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I think you draw the wrong conclusions here. Let's Work is an example of what could happen when Mick does a solo album and tries to reach a wider and/or different audience than Stones fans, well aware that a song like Let's Work is not suitable for the Stones. Of course he had "full control" on this one because it's a solo tune, not meant for the Stones.
England Lost - well, who knows if the arrangement we know is the original version that was meant (or not - what do we really know for sure and what is made up for the public to eat up?) for the Stones. Could very well have been a nice funky tune that was only regarded as sounding too close to, let's say Slave, Hot Stuff, Sex Drive or whatever and therefore discarded for the new Stones album and Mick just gave it a "modern" remix for a solo release. Same for Gotta Get A Grip.
Of course, the offical story could be right. But I know this business long and good enough to be careful not to buy every story at face value. And the Stones are masters in creating stories and myths to keep their fans on their feet. Always been. From the very start.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 08:24 by retired_dog.
Good post, and I agree. However, Let's Work can't have been completely tongue in cheek, as it was the leading single off the album. Too much money was invested in this to just having a laugh.
Those «Miami Vice»-rhythm was all the rage at the time, something Mick knew well, of course.
When we dig deeper into the song, though, it isn't really that bad – it's the production that is laughable, imo. That, and the chorus. The verses, and the bridge in particular, is quite good.
But the song svcks. It did back then, and it does today.
Well, okay, maybe you're right and he was more serious than I thought. Yes, the whole thing is very 80s, and let's face it, most music in the 80's was terrible. You're right that it sucks, but judging Mick's output only on Let's Work still doesn't seem fair. I mean, he also did Wandering Spirit, which a lot of people seem to like very much. I can see why, but for some reason that album doesn't work at all for me. Then again, I sort of like "England's Lost" and "Just Another Night" (not much else though). In any case, I can understand why he wanted to do something else. In my point of view doing something else and failing is still better than only repeating yourself.
Odd things happened back then - it was the bloody 80's at their darkest - so using crazy odd ideas done with tongue-in-cheek resulted as incredible hits back then (look what, say, an old hag like Phil Collins made at the time). The whole pop music wasn't very serious at all. I guess Jagger tried something like that by using his persona and status as a starting point to make something 'fun' (basically, that's nothing new: that's an art Mick had been championing since the early 70's after realizing that he is an old fart as far as the new trends go). The whole song was an odd man out in PRIMITIVE COOL (like, say, "Miss You" was in SOME GIRLS) and using that was as a leading single with that video was a huge risk. I guess they knew that using a standard rocker like "Throwaway" would have not made much difference, so they needed something carneval-like to stand out from the masses. And, as we know, they and it failed big time (and for a good reason). It could be that it was fatal for Jagger's solo career. It would be interesting to know what Mick thinks about it nowadays if he chooses to remember...
I guess these days that long time ago forgotten 80's oddity has only significance for die-hard Keith Richards fanatics like our Keithsman...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 12:46 by Doxa.
Hehe, you may be right. Perhaps he was just having a laugh at the industry and the contemporary music scene and tried to thrive off that? He knew he was regarded an old fart, though, as he points that out repeatedly in the dialogue with his child in the title track on Primitive Cool
Maybe he still got that twinkle in his eye, regarding Let's Work - as he chose to add it on his greatest hits compilation?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 12:43 by DandelionPowderman.
Lets Work symbolizes three of Micks solo albums, ( excluding WS ) it is transparent what Mick was aiming for, get inside the mind of Mick, what was he trying to achieve here and what did he learn from it.
Mick still tries to attract an audience that has no interest him.
He doesn't seem to know his audience but then again he does.
He's not Prince , he's not Bowie, nor can he ever be received by a modern genre the way those artists were in their time. It's too late and he just can't cut it on his own in that way.
He is what he is and he has achieved great success being what he is, i just don't understand why he thinks he needs to fake being something he is not.
If he were any good at trying something else he would have had success by now.
This is not using Lets Work as an excuse to have an argument against Mick, its a fact. I think Mick probably realizes this fact but something over rides it.
He totally realizes what music his fans want him to sing when he does live shows with the Stones, and he totally realized this when he played mostly Stones songs with his solo tour of Japan etc.
I am also tired of repeating myself.
He knows what makes him the 100's of millions that he has made over the years, he is fully aware of what puts bums on seats, so why go for the teeny boppers or whatever you call a young audience, it makes no sense, what is his motive.
So i hear a few of you say, " well it doesn't matter , Mick's not interested in solo success, he's just enjoying himself doing what he want's" OK good point but he's going to get bashed for it if it's disappointing to his fans like me.
I just wish he would get over himself, drop the Peter Pan complex at 75 years of age and be that god like genius that we all know him to be.
Well, yeah... I take "Let's Work" being a high risk/a high reward kind of thing. As I edited to my previous post, choosing a standard Stones-style mid-tempo rocker like "Throwaway" as the face of the album would have been an easy and non-risky choice - but they were into jackpot there; they needed something to stand out from the ordinary, something 'completely different' to make a big hit by the 80's standards. Yep, they were heading for a jackpot but were left with empty hands... That's the nasty side of taking riskies sometimes.... Mick hadn't done many since...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 13:06 by Doxa.
If he had done what you propose, he would have stuck in 1964 with covering blues artists. Or in 1967 with trying to sound like other british pop bands. Instead, both Mick and Keith always tried to change, to improve and - whether you like it or not - see what was popular at that time. This goes both for Mick *and* Keith. They both looked for influences, first in soul music, then the Beatles, then Velvet Underground, Cream, Hendrix, then later reggae, and then punk and disco. It's that, as also Dandelion pointed out, what gave us a good deal of great songs on Tattoo You for instance. And that was both Mick *and* Keith trying something new.
What has changed is that they started looking in different directions. Which is not so strange after 25 years working together. What is strange is that for 25 years (give or take) they were pretty much on the same page. A certain John and Paul only managed that for 10 years (much less actually).
Yes sorry i am being a bit harsh on Mick, no more mention of Lets Work from me.
I guess as a fan i get frustrated with Mick, and also Keith to some extent, Keith talks the talk but doesn't always walk the walk, like apart from interviews he did precious little to promoter CH as far as performance goes.
The problem for the fan is that the boys still have and had the potential to deliver great music live with that amazing back catalog of theirs, and i feel that their constant bickering and stubbornness towards each other has left Stones fans short since the early 80's as far as writing material and production is concerned. As great as they are they still under achieve imo.
I'm really interested in the forthcoming EP, it will be telling i think, like i said, its going to be great or terrible , ok it may well be in between like the previous few albums, but Crosseyed Heart gives me heart, its still there, Mick can still get the best out of Keith and Visa Versa.
Hm, my cassette sounds really great.
ROCKMAN
You could've said Can't Be Seen or Yap Yap or It Means A Lot as well...
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Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
BitchKeepsBitchin
()
Date: November 28, 2018 03:19
This thread is highjacked -
Crosseyed Heart is KEEF's best,
that's all I got.
That's the funniest line on the CD and I love the way that KEEF gives a little chuckle there.
Crosseyed Heart is KEEF's best,
that's all I got.
That's the funniest line on the CD and I love the way that KEEF gives a little chuckle there.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: November 28, 2018 08:22
Quote
keithsmanQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
keithsmanQuote
GasLightStreet
Please don't promote something that, like a Stones album , in 1986 that should've been released as a 4 track EP, should be deleted from the history of music.
Hehe, yeah that was bellow the belt
Seriously though, after that video and the TOTP and Countdown promotional live rehearsed performances of Lets Work, i knew then that no matter what Mick does from here on, it will never be quite the same, Keith must have been grinning all the way to the bank.
You bring up a point without saying it directly but perhaps Let's Work can be the pinpointing of when Mick had nothing but yes men around him. Although that does not explain the 1986 disaster, of which there were obviously yes men involved for that tragedy to be allowed to come out.
It's confusing because we get the impression that Mick was doing solo promotion when DW was being completed, he himself says in interviews that he thought the making of DW went on for too long. Its very contradictory depending to who you listen to. At the time everyone said DW was Keith's baby.
So i guess Mick is saying that the making of DW went on for so long that it merged into Micks involvement with his solo album, so Mick can be forgiven in that regard. DW really is an example of what can happen to Keith when he is given too much rope, he kind of hung himself
Lets Work is an example of what happens to Mick when he has full control. I see what you mean by yes men. England Lost is another example, my God if ever there is an examples of be careful of what you wish for.
I think you draw the wrong conclusions here. Let's Work is an example of what could happen when Mick does a solo album and tries to reach a wider and/or different audience than Stones fans, well aware that a song like Let's Work is not suitable for the Stones. Of course he had "full control" on this one because it's a solo tune, not meant for the Stones.
England Lost - well, who knows if the arrangement we know is the original version that was meant (or not - what do we really know for sure and what is made up for the public to eat up?) for the Stones. Could very well have been a nice funky tune that was only regarded as sounding too close to, let's say Slave, Hot Stuff, Sex Drive or whatever and therefore discarded for the new Stones album and Mick just gave it a "modern" remix for a solo release. Same for Gotta Get A Grip.
Of course, the offical story could be right. But I know this business long and good enough to be careful not to buy every story at face value. And the Stones are masters in creating stories and myths to keep their fans on their feet. Always been. From the very start.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 08:24 by retired_dog.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 28, 2018 11:18
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 28, 2018 11:27
Quote
matxil
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
Good post, and I agree. However, Let's Work can't have been completely tongue in cheek, as it was the leading single off the album. Too much money was invested in this to just having a laugh.
Those «Miami Vice»-rhythm was all the rage at the time, something Mick knew well, of course.
When we dig deeper into the song, though, it isn't really that bad – it's the production that is laughable, imo. That, and the chorus. The verses, and the bridge in particular, is quite good.
But the song svcks. It did back then, and it does today.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 28, 2018 11:56
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxil
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
Good post, and I agree. However, Let's Work can't have been completely tongue in cheek, as it was the leading single off the album. Too much money was invested in this to just having a laugh.
Those «Miami Vice»-rhythm was all the rage at the time, something Mick knew well, of course.
When we dig deeper into the song, though, it isn't really that bad – it's the production that is laughable, imo. That, and the chorus. The verses, and the bridge in particular, is quite good.
But the song svcks. It did back then, and it does today.
Well, okay, maybe you're right and he was more serious than I thought. Yes, the whole thing is very 80s, and let's face it, most music in the 80's was terrible. You're right that it sucks, but judging Mick's output only on Let's Work still doesn't seem fair. I mean, he also did Wandering Spirit, which a lot of people seem to like very much. I can see why, but for some reason that album doesn't work at all for me. Then again, I sort of like "England's Lost" and "Just Another Night" (not much else though). In any case, I can understand why he wanted to do something else. In my point of view doing something else and failing is still better than only repeating yourself.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 28, 2018 12:05
I love Just Another Night, even though the sounds in there get in the way of the good song at times, imo.
England Lost comes across as nearly as bad as Let's Work for me. The production doesn't bother me as much as the pale, melody-lacking, uninventive and almost childish songwriting.
I'm counting on Mick doing much better than EL and GGG in the future, be it on Stones- or solo-albums.
For pure pop-songs, I'm one of the few who actually enjoy stuff like Visions Of Paradise, Don't Call Me Up, Say You Will and Secrets. Those songs have melody, good sounds, great singing and are well-crafted songs.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 12:06 by DandelionPowderman.
England Lost comes across as nearly as bad as Let's Work for me. The production doesn't bother me as much as the pale, melody-lacking, uninventive and almost childish songwriting.
I'm counting on Mick doing much better than EL and GGG in the future, be it on Stones- or solo-albums.
For pure pop-songs, I'm one of the few who actually enjoy stuff like Visions Of Paradise, Don't Call Me Up, Say You Will and Secrets. Those songs have melody, good sounds, great singing and are well-crafted songs.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 12:06 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 28, 2018 12:36
Quote
DandelionPowderman
However, Let's Work can't have been completely tongue in cheek, as it was the leading single off the album. Too much money was invested in this to just having a laugh.
Odd things happened back then - it was the bloody 80's at their darkest - so using crazy odd ideas done with tongue-in-cheek resulted as incredible hits back then (look what, say, an old hag like Phil Collins made at the time). The whole pop music wasn't very serious at all. I guess Jagger tried something like that by using his persona and status as a starting point to make something 'fun' (basically, that's nothing new: that's an art Mick had been championing since the early 70's after realizing that he is an old fart as far as the new trends go). The whole song was an odd man out in PRIMITIVE COOL (like, say, "Miss You" was in SOME GIRLS) and using that was as a leading single with that video was a huge risk. I guess they knew that using a standard rocker like "Throwaway" would have not made much difference, so they needed something carneval-like to stand out from the masses. And, as we know, they and it failed big time (and for a good reason). It could be that it was fatal for Jagger's solo career. It would be interesting to know what Mick thinks about it nowadays if he chooses to remember...
I guess these days that long time ago forgotten 80's oddity has only significance for die-hard Keith Richards fanatics like our Keithsman...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 12:46 by Doxa.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 28, 2018 12:43
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
However, Let's Work can't have been completely tongue in cheek, as it was the leading single off the album. Too much money was invested in this to just having a laugh.
Odd things happened back then - it was the bloody 80's at their darkest - so using crazy odd ideas done with tongue-in-cheek resulted as incredible hits back then (look what, say, an old hag like Phil Collins made at the time). The whole pop music wasn't very serious at all. I guess Jagger tried something like that by using his persona and status as a starting point to make something 'fun' (basically, that's nothing new: that's an art Mick had been championing since the early 70's after realizing that he is an old fart as far as the new trends go). The whole song was an odd man out in PRIMITIVE COOL (like, say, "Miss You" was in SOME GIRLS) and using that was as a leading single with that video was a huge risk. And, as we know, it failed big time (and for a good reason). It could be that it was fatal for Jagger's solo career. It would be interesting to know what Mick thinks about it nowadays if he chooses to remember...
I guess these days that long time ago forgotten 80's oddity has only significance for die-hard Keith Richards fanatics like our Keithsman...
- Doxa
Hehe, you may be right. Perhaps he was just having a laugh at the industry and the contemporary music scene and tried to thrive off that? He knew he was regarded an old fart, though, as he points that out repeatedly in the dialogue with his child in the title track on Primitive Cool
Maybe he still got that twinkle in his eye, regarding Let's Work - as he chose to add it on his greatest hits compilation?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 12:43 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: November 28, 2018 12:52
Quote
matxil
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
Lets Work symbolizes three of Micks solo albums, ( excluding WS ) it is transparent what Mick was aiming for, get inside the mind of Mick, what was he trying to achieve here and what did he learn from it.
Mick still tries to attract an audience that has no interest him.
He doesn't seem to know his audience but then again he does.
He's not Prince , he's not Bowie, nor can he ever be received by a modern genre the way those artists were in their time. It's too late and he just can't cut it on his own in that way.
He is what he is and he has achieved great success being what he is, i just don't understand why he thinks he needs to fake being something he is not.
If he were any good at trying something else he would have had success by now.
This is not using Lets Work as an excuse to have an argument against Mick, its a fact. I think Mick probably realizes this fact but something over rides it.
He totally realizes what music his fans want him to sing when he does live shows with the Stones, and he totally realized this when he played mostly Stones songs with his solo tour of Japan etc.
I am also tired of repeating myself.
He knows what makes him the 100's of millions that he has made over the years, he is fully aware of what puts bums on seats, so why go for the teeny boppers or whatever you call a young audience, it makes no sense, what is his motive.
So i hear a few of you say, " well it doesn't matter , Mick's not interested in solo success, he's just enjoying himself doing what he want's" OK good point but he's going to get bashed for it if it's disappointing to his fans like me.
I just wish he would get over himself, drop the Peter Pan complex at 75 years of age and be that god like genius that we all know him to be.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 28, 2018 12:58
To play the devil's advocate here a bit...
Without Mick's musical «wanderlust», would we have gotten Heartbreaker, Fingerprint File, Miss You, Emotional Rescue or Worried About You?
A part of me thinks we might not...
Without Mick's musical «wanderlust», would we have gotten Heartbreaker, Fingerprint File, Miss You, Emotional Rescue or Worried About You?
A part of me thinks we might not...
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 28, 2018 13:00
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Hehe, you may be right. Perhaps he was just having a laugh at the industry and the contemporary music scene and tried to thrive off that? He knew he was regarded an old fart, though, as he points that out repeatedly in the dialogue with his child in the title track on Primitive Cool
Maybe he still got that twinkle in his eye, regarding Let's Work - as he chose to add it on his greatest hits compilation?
Well, yeah... I take "Let's Work" being a high risk/a high reward kind of thing. As I edited to my previous post, choosing a standard Stones-style mid-tempo rocker like "Throwaway" as the face of the album would have been an easy and non-risky choice - but they were into jackpot there; they needed something to stand out from the ordinary, something 'completely different' to make a big hit by the 80's standards. Yep, they were heading for a jackpot but were left with empty hands... That's the nasty side of taking riskies sometimes.... Mick hadn't done many since...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 13:06 by Doxa.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 28, 2018 13:15
Quote
keithsmanQuote
matxil
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
Lets Work symbolizes three of Micks solo albums, ( excluding WS ) it is transparent what Mick was aiming for, get inside the mind of Mick, what was he trying to achieve here and what did he learn from it.
Mick still tries to attract an audience that has no interest him.
He doesn't seem to know his audience but then again he does.
He's not Prince , he's not Bowie, nor can he ever be received by a modern genre the way those artists were in their time. It's too late and he just can't cut it on his own in that way.
He is what he is and he has achieved great success being what he is, i just don't understand why he thinks he needs to fake being something he is not.
If he were any good at trying something else he would have had success by now.
This is not using Lets Work as an excuse to have an argument against Mick, its a fact. I think Mick probably realizes this fact but something over rides it.
He totally realizes what music his fans want him to sing when he does live shows with the Stones, and he totally realized this when he played mostly Stones songs with his solo tour of Japan etc.
I am also tired of repeating myself.
He knows what makes him the 100's of millions that he has made over the years, he is fully aware of what puts bums on seats, so why go for the teeny boppers or whatever you call a young audience, it makes no sense, what is his motive.
So i hear a few of you say, " well it doesn't matter , Mick's not interested in solo success, he's just enjoying himself doing what he want's" OK good point but he's going to get bashed for it if it's disappointing to his fans like me.
I just wish he would get over himself, drop the Peter Pan complex at 75 years of age and be that god like genius that we all know him to be.
If he had done what you propose, he would have stuck in 1964 with covering blues artists. Or in 1967 with trying to sound like other british pop bands. Instead, both Mick and Keith always tried to change, to improve and - whether you like it or not - see what was popular at that time. This goes both for Mick *and* Keith. They both looked for influences, first in soul music, then the Beatles, then Velvet Underground, Cream, Hendrix, then later reggae, and then punk and disco. It's that, as also Dandelion pointed out, what gave us a good deal of great songs on Tattoo You for instance. And that was both Mick *and* Keith trying something new.
What has changed is that they started looking in different directions. Which is not so strange after 25 years working together. What is strange is that for 25 years (give or take) they were pretty much on the same page. A certain John and Paul only managed that for 10 years (much less actually).
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: November 28, 2018 15:25
Quote
matxilQuote
keithsmanQuote
matxil
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
Lets Work symbolizes three of Micks solo albums, ( excluding WS ) it is transparent what Mick was aiming for, get inside the mind of Mick, what was he trying to achieve here and what did he learn from it.
Mick still tries to attract an audience that has no interest him.
He doesn't seem to know his audience but then again he does.
He's not Prince , he's not Bowie, nor can he ever be received by a modern genre the way those artists were in their time. It's too late and he just can't cut it on his own in that way.
He is what he is and he has achieved great success being what he is, i just don't understand why he thinks he needs to fake being something he is not.
If he were any good at trying something else he would have had success by now.
This is not using Lets Work as an excuse to have an argument against Mick, its a fact. I think Mick probably realizes this fact but something over rides it.
He totally realizes what music his fans want him to sing when he does live shows with the Stones, and he totally realized this when he played mostly Stones songs with his solo tour of Japan etc.
I am also tired of repeating myself.
He knows what makes him the 100's of millions that he has made over the years, he is fully aware of what puts bums on seats, so why go for the teeny boppers or whatever you call a young audience, it makes no sense, what is his motive.
So i hear a few of you say, " well it doesn't matter , Mick's not interested in solo success, he's just enjoying himself doing what he want's" OK good point but he's going to get bashed for it if it's disappointing to his fans like me.
I just wish he would get over himself, drop the Peter Pan complex at 75 years of age and be that god like genius that we all know him to be.
If he had done what you propose, he would have stuck in 1964 with covering blues artists. Or in 1967 with trying to sound like other british pop bands. Instead, both Mick and Keith always tried to change, to improve and - whether you like it or not - see what was popular at that time. This goes both for Mick *and* Keith. They both looked for influences, first in soul music, then the Beatles, then Velvet Underground, Cream, Hendrix, then later reggae, and then punk and disco. It's that, as also Dandelion pointed out, what gave us a good deal of great songs on Tattoo You for instance. And that was both Mick *and* Keith trying something new.
What has changed is that they started looking in different directions. Which is not so strange after 25 years working together. What is strange is that for 25 years (give or take) they were pretty much on the same page. A certain John and Paul only managed that for 10 years (much less actually).
Yes sorry i am being a bit harsh on Mick, no more mention of Lets Work from me.
I guess as a fan i get frustrated with Mick, and also Keith to some extent, Keith talks the talk but doesn't always walk the walk, like apart from interviews he did precious little to promoter CH as far as performance goes.
The problem for the fan is that the boys still have and had the potential to deliver great music live with that amazing back catalog of theirs, and i feel that their constant bickering and stubbornness towards each other has left Stones fans short since the early 80's as far as writing material and production is concerned. As great as they are they still under achieve imo.
I'm really interested in the forthcoming EP, it will be telling i think, like i said, its going to be great or terrible , ok it may well be in between like the previous few albums, but Crosseyed Heart gives me heart, its still there, Mick can still get the best out of Keith and Visa Versa.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
EdubertoPalitroke
()
Date: November 28, 2018 15:51
It is a common place to bash Mick by saying "he has changed; he's not the same person". But I sense some truth in it: after that 80something era (Dirty Work / Let's Work / whatever), he DID change his musical behaviour.
Since then, he began singing way different, he moves different (I mean back in the day, not now at his 70+), the Stones got the screens and pyro, they got dancing singers, they got... Matt Clifford..., they kept Chuck Leavell. Chuck Leavell... how could this happen?
Something happened with Mick there, beyond just looking for new musical landscapes on a solo path.
That did not happen to Keith, as far as I can now by simply listening to his albums.
That being said, I can't help but loving everything the Stones have done and will do. They're still The Rolling Stones, any way you look at them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 15:52 by EdubertoPalitroke.
Since then, he began singing way different, he moves different (I mean back in the day, not now at his 70+), the Stones got the screens and pyro, they got dancing singers, they got... Matt Clifford..., they kept Chuck Leavell. Chuck Leavell... how could this happen?
Something happened with Mick there, beyond just looking for new musical landscapes on a solo path.
That did not happen to Keith, as far as I can now by simply listening to his albums.
That being said, I can't help but loving everything the Stones have done and will do. They're still The Rolling Stones, any way you look at them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-28 15:52 by EdubertoPalitroke.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: December 4, 2018 20:24
I didn’t realize it was released on cassette as well. I just picked up two copies. One to keep and one to play in my car!!!
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: December 4, 2018 20:41
But Keith gave Mick Beast of Burden and Wild Horses and many others.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: December 4, 2018 21:36
I think the cassette was a freebie from Keith's site. I listened to about 30 seconds before ejecting.......lol really bad sound
I'm ready for some more Richards/Jordan material.......
I'm ready for some more Richards/Jordan material.......
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: December 4, 2018 21:52
Cassette was a Newbury Comics exlusive limited edition of 1000.
[www.newburycomics.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-04 21:53 by bye bye johnny.
[www.newburycomics.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-04 21:53 by bye bye johnny.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 4, 2018 22:13
Quote
Maindefender
I think the cassette was a freebie from Keith's site. I listened to about 30 seconds before ejecting.......lol really bad sound
I'm ready for some more Richards/Jordan material.......
Hm, my cassette sounds really great.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: December 4, 2018 22:25
Huh, so I got it from Newbury Comics on line. Whrere did I get the case of picks from? The difference from CD to cassette was huge.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: December 5, 2018 00:06
I enjoyed the cassette, and bought two copies from Newbury Comics.
One to play, and a backup copy to replace it once the first one gets warped, chewed up, and/or unraveled. So far so good, and the first copy is still alive and well and sounds great!
Might want to clean out your cassette deck Maindefender!
As for a case of picks, never heard of such a thing...maybe from Keith's site?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
One to play, and a backup copy to replace it once the first one gets warped, chewed up, and/or unraveled.
So far so good, and the first copy is still alive and well and sounds great!Might want to clean out your cassette deck Maindefender!
As for a case of picks, never heard of such a thing...maybe from Keith's site?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: December 5, 2018 04:32
My cassette deck is a museum piece, maybe I’ll entertain firing it up on Sunday if time allows
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: December 5, 2018 20:56
Yes, I, too, purchased 2 from Newbury Comics. For $3.99 each, one really can't complain. I happened to look around before picking up my second copy, which was on hold for me already, and whilst looking around, I was able to grab the 10" of Ride 'Em On Down for $5.99!!! A terrific find/price, and one more to cross off my list. I'm debating starting to get the whole catalog on LP, working backwards, but IDK yet. That new BB LP with the bonus content sounds nice, though I would never open it to play and/or view it.... 
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 5, 2018 22:44
BB LP?
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: December 5, 2018 22:46
…. I guess he means the latest Beggars Banquet reissue ….
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: December 5, 2018 22:57
Indeed Rockman! Newbury had a copy of the 3 LP edition for $56. I've since been able to locate it online for a bit less tho! 
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: December 5, 2018 23:14
ROCKMAN
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: December 6, 2018 15:56
Quote
BitchKeepsBitchin
This thread is highjacked -
Crosseyed Heart is KEEF's best,
that's all I got.
That's the funniest line on the CD and I love the way that KEEF gives a little chuckle there.
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: December 7, 2018 21:01
I was listening to Bruce Springsteen Working on a Dream and the song Lucky Day has that outro quick chord change D to G to A 3 times and then G,A. It reminded me of Keith's outro ending on Trouble( not the same chords. I have to much time on my hands these days.
Lucky Day starts at 3.50 mark
[www.youtube.com]
Trouble - starts at 4.11
[www.youtube.com]
Lucky Day starts at 3.50 mark
[www.youtube.com]
Trouble - starts at 4.11
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Keith Richards solo album 'Crosseyed Heart' - out September 18, 2015
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: December 7, 2018 22:25
Quote
matxil
I don't want to repeat myself too often, which is why I am trying not to post on the "yeah, a new album coming up" thread, or posting again what I like about CH or why I prefer they'd all gone 100% solo a long time ago, but I do want to make a comment about the last 2 pages of this thread where "Let's Work" has been used as an argument against Mick Jagger.
I don't think that's fair.
I am not a big fan of Mick Jagger's solo work but I think he was the first to recognize, back then, that music was evolving one way and the Stones were kind of stuck in "Stones by numbers". So he wanted to try different things. "Let's Work" was made very much tongue in cheek and not a fair representation of everything he did solo. I remember my embarassment when it first came on Music Box and MTV (that's how old I am), but, 1) at least he tried something different 2) it's not typical of his general solo output.
Since ER and U, he's been trying to somehow find some middle ground between rock music and "modern musical developments". I don't think he managed yet but at least he tried.
Keith went a different way, staying closer to his roots, but developing it in a direction suitable for his voice. I like it better. Much better. But just as judging the Stones on "Gomper" or Keith's output on "Infamy" wouldn't be fair either, neither is judging Mick on "Let's Work". And to be honest, yesterday I looked at the clip again and yes, it's awful but I could somehow see how it was meant to be funny.
You could've said Can't Be Seen or Yap Yap or It Means A Lot as well...
This Thread has been closed
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