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Re: Beatles alternate timeline book
Posted by: pmk251 ()
Date: January 6, 2018 21:02

Why leave out 1970? Especially Lennon's POB? It's one of the most powerful and beautiful albums ever released. I heard or read somewhere (a long time ago) that if you wanted the next Beatles record, just combine their solo records because that was how they were recording at the end. I tried it and could not get it to work. "McCartney", Harrison's "ATMP" and Lennon's "POB" are such divergent works. The track transitions are too startling. Besides, I remember little I wanted to include from "McCartney" and the song balance was off.

Re: Beatles alternate timeline book
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: January 6, 2018 21:22

Quote
pmk251
Why leave out 1970? Especially Lennon's POB? It's one of the most powerful and beautiful albums ever released. I heard or read somewhere (a long time ago) that if you wanted the next Beatles record, just combine their solo records because that was how they were recording at the end. I tried it and could not get it to work. "McCartney", Harrison's "ATMP" and Lennon's "POB" are such divergent works. The track transitions are too startling. Besides, I remember little I wanted to include from "McCartney" and the song balance was off.

Agreed with all of that. Plastic Ono Band is arguably the best post Beatle album. Its so god damn good. Having said that, All Things Must Pass is phenomenal. Maybe those two are equally brilliant. McCartney, maybe got closest with Band On The Run, but I never thought he put out anything even close solo. At least in terms of a full cohesive album. In general, that first McCartney album, while I've grown to love it, is remarkably unremarkable. I get that thats kind of the point: go back to a roots kind of place and just record stuff without much fanfare. My issue with that is Maybe I'm Amazed is a genuinely phenomenal song. It sticks out like a sore thumb on that record. I'm still of the opinion thats ALL he had and then he built an album around that and filled it with less good songs. And I say that as a big fan of Every Night, Junk, Man We Was Lonely. But come on, Maybe I'm Amazed is a masterpiece and a fully realized song on an album of demos.

Plastic Ono Band and All Things Must Pass are so incredibly good though. Just felt that had to be said again. Having said THAT, Harrison, my favorite Beatle, blew his load with that one and never put out a studio album remotely close to that again. Lennon, IMO, had by far the most consistent solo career. I like all 6 of his solo albums a ton, even if they did get slightly worse with each one. But again, because he set the bar so high with POB, Imagine is a notch less, Mind Games a notch less than that, etc. But all very solid albums. McCartney's best solo output is arguably Wings Over America, and thats basically cause its a greatest hits album. The Beatles broke up at the right time.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: January 6, 2018 22:21

For what it's worth I consider Plastic Ono Band to be the manifesto of life. That's how high regard I have for this LP. All Things Must Pass is also on par and nearly as powerful. The 2 best solo Beatle works for me. For my taste I love Paul's Ram, Band On The Run and then McCartney as his best. Poor Ringo hasn't really moved me as a solo artist but I love him just the same and he is an amazing drummer in my opinion. Even without massive and great long solos like john Bonham, Keith Moon and Neal Pert who I also hold in high esteem. Though I would have loved The Beatles to continue as The Stones maybe we're lucky they stopped where they did and left an unbeatable legacy. Again this is my opinion, though I'm also a huge Stones Fan!

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: January 6, 2018 22:27

Ram is a personal favorite of mine. Too Many People, Back Seat Of My Car, Eat At Home are all really great songs. The album has my personal favorite McCartney song which is Smile Away which is just pure rocking silliness. I love it. Even Long Haired Lady and Uncle Albert are pretty great in their own right. I just never want to list it as a "great" album cause its a weird mishmash of stuff that I just happen to like. Its not traditionally a great album IMO.

As poor as Ringo was, his 1973 album Ringo with all the guest is a masterpiece record. I know its not him cause its all written by others for him, but thats the best he ever got that method to work and it ended up being a phenomenal record in its own right. I still play it regularly. Richard Perry at his producing best fresh from Nilsson.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: January 6, 2018 22:33

Yes "Ringo" is something of a masterpiece though I personally fail to acknowledge it myself I realize others love it. To that I say keep on keeping on, and to borrow Keef's "gold rings on you".

Re: Beatles alternate timeline book
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 6, 2018 23:15

Quote
dave9199
Quote
Irix

D1 - Goodnight Vienna (R. Starkey & J. Lennon)

Goodnight Vienna is by Lennon only.

Then Wikipedia lies .... winking smiley

"Single by Ringo Starr from the album Goodnight Vienna [...] The composition was the second of five Lennon songs to be offered for inclusion on Starr's solo albums [...] Also released as a single, the single version is a medley combination of "(It's All Down to) Goodnight Vienna" and "Goodnight Vienna (reprise)". The single was released in the US on 2 June 1975." -- [en.Wikipedia.org]

With the names I mean the performers, not the writers.

Re: Beatles alternate timeline book
Posted by: dave9199 ()
Date: January 6, 2018 23:31

Quote
pmk251
Why leave out 1970? Especially Lennon's POB?

The reason POB is left out (aside from Working Class Hero) is I felt the story would only have worked if they were also putting out solo albums at the same time. Therefore I had to leave some songs and complete albums alone. Ram I didn't take anything from and I only used four songs from All Things Must Pass. I picked songs I knew the band had already worked on previously. In the book, Harrison still puts out an album in late 1970 but it's got a different title. I tried to keep as many actual events while shoe-horning in the story around them. It was all personal choice as to which songs I liked best but the 1974 album was harder because I wanted to listen to these albums. There wasn't a song on Ringo's Goodnight Vienna I cared to have on there, hence he didn't write for that album. I explain why stuff like that "happens" in the book.

Re: Beatles alternate timeline book
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 7, 2018 02:48

Quote
Irix
From the Book (p. 180) -- "The Green Album" :



A1 - All Things Must Pass (G. Harrison)
A2 - It Don’t Come Easy (R. Starkey)
A3 - Isn’t It A Pity (G. Harrison)
A4 - Maybe I’m Amazed (P. McCartney)
A5 - Instant Karma (J. Lennon)

B1 - Back Off Boogaloo (R. Starkey)
B2 - My Love (P. McCartney)
B3 - Jealous Guy (J. Lennon)
B4 - Living In The Material World (G. Harrison)
B5 - Imagine (J. Lennon)

C1 - Photograph (R. Starkey & G. Harrison)
C2 - Mind Games (J. Lennon)
C3 - Jet (P. McCartney)
C4 - Don't Let Me Wait Too Long (G. Harrison)
C5 - Band On The Run (P. McCartney)

D1 - Goodnight Vienna (R. Starkey & J. Lennon)
D2 - Helen Wheels (P. McCartney)
D3 - So Sad (G. Harrison)
D4 - Whatever Gets You Thru The Night (J. Lennon)
D5 - Junior's Farm (P. McCartney)


(Names = Performers)

It's certainly an interesting enough topic to speculate on.

But, a few things...

Some of their best solo work was a result of circumstance, like Lennon's Whatever Gets You Through The Night -- all about his drunken, carousing days in Los Angeles. Had he stayed in London in those years, it wouldn't have been written. And,... Elton John played piano on that track.

McCartney's My Love -- 50 to 60% of that song is the solo in the middle, played by Henry McCullough on the spur of the moment, a moment that never would have happened otherwise.

All Things Must Pass, the song... There are some 107 takes among the January 1969 Get Back sessions. The band never got the hang of the song, and Lennon treated it as a joke, just vamping away on keyboards like a comedian.

It Don't Come Easy was written by George Harrison (originally You Gotta Pay Your Dues), who plays guitar on Ringo's version. George wrote it first for Badfinger, who turned it down [they are singing backing vocals in this George Harrison demo]: [www.youtube.com]

Jealous Guy was already written in India in 1968 with another title and lyrics, so that could have happened as well.

Maybe I'm Amazed as well, which would have sounded far better with Ringo's stronger, more steady drums. I've always thought of that song as the blueprint for other 70s piano-based artists like Elton John.

Band On The Run never would have happened -- it was about being on the run, which Wings were at the time playing all over the place to establish themselves and even going to Africa to record. The Beatles weren't on the run at all, not since 1966. Maybe it would otherwise have been Band On The Roof.

The most important thing to consider about all these solo records is that they have other musicians on them, different production, etc. Who knows how these would have sounded otherwise? For Instant Karma, 80% of the song is the drums and the reverb around the kit. The drums are the groove and guitar soloing all in one. As a Beatles track, it might have not had the same dynamics.

That's the thing about their solo work, it freed them up from their traditional arrangements -- like Lennon stripping it all bare for Plastic Ono Band.

I agree that they could have made good music together throughout the next decade, but it never would have had the same impact, not as middle age crept in. Instead of being sought after by Saturday Night Live, they might have been satired instead.

Better to be retired than satired, especially such an iconic musical force like the Beatles. Together or solo, there's still more great stuff than one could ever get through in a single day.

Re: Beatles alternate timeline book
Posted by: dave9199 ()
Date: January 7, 2018 03:50

Quote
stonehearted
Band On The Roof.

HA! That's hilarious!

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: dave9199 ()
Date: January 7, 2018 15:07

I'm bummed that this thread is now buried in a bigger thread. I don't think as many people will know about the book download.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 7, 2018 15:40

Quote
dave9199

I don't think as many people will know about the book download.

Now they will .... smiling smiley




New Book by David Parent: "Band On The Run: The Beatles in the 1970's - an alternative Timeline"

Free PDF-Download: [iorr.org] .

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: dave9199 ()
Date: January 7, 2018 15:56

Thanks Irix!

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: dave9199 ()
Date: January 7, 2018 15:57

Download link on page 112.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 7, 2018 17:55

There were btw already ideas by others for an "Green Album" as well as an "Orange Album":


The Beatles 1970-1974:

Disc1: [www.YouTube.com]
Disc2: [www.YouTube.com]

Another idea of the 1971-1974 Album: [www.Freecovers.net]


The Beatles 1975-1981:

Disc1: [www.YouTube.com]
Disc2: [www.YouTube.com]


Questions to dave9199:

What Tracks would you consider for an "Orange Album 1975-1980" ?

Would you include there John's Tracks from 'Milk and Honey' (since they were rough recorded Aug-Dec 1980) ?

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: dave9199 ()
Date: January 7, 2018 20:03

I've seen those other albums when I was putting the book together. The reason I picked green, aside from liking it, is I work in printing and the main colors are red, green & blue. A 1975 - 1980 comp not for me to tackle. I can't envision them past 1975. I feel that by 1975 the quality of songs was far too low to even try to do 1975-1980. I also don't know that period as well. I will say yes I would include songs from Milk & Honey on it for anyone who would do it.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 7, 2018 21:40

Quote
dave9199

I will say yes I would include songs from Milk & Honey on it for anyone who would do it.

Thanks for the reply. I would it include too ....

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: January 10, 2018 20:32



Mojo Magazine #291 (February 2018)

"APRIL 2018 & BEYOND

The rumours are that Apple and Universal will reissue a 50th anniversary edition of ‘The Beatles‘ aka The White Album this year. The 50th anniversary is in November so if this happens, it won’t be a summer release like last year’s Sgt. Pepper. Expect ‘Esher demos’, outtakes and more, although a 5.1 mix of the entire double album doesn’t seem very likely…"

[www.superdeluxeedition.com]

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: DrPete ()
Date: January 10, 2018 22:52

This is awesome news. I guess we have to wait till 1969 to have the Let It Be movie Finally released

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: January 11, 2018 01:37

Would love like a 6 disc box of The White Album. That would be extremely fascinating.

As for Let It Be, I feel its unlikely we'll get that movie. I just saw it recently and its good, and not necessarily as bad as people paint it, but you still question whether they should have had cameras in there at all. Its a rough time and its a very honest take of musicians working on music. So I would think to keep some distance and keep the sort of mystical "all for one" attitude alive they'll probably still shelve it but who knows.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 11, 2018 01:40

Quote
DrPete
This is awesome news. I guess we have to wait till 1969 to have the Let It Be movie Finally released

I'm sure 1969 will be a very good year for music. smiling smiley

But seriously, with Paul at the helm I'm sure he'll edit things a bit so he doesn't look bad, like the row with George that was caught on camera.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: DrPete ()
Date: January 11, 2018 03:17

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
DrPete
This is awesome news. I guess we have to wait till 1969 to have the Let It Be movie Finally released

I'm sure 1969 will be a very good year for music. smiling smiley

But seriously, with Paul at the helm I'm sure he'll edit things a bit so he doesn't look bad, like the row with George that was caught on camera.
Funny thing is, I've watched this ROW between them dozens of time and really just don't see how controversial it was. I have had worse rows with my family and friends weekly for my entire life, lol. Yes 2019 Ha



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-11 03:20 by DrPete.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 11, 2018 03:42

Quote
DrPete
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
DrPete
This is awesome news. I guess we have to wait till 1969 to have the Let It Be movie Finally released

I'm sure 1969 will be a very good year for music. smiling smiley

But seriously, with Paul at the helm I'm sure he'll edit things a bit so he doesn't look bad, like the row with George that was caught on camera.
Funny thing is, I've watched this ROW between them dozens of time and really just don't see how controversial it was. I have had worse rows with my family and friends weekly for my entire life, lol. Yes 2019 Ha

Yes it seems to be some very minor squabbling amongst band members. My older brother and I used to get in wrestling matches and fistfights all the time while growing up.
He kicked my ass every time until I turned 18 which is when I knocked out one of his front teeth with a gnarly right hook. Thankfully (for his sake), that was he last time he ever tried to start a fight with me!

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 11, 2018 03:57

Quote
Hairball
Quote
DrPete
Quote
stonehearted
Quote
DrPete
This is awesome news. I guess we have to wait till 1969 to have the Let It Be movie Finally released

I'm sure 1969 will be a very good year for music. smiling smiley

But seriously, with Paul at the helm I'm sure he'll edit things a bit so he doesn't look bad, like the row with George that was caught on camera.
Funny thing is, I've watched this ROW between them dozens of time and really just don't see how controversial it was. I have had worse rows with my family and friends weekly for my entire life, lol. Yes 2019 Ha

Yes it seems to be some very minor squabbling amongst band members.

Sure, but these were Post-War English band members, and it was something they always went back to during interviews in subsequent years. It seemed to represent one of those key moments when the bubble was starting to burst on their "We're all in this together" brand of friendship and camaraderie.

I have the bootleg DVD, and as I recall Paul's reaction is really quite strong, imploring George that he was only trying to help him, but you can sense Paul's embarrassment because he knew this was being filmed as it was going on. In those days of good behavior and decorum, a moment like that really was a bit like being caught with one's pants down.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 11, 2018 04:23

I also have the boot dvd, but haven't watched in quite awhile. They used to show it on cable tv all the time in the early '80's - back when it was the Z channel or whatever.
I recall George coming across as whiney during a certain part- maybe that's the part you're referring to...I think it's when he's squabbling with Paul over what guitar part to play?
I might watch it again tonight!

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 11, 2018 04:43

Yes, Paul wants him to play something and to reinforce his point he recalls how George wanted to play accenting guitar lines in Hey Jude, and here is a clip of that moment: [www.youtube.com]

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: January 11, 2018 05:03

Quote
stonehearted
Yes, Paul wants him to play something and to reinforce his point he recalls how George wanted to play accenting guitar lines in Hey Jude, and here is a clip of that moment: [www.youtube.com]

Everyone seems to believe that Let It Be is a boring crap film about the breakup of The Beatles. I do not share that view.

About 4 years back I got a really really good DVD copy (probably taken from the rare Laserdisc release) and sat and watched it with low expectations.

I reckon that it's good and that the bad/embarrassing bits are fewer and further between that most folk reckon.

The rooftop concert is sublime!

IMHO when (!) it's released they should release the original cut 'as is' and have the fully uncut rooftop concert as the extra. It'd fly off the $helve$.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-11 05:35 by CaptainCorella.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 11, 2018 05:18

Quote
stonehearted
Yes, Paul wants him to play something and to reinforce his point he recalls how George wanted to play accenting guitar lines in Hey Jude, and here is a clip of that moment: [www.youtube.com]

Yeah that might be the part, but George doesn't come across as whiney there as I remembered it but rather appeasing to Paul..."I'll play whatever you want, or I won't play at all...whatever it is that will please you, I'll do it".
Maybe I'm confusing that part with another, but I think there might be another part in the film where George is a bit miffed at the entire situation, or maybe it's further along in that clip, or maybe I'm just not remembering it right - will have to watch it again!

____________________________________________________

EDIT: Found this via wiki - this might be the part I've been thinking of:

Let it Be

"Matters came to a head on 6 January, when Harrison had a heated argument with McCartney during a rehearsal of "Two of Us", which later became one of the most famous sequences in the Let It Be film".

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-11 05:32 by Hairball.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: January 11, 2018 07:00

[www.youtube.com]

Ringo "Photograph" vid w some rare stills.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: January 11, 2018 07:33

Yeah, as I said, I don't see any of it as "controversial" as many have claimed, but that key part of "I'll play whatever you want, or I won't play at all...whatever it is that will please you, I'll do it". While its incredibly interesting to watch, I do feel like we're also not supposed to be there, and certainly that they shared that opinion later in life. Its cool to be the fly on the wall, but its also at a time when maybe there shouldn't have been. Its not like anyone punched anyone, but it certainly paints certain people in poor lights, but thats just how it is being in the studio, working on a film set, etc. Its a high pressure environment, and you need that to create a good product, but you don't necessarily need it on film for everyone to see. For that reason, I don't see it coming out, but maybe I'm wrong. I like the idea of being in the studio with them. I think that was the wrong album to do it on, and when you watch it its not "bad" or "embarrassing" but I do feel there's a sense of "I shouldn't be here. This is their thing that only truly makes sense to them." Its not really sessions meant for our entertainment, which is why I see why its been held back.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 11, 2018 08:21

Quote
RollingFreak
Yeah, as I said, I don't see any of it as "controversial" as many have claimed, but that key part of "I'll play whatever you want, or I won't play at all...whatever it is that will please you, I'll do it". While its incredibly interesting to watch, I do feel like we're also not supposed to be there, and certainly that they shared that opinion later in life. Its cool to be the fly on the wall, but its also at a time when maybe there shouldn't have been. Its not like anyone punched anyone, but it certainly paints certain people in poor lights, but thats just how it is being in the studio, working on a film set, etc. Its a high pressure environment, and you need that to create a good product, but you don't necessarily need it on film for everyone to see. For that reason, I don't see it coming out, but maybe I'm wrong. I like the idea of being in the studio with them. I think that was the wrong album to do it on, and when you watch it its not "bad" or "embarrassing" but I do feel there's a sense of "I shouldn't be here. This is their thing that only truly makes sense to them." Its not really sessions meant for our entertainment, which is why I see why its been held back.

The main problem with Let It Be, the Get Back sessions that is, was the filming schedule. McCartney managed to convince the rest of the band to accommodate the filming crew, which worked on a day schedule. But in that period the band worked in the studio on a night schedule -- that's why so many of those jams sound so sluggish and tired. They weren't being captured in their peak moments. They only kick up a notch when Billy Preston shows up (which also kept them on their best behavior toward one another), and then of course the concert on the roof which is a great highlight.

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