Tell Me :
Talk
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 09:15 by Title5Take1.
Spot-on comments.
farlowe released Yesterday's Papers.
Methinks by (effectively) replacing Brian with his multifacted musical talent with taylor and his singulaurly focused specialist experise (back to the blues but with fluid sonic wizadry) is how we got The Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World.
But thanks so much to Brian for the interesting stuff in the swinging years.
There is nothing wrong with "I Am Waiting", but I guess the reason I have never rated the song so high is that I tend to listen it in its context (AFTERMATH), and somehow it has been left in the shade of "Out of Time". I think there is a lot similarity in the songs, and after "Out of Time" sounds a bit repitative, like 'aah, this idea has been used already with better results'. Maybe it is the context - B-side of UK AFTERMATH - why I get the feeling that the songs altogether start to sound a bit running of ideas ("Take It Or Leave It", "Think", "What to Do".) But yeah, "I Am Waiting" is a really nice song, even though I wouldn't quite rate it among the highlights in the album (which just tells about the quality of the album).
"High And Dry" is a nice addition to the rich musical vocabulary of the album - suits there well, such another rootsie songs such as "Doncha Bother Me" and "Flight 505" - but it sounds to me rather filler-like, and too much like 'a pop band, or a school band, tries to play country&western". But it has a nice boyish vibe in it.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 10:57 by Doxa.
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I Am Waiting is a beautiful song: beautifully written, arranged and performed.
High And Dry surely is a real folk/country tune.
Both songs have hooks and great choruses, but I agree with Doxa that they come across a bit "boy-ish". Not bad for some 22 year olds, though.
I am Waiting has a little caribbean sound to it. As noted by Silver Dagger, High And Dry is a little "Appalachian-sounding".
I agree here. Like noted in recent AFTERMATH thread, there is still direct references to their early 'rhythm and blues' essence, the things we don't any longer hear in BETWEEN AND THE BUTTONS and SATANIC MAJESTIES ("Doncha Bother Me", the jam of "Goin' Home", "Flight 505"). The folkie "High And Dry" actually is much closer to BEGGARS BANQUET in spirit than to BUTTONS or MAJESTIC. Is about the only clearly 'bluesy' thing in BUTTONS the bo-diddley-rhythmn guitar of "Please Go Home"?
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 12:29 by Doxa.
Miss Amanda Jones at least has some of that r&b/Berry feel.
True.
- Doxa
Dear DP,
I didn't say that Buttons was more real than A'math with respect to folk and blues, I said that Beggars was.
I said that Beggars evolved via Buttons and Satanics.
British Buttons has MAJ and Connection and the brilliant Back Street Girl, (Parisienne). And it has Please Go Home. Yeah Baby, we're SWINGING!
It's not personal DP.
I agree about the hooks and choruses, but there are some iffy moments on A'math UK. What To Do - the backing vocals of Bow Bow Bow! Cringe.
There were great tracks for the choosing - e.g.Ride On Baby, Sitting on a Proverbial Fence
We can argue the toss as to which would be or is a better A'math. But thing is they'd started to get the album-writing art/act together.
From 1965 to 1968 J&R had mastered the album/song-writing art. 3 years. Ages 22 to 25.
Beatles likewise. 1963 to 1966. macca and Lennon aged 23-26. And they had a Harrison and Starky to help.
hats off to Jagger Richards. Big shame they wouldn't accommodate Jones - but he got big look-in soundwise along the way. But three was a crowd on the Jagger/Richards cloud
Hmmm ... this was an Out Of Time thread and not an A'math or Beatles versus Stones one!
To make amends - i don't have the albums to hand - is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis? And does anyone else agree that it's Keith on bass on that (those) version(s)/ Bass is noticeably different between Amath and Flowers version. Possibly he started his 'career' on bass here?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:01 by Deluxtone.
Not taken as personal, not at all
It was the words "via Buttons" that lead me to the conclusion that you thought Buttons (and Satanic) was a natural step to more "real" folk and blues.
To me, Buttons was a sidestep into "Kinks-land", much in line with the times in London, of course.
However, there are stuff on Buttons (All Sold Out, Connection and Miss Amanda Jones) and Satanic (Citadel and parts of 2000 Man) that hinted on what to come prior to (Child Of The Moon) and on BB, but even more on its successor, Let It Bleed - when they went down the rock route.
is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis?
No, the Flowers-version is an edited (shorter) version of the OOT Aftermath-version.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:18 by DandelionPowderman.
Is it also mixed differently? I get to know "Out of Time" via AFTERMATH, and when I finally got FLOWERS (needed "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On Baby", of course), to my ears that version sounded rather odd (same with "Mother's Little Helper"). More bass and somehow 'muddy' whereas the AFTERMATH 'originals' were so airy and crystal clear (but a bit thinner, too). I ended up skipping them, since I preferred the sonically better ones (so I haven't listen them much - can't even recall when I have listened FLOWERS last time...)
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:33 by Doxa.
The impression I got was that Flowers was re-mastered. Way heavier in volum.
No comparison, imo. Even though the original version may be way too long, that's the version I grew up with. The strings on Metamorphosis I can't take...
A funny thing about the original (if memory serves): In the middle of the song, and during the "climax", one or more of Mick's voices disappear in the chorus - and everything become tamer and less energetic. Surely a mixing/producing error?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:44 by DandelionPowderman.
There is a gap in the marimba version where Mick sings "You are all left out" and then a big grand canyon gap and then "Out of there without a doubt" which sounds odd with this big gap in the vocal phrasing.
The strings version has "Yes you are left out, yes, you are I said you're left out of there without a doubt.
I prefer Mick's vocals on the strings version and the marimba doesn't do much for me as an instrument.
It's just a motown/Spector like pop song (with more cutting lyrics) so why not make it sound like a pop song, so I prefer the strings version which apparently is just Mick and no other Stones.
Marimba version.
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Strings version.
I said baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Yes you are left out, yes, you are
I said you're left out of there without a doubt
'cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 15:30 by howled.
For earthy folk - I should have mentioned She Smiled Sweetly.
Yup, some of it is Kinksybut there are some 'darker' sounds developing.
And the 'signature' chord-riffing of which, yes, Citadel is another key example.
From there it was only a short step to SFM, JJF, HTW, Rambler, Brown Sugar (oh, hold on that's Mick, (is it?)), Rocks Off, TD, Happy ....etc..... One Last Shot.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 15:41 by Deluxtone.
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Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: October 1, 2013 01:15
I love the "pop" Rolling Stones. The ear candy!
Actually, the "Chris Farlowe" "Bells" version sung by Mick Jagger is totally trippy if you ask me. It's "orgasmic" in a way and that beautiful female backing vocal is a really high moment for female backing vocals in a Rolling Stones song. Dare I say it, although this song is in a different world than Gimme Shelter they are somewhat comparable. There is some real charm and strength in that backing vocal.
That's a song that most of us probably discovered when Metamorphosis came out in 1975. Being the information Stone Age, I was clueless about the story behind that song for decades and decades!
Actually, the "Chris Farlowe" "Bells" version sung by Mick Jagger is totally trippy if you ask me. It's "orgasmic" in a way and that beautiful female backing vocal is a really high moment for female backing vocals in a Rolling Stones song. Dare I say it, although this song is in a different world than Gimme Shelter they are somewhat comparable. There is some real charm and strength in that backing vocal.
That's a song that most of us probably discovered when Metamorphosis came out in 1975. Being the information Stone Age, I was clueless about the story behind that song for decades and decades!
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
stonesrule
()
Date: October 1, 2013 01:52
It was first released in 1966. Certainly set them apart from The Beatles.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 1, 2013 02:33
Assuming Brian came up with the marimba part motif he should, in an ideal world, have got some kind of reward for it's appropriation on Farlowe's version. Same with vibraphone motif on Yesterday's Papers which was used on a single after.
This is where song writing/arrangment credits can get a bit silly.
This is where song writing/arrangment credits can get a bit silly.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: October 1, 2013 02:42
A good solid, essential "mid-level" Stones track--that is, not one of their greatest hits, but nonetheless one I'm always happy to hear.
The one thing I would change about it, though, is the backing track. I've always wondered what it would have sounded like with a more basic arrangement, say, fuzz tone guitar or even a standard distorted sounding guitar droning away in the background instead of the strings. That string motif in between the verses somehow seems more an ALO influence. I think Brian should have played a harpsichord melody in those sections instead, then the fuzz tone or distorted guitars could take over for the verses.
The string arrangement, I'm afraid, just strands the track as a mere pop experiment of its time. As proof of this, Chris Farlowe had a UK #1 with his version in 1966, but when The Stones themselves finally released it as a single in 1975 (basically the Chris Farlowe version but with Mick singing lead--the demo version he recorded for Farlowe in April 1966), it failed to make a dent (UK #45). Even the 1975 reissue of the Chris Farlowe version only made it to #44 on the UK singles charts. The pop experiments of 1966 were long over by then.
The one thing I would change about it, though, is the backing track. I've always wondered what it would have sounded like with a more basic arrangement, say, fuzz tone guitar or even a standard distorted sounding guitar droning away in the background instead of the strings. That string motif in between the verses somehow seems more an ALO influence. I think Brian should have played a harpsichord melody in those sections instead, then the fuzz tone or distorted guitars could take over for the verses.
The string arrangement, I'm afraid, just strands the track as a mere pop experiment of its time. As proof of this, Chris Farlowe had a UK #1 with his version in 1966, but when The Stones themselves finally released it as a single in 1975 (basically the Chris Farlowe version but with Mick singing lead--the demo version he recorded for Farlowe in April 1966), it failed to make a dent (UK #45). Even the 1975 reissue of the Chris Farlowe version only made it to #44 on the UK singles charts. The pop experiments of 1966 were long over by then.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 1, 2013 03:23
There are no strings on the stones version.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: October 1, 2013 03:49
I keep confusing it with the Metamorphosis version--whenever I recall it, I always hear a couple of cellos for some reason.
The backing track as The Stones did it still bothers me, with the marimba and the fancy flourishes on acoustic guitar--probably the reason it never became the concert staple it could have been. Did they even ever attempt it live? I would rather it had been given a more simplified garage-type of arrangement--just guitars, electric only, fuzz tone preferably, organ optional.
A version like Farlowe's could only have been a hit in 1966.
The backing track as The Stones did it still bothers me, with the marimba and the fancy flourishes on acoustic guitar--probably the reason it never became the concert staple it could have been. Did they even ever attempt it live? I would rather it had been given a more simplified garage-type of arrangement--just guitars, electric only, fuzz tone preferably, organ optional.
A version like Farlowe's could only have been a hit in 1966.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
StonesCat
()
Date: October 1, 2013 03:59
Great song, nobody here in the States knows who Marlowe is/was, so we don't have that distraction. As somebody posted earlier, Coming Home was my first exposure to it. One of the songs that made me go full on into discovering the Stones. Songs like this and Blue Turns to Grey are part of a short period where Mick was really in a groove on the slower songs.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
slew
()
Date: October 1, 2013 05:45
This is one of my favorite album cuts from the 60's love it!
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: October 1, 2013 09:00
Quote
ryanpow
It's a classic. I also like The Ramones' cover.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 09:15 by Title5Take1.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: October 1, 2013 09:42
Quote
His Majesty
Assuming Brian came up with the marimba part motif he should, in an ideal world, have got some kind of reward for it's appropriation on Farlowe's version. Same with vibraphone motif on Yesterday's Papers which was used on a single after.
This is where song writing/arrangment credits can get a bit silly.
Spot-on comments.
farlowe released Yesterday's Papers.
Methinks by (effectively) replacing Brian with his multifacted musical talent with taylor and his singulaurly focused specialist experise (back to the blues but with fluid sonic wizadry) is how we got The Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World.
But thanks so much to Brian for the interesting stuff in the swinging years.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 1, 2013 10:21
The best cut in B-side of AFTERMATH. In my book it belongs to the highlight section of that album (with "Mother's Little Helper", "Lady Jane" and "Under My Thumb"), and it is key songs to give the album its characteristic flavor. Yes, definitively it needs to be that 5:15 version, to have enough space and time to breath to tell its musical story.
It is a pop song indeed, maybe their 'poppest' ever, but I think it derives more from the pop section of those black soul girl group of the 60's, such as The Supremes, with their catchy melodies and their simple but strong, emphasized multi-vocal choruses. The Beatles, surely used that source in their vocal delivery, but I think The Stones here, once again, hit more to the mark, as far as interpreting American black music genres goes. They also transform the genre beautifully and originally to suit to their own style, having that nasty, a bit aggressive edge typical to them (in lyrics most obviously but as well in that intentionally annoying "tiii-ii-me' hook in the chorus).
Brian's touch in coloring the musical landscape is once again adding the magic to Jagger/Richard brain child.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 10:22 by Doxa.
It is a pop song indeed, maybe their 'poppest' ever, but I think it derives more from the pop section of those black soul girl group of the 60's, such as The Supremes, with their catchy melodies and their simple but strong, emphasized multi-vocal choruses. The Beatles, surely used that source in their vocal delivery, but I think The Stones here, once again, hit more to the mark, as far as interpreting American black music genres goes. They also transform the genre beautifully and originally to suit to their own style, having that nasty, a bit aggressive edge typical to them (in lyrics most obviously but as well in that intentionally annoying "tiii-ii-me' hook in the chorus).
Brian's touch in coloring the musical landscape is once again adding the magic to Jagger/Richard brain child.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 10:22 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
emotionalbarbecue
()
Date: October 1, 2013 10:30
99 out of 100 this song is cheesy.
Stones did the one and only proper version. Fantastic. Their version never gets old.
Stones did the one and only proper version. Fantastic. Their version never gets old.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 1, 2013 10:30
<In my book it belongs to the highlight section of that album (with "Mother's Little Helper", "Lady Jane" and "Under My Thumb)>
All great songs, imo, OOT as well.
But what about I Am Waiting and High And Dry? Probably my two favourites on the album.
All great songs, imo, OOT as well.
But what about I Am Waiting and High And Dry? Probably my two favourites on the album.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 1, 2013 10:50
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<In my book it belongs to the highlight section of that album (with "Mother's Little Helper", "Lady Jane" and "Under My Thumb)>
All great songs, imo, OOT as well.
But what about I Am Waiting and High And Dry? Probably my two favourites on the album.
There is nothing wrong with "I Am Waiting", but I guess the reason I have never rated the song so high is that I tend to listen it in its context (AFTERMATH), and somehow it has been left in the shade of "Out of Time". I think there is a lot similarity in the songs, and after "Out of Time" sounds a bit repitative, like 'aah, this idea has been used already with better results'. Maybe it is the context - B-side of UK AFTERMATH - why I get the feeling that the songs altogether start to sound a bit running of ideas ("Take It Or Leave It", "Think", "What to Do".) But yeah, "I Am Waiting" is a really nice song, even though I wouldn't quite rate it among the highlights in the album (which just tells about the quality of the album).
"High And Dry" is a nice addition to the rich musical vocabulary of the album - suits there well, such another rootsie songs such as "Doncha Bother Me" and "Flight 505" - but it sounds to me rather filler-like, and too much like 'a pop band, or a school band, tries to play country&western". But it has a nice boyish vibe in it.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 10:57 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: October 1, 2013 11:10
What is naff about I am Waiting is in the vocal part
where Mick sings 'I am waiting' and then someone chimes in 'Ting'!
Aftermath UK is where the Stones try and go 'arty' - and for me it doesn't 'wash'.
They can't fool me that they are an arty, sophoisticated group, no matter how many interesting instruments they add.
Prefer Raunch and guts tempered with some honest folk and blues.
Bring on Beggars - via Buttons and Satanics.
But Aftermath an essential (though occasionally embarassing imo) starting point.
where Mick sings 'I am waiting' and then someone chimes in 'Ting'!
Aftermath UK is where the Stones try and go 'arty' - and for me it doesn't 'wash'.
They can't fool me that they are an arty, sophoisticated group, no matter how many interesting instruments they add.
Prefer Raunch and guts tempered with some honest folk and blues.
Bring on Beggars - via Buttons and Satanics.
But Aftermath an essential (though occasionally embarassing imo) starting point.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 1, 2013 12:04
Quote
Deluxtone
What is naff about I am Waiting is in the vocal part
where Mick sings 'I am waiting' and then someone chimes in 'Ting'!
Aftermath UK is where the Stones try and go 'arty' - and for me it doesn't 'wash'.
They can't fool me that they are an arty, sophoisticated group, no matter how many interesting instruments they add.
Prefer Raunch and guts tempered with some honest folk and blues.
Bring on Beggars - via Buttons and Satanics.
But Aftermath an essential (though occasionally embarassing imo) starting point.
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I Am Waiting is a beautiful song: beautifully written, arranged and performed.
High And Dry surely is a real folk/country tune.
Both songs have hooks and great choruses, but I agree with Doxa that they come across a bit "boy-ish". Not bad for some 22 year olds, though.
I am Waiting has a little caribbean sound to it. As noted by Silver Dagger, High And Dry is a little "Appalachian-sounding".
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 1, 2013 12:24
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I agree here. Like noted in recent AFTERMATH thread, there is still direct references to their early 'rhythm and blues' essence, the things we don't any longer hear in BETWEEN AND THE BUTTONS and SATANIC MAJESTIES ("Doncha Bother Me", the jam of "Goin' Home", "Flight 505"). The folkie "High And Dry" actually is much closer to BEGGARS BANQUET in spirit than to BUTTONS or MAJESTIC. Is about the only clearly 'bluesy' thing in BUTTONS the bo-diddley-rhythmn guitar of "Please Go Home"?
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 12:29 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 1, 2013 12:47
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I agree here. Like noted in recent AFTERMATH thread, there is still direct references to their early 'rhythm and blues' essence, the things we don't any longer hear in BETWEEN AND THE BUTTONS and SATANIC MAJESTIES ("Doncha Bother Me", the jam of "Goin' Home", "Flight 505"). The folkie "High And Dry" actually is much closer to BEGGARS BANQUET in spirit than to BUTTONS or MAJESTIC. Is about the only clearly 'bluesy' thing in BUTTONS the bo-diddley-rhythmn guitar of "Please Go Home"?
- Doxa
Miss Amanda Jones at least has some of that r&b/Berry feel.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 1, 2013 13:01
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I agree here. Like noted in recent AFTERMATH thread, there is still direct references to their early 'rhythm and blues' essence, the things we don't any longer hear in BETWEEN AND THE BUTTONS and SATANIC MAJESTIES ("Doncha Bother Me", the jam of "Goin' Home", "Flight 505"). The folkie "High And Dry" actually is much closer to BEGGARS BANQUET in spirit than to BUTTONS or MAJESTIC. Is about the only clearly 'bluesy' thing in BUTTONS the bo-diddley-rhythmn guitar of "Please Go Home"?
- Doxa
Miss Amanda Jones at least has some of that r&b/Berry feel.
True.
- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: October 1, 2013 13:54
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Deluxtone
What is naff about I am Waiting is in the vocal part
where Mick sings 'I am waiting' and then someone chimes in 'Ting'!
Aftermath UK is where the Stones try and go 'arty' - and for me it doesn't 'wash'.
They can't fool me that they are an arty, sophoisticated group, no matter how many interesting instruments they add.
Prefer Raunch and guts tempered with some honest folk and blues.
Bring on Beggars - via Buttons and Satanics.
But Aftermath an essential (though occasionally embarassing imo) starting point.
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I Am Waiting is a beautiful song: beautifully written, arranged and performed.
High And Dry surely is a real folk/country tune.
Both songs have hooks and great choruses, but I agree with Doxa that they come across a bit "boy-ish". Not bad for some 22 year olds, though.
I am Waiting has a little caribbean sound to it. As noted by Silver Dagger, High And Dry is a little "Appalachian-sounding".
Dear DP,
I didn't say that Buttons was more real than A'math with respect to folk and blues, I said that Beggars was.
I said that Beggars evolved via Buttons and Satanics.
British Buttons has MAJ and Connection and the brilliant Back Street Girl, (Parisienne). And it has Please Go Home. Yeah Baby, we're SWINGING!
It's not personal DP.
I agree about the hooks and choruses, but there are some iffy moments on A'math UK. What To Do - the backing vocals of Bow Bow Bow! Cringe.
There were great tracks for the choosing - e.g.Ride On Baby, Sitting on a Proverbial Fence
We can argue the toss as to which would be or is a better A'math. But thing is they'd started to get the album-writing art/act together.
From 1965 to 1968 J&R had mastered the album/song-writing art. 3 years. Ages 22 to 25.
Beatles likewise. 1963 to 1966. macca and Lennon aged 23-26. And they had a Harrison and Starky to help.
hats off to Jagger Richards. Big shame they wouldn't accommodate Jones - but he got big look-in soundwise along the way. But three was a crowd on the Jagger/Richards cloud
Hmmm ... this was an Out Of Time thread and not an A'math or Beatles versus Stones one!
To make amends - i don't have the albums to hand - is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis? And does anyone else agree that it's Keith on bass on that (those) version(s)/ Bass is noticeably different between Amath and Flowers version. Possibly he started his 'career' on bass here?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:01 by Deluxtone.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 1, 2013 14:17
Quote
DeluxtoneQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Deluxtone
What is naff about I am Waiting is in the vocal part
where Mick sings 'I am waiting' and then someone chimes in 'Ting'!
Aftermath UK is where the Stones try and go 'arty' - and for me it doesn't 'wash'.
They can't fool me that they are an arty, sophoisticated group, no matter how many interesting instruments they add.
Prefer Raunch and guts tempered with some honest folk and blues.
Bring on Beggars - via Buttons and Satanics.
But Aftermath an essential (though occasionally embarassing imo) starting point.
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I Am Waiting is a beautiful song: beautifully written, arranged and performed.
High And Dry surely is a real folk/country tune.
Both songs have hooks and great choruses, but I agree with Doxa that they come across a bit "boy-ish". Not bad for some 22 year olds, though.
I am Waiting has a little caribbean sound to it. As noted by Silver Dagger, High And Dry is a little "Appalachian-sounding".
Dear DP,
I didn't say that Buttons was more real than A'math with respect to folk and blues, I said that Beggars was.
I said that Beggars evolved via Buttons and Satanics.
British Buttons has MAJ and Connection and the brilliant Back Street Girl, (Parisienne). And it has Please Go Home. Yeah Baby, we're SWINGING!
It's not personal DP.
I agree about the hooks and choruses, but there are some iffy moments on A'math UK. What To Do - the backing vocals of Bow Bow Bow! Cringe.
There were great tracks for the choosing - e.g.Ride On Baby, Sitting on a Proverbial Fence
We can argue the toss as to which would be or is a better A'math. But thing is they'd started to get the album-writing art/act together.
From 1965 to 1968 J&R had mastered the album/song-writing art. 3 years. Ages 22 to 25.
Beatles likewise. 1963 to 1966. macca and Lennon aged 23-26. And they had a Harrison and Starky to help.
hats off to Jagger Richards. Big shame they wouldn't accommodate Jones - but he got big look-in soundwise along the way. But three was a crowd on the Jagger/Richards cloud
Hmmm ... this was an Out Of Time thread and not an A'math or Beatles versus Stones one!
To make amends - i don't have the albums to hand - is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis? And does anyone else agree that it's Keith on bass on that (those) version(s)/ Bass is noticeably different between Amath and Flowers version. Possibly he started his 'career' on bass here?
Not taken as personal, not at all
It was the words "via Buttons" that lead me to the conclusion that you thought Buttons (and Satanic) was a natural step to more "real" folk and blues.
To me, Buttons was a sidestep into "Kinks-land", much in line with the times in London, of course.
However, there are stuff on Buttons (All Sold Out, Connection and Miss Amanda Jones) and Satanic (Citadel and parts of 2000 Man) that hinted on what to come prior to (Child Of The Moon) and on BB, but even more on its successor, Let It Bleed - when they went down the rock route.
is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis?
No, the Flowers-version is an edited (shorter) version of the OOT Aftermath-version.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:18 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 1, 2013 14:30
Quote
DandelionPowderman
No, the Flowers-version is an edited (shorter) version of the OOT Aftermath-version.
Is it also mixed differently? I get to know "Out of Time" via AFTERMATH, and when I finally got FLOWERS (needed "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On Baby", of course), to my ears that version sounded rather odd (same with "Mother's Little Helper"). More bass and somehow 'muddy' whereas the AFTERMATH 'originals' were so airy and crystal clear (but a bit thinner, too). I ended up skipping them, since I preferred the sonically better ones (so I haven't listen them much - can't even recall when I have listened FLOWERS last time...)
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:33 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 1, 2013 14:32
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
No, the Flowers-version is an edited (shorter) version of the OOT Aftermath-version.
Is it also mixed differently? I get to know "Out of Time" via AFTERMATH, and when I finally got FLOWERS (needed "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On Baby", of course), to my ears that version sounded rather odd (same with "Mother's Little Helper"). More bass and somehow 'muddy' whereas the AFTERMATH 'originals' were so airy and crystal clear. I ended up skipping them, since I preferred the sonically better ones (so I haven't listen them much - can't even recall when I have listened FLOWERS last time...)
- Doxa
The impression I got was that Flowers was re-mastered. Way heavier in volum.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 1, 2013 14:38
Anyway, I would say that the 'original' UK AFTERMATH version of "Out of Time" has aged best, compared both to 'heavier' FLOWERS version, and the Farlowe/METAMOPRPHOSIS version. There is still that charm in those dedicated little nuances, and the amount of fresh open air it has.
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 1, 2013 14:43
Quote
Doxa
Anyway, I would say that the 'original' UK AFTERMATH version of "Out of Time" has aged best, compared both to 'heavier' FLOWERS version, and the Farlowe/METAMOPRPHOSIS version. There is still that charm in those dedicated little nuances, and the amount of fresh open air it has.
- Doxa
No comparison, imo. Even though the original version may be way too long, that's the version I grew up with. The strings on Metamorphosis I can't take...
A funny thing about the original (if memory serves): In the middle of the song, and during the "climax", one or more of Mick's voices disappear in the chorus - and everything become tamer and less energetic. Surely a mixing/producing error?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 14:44 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: October 1, 2013 15:17
Quote
howled
There are the Marimba and Strings version.
The Strings version has a more filled in chorus whereas Mick leaves a gap in the Marimba version and the Strings version has a better Spanish Guitar run.
The Strings version is Mick singing over Chris Farlowe's backing track, which is pretty strange.
Aha! So this is what happened.
"This version was, in fact, the backing track from the Chris Farlowe version, only with a Mick Jagger lead vocal, recorded in London in April 1966 as a demo for Farlowe."
There is a gap in the marimba version where Mick sings "You are all left out" and then a big grand canyon gap and then "Out of there without a doubt" which sounds odd with this big gap in the vocal phrasing.
The strings version has "Yes you are left out, yes, you are I said you're left out of there without a doubt.
I prefer Mick's vocals on the strings version and the marimba doesn't do much for me as an instrument.
It's just a motown/Spector like pop song (with more cutting lyrics) so why not make it sound like a pop song, so I prefer the strings version which apparently is just Mick and no other Stones.
Marimba version.
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Strings version.
I said baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Yes you are left out, yes, you are
I said you're left out of there without a doubt
'cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 15:30 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: October 1, 2013 15:25
I love this song. It is one of the MANY great kiss-off style songs that the Stones perfected.
Surprise, Surprise
Out Of Time
Under My Thumb
Stupid Girl
Yesterday's Papers
No Use In Crying
It Won't Take Long
etc.
Surprise, Surprise
Out Of Time
Under My Thumb
Stupid Girl
Yesterday's Papers
No Use In Crying
It Won't Take Long
etc.
Re: Track Talk: Out Of Time
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: October 1, 2013 15:38
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DeluxtoneQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Deluxtone
What is naff about I am Waiting is in the vocal part
where Mick sings 'I am waiting' and then someone chimes in 'Ting'!
Aftermath UK is where the Stones try and go 'arty' - and for me it doesn't 'wash'.
They can't fool me that they are an arty, sophoisticated group, no matter how many interesting instruments they add.
Prefer Raunch and guts tempered with some honest folk and blues.
Bring on Beggars - via Buttons and Satanics.
But Aftermath an essential (though occasionally embarassing imo) starting point.
Why is Buttons more real when it comes to folk and blues - it's not. Not the original UK version, at least.
I Am Waiting is a beautiful song: beautifully written, arranged and performed.
High And Dry surely is a real folk/country tune.
Both songs have hooks and great choruses, but I agree with Doxa that they come across a bit "boy-ish". Not bad for some 22 year olds, though.
I am Waiting has a little caribbean sound to it. As noted by Silver Dagger, High And Dry is a little "Appalachian-sounding".
Dear DP,
I didn't say that Buttons was more real than A'math with respect to folk and blues, I said that Beggars was.
I said that Beggars evolved via Buttons and Satanics.
British Buttons has MAJ and Connection and the brilliant Back Street Girl, (Parisienne). And it has Please Go Home. Yeah Baby, we're SWINGING!
It's not personal DP.
I agree about the hooks and choruses, but there are some iffy moments on A'math UK. What To Do - the backing vocals of Bow Bow Bow! Cringe.
There were great tracks for the choosing - e.g.Ride On Baby, Sitting on a Proverbial Fence
We can argue the toss as to which would be or is a better A'math. But thing is they'd started to get the album-writing art/act together.
From 1965 to 1968 J&R had mastered the album/song-writing art. 3 years. Ages 22 to 25.
Beatles likewise. 1963 to 1966. macca and Lennon aged 23-26. And they had a Harrison and Starky to help.
hats off to Jagger Richards. Big shame they wouldn't accommodate Jones - but he got big look-in soundwise along the way. But three was a crowd on the Jagger/Richards cloud
Hmmm ... this was an Out Of Time thread and not an A'math or Beatles versus Stones one!
To make amends - i don't have the albums to hand - is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis? And does anyone else agree that it's Keith on bass on that (those) version(s)/ Bass is noticeably different between Amath and Flowers version. Possibly he started his 'career' on bass here?
Not taken as personal, not at all
It was the words "via Buttons" that lead me to the conclusion that you thought Buttons (and Satanic) was a natural step to more "real" folk and blues.
To me, Buttons was a sidestep into "Kinks-land", much in line with the times in London, of course.
However, there are stuff on Buttons (All Sold Out, Connection and Miss Amanda Jones) and Satanic (Citadel and parts of 2000 Man) that hinted on what to come prior to (Child Of The Moon) and on BB, but even more on its successor, Let It Bleed - when they went down the rock route.
is Flowers OOT the same as the one on Metamorphosis?
No, the Flowers-version is an edited (shorter) version of the OOT Aftermath-version.
For earthy folk - I should have mentioned She Smiled Sweetly.
Yup, some of it is Kinksybut there are some 'darker' sounds developing.
And the 'signature' chord-riffing of which, yes, Citadel is another key example.
From there it was only a short step to SFM, JJF, HTW, Rambler, Brown Sugar (oh, hold on that's Mick, (is it?)), Rocks Off, TD, Happy ....etc..... One Last Shot.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 15:41 by Deluxtone.
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