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Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 18, 2013 08:37

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treaclefingers
Quote
landis
Quote
mtaylor
Quote
whitem8
Quote
mtaylor
Quote
Come On
Paul vs Bill on bass 1 - 0
John vs Keith on Rhythm 1 - 1
Ringo vs Charlie on drums 1 - 1
George vs Brian on guitar 1 - 1
John vs Mick on vocal 1 - 1
Paul vs Mick on vocal 1 - 1
George vs Mick on vocal 1 - 2
George vs Keith on back-up vocal 1 - 3
John vs Brian on harp 1 - 3
Lennon/McCartney vs Jagger/Richards 2 - 3
Harrison vs Wyman 3 - 3
Beatles vs Stones for 7 superb albums in a row 4 -3 (Please Please me >> Revolver)

Well, that's the tough fact sorry to say....

smoking smileycool smileysmoking smileycool smiley
John Paul George Ringo

Paul singing is like a 12-14 y.o. school boy changing to adult voice - so Mick wins with big numbers. John better than Keith on rythm is the biggest joke ever etc.

Conclusion - Beatles were a big joke, Macca as usual in his Goofy mind suggests that he invented all kind of music - he even was an inspiration to Mozart, Verdi etc.

Seriously, how old are you?? Your Middle School is on your collar.

Just pure fact - Beatles were a big joke. Macca singing good? Absolutely nonsens, the most overrated singer ever. The only good thig Macca is good at is: talking bullshit and taking advantage of everybody elses hard Work, even the other Beatles members couldn't stand him.

The Beatles musical impact was direct and immediate from Roger McGuinn picking up a 12 string electric because George Harrison played one, to partially inspiring Dylan to go electric, to spawning hundreds of sound-alike bands in garages across America, to changing the way rock music was made in terms of using the studio as an instrument of composition, to expanding the harmonic sophistication of rock, to,

I think most importantly, showing the world a new way to arrange rock music for two guitars, bass and drums. Before the Beatles, rock had two basic models for arranging -- the Muddy Waters Band Chicago blues model (a la Chuck Berry) where a band just sort of wailed away with substantial improv on a boogie riff, and the Western Swing-descended rockabilly model. The Beatles had a whole different approach with increasingly intricate two guitar parts, musical bass lines, drum beats that were compositional, immediately identifiable as an almost sing able musical element. All of a sudden there was a third way. And it took most of the decade for bands to catch up with all of that.

Macca is a great vocalist a lot better than Mic to be honest.

Macca is a better singer, but not a better vocalist.
But who is the best vocalist of all time? I say Frank Sinatra, and for best singer Tito Gobbi...

2 1 2 0

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 18, 2013 17:51

Quote
Come On
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
landis
Quote
mtaylor
Quote
whitem8
Quote
mtaylor
Quote
Come On
Paul vs Bill on bass 1 - 0
John vs Keith on Rhythm 1 - 1
Ringo vs Charlie on drums 1 - 1
George vs Brian on guitar 1 - 1
John vs Mick on vocal 1 - 1
Paul vs Mick on vocal 1 - 1
George vs Mick on vocal 1 - 2
George vs Keith on back-up vocal 1 - 3
John vs Brian on harp 1 - 3
Lennon/McCartney vs Jagger/Richards 2 - 3
Harrison vs Wyman 3 - 3
Beatles vs Stones for 7 superb albums in a row 4 -3 (Please Please me >> Revolver)

Well, that's the tough fact sorry to say....

smoking smileycool smileysmoking smileycool smiley
John Paul George Ringo

Paul singing is like a 12-14 y.o. school boy changing to adult voice - so Mick wins with big numbers. John better than Keith on rythm is the biggest joke ever etc.

Conclusion - Beatles were a big joke, Macca as usual in his Goofy mind suggests that he invented all kind of music - he even was an inspiration to Mozart, Verdi etc.

Seriously, how old are you?? Your Middle School is on your collar.

Just pure fact - Beatles were a big joke. Macca singing good? Absolutely nonsens, the most overrated singer ever. The only good thig Macca is good at is: talking bullshit and taking advantage of everybody elses hard Work, even the other Beatles members couldn't stand him.

The Beatles musical impact was direct and immediate from Roger McGuinn picking up a 12 string electric because George Harrison played one, to partially inspiring Dylan to go electric, to spawning hundreds of sound-alike bands in garages across America, to changing the way rock music was made in terms of using the studio as an instrument of composition, to expanding the harmonic sophistication of rock, to,

I think most importantly, showing the world a new way to arrange rock music for two guitars, bass and drums. Before the Beatles, rock had two basic models for arranging -- the Muddy Waters Band Chicago blues model (a la Chuck Berry) where a band just sort of wailed away with substantial improv on a boogie riff, and the Western Swing-descended rockabilly model. The Beatles had a whole different approach with increasingly intricate two guitar parts, musical bass lines, drum beats that were compositional, immediately identifiable as an almost sing able musical element. All of a sudden there was a third way. And it took most of the decade for bands to catch up with all of that.

Macca is a great vocalist a lot better than Mic to be honest.

Macca is a better singer, but not a better vocalist.
But who is the best vocalist of all time? I say Frank Sinatra, and for best singer Tito Gobbi...

I think we've argued this before.

Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Date: October 18, 2013 18:53

Quote
treaclefingers
Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.

Best (rock n roll) vocalist - Jim Morrison.

Morrison could sing Brown Sugar, Mick could never sing Five To One. Morrison could sing Come Together, Lennon could never have sung Peace Frog. Morrison could've sung Like A Rolling Stone, Bob would have some issues singing Roadhouse Blues. Morrison could sing Voodoo Chile, Jimi would've embarassed himself singing Touch Me. Basically, it's my assertion that Jim Morrison could be substituted (that reminds me, Morrison would've killed Baba O'Riley [not to say that Daltrey doesn't], but Daltrey certainly isn't going to have an easy go of Soul Kitchen) for virtually any vocalist in his era and the songs would've held up - and, in some cases, possibly improved. I can't think of anybody else from that era I could say that about. Now, there are singers (Van Morrison, to name one) who nobody can really "slot in" and replace without subtracting something from the song - mainly because the writing is so personal and the vocals follow suit - but overall, take a rock n roll hit (though not necessarily a deep album cut) from any artist from the mid 60's-early 70's and plug Jimbo in there, and, for my money it works. Clearly, I've invented my own criterion here, but I can't think of a better way to compare/contrast singers from different bands.

Best singer: 3-way tie (depending on the day) - Sam Cooke/Aretha Franklin/Al Green

Post hijack over.


Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 18, 2013 18:55

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Come On
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
landis
Quote
mtaylor
Quote
whitem8
Quote
mtaylor
Quote
Come On
Paul vs Bill on bass 1 - 0
John vs Keith on Rhythm 1 - 1
Ringo vs Charlie on drums 1 - 1
George vs Brian on guitar 1 - 1
John vs Mick on vocal 1 - 1
Paul vs Mick on vocal 1 - 1
George vs Mick on vocal 1 - 2
George vs Keith on back-up vocal 1 - 3
John vs Brian on harp 1 - 3
Lennon/McCartney vs Jagger/Richards 2 - 3
Harrison vs Wyman 3 - 3
Beatles vs Stones for 7 superb albums in a row 4 -3 (Please Please me >> Revolver)

Well, that's the tough fact sorry to say....

smoking smileycool smileysmoking smileycool smiley
John Paul George Ringo

Paul singing is like a 12-14 y.o. school boy changing to adult voice - so Mick wins with big numbers. John better than Keith on rythm is the biggest joke ever etc.

Conclusion - Beatles were a big joke, Macca as usual in his Goofy mind suggests that he invented all kind of music - he even was an inspiration to Mozart, Verdi etc.

Seriously, how old are you?? Your Middle School is on your collar.

Just pure fact - Beatles were a big joke. Macca singing good? Absolutely nonsens, the most overrated singer ever. The only good thig Macca is good at is: talking bullshit and taking advantage of everybody elses hard Work, even the other Beatles members couldn't stand him.

The Beatles musical impact was direct and immediate from Roger McGuinn picking up a 12 string electric because George Harrison played one, to partially inspiring Dylan to go electric, to spawning hundreds of sound-alike bands in garages across America, to changing the way rock music was made in terms of using the studio as an instrument of composition, to expanding the harmonic sophistication of rock, to,

I think most importantly, showing the world a new way to arrange rock music for two guitars, bass and drums. Before the Beatles, rock had two basic models for arranging -- the Muddy Waters Band Chicago blues model (a la Chuck Berry) where a band just sort of wailed away with substantial improv on a boogie riff, and the Western Swing-descended rockabilly model. The Beatles had a whole different approach with increasingly intricate two guitar parts, musical bass lines, drum beats that were compositional, immediately identifiable as an almost sing able musical element. All of a sudden there was a third way. And it took most of the decade for bands to catch up with all of that.

Macca is a great vocalist a lot better than Mic to be honest.

Macca is a better singer, but not a better vocalist.
But who is the best vocalist of all time? I say Frank Sinatra, and for best singer Tito Gobbi...

I think we've argued this before.

Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.

I would never argued with Dylan or Elvis... suberb choice...

2 1 2 0

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: landis ()
Date: October 19, 2013 01:57

Quote
The Ghost Of Good taste
Quote
treaclefingers
Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.

Best (rock n roll) vocalist - Jim Morrison.

Morrison could sing Brown Sugar, Mick could never sing Five To One. Morrison could sing Come Together, Lennon could never have sung Peace Frog. Morrison could've sung Like A Rolling Stone, Bob would have some issues singing Roadhouse Blues. Morrison could sing Voodoo Chile, Jimi would've embarassed himself singing Touch Me. Basically, it's my assertion that Jim Morrison could be substituted (that reminds me, Morrison would've killed Baba O'Riley [not to say that Daltrey doesn't], but Daltrey certainly isn't going to have an easy go of Soul Kitchen) for virtually any vocalist in his era and the songs would've held up - and, in some cases, possibly improved. I can't think of anybody else from that era I could say that about. Now, there are singers (Van Morrison, to name one) who nobody can really "slot in" and replace without subtracting something from the song - mainly because the writing is so personal and the vocals follow suit - but overall, take a rock n roll hit (though not necessarily a deep album cut) from any artist from the mid 60's-early 70's and plug Jimbo in there, and, for my money it works. Clearly, I've invented my own criterion here, but I can't think of a better way to compare/contrast singers from different bands.

Best singer: 3-way tie (depending on the day) - Sam Cooke/Aretha Franklin/Al Green

Post hijack over.

As a pure rock and roll singer I prefer Lennon easily over Jim Morrison. I view Lennon vocals on "Money That's What I Want" as one of rock music greatest vocal performances. Then when The Beatles got all psychedelic the vocals Lennon did on "A Day In The Life" is just to surreal for Jim Morrison to equal.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 19, 2013 08:49

Quote
landis
Quote
The Ghost Of Good taste
Quote
treaclefingers
Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.

Best (rock n roll) vocalist - Jim Morrison.

Morrison could sing Brown Sugar, Mick could never sing Five To One. Morrison could sing Come Together, Lennon could never have sung Peace Frog. Morrison could've sung Like A Rolling Stone, Bob would have some issues singing Roadhouse Blues. Morrison could sing Voodoo Chile, Jimi would've embarassed himself singing Touch Me. Basically, it's my assertion that Jim Morrison could be substituted (that reminds me, Morrison would've killed Baba O'Riley [not to say that Daltrey doesn't], but Daltrey certainly isn't going to have an easy go of Soul Kitchen) for virtually any vocalist in his era and the songs would've held up - and, in some cases, possibly improved. I can't think of anybody else from that era I could say that about. Now, there are singers (Van Morrison, to name one) who nobody can really "slot in" and replace without subtracting something from the song - mainly because the writing is so personal and the vocals follow suit - but overall, take a rock n roll hit (though not necessarily a deep album cut) from any artist from the mid 60's-early 70's and plug Jimbo in there, and, for my money it works. Clearly, I've invented my own criterion here, but I can't think of a better way to compare/contrast singers from different bands.

Best singer: 3-way tie (depending on the day) - Sam Cooke/Aretha Franklin/Al Green

Post hijack over.

As a pure rock and roll singer I prefer Lennon easily over Jim Morrison. I view Lennon vocals on "Money That's What I Want" as one of rock music greatest vocal performances. Then when The Beatles got all psychedelic the vocals Lennon did on "A Day In The Life" is just to surreal for Jim Morrison to equal.

Rock vocalist's singing in tenor tend to do better than baritone and certainly bass.

That's just the way it is. Morrison was great but I'd say limited by his range. If he'd live a longer life, his voice would have deepened further and that isn't especially good for the rock vocal.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Date: October 19, 2013 08:57

Quote
The Ghost Of Good taste
Quote
treaclefingers
Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.

Best (rock n roll) vocalist - Jim Morrison.

Morrison could sing Brown Sugar, Mick could never sing Five To One. Morrison could sing Come Together, Lennon could never have sung Peace Frog. Morrison could've sung Like A Rolling Stone, Bob would have some issues singing Roadhouse Blues. Morrison could sing Voodoo Chile, Jimi would've embarassed himself singing Touch Me. Basically, it's my assertion that Jim Morrison could be substituted (that reminds me, Morrison would've killed Baba O'Riley [not to say that Daltrey doesn't], but Daltrey certainly isn't going to have an easy go of Soul Kitchen) for virtually any vocalist in his era and the songs would've held up - and, in some cases, possibly improved. I can't think of anybody else from that era I could say that about. Now, there are singers (Van Morrison, to name one) who nobody can really "slot in" and replace without subtracting something from the song - mainly because the writing is so personal and the vocals follow suit - but overall, take a rock n roll hit (though not necessarily a deep album cut) from any artist from the mid 60's-early 70's and plug Jimbo in there, and, for my money it works. Clearly, I've invented my own criterion here, but I can't think of a better way to compare/contrast singers from different bands.

Best singer: 3-way tie (depending on the day) - Sam Cooke/Aretha Franklin/Al Green

Post hijack over.

i'm a huge doors fan and i disagree with that statement. i think daltrey would have an easier time singer all those songs you mentioned. morrison was a poet that got asked to front a band

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 19, 2013 11:12

Lennon could never have sung Peace Frog

grinning smiley

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: October 19, 2013 13:51

i'm a huge doors fan

Me too, and Manzarek is a very underrated musician...


Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: bluesinc. ()
Date: October 19, 2013 14:03

Best vocalist of all time, for me, either Bobby Darin or Bobby Dylan.

Singer...hmmm...that's tougher. Always liked early Elvis.[/quote]

i love bobby darin, great & great he´s mentioned here

Re: Beatles v Stones
Date: October 19, 2013 16:30

Daltrey was indeed very versatile, keef - maybe the only one I would consider besides Morrison as "best vocalist" based on my criterion...and yes, treacle, had Morrison lived the range would've undoubtedly narrowed (as it had already begun to do by the time of LA Woman), but, luckily, all we have is prime/close to prime Morrison to listen to; and that Morrison is still, to me, the greatest rock n roll vocalist of all time...and, sorry Landis but for me Lennon doesn't cut it (though he's certainly the best singer the Beatles had). Morrison could sing pop ballads, spacey freakouts and straightforward barroom rock n roll - love him. Fun discussion in any event.


Oh, and I should've included Waylon Jennings in my (now 4-way) tie for greatest singer - maybe the most overlooked/underrated singer of all.


Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: GumbootCloggeroo ()
Date: October 19, 2013 17:24

One voice that is being overlooked is Harry Nilsson's voice. He was amazing. And a fantastic songwriter, as well. My favourite, for sure.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 19, 2013 17:53

Quote
GumbootCloggeroo
One voice that is being overlooked is Harry Nilsson's voice. He was amazing. And a fantastic songwriter, as well. My favourite, for sure.

hey...I overlooked him!

Good call Gumboot!

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: landis ()
Date: October 19, 2013 23:02

Quote
The Ghost Of Good taste
Daltrey was indeed very versatile, keef - maybe the only one I would consider besides Morrison as "best vocalist" based on my criterion...and yes, treacle, had Morrison lived the range would've undoubtedly narrowed (as it had already begun to do by the time of LA Woman), but, luckily, all we have is prime/close to prime Morrison to listen to; and that Morrison is still, to me, the greatest rock n roll vocalist of all time...and, sorry Landis but for me Lennon doesn't cut it (though he's certainly the best singer the Beatles had). Morrison could sing pop ballads, spacey freakouts and straightforward barroom rock n roll - love him. Fun discussion in any event.


Oh, and I should've included Waylon Jennings in my (now 4-way) tie for greatest singer - maybe the most overlooked/underrated singer of all.

Sorry I just can't see Jim Morrison singing something like "Because" or "Julia". It's not like Morrison doesn't have good voice but his vocal range is not cut for the Beatles songs. I would add to my point that most blues-based vocalists seem to have a hard time covering Beatles songs as their songs emphasized more on melody than actual blues structure.

I think Paul McCartney is actually a better all around vocalist than Lennon. If you don't think Paul wasn't a great vocalist just compare Elvis Presley version of "Hey Jude" to the original.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-19 23:04 by landis.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: landis ()
Date: October 23, 2013 03:52

Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.]



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-23 03:58 by landis.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: bluesno1fann ()
Date: October 23, 2013 04:22

Lennon/McCartney vs Jagger/Richards: Lennon/McCartney
Lennon vs Jagger: Lennon
Lennon vs Wyman: Lennon
Lennon vs Richards: Richards
Lennon vs Jones: Jones
Lennon vs Taylor: Taylor
Lennon vs Wood: Wood
McCartney vs Wyman: Wyman "dodges bricks"
McCartney vs Jagger: Jagger
McCartney vs Richards: Richards
McCartney vs Jones: Jones
McCartney vs Stewart: McCartney
McCartney vs Taylor: Taylor
McCartney vs Wood: McCartney
Harrison vs Richards: Richards
Harrison vs Jones: Jones
Harrison vs Wyman: Wyman
Harrison vs Taylor: Taylor
Harrison vs Wood: Harrison
Harrison vs Jagger: Jagger
Starr vs Watts: Watts
Starr vs Wyman: Wyman
Starr vs Jagger: Jagger (Vocal-wise)
Starr vs Richards: Starr (Vocal-wise)
Starr vs Jones: Jones (Vocal-wise)

Albums:
The Rolling Stones vs Please Please Me: The Rolling Stones
The Rolling Stones 2 vs With The Beatles: The Rolling Stones 2
Out Of Our Heads vs A Hard Day's Night: A Hard Day's Night
Out Of Out Heads vs Beatles For Sale: Out Of Our Heads
Out Of Our Heads vs Help!: Help!
Aftermath vs Rubber Soul: Aftermath
Between The Buttons vs Revolver: Revolver
Their Satanic Majesties Request vs Sgt. Pepper: Their Satanic Majesties Request "dodges bricks"
Their Satanic Majesties Request vs Magical Mystery Tour: Magical Mystery Tour
Beggar's Banquet vs The White Album: Beggar's Banquet
Beggar's Banquet vs Yellow Submarine: Beggar's Banquet
Let It Bleed vs Let It Be: Let It Bleed
Sticky Fingers vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Exile vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Goat's Head Soup vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
IORR/Black and Blue vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Some Girls vs Abbey Road: Some Girls
Emotional Rescue/Tattoo You vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Undercover/Dirty Work/Steel Wheels: Abbey Road
Voodoo Lounge/Bridges To Babylon/A Bigger Bang vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road

Winner:
It's a close one, but I'm gonna have to give the edge to the Stones as my preference. But a lot of people would disagree. At the end it all comes down to tastes and preferences.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: bluesno1fann ()
Date: October 23, 2013 04:22

Lennon/McCartney vs Jagger/Richards: Lennon/McCartney
Lennon vs Jagger: Lennon
Lennon vs Wyman: Lennon
Lennon vs Richards: Richards
Lennon vs Jones: Jones
Lennon vs Taylor: Taylor
Lennon vs Wood: Wood
McCartney vs Wyman: Wyman "dodges bricks"
McCartney vs Jagger: Jagger
McCartney vs Richards: Richards
McCartney vs Jones: Jones
McCartney vs Stewart: McCartney
McCartney vs Taylor: Taylor
McCartney vs Wood: McCartney
Harrison vs Richards: Richards
Harrison vs Jones: Jones
Harrison vs Wyman: Wyman
Harrison vs Taylor: Taylor
Harrison vs Wood: Harrison
Harrison vs Jagger: Jagger
Starr vs Watts: Watts
Starr vs Wyman: Wyman
Starr vs Jagger: Jagger (Vocal-wise)
Starr vs Richards: Starr (Vocal-wise)
Starr vs Jones: Jones (Vocal-wise)

Albums:
The Rolling Stones vs Please Please Me: The Rolling Stones
The Rolling Stones 2 vs With The Beatles: The Rolling Stones 2
Out Of Our Heads vs A Hard Day's Night: A Hard Day's Night
Out Of Out Heads vs Beatles For Sale: Out Of Our Heads
Out Of Our Heads vs Help!: Help!
Aftermath vs Rubber Soul: Aftermath
Between The Buttons vs Revolver: Revolver
Their Satanic Majesties Request vs Sgt. Pepper: Their Satanic Majesties Request "dodges bricks"
Their Satanic Majesties Request vs Magical Mystery Tour: Magical Mystery Tour
Beggar's Banquet vs The White Album: Beggar's Banquet
Beggar's Banquet vs Yellow Submarine: Beggar's Banquet
Let It Bleed vs Let It Be: Let It Bleed
Sticky Fingers vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Exile vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Goat's Head Soup vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
IORR/Black and Blue vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Some Girls vs Abbey Road: Some Girls
Emotional Rescue/Tattoo You vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road
Undercover/Dirty Work/Steel Wheels: Abbey Road
Voodoo Lounge/Bridges To Babylon/A Bigger Bang vs Abbey Road: Abbey Road

Winner:
It's a close one, but I'm gonna have to give the edge to the Stones as my preference. But a lot of people would disagree. At the end it all comes down to tastes and preferences.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: October 23, 2013 05:07

Quote
landis
Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-23 08:05 by stonehearted.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: Happy Jack ()
Date: October 23, 2013 19:22

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
landis
Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 23, 2013 19:31

Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
landis
Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Date: October 23, 2013 19:43

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treaclefingers
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
Quote
landis
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
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ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

Re: Beatles v Stones
Date: October 23, 2013 19:53

Quote
landis
Sorry I just can't see Jim Morrison singing something like "Because" or "Julia"...I think Paul McCartney is actually a better all around vocalist than Lennon. If you don't think Paul wasn't a great vocalist just compare Elvis Presley version of "Hey Jude" to the original.

That's why I differentiated between "hits" and "deep album cuts" in my initial post - certainly, there are tons of late 60's/early 70's "classic rock" songs Morrison couldn't pull off, but as far as the "hits", I think he would acquit himself better than any other singer of the era...and, as much as I love Elvis (and, believe me, I love Elvis a whole hell of a lot), doing the "hits of the day" was always a weak spot for him - always came off sounding weird and/or corny. That said, I can't stand "Hey, Jude" unless Wilson Pickett is singing it.


Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: October 23, 2013 20:08

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keefriffhard4life
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treaclefingers
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No, I didn't say that Ringo said that John referred to it as the first "heavy metal" song, but his first.

I don't see it either, but maybe it felt that way playing it in the studio. In a way you can see it, because for the first time they're playing rock n roll slower rather than faster and with sustain in the guitars.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 23, 2013 23:21

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stonehearted
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keefriffhard4life
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treaclefingers
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No, I didn't say that Ringo said that John referred to it as the first "heavy metal" song, but his first.

I don't see it either, but maybe it felt that way playing it in the studio. In a way you can see it, because for the first time they're playing rock n roll slower rather than faster and with sustain in the guitars.

Maybe we inferred it. If we did infer it, it must be true.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: landis ()
Date: October 25, 2013 01:41

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keefriffhard4life
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treaclefingers
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
Quote
landis
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
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ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No it's not. "You Really Got Me" is nowhere near a heavy metal song or a punk rock song. Heck I think The Beatles "You Can't Do That" to my ears sounds more metallic than "You Really Got Me". The first metal songs were probably done around 1968 and by more than a few acts at the same time.

I like The Kinks but they were at most in the 60's were early hard rock but they never ventured into the heavy metal area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-25 01:41 by landis.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 25, 2013 01:48

This one will do in the list.................





__________________________

Re: Beatles v Stones
Date: October 25, 2013 02:29

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landis
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keefriffhard4life
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treaclefingers
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Happy Jack
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stonehearted
Quote
landis
Quote
Happy Jack
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stonehearted
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ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No it's not. "You Really Got Me" is nowhere near a heavy metal song or a punk rock song. Heck I think The Beatles "You Can't Do That" to my ears sounds more metallic than "You Really Got Me". The first metal songs were probably done around 1968 and by more than a few acts at the same time.

I like The Kinks but they were at most in the 60's were early hard rock but they never ventured into the heavy metal area.

its the guitar tone and style of riff why people say its the first metal song. the attitude of the vocal has a punk feel.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: landis ()
Date: October 25, 2013 04:26

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keefriffhard4life
Quote
landis
Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
landis
Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
ash
The Yardbirds may have used a sitar a few months before the beatles but the attempt went unreleased till the 80s so they may not have heard it.

Yes, the sitar version of Heart Full of Soul was recorded on April 20, but could not be played live to an audience that way so Jeff Beck recorded a second version employing a fuzz box with a tone blender. The sitar version was finally released on the 1978 compilation The Shapes of Things

Another example of The Yardbirds being ahead of The Beatles in terms of eastern influences was Still I'm Sad, which is also featured on their album Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds, released 3 weeks before Rubber Soul.

That's Giorgio Gomelsky on the backing vocals doing the droning bass part.



Actually the Kinks are credited with having the first Eastern influenced song in rock, with See My Friends released in July 1965.

I could name many things The Beatles did that were away ahead of what The Kinks or The Yardbirds were doing. I actually don't think either the Kinks or The Yardbirds were actually first to use drone or eastern influences in rock music.

According to Ian MacDonald "Revolution In The Head noted that the first Beatles track that uses the Indian basis of drone is on "Ticket To Ride" and George was already exposed to Indian music before the start of the recording and filming of Help. Whether this is true or not "Ticket To Ride" does have a pronounced drone sound and it predates "See My Friends" by a couple of months. How many songs did the Yardbirds actually incorporate Indian instruments like "Love You To" or "Within You Without You"? I guess the source of the original argument came from someone reading Piero Scarufi amusing article on The Beatles.

One more point "Still I'M Sad" is not an eastern influenced song anyway.

Not sure Ticket To Ride displays "the Indian basis of drone" but rather is more the effect of "sustain".

I don't think eastern influences played a part there. In fact, according to Ringo, John Lennon considered Ticket To Ride his first "heavy metal" song.

Was John being Sarcastic about Ticket to Ride, because I don't see it. A better candidate for first heavy Metal song might be Anyway Anyhow Anywhere by the Who released in May 1965.

First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No it's not. "You Really Got Me" is nowhere near a heavy metal song or a punk rock song. Heck I think The Beatles "You Can't Do That" to my ears sounds more metallic than "You Really Got Me". The first metal songs were probably done around 1968 and by more than a few acts at the same time.

I like The Kinks but they were at most in the 60's were early hard rock but they never ventured into the heavy metal area.

its the guitar tone and style of riff why people say its the first metal song. the attitude of the vocal has a punk feel.

"You Really Got Me" was an important influence on hard rock but it's nowhere near metal like Black Sabbath or punk rock like The Stooges.

Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: October 25, 2013 04:52

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landis
Quote
keefriffhard4life
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landis
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keefriffhard4life
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treaclefingers
First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No it's not. "You Really Got Me" is nowhere near a heavy metal song or a punk rock song. Heck I think The Beatles "You Can't Do That" to my ears sounds more metallic than "You Really Got Me". The first metal songs were probably done around 1968 and by more than a few acts at the same time.

I like The Kinks but they were at most in the 60's were early hard rock but they never ventured into the heavy metal area.

its the guitar tone and style of riff why people say its the first metal song. the attitude of the vocal has a punk feel.

"You Really Got Me" was an important influence on hard rock but it's nowhere near metal like Black Sabbath or punk rock like The Stooges.

You Really Got Me was recorded with an 8-watt amp Dave purchased in a home appliance shop [the famous "little green amp"] plugged into a Vox AC30. You can't get heavy metal out of 38 watts--heavy rubber maybe, but not heavy metal.

Metal bands don't look further back than the late 60s for their heros. Ozzy Osbourne and Jimmy Page are their founding fathers. I've never heard anyone from any metal band name Dave or Ray Davies as a template for metal, let alone as an influence even.

The vocals have more of a garage feel--laid back and with a touch of teasing humor, rather than fierce angry rebellion. The Kinks did not influence punk, their records did not even chart in the UK after 1967. When Iggy Pop, The New York Dolls and The Ramones were at their height, Ray Davies had transformed The Kinks into a long-haired ragtime big-band dance hall group--that is the version of The Kinks emerging punk musicians first became acquainted with.

The Kinks in 1975--no punks in that television audience.




Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 25, 2013 05:20

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stonehearted
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landis
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keefriffhard4life
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landis
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keefriffhard4life
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treaclefingers
First heavy metal song was You Really Got Me by the Kinks, 1964.

also the first punk song

No it's not. "You Really Got Me" is nowhere near a heavy metal song or a punk rock song. Heck I think The Beatles "You Can't Do That" to my ears sounds more metallic than "You Really Got Me". The first metal songs were probably done around 1968 and by more than a few acts at the same time.

I like The Kinks but they were at most in the 60's were early hard rock but they never ventured into the heavy metal area.

its the guitar tone and style of riff why people say its the first metal song. the attitude of the vocal has a punk feel.

"You Really Got Me" was an important influence on hard rock but it's nowhere near metal like Black Sabbath or punk rock like The Stooges.

You Really Got Me was recorded with an 8-watt amp Dave purchased in a home appliance shop [the famous "little green amp"] plugged into a Vox AC30. You can't get heavy metal out of 38 watts--heavy rubber maybe, but not heavy metal.

Metal bands don't look further back than the late 60s for their heros. Ozzy Osbourne and Jimmy Page are their founding fathers. I've never heard anyone from any metal band name Dave or Ray Davies as a template for metal, let alone as an influence even.

The vocals have more of a garage feel--laid back and with a touch of teasing humor, rather than fierce angry rebellion. The Kinks did not influence punk, their records did not even chart in the UK after 1967. When Iggy Pop, The New York Dolls and The Ramones were at their height, Ray Davies had transformed The Kinks into a long-haired ragtime big-band dance hall group--that is the version of The Kinks emerging punk musicians first became acquainted with.

The Kinks in 1975--no punks in that television audience.



I think Dave Davies has the final word on this..."they didn't call it Heavy Metal when I invented it"...I'm paraphrasing.

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