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Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: November 30, 2021 00:19

Quote
filstan
Quote
Nikkei
"I don't blame Yoko for any of this... ...never mind the Yoko screeching bits" so what is it then?

Nikkei: As I mentioned, John was the person that enabled Yoko not only to be there, but to do as she chose to do. This doesn't mean I liked anything about her shrieking at all. My feeling is that if John had said no, it would likely not have gone down the way it did. I guess I could have chosen my words differently was

This what I’m saying also. Ultimately she should not have been there. In reality she was. In that reality, she was a lot quieter on John’s lap than she had been portrayed. I expected lots of opinions from her, turned she just warbled and shrieked a little bit. With Paul on drums.

It was so funny when Paul’s daughter Heather started to imitate Yoko. McCartney had a little smile to himself...

Should she have been there - NO, was she there - YES.
She was a lot quieter than I thought she would be.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 30, 2021 00:24

I'm rewatching the original Let It Be. Here if anyone wants it:

[vimeo.com]

Honestly, THIS is the cut down version of Peter Jackson's film. Its a lot of the same footage and this is what a condensed version looks like, which kinda ruins the whole thing. Because Peter's works as an in depth exploration of this album and their relationships at the time. If you cut it down, you get what essentially Let It Be is which is just them playing songs in the studio. But the reason Let It Be, IMO seeing it now, was never a good film is there's no story. Without everything else, you see no struggle, you actually see very little arguing and you just see them playing the songs without repeating them a million times. Which in itself is also interesting, but its kinda just a boring movie of the Beatles in the studio playing these songs. It seems like they're already put together.

So 1. the myth that they were fighting shouldn't have come from this movie. There's literally the one scene of Paul and George arguing ("I'll play whatever you want me to play"). The rest is the Beatles all smiles. and 2. Michael Lindsay Hogg is not to blame for this movie being bad. Its bad because he had the insurmountable task of editing down 60 hours of footage into 80 minutes which just doesn't work and because at the time they didn't want to truly show how it was in the studio. They wanted to purport a Beatles myth. Which they do here that they are just boys having fun.

But for those that want a condensed version of Peter Jackson, watch original Let It Be. You lose all the great stuff like George leaving, feeling stifled, Paul talking about Yoko, Paul and John's private conversation, but you those only make sense with context. I don't think you'd get those in a cut down piece and Let It Be isn't great, but if you cut everything down, you'd probably get these performances, which just make for a relatively dull film lol.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: November 30, 2021 01:10

Early in the morning at the beginning of Part 2, Paul, Linda, Ringo, Neil, Michael, Glyn, Mal and a couple others sat around shooting the breeze (George had just left the band and they were trying to figure out what to do) and while waiting for John to show up and Paul addressed the Yoko situation:

Linda: 'Cause I have a feeling that half the stuff Yoko said yesterday isn't...she was talking for John. And I don't really think he really believed any of that, you know?

Paul: No so it's, John didn't talk, so Yoko talked for John.

Michael: What did George say?

Paul: In the middle of all that actually, George went. He said, "I'll see you." See their point is that they're trying to, like, be as near together as they can. They want to stay together, those two. So it's all right. Let the young lovers stay together. But it's not that bad you know. We got a lot out of Beatles so that if—I think John's thing now— If it came to a push between Yoko and The Beatles...it's Yoko.

Michael: Funny what you were saying the other day, John had said that he really did not want not to be a Beatle.

Paul: Yes

Michael: Were you writing together much more before she came around?

Paul: Oh yeah. Sure. We'd cooled it because we were not playing together. 'Cause we lived together when we played together. We were in the same hotel, up at the same time every morning, all day. As long as you're this close all day, so something grows. And when you're not this close, just physically, something goes.

Michael: Right

Paul: Actually, musically, we can play better than we've ever been able to play. You know, we're all right on that. It's just that being together thing. It's difficult starting right from scratch with Yoko there. 'Cause I start out writing songs about white walls. (laughter) You know, just 'cause I think John and Yoko would like that. And they wouldn't. She's great, she's really alright. So, I think it's just silly of me or anyone to try and say to 'em, "No, you can't." It's like..It's like that were striking 'cause work conditions aren't right. But it shouldn't be. "Can't operate under these conditions, boy. We're coming out." It's like they're going overboard about it. But John always does you know. You can't go saying, "Be sensible about it and don't bring her to meetings." It's his decision, that...It's none of our business, like, interfering in that.

Neil: But there's still got to be that little bit of compromise.

Paul: Well, I think for them to be able to compromise, I have to be able to compromise first. Then they'll be able to. But it's silly, neither of us compromising. We probably do need really some sort of a central daddy figure to say, you know, "Nine o'clock, leave your girls at home, lads." You know were all...But it's gonna be such an incredible sort of comical thing, like, in 50 years' time. "They broke up 'cause Yoko sat on an amp."...Just something like that. "What?" "You see, John kept bringing this girl along." It's not as though there's any sort of earth-splitting rows or anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-30 14:58 by The Sicilian.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: November 30, 2021 01:17

Quote
Paddy
Quote
filstan
Quote
Nikkei
"I don't blame Yoko for any of this... ...never mind the Yoko screeching bits" so what is it then?

Nikkei: As I mentioned, John was the person that enabled Yoko not only to be there, but to do as she chose to do. This doesn't mean I liked anything about her shrieking at all. My feeling is that if John had said no, it would likely not have gone down the way it did. I guess I could have chosen my words differently was

This what I’m saying also. Ultimately she should not have been there. In reality she was. In that reality, she was a lot quieter on John’s lap than she had been portrayed. I expected lots of opinions from her, turned she just warbled and shrieked a little bit. With Paul on drums.

It was so funny when Paul’s daughter Heather started to imitate Yoko. McCartney had a little smile to himself...

Should she have been there - NO, was she there - YES.

She was a lot quieter than I thought she would be.

Your right, she was real quiet maybe they edit out here talking and comments..... we never know or we have watch 60 hours.......

__________________________

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: November 30, 2021 08:33

From what I recall (what they showed) she wasn't on the microphone when George was in the studio

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 30, 2021 13:25

Quote
RollingFreak

But for those that want a condensed version of Peter Jackson, watch original Let It Be. You lose all the great stuff like George leaving, feeling stifled, Paul talking about Yoko, Paul and John's private conversation, but you those only make sense with context. I don't think you'd get those in a cut down piece and Let It Be isn't great, but if you cut everything down, you'd probably get these performances, which just make for a relatively dull film lol.

I'm quite sure that you can depict those things also within an 2-hrs-version. The film could use a supporting narrative - either by small texts or by a narrator from the off. This could explain the several situations shorter & faster instead of using lot of film-minutes and letting the pictures just speak for themself. But I like the background-idea of the 2021 film that the Beatles have just 3 weeks to record a new Album and prepare a Live-performance as well as the question: 'Will they make it in time?'. This idea could be depicted in a bit more entertaining way for the general audience.

Thanks for the link to the original 1969 LIB-film, which I hadn't seen before. Had only a quick look now and it looks like an extended Music-Video - the Beatles just playing songs in the studio and during the rooftop-performance. It's boring because it misses a story as well as the people behind it and their relationships with each other.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Date: November 30, 2021 13:37

<Michael: Funny what you were saying the other day, John had said that he really did not want to be a Beatle>

Didn't he say «John had said that he really did not want not to be a Beatle»?

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: November 30, 2021 15:00

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Didn't he say «John had said that he really did not want not to be a Beatle»?

Your correct, I fixed it. I must have missed the second "not". I was typing it in a hurry.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Date: November 30, 2021 15:19

Quote
The Sicilian
Quote
DandelionPowderman


Didn't he say «John had said that he really did not want not to be a Beatle»?

Your correct, I fixed it. I must have missed the second "not". I was typing it in a hurry.

It's a clumsy sentence anyhow smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-30 15:57 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: November 30, 2021 15:24

Quote
Paddy
Quote
filstan
Quote
Nikkei
"I don't blame Yoko for any of this... ...never mind the Yoko screeching bits" so what is it then?

Nikkei: As I mentioned, John was the person that enabled Yoko not only to be there, but to do as she chose to do. This doesn't mean I liked anything about her shrieking at all. My feeling is that if John had said no, it would likely not have gone down the way it did. I guess I could have chosen my words differently was

This what I’m saying also. Ultimately she should not have been there. In reality she was. In that reality, she was a lot quieter on John’s lap than she had been portrayed. I expected lots of opinions from her, turned she just warbled and shrieked a little bit. With Paul on drums.

It was so funny when Paul’s daughter Heather started to imitate Yoko. McCartney had a little smile to himself...

Should she have been there - NO, was she there - YES.
She was a lot quieter than I thought she would be.

I remember her saying years ago, she never asked to go, it was John's idea, he wanted her by his side at all times.

Not sure if that's the truth or not but I do remember that.

The most interesting things I noticed were, Lennon's a much better guitar player than I remember, and after watching 7 hours of them starting songs and either ending them prematurely or end up goofing around were able to wrap it all up with some great performances on the rooftop and back in the studio after.

And this was clearly McCartney's project that Lennon complied with but also interjected the reality of the situation when it became crunch time, like keeping Paul in check when he kept insisting 11-14 songs and Lennon insisting they could only do 6.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-30 16:18 by kovach.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: November 30, 2021 16:55

I think one of the funnier moments was just prior to that "campfire conversation with Paul" when a bouquet of flowers was delivered to the set. Ringo was sitting and chatting with Michael Hogg (Director), Tony Richmond (Director of Photography), Mal Evans (Road Manager) and Kevin Harrington (Roadie)

A older delivery man walks in with a bouquet of yellow flowers. He quickly scans the group and asks for Mr. Harrison and everyone starts to crack up. Laughing, he then looks at Ringo confused probably thinking maybe Ringo was George and Ringo says:

Ringo: Yeah I'll take them for him.

Delivery Man: I had strict instructions to bring them on the set.

Ringo: Taking the flowers. "Yeah, okay."

Ringo: "Who are they from" as he opens the card. "Oh Hare Krishna, yeah, those people."

Michael: "Harry who?"

Ringo: "Hare Krishna."

Michael: "Do you like India?"

Ringo: "No, not really." (then he hands the flowers to the roadie to take away)

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: November 30, 2021 22:49

hot smiley

__________________________

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: November 30, 2021 22:53

The Stones win on longevity though. 59-7!

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: November 30, 2021 23:01

I think I’ll watch this again over the Christmas. smiling smiley

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: November 30, 2021 23:05

Quote
Stoneage
The Stones win on longevity though. 59-7!

But in the long run people will only remember the 60s stuff by both bands so it doesn't really matter

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: December 1, 2021 00:27

I decided to watch the anthology series again. It’s been years since I’ve seen it.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 1, 2021 01:22

Quote
NilsHolgersson
Quote
Stoneage
The Stones win on longevity though. 59-7!

But in the long run people will only remember the 60s stuff by both bands so it doesn't really matter

Don't think that's true...up through 81 they were big recording act in addition to touring. The 70s was a huge Stones decade.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: December 1, 2021 02:56

Plowing my way thru Get Back, I’ve noticed a couple clips where they’re playing High Heel Sneakers. Um…Paul… Blues cover band? grinning smiley


Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: December 1, 2021 03:19

Quote
NilsHolgersson
Quote
Stoneage
The Stones win on longevity though. 59-7!

But in the long run people will only remember the 60s stuff by both bands so it doesn't really matter

Since all the Beatles albums were recorded in the 60s I'd say you're at least half right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-01 14:47 by kovach.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: December 1, 2021 06:05

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl
Plowing my way thru Get Back, I’ve noticed a couple clips where they’re playing High Heel Sneakers. Um…Paul… Blues cover band? grinning smiley

That clip starts in the Apple studio at about 58 minute mark of Part 2. Then around 58:55 John Lennon is shown looking over the Stones Beggars Banquet album. He then hands the album to Yoko and she puts the cigarette boxes on it and sets it aside. Yoko is later seen holding the album in her lap.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: December 1, 2021 06:37

Some of the comments from people on the street during the rooftop concert are the most Python things I’ve seen in years.


Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: December 1, 2021 19:52

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
NilsHolgersson
Quote
Stoneage
The Stones win on longevity though. 59-7!

But in the long run people will only remember the 60s stuff by both bands so it doesn't really matter

Don't think that's true...up through 81 they were big recording act in addition to touring. The 70s was a huge Stones decade.

Sticky Fingers, Exile, Some Girls were all huge in the 70s, and Tattoo You in the 80's.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: December 1, 2021 19:56

Quote
terraplane
Billy Preston certainly made a significant musical contribution to the tunes he played on

Yeah, I really didn't know how much until watching this, things really sounded different and took off after he arrived!

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: December 1, 2021 20:04

Quote
Paddy
It was so funny when Paul’s daughter Heather started to imitate Yoko. McCartney had a little smile to himself...

Yes, that was entertaining. That and Ringo announcing he farted out of the blue and everyone else just goes on about their business.

I never did get Yoko's screeching, was that her own thing or is that some sort of artful thing from her culture she brought to rock music? The B52's sure seem to pick up on it later...

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: ds1984 ()
Date: December 1, 2021 22:44

Quote
kovach
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
NilsHolgersson
Quote
Stoneage
The Stones win on longevity though. 59-7!

But in the long run people will only remember the 60s stuff by both bands so it doesn't really matter

Don't think that's true...up through 81 they were big recording act in addition to touring. The 70s was a huge Stones decade.

Sticky Fingers, Exile, Some Girls were all huge in the 70s, and Tattoo You in the 80's.

The BIG four : Brown Sugar - Angie - Miss You - Start Me Up.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: CindyC ()
Date: December 1, 2021 22:47

Quote
kovach
out their business.

I never did get Yoko's screeching, was that her own thing or is that some sort of artful thing from her culture she brought to rock music? The B52's sure seem to pick up on it later...


It’s n ancient form of aural torture.

Wasn't looking too good, but I was feeling real well.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: December 1, 2021 22:55

It's the "look at me" part from Shattered

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 1, 2021 23:53

Quote
Nikkei
It's the "look at me" part from Shattered

thought that was from 'state of schlock'?

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: December 2, 2021 02:11

According to Peter Jackson, a lot of it was filmed without their knowledge. I knew some conversations like the Paul and John one they didn't know about, but apparently they'd press record, cover the camera's red light and then walk away, so the Beatles would think they weren't filmed. A lot more candid moments came from that apparently.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: December 2, 2021 02:18

Quote
Paddy
I decided to watch the anthology series again. It’s been years since I’ve seen it.

I did that earlier in the pandemic. Its truly excellent, I hadn't seen it in forever. They really did a phenomenal job with it, what a monumental task. Its funny, I just went back to the last part of it after this documentary (the last part is the White Album, Let It Be and Abbey Road) and by comparison it feels like such a rush. But the Anthology is a great piece on its own.

Another really great thing to check out is Ron Howard's Touring Years doc. That too showed between 1962 and 1966, these guys didn't have a @#$%& day off! Its truly amazing how almost every facet of their career is pretty throughly documented at this point, given the time period where that wasn't common. Maybe with the exception of Sgt. Peppers. The Anthology seemed to collect everything we thought they might not have had.

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