the shadow...:










..she wouldn't say
I said something wrong
Now I long..

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 16, 2013 11:06

No they dont. The guitar and sitar interplay on PIB is amazing, the sound is fantastic. Actually one of the greatest weaving moments. Jones made it rock and Richards made his guitar sound more like "the Jew in him" (his maternal grandfather?).

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 16, 2013 11:08

Quote
Redhotcarpet
No they dont. The guitar and sitar interplay on PIB is amazing, the sound is fantastic. Actually one of the greatest weaving moments. Jones made it rock and Richards made his guitar sound more like "the Jew in him" (his maternal grandfather?).

Let's drink to the hardworking people then....smileys with beer


..she wouldn't say
I said something wrong
Now I long..

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 16, 2013 11:42

Jack Nitzsche filled the sound in by playing what he claimed was a 'gypsy-style piano'.The Stones and Jack Nizsche contributed in this great track with different musical influences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-16 13:20 by runaway.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: October 16, 2013 12:04

Great to see more than 100 comments on this thread. Clearly the mark of a great Stones' song. thumbs up



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-16 12:04 by Silver Dagger.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: October 16, 2013 14:54

Quote
Come On
Quote
24FPS
Quote
drewmaster
Quote
24FPS
I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

Well, it certainly isn't rock and roll.

rock and roll
noun
1. a type of popular dance music originating in the 1950s, characterized by a heavy beat and simple melodies. Rock and roll was an amalgam of black rhythm and blues and white country music, usually based on a twelve-bar structure and an instrumentation of guitar, bass, and drums.

There ain't no blues in PIB, baby. No country either, far as I can tell. These are major reasons why I just can't too excited about it.

Drew

You limit yourself to being excited by only rock and roll? The Stones themselves had varying interests in music, many of them not rock and roll at all. Brian could barely stand rock and roll. Charlie could have cared less. What set the Rolling Stones apart, and puts them up in heady almost Beatles territory, were their forays into eclecticism. She's A Rainbow. 2,000 Light Years From Home. Ruby Tuesday. These are songs that set them apart from the run of the mill rock and roll band.

I always shake my head when people try to stuff the Rolling Stones into a rock and roll box. They started out as a Blues and R&B band. Then they moved into Pop territory. Their hard core rock and roll years really only cover about 1969-1974. The rest of the time they were experimenting with reggae, country, psychedelia, disco. They even tried some electronic music on Bridges to Babylon. I laugh at the term 'Greatest Rock and Roll Band In The World'. Hell, they weren't even that at times. They survived and outlasted all the others. But rock and roll? That's just one color on the Rolling Stone's palette.

Yep, so why is people here still calling a song like 'Paint it Black' for Rock'n'Roll...it's pure POP....and it is important to sort things out...tongue sticking out smiley

Spot on, Come On. 24FPS, you make some valid points! However, I would argue that most of the Stones best work has *some* connection with the blues and/or country music. They are, after all, rooted in the blues / early rock and roll, and their genius has been in transmuting that music in all kinds of brilliant and wonderful ways. When they stray too far (as, for me, they do in PIB, which has no connection to those roots musically, although perhaps lyrically) is when I lose the plot.

Also, just wanted to note that we don't choose the music that we appreciate, it chooses us. Certainly I would very much like it if PIB made me want to want to shake my tail feathers, but alas, it does not. That Turkish-Carpathian-Bukovinian psychedelic-polka beat (to quote from Silver Dagger's excellent post) just does not get me moving.

Drew

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 16, 2013 18:41

Quote
drewmaster
Quote
Come On
Quote
24FPS
Quote
drewmaster
Quote
24FPS
I think Paint It, Black transcends rock and roll. Which is a good thing.

Well, it certainly isn't rock and roll.

rock and roll
noun
1. a type of popular dance music originating in the 1950s, characterized by a heavy beat and simple melodies. Rock and roll was an amalgam of black rhythm and blues and white country music, usually based on a twelve-bar structure and an instrumentation of guitar, bass, and drums.

There ain't no blues in PIB, baby. No country either, far as I can tell. These are major reasons why I just can't too excited about it.

Drew

You limit yourself to being excited by only rock and roll? The Stones themselves had varying interests in music, many of them not rock and roll at all. Brian could barely stand rock and roll. Charlie could have cared less. What set the Rolling Stones apart, and puts them up in heady almost Beatles territory, were their forays into eclecticism. She's A Rainbow. 2,000 Light Years From Home. Ruby Tuesday. These are songs that set them apart from the run of the mill rock and roll band.

I always shake my head when people try to stuff the Rolling Stones into a rock and roll box. They started out as a Blues and R&B band. Then they moved into Pop territory. Their hard core rock and roll years really only cover about 1969-1974. The rest of the time they were experimenting with reggae, country, psychedelia, disco. They even tried some electronic music on Bridges to Babylon. I laugh at the term 'Greatest Rock and Roll Band In The World'. Hell, they weren't even that at times. They survived and outlasted all the others. But rock and roll? That's just one color on the Rolling Stone's palette.

Yep, so why is people here still calling a song like 'Paint it Black' for Rock'n'Roll...it's pure POP....and it is important to sort things out...tongue sticking out smiley

Spot on, Come On. 24FPS, you make some valid points! However, I would argue that most of the Stones best work has *some* connection with the blues and/or country music. They are, after all, rooted in the blues / early rock and roll, and their genius has been in transmuting that music in all kinds of brilliant and wonderful ways. When they stray too far (as, for me, they do in PIB, which has no connection to those roots musically, although perhaps lyrically) is when I lose the plot.

Also, just wanted to note that we don't choose the music that we appreciate, it chooses us. Certainly I would very much like it if PIB made me want to want to shake my tail feathers, but alas, it does not. That Turkish-Carpathian-Bukovinian psychedelic-polka beat (to quote from Silver Dagger's excellent post) just does not get me moving.

Drew
smileys with beer

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 16, 2013 19:31

"Their hardcore "Rock and Roll" years only cover about 1969-1974.

You overlooked at least one album; December's Children 1966-style Blues Rock-Garage Rock-Pop Rock.

I myself have no problem with experimenting with reggae, country, psychedelia, disco, soul, funk, but I do think that some Pop songs do have patterns of Rock as well in " Paint It, Black.




Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: May 15, 2016 04:39

Happy belated 50th birthday to Paint it Black...that cool, dark, driving, primordial song that is like no other on the planet. I sure do love The Rolling Stones.

Read More: 50 Years Ago: The Rolling Stones Release ‘Paint It, Black’ [ultimateclassicrock.com]

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: buttons67 ()
Date: May 15, 2016 22:13

the ready steady go version of paint it black is one of the greatest songs of all time, a real classic.

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: May 15, 2016 23:25

Quote
latebloomer
Happy belated 50th birthday to Paint it Black...that cool, dark, driving, primordial song that is like no other on the planet. I sure do love The Rolling Stones.

Read More: 50 Years Ago: The Rolling Stones Release ‘Paint It, Black’ [ultimateclassicrock.com]

Yes! thumbs up

Re: Track Talk: Paint It Black
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: June 5, 2016 11:37

this is a great thread.
i'd love to see the stones take another crack at doing this justice live. i think they can do it, but i'm not happy with any of the arrangements so far.

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