Tell Me :  Talk
Talk about your favorite band. 

Previous page Next page First page IORR home

For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.

Goto Page: PreviousFirst...155156157158159160161162163164165Next
Current Page: 164 of 165
Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Date: February 18, 2021 10:12

I thought you meant stillborn, too, Georgie smiling smiley

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 18, 2021 13:01

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I thought you meant stillborn, too, Georgie smiling smiley

A lesson learned for me winking smiley
I should have written " ... born still in 1941". Or possibly it can be written in yet another way. I learned over the many decades, but a lot already in 1971 while I was living there, that English has a huge selection of words (many more than for instance Dutch), even making things difficult sometimes for authentic Brits winking smiley

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: February 18, 2021 13:32

Quote
georgie48

A child was apparently born still in 1941 ...

Can I suggest the following wording?

"Nevertheless, the child was apparently born in 1941".

Hope that's right and it helps.

It seems to be classy research into John Ono Lennon's obscure relatives, and now perhaps you can help the rest of us by establishing how all of this is linked to Brian Jones of Cheltenham who was the primary founding member of The Rolling Stones.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 18, 2021 14:05

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
georgie48

A child was apparently born still in 1941 ...

Can I suggest the following wording?

"Nevertheless, the child was apparently born in 1941".

Hope that's right and it helps.

It seems to be classy research into John Ono Lennon's obscure relatives, and now perhaps you can help the rest of us by establishing how all of this is linked to Brian Jones of Cheltenham who was the primary founding member of The Rolling Stones.

Thanks CC!

I wasn't in any way digging into the history of John's obscure relatives to start with, but well, here we are. In a previous mail I wrote that part of my "research" activities was to avoid getting anyone I treasure into trouble. Some people on this site could be ones who could create problems because of selfish reasons. I'm very much aware of that.
Actually I am grateful to Kingbeefuzz, that he moved the subject from Beatles vs Stones to this one, because it helped me to make progress that otherwise maybe would not have happened.
I am currently, since the beginning of this week, patiently waiting for mail input from British governmental people to help me move forward. I was told (through phone tape) that the current corona regulations have put limitations to the amount of work they can do, so patience is required. Believe me, I'm just as exited as several of you, who understand that this all is not sensationally driven.
For one maybe 2000LYFH (or Irix) would be able to figure out some more details in the 1941 journey of the Llangibby Castle ship from Suez, via Cape Town and Trinidad, to Glasgow, like a list of passengers on that long journey. It could tell me a lot.
To Irix: the other day I contacted a former chairman of a Dutch Beatles fanclub to see if he can help me to read the book "John Lennon's letters" to see if it has any details I'm looking for. In all honesty, I don't think it has (John was not really into exact figures, right?), but I have to in order not to miss anything.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 18, 2021 23:30

Quote
georgie48

To Irix: the other day I contacted a former chairman of a Dutch Beatles fanclub to see if he can help me to read the book "John Lennon's letters" to see if it has any details I'm looking for. In all honesty, I don't think it has (John was not really into exact figures, right?), but I have to in order not to miss anything.

There're not much details about John's aunt Harriet, I had the most important data already posted here. I don't own this book, I've read the appropriate sections only via 'Look inside' on [www.Amazon.co.uk] and via the Google Books preview. The Kindle-Edition is just £3.99 and can also be read on many other devices - [www.Amazon.co.uk] .


The Llangibby Castle ship - British Troop transport WWII - [www.BritishArmedForces.org] . Voyage 1941: 10-Aug-41 Suez, 12-Sep-41 Cape Town, 1-Oct-41 Trinidad, Glasgow 22-Oct-41 - [www.Bandcstaffregister.com] .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-19 00:15 by Irix.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 19, 2021 00:45

Quote
georgie48

A child was apparently born in 1941 ...

If it was in 1941 when the child was born - let's say latest end of December 1941 - then the "incident" must have been 9 months before in March 1941. Looks like at that point Harriet & Liela were still in Cairo ....

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: February 19, 2021 00:53

Quote
Irix
Quote
georgie48

To Irix: the other day I contacted a former chairman of a Dutch Beatles fanclub to see if he can help me to read the book "John Lennon's letters" to see if it has any details I'm looking for. In all honesty, I don't think it has (John was not really into exact figures, right?), but I have to in order not to miss anything.

There're not much details about John's aunt Harriet, I had the most important data already posted here. I don't own this book, I've read the appropriate sections only via 'Look inside' on [www.Amazon.co.uk] and via the Google Books preview. The Kindle-Edition is just £3.99 and can also be read on many other devices - [www.Amazon.co.uk] .

I have the Lennon Letters book.

What *precisely* is being sought in it?

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: February 19, 2021 06:05

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
georgie48
Not yet, Irix.
This NN Harvey appears to be Liela's husband?

Were there any exact dates (day/month) mentioned on the events, like when Hafez died and when the troop ship left from Egypt to England and when it arrived in Lennon's Letters? I doubt it. Maybe it's possible to trace those dates back (war documents?). I'll give it a shot anyway.


Record of Harriet and Lila (4 years old) returning from Egypt. Their Proposed address in the UK is 241 Menlove Ave, Liverpool. They are in 2nd class and have an Egyptian passport. Harriet is listed as a widow...


Name: Harriet Hafez
Arrival Age: 25
Birth Date: 1916
Port of Departure: Suez, Egypt
Arrival Date: 22 Oct 1941
Port of Arrival: Glasgow, Scotland
Ports of Voyage: Suez; Cape Town and Trinidad
Ship Name: Llangibby Castle
Shipping Line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 161329
Household Members



Actual 1941 ship log of Harriet and Lila. Also three other passenger entries.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-19 19:10 by 2000 LYFH.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 19, 2021 10:47

Thanks Irix, CaptainCorella and 2000LYFH !!!

Based on your info Irix, any "incident" must indeed have happened in Cairo and my guess is around January 1941. I also looked at the list of Masters of the Llangibby Castle and surprise ... no Master name is mentioned from 12/1940 till 11/1941 ?!?

And CC, is anything written about when Ali B. Hafez died? Apperently an accident (war related, car related?) And anything on Harriet during the remaining period in Cairo before she left for the UK on August 10, 1941?

And 2000LYFH, the image that you added is crashed on my screen. You mention three other passengers (maybe just as easy to write them down?) ? But a list of army men is not available?

Great reseach!
thumbs upthumbs upthumbs up

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 19, 2021 11:45

Quote
georgie48

is anything written about when Ali B. Hafez died? Apperently an accident (war related, car related?)

A medical accident - sepsis after a routine tooth extraction - [www.Amazon.co.uk] . No date mentioned.

Ali B. Hafez passed away in 1939 - [www.myHeritage.com] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-19 11:55 by Irix.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: February 19, 2021 11:49

Quote
georgie48

And CC, is anything written about when Ali B. Hafez died? Apperently an accident (war related, car related?) And anything on Harriet during the remaining period in Cairo before she left for the UK on August 10, 1941?


It's a sizeable book - 390 pages.

Before I set about this you'll have to tell me, or remind me, where this is all leading.

How will this investigation of Lennon's ancestry determine any link to Brian Jones?

Clear answer please.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 19, 2021 12:00

Quote
CaptainCorella

where this is all leading

Could be a similar story like John Lennon's half-sister Victoria/Ingrid from a Welsh soldier - [en.Wikipedia.org] . In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of Brian Jones ....

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 19, 2021 12:29

Quote
Irix
Quote
CaptainCorella

where this is all leading

Could be a similar story like John Lennon's half-sister Victoria/Ingrid from a Welsh soldier - [en.Wikipedia.org] . In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of Brian Jones ....

winking smiley

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 19, 2021 12:40

Quote
georgie48

any "incident" must indeed have happened in Cairo and my guess is around January 1941

If the "incident" was end of 1940 or early 1941 and Harriet & Liela arrived on 22-Oct-1941 in Glasgow via the Llangibby Castle ship and with Egyptian passports then there could/must have been British entry documents about 3 people (1 mother with 2 children) ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-19 12:55 by Irix.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 19, 2021 12:44

Quote
Irix
Quote
georgie48

any "incident" must indeed have happened in Cairo and my guess is around January 1941

If the "incident" was in early 1941 and Harriet & Liela arrived on 22-Oct-1941 in Glasgow via the Llangibby Castle ship and with Egyptian passports then there could/must have been British entry documents about 3 people (1 mother with 2 children) ....

Not necessarily Irix!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-19 12:47 by georgie48.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 19, 2021 13:00

Google finds nothing about that Harriet (Stanley/Hafez/Birch) had in total 3 children ....

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 19, 2021 13:10

Quote
Irix
Google finds nothing about that Harriet (Stanley/Hafez/Birch) had in total 3 children ....

I know. How many mothers, for whatever reason, have never registered a child they didn't (or couldn't) want? There are so many children (and adults) in this world that live with a deep pain because they have been rejected by their legitimate mother (or father for that matter).

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: February 19, 2021 20:15

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
georgie48
Not yet, Irix.
This NN Harvey appears to be Liela's husband?

Were there any exact dates (day/month) mentioned on the events, like when Hafez died and when the troop ship left from Egypt to England and when it arrived in Lennon's Letters? I doubt it. Maybe it's possible to trace those dates back (war documents?). I'll give it a shot anyway.


Record of Harriet and Lila (4 years old) returning from Egypt. Their Proposed address in the UK is 241 Menlove Ave, Liverpool. They are in 2nd class and have an Egyptian passport. Harriet is listed as a widow...


Name: Harriet Hafez
Arrival Age: 25
Birth Date: 1916
Port of Departure: Suez, Egypt
Arrival Date: 22 Oct 1941
Port of Arrival: Glasgow, Scotland
Ports of Voyage: Suez; Cape Town and Trinidad
Ship Name: Llangibby Castle
Shipping Line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 161329
Household Members



Actual 1941 ship log of Harriet and Lila. Also three other passenger entries.






<First half of passenger list - more to come>

If you see someone of interest let me know and will add more info:

Joseph Clark
Edward Cashman
John Pearson Carr
Thomas Chandler
William Callacher
Harold John Butler
Robert Butterworth
Daniel Buffy
James Byrne
William George Brown
Robert William Brinhald
Eric Gordon Bode
James Boyle
James robert Bristow
Charles Wright
John Vivian Williams
David Farrington Whichello
Nora Mary Wells
James Cairan Wilson
William Henry Williams
Walter John Williams
Charles Henry Webb
William Henry Ward
Phyllis Margaret Walker
Ernest Walker
Poter Webster
Thomas Traynor
Francis Tyrrell
Leslie Andrew Thomas
Angus Cook Stewart
Leslie Vincent Stelfox
Alexander Smith
David Christian Smith
William Smith
William Bilton
Francis Mervyn Bell
Dirk Dutch Van Bergem
Harry Slater
Robert Slee
David William Scutt
Jack Rose
Mrs Zerphee Rogers
Thomas Roberts
Lily Rider
Daniel Ralph
Ernest Rider
John Rankin
William Ranger
Basil William Prentice
Henry James Prince
Owen Pritchard
George William Peterson
John Peterson
Johnie Paterson
Pery Osborne
Henry Park
Henry O'Neill
Austin Edward Moss
Frank Edward Morse
John Morrow
Eugene Baker
Thomas Bankier
George Barley
Alexander McIntosh
Edward McCarthy
Ian Smibert McMillan
Murdo McLennan
Duncan McPhee
Lionel McCann
Robert McGuire
Richard McLauchlin
Edward McDonald
Duncan McKenzie
Charles McLeod
Angus McKechnie
Alexander McLeod
John James Marshall

<second half>

Robert Marshall
Pedro Juan Manuell
Clifford Manley
Harry Martin
William Mannion
Frederick Robert Lockwood
Albert Edward Liddemore
Mr Mellie Eileen Limont
Mr Mildred Amy Lishman
David Samuel Leyshon
Bertha Kneeshaw
George Kneeshaw
Cecil Verdon Knight
Helena Krauss
George Kneeshaw
Stewart Roland Kennedy
Patrick Joyce
Percy Charles Johns
John Perry Jones
Leslie Arthur Hurst
Joseph Jacobs
Mrs Joan Irving
Vincent Henry House
Mr Gers Melanie Hoyle
Henry Norbert Horrocks
Edward cade Hughes
Frank Hilton
Miss Glenys Eve Henstock

Harriet Hafez
Lila Hafez

Bernard Greavey
Miss Isabel Gilliland
James Gentle
Mrs Cecilia Gerrish
Vincent Feneck
Thomas Ferguson
Mr Doreen gertrude Farley
Miss Catherine gemma Ellis
Joseph William Eaton
Mr Violet Mary Domville
Robert Dolley
Voui Hsin Djou
Robert Dale
Gordon Dickson
Henry Davies
David Davies
John Deakin
Adrian Bernard Dees
Joseph Anthony Delinares
Frederick Dalton
Joseph Redmond Allan
Miclolckis Anastassiades
Mrs Helen Allan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-20 02:17 by 2000 LYFH.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 19, 2021 21:44

Hi 2000LYFH!

This is an amazing piece of work you did! Highly appreciated!!!
Unfortunately none of the names on this part of your list ring a bell. The three passengers you mentioned seperately, were they among these names?
Who knows, maybe the second part of your list?
It's is still possible that the one I look for stayed behind in Cairo at that time, but don`t worry about that, I've have filed a request at a governmental institute. It's an entry from a different angle.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: February 19, 2021 22:23

Quote
Irix
Quote
CaptainCorella

where this is all leading

Could be a similar story like John Lennon's half-sister Victoria/Ingrid from a Welsh soldier - [en.Wikipedia.org] . In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of Brian Jones ....

This is darned weird!

Anyone could equally have written.....

"In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of Paul McCartney...."

or

"In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of Ian Stewart...."

or

"In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of BV...."

or

" In case of Harriet (Stanley/Hafez) the yet unknown father could be a relative of the family of Joe Biden..."

And of course, a fundamentalist would argue that we're all related if you go back to Adam and Eve.

Unless someone comes up with something SUBSTANTIVE that's driving this, it's pointless hunting for a needle in a haystack when you don't even have any evidence that there was ever a needle!

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 19, 2021 23:20

IF by chance you track down any of these
relatives that are still alive can you please
ask them if they know anything about when the new Stones album will be out ...



ROCKMAN

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 20, 2021 00:26

Quote
Rockman
IF by chance you track down any of these
relatives that are still alive can you please
ask them if they know anything about when the new Stones album will be out ...

Post of the week, Rockman. And the Captain is right, too.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 20, 2021 01:05

Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
Rockman
IF by chance you track down any of these
relatives that are still alive can you please
ask them if they know anything about when the new Stones album will be out ...

Post of the week, Rockman. And the Captain is right, too.

Good to see you’re still around on this thread Elmo. Patience is a tough cookie, just keep hanging around. You’ll manage winking smiley

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: February 20, 2021 03:13

Quote
georgie48
Hi 2000LYFH!

This is an amazing piece of work you did! Highly appreciated!!!
Unfortunately none of the names on this part of your list ring a bell. The three passengers you mentioned seperately, were they among these names?
Who knows, maybe the second part of your list?
It's is still possible that the one I look for stayed behind in Cairo at that time, but don`t worry about that, I've have filed a request at a governmental institute. It's an entry from a different angle.

Hi georgie48

Added more passengers. You still can't see the picture? Wonder if anyone else can?

The other passengers on same page are:

Helena Krauss : age 27, wife of Polish soldier

Voui Hsin Djou : age 38, distressed seaman
Dirk Dutch Van Bergem : age 37, distressed seaman

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 20, 2021 08:34

Thanks once again 2000LYFH!
I now have three names I can work on.
I didn’t get an image, but I realised that it’s better this way for privacy of the names. I keep in touch!

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: February 20, 2021 12:20

Quote
georgie48

I now have three names I can work on.

So, John Perry Jones could be a relative of Elias Phillips Jones (1865–1937), father of Lewis Blount Jones (1917–2009) and grandfather of Brian Jones?

Btw: I can't see that picture from the passenger list too and maybe it's better to remove the uninvolved names of the passenger list due to privacy reasons. Let them rest in peace.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: February 20, 2021 13:16

Quote
Irix
Quote
georgie48

I now have three names I can work on.

So, John Perry Jones could be a relative of Elias Phillips Jones (1865–1937), father of Lewis Blount Jones (1917–2009) and grandfather of Brian Jones?

Btw: I can't see that picture from the passenger list too and maybe it's better to remove the uninvolved names of the passenger list due to privacy reasons. Let them rest in peace.

Worth pointing out that BY FAR the most common Welsh surname is ... JONES.

ie Just because they have the same surname does not really even imply that they were related. See [www.familysearch.org]) where it cites 13.84% which is a staggering proportion of the population.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 20, 2021 13:35

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Irix
Quote
georgie48

I now have three names I can work on.

So, John Perry Jones could be a relative of Elias Phillips Jones (1865–1937), father of Lewis Blount Jones (1917–2009) and grandfather of Brian Jones?

Btw: I can't see that picture from the passenger list too and maybe it's better to remove the uninvolved names of the passenger list due to privacy reasons. Let them rest in peace.

Worth pointing out that BY FAR the most common Welsh surname is ... JONES.

ie Just because they have the same surname does not really even imply that they were related. See [www.familysearch.org]) where it cites 13.84% which is a staggering proportion of the population.

Hi CC,
As you maybe know, I lived in the UK for some time and I know some things about your great country. Also that Jones, like Smith, etc. are names that are high on the most popular surnames lists. Quite some famous Jones's in the entertainment world too. But .... so what? What worries you? If I hit the wall, it's not your pain, right? Where is your positive spirit? You're a Rolling Stones fan, so it must be around somewhere winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-20 13:38 by georgie48.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: February 20, 2021 17:02

Quote
Irix
Quote
georgie48

I now have three names I can work on.

So, John Perry Jones could be a relative of Elias Phillips Jones (1865–1937), father of Lewis Blount Jones (1917–2009) and grandfather of Brian Jones?

Btw: I can't see that picture from the passenger list too and maybe it's better to remove the uninvolved names of the passenger list due to privacy reasons. Let them rest in peace.

Hi Irix,
We are reaching a sensitive stage. I will temporarily add my email address under my alias, so we can communicate in such a way that nobody get "hurt". When 2000LYFH is online I'll do the same for him. If you don't like it, let me know.

Re: Lennon knew about Jones ?????
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: February 20, 2021 19:13

is this interesting or not i can't tell

Goto Page: PreviousFirst...155156157158159160161162163164165Next
Current Page: 164 of 165


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Online Users

Guests: 661
Record Number of Users: 184 on May 17, 2018 22:46
Record Number of Guests: 4101 on December 24, 2020 10:57

Previous page Next page First page IORR home