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alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: thomashanck ()
Date: September 16, 2013 00:07

Hi,

never heard these takes from the bootleg "trainig wheels", sorry if posted before or known ...

blinded by love




mixed emotions




terrifying



Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: September 16, 2013 00:55

They sound much better to me than what they released on Steels Wheels

__________________________

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: September 16, 2013 10:19

Quote
NICOS
They sound much better to me than what they released on Steels Wheels

I agree. Of course these songs weren't finished, but the studio gloss put on at the end didn't add anything.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Date: September 16, 2013 10:46

It's remarkable that we're able to hear better instrument separation, more energy and a wider soundscape in general from a rough mix! Terrifying is absolutely brilliant.

Would be interesting to hear from pros like Drake on this one. What went wrong in the final mix?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-16 10:56 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: September 16, 2013 11:10

Quote
NICOS
They sound much better to me than what they released on Steels Wheels

I bet Blinded By Love sound better in an even earlier stage.....before the song was ever written!

But I agree about the Steel Wheels early takes are superiour to the finished versions; same goes for the soundquality, which was so slick on the official product

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: September 16, 2013 11:40

Yes Steel Wheels is too slick. But keep in mind that in the 1980's slickness was an unquestioned virtue. This was before grunge made raw, "organic" sounds fashionable again.

Drew

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: scottkeef ()
Date: September 16, 2013 16:09

Quote
drewmaster
Yes Steel Wheels is too slick. But keep in mind that in the 1980's slickness was an unquestioned virtue. This was before grunge made raw, "organic" sounds fashionable again.

Drew
I agree and will go a bit further "before grunge" and AFTER the punk movement of the mid to late 70s that also made "raw" in....will it go round in circles?? ;-)

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: greenriver ()
Date: September 16, 2013 17:59

Always better before mastering. If you get the 2cd reissue of Atlantic crossing from rod stewart, the sound is raw on the 2nd cd like you were in the room with them.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: September 16, 2013 21:49





Keef Riffhard

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Title5Take1 ()
Date: September 17, 2013 00:14

Quote
greenriver
Always better before mastering. If you get the 2cd reissue of Atlantic crossing from rod stewart, the sound is raw on the 2nd cd like you were in the room with them.

Upfront controversy: I like STREETS OF LOVE. That out of the way, before ABB was released, I recorded a radio station playing SOL, and it was a rawer mix than would show up on the album, and I prefer it to this day. Just subtle differences, but especially Mick's vocal in the last part of the song cuts through more. (This version is a slightly different edit, too.)

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: RobberBride ()
Date: September 17, 2013 00:36

As im not in a place I can listen to these cuts, are we discussing tracks from the Steel Wheels Monitor mixes or are these new?

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: September 17, 2013 03:13

Quote
RobberBride
As im not in a place I can listen to these cuts, are we discussing tracks from the Steel Wheels Monitor mixes or are these new?

neither. The Monitor Mixes circulated August 2006. These came out a few months later. For the most part, the Training Wheels songs appear to be earlier takes.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 17, 2013 05:11

Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's remarkable that we're able to hear better instrument separation, more energy and a wider soundscape in general from a rough mix! Terrifying is absolutely brilliant.

Would be interesting to hear from pros like Drake on this one. What went wrong in the final mix?

the 80s

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: September 17, 2013 05:18

Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
NICOS
They sound much better to me than what they released on Steels Wheels

I bet Blinded By Love sound better in an even earlier stage.....before the song was ever written!

Is that an attempt at humor? Blinded by Love is probably one of the best things on Steel Wheels. A beautiful country tinged Rolling Stones song.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: September 17, 2013 07:07

Wow! Fantastic energy on Mixed Emotions. Much more so than on the rather tame released version. The rhythm guitars of keith and Mick sound great together. The whole band is on fire.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: RobberBride ()
Date: September 17, 2013 10:16

Quote
Gazza
Quote
RobberBride
As im not in a place I can listen to these cuts, are we discussing tracks from the Steel Wheels Monitor mixes or are these new?

neither. The Monitor Mixes circulated August 2006. These came out a few months later. For the most part, the Training Wheels songs appear to be earlier takes.

thumbs up

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Date: September 17, 2013 10:23

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's remarkable that we're able to hear better instrument separation, more energy and a wider soundscape in general from a rough mix! Terrifying is absolutely brilliant.

Would be interesting to hear from pros like Drake on this one. What went wrong in the final mix?

the 80s

1989. The reverb-feticism had started to wane. Unfortunately, Matt Clifford hadn't...

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 17, 2013 10:36

These are lovely for lack of a better word.

Take me back to the end of the 80's...production aside, I still think this is a very good album and I don't think a duff track in the bunch. Always liked Blinded By Love, not sure why the general disdain for it. A great country toon.

Love how the melody was strongly in place before hardly any of the lyrics, maybe just the chorus.

I think this is the track that Chris Jagger was credited for co-writing the lyrics on, or research or something.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 17, 2013 10:39

I enjoy Jagger's vocals on "Blinded By Love" here more than in the finished version, in which he just over-interpreted and sounded funny (not in a good way). Reminds me here something of "Waiting On A Friend".

The rest? Matt Clifford or any guy behind the desk didn't spoil anything... The reasons why STEEL WHEELS is not very memorable album lie deeper, and those early versions show why...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-17 10:42 by Doxa.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 17, 2013 10:39

Quote
71Tele
Wow! Fantastic energy on Mixed Emotions. Much more so than on the rather tame released version. The rhythm guitars of keith and Mick sound great together. The whole band is on fire.

Yes, especially Charlie. Just looking at the band photos from the sessions in those clips, he looks really determined, as if he really has something to prove, considering how he couldn't finish Dirty Work. In those photos he looks driven, practically possessed.

Love Bill's bass sound on Terrifying. It can't be heard that prominently in the final mix unfortunately.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 17, 2013 10:50

Quote
treaclefingers

Always liked Blinded By Love, not sure why the general disdain for it. A great country toon.

Love how the melody was strongly in place before hardly any of the lyrics, maybe just the chorus.

I think this is the track that Chris Jagger was credited for co-writing the lyrics on, or research or something.

Yes it was. I also like this early version here, and compared to the finished version, I think they somehow lost its potentia during the finishing process. Probably something to do with adding the full worked lyrics, which made Jagger's delivery to sound so forced. He was carefully trying to follow the 'story' and the melody line, which ends up sounding like a struggle to him. There is a nice melody there, and the whole structure of the song is catchy, but the finished version just don't work.

- Doxa

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 17, 2013 10:55

Quote
Doxa
Quote
treaclefingers

Always liked Blinded By Love, not sure why the general disdain for it. A great country toon.

Love how the melody was strongly in place before hardly any of the lyrics, maybe just the chorus.

I think this is the track that Chris Jagger was credited for co-writing the lyrics on, or research or something.

Yes it was. I also like this early version here, and compared to the finished version, I think they somehow lost its potentia during the finishing process. Probably something to do with adding the full worked lyrics, which made Jagger's delivery to sound so forced. He was carefully trying to follow the 'story' and the melody line, which ends up sounding like a struggle to him. There is a nice melody there, and the whole structure of the song is catchy, but the finished version just don't work.

- Doxa

I don't disagree with that...he sounds quite mannered in his delivery on the final version. Regardless I still enjoy that track, although I must say prefer this early version. Goes for Terrifying as well.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Date: September 17, 2013 11:00

<The reasons why STEEL WHEELS is not very memorable album lie deeper, and those early versions show why.>

What do they show? To me, the songs sound really good. Later on, a ton of reverb and synths were added, the songs were chopped off and edited as well.

If the Stones did anything wrong later in the process it must have something to do with Mick's vocals on some of the songs. Less mannered vocals, and a bit looser feel could have saved some of the stuff, imo.

I like Blinded By Love, too. I love Hearts For Sale, and I find Terrifying, Almost Hear You Sigh, Continental Drift and Terrifying latter day Stones classics.

Hold On To Your Hat is the clunker on the album, imo. I wish that they hadn't tampered with the guitars on that one and Can't Be Seen. Reverb and delay-fest with Keith's guitars. Totally unnecessary!

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 17, 2013 11:04

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<The reasons why STEEL WHEELS is not very memorable album lie deeper, and those early versions show why.>

What do they show? To me, the songs sound really good. Later on, a ton of reverb and synths were added, the songs were chopped off and edited as well.

If the Stones did anything wrong later in the process it must have something to do with Mick's vocals on some of the songs. Less mannered vocals, and a bit looser feel could have saved some of the stuff, imo.

I like Blinded By Love, too. I love Hearts For Sale, and I find Terrifying, Almost Hear You Sigh, Continental Drift and Terrifying latter day Stones classics.

Hold On To Your Hat is the clunker on the album, imo. I wish that they hadn't tampered with the guitars on that one and Can't Be Seen. Reverb and delay-fest with Keith's guitars. Totally unnecessary!

Yeah, I guess I could skip Hold On To Your Hat without any problem. It's ok but not great.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 17, 2013 12:07

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<The reasons why STEEL WHEELS is not very memorable album lie deeper, and those early versions show why.>

What do they show? To me, the songs sound really good. Later on, a ton of reverb and synths were added, the songs were chopped off and edited as well.

If the Stones did anything wrong later in the process it must have something to do with Mick's vocals on some of the songs. Less mannered vocals, and a bit looser feel could have saved some of the stuff, imo.

I like Blinded By Love, too. I love Hearts For Sale, and I find Terrifying, Almost Hear You Sigh, Continental Drift and Terrifying latter day Stones classics.

Hold On To Your Hat is the clunker on the album, imo. I wish that they hadn't tampered with the guitars on that one and Can't Be Seen. Reverb and delay-fest with Keith's guitars. Totally unnecessary!

I feel like being challenged. Not the first time.smileys with beer

First of all, there is a lot good in STEEL WHEELS. It sounded fresh at the time, and also one can hear in those early versions that there is something re-invented freshness and joy in their delivery, which also can be heard the ideas used. Especially compared to UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK - the first basically recicling their standard Pathe Marconi toolback with current make-up with no much inspiration, the latter being a half-baked deal by many means (not the least to do with the lack of Jagger's interest). One difference compared to all their material since pre-SOME GIRLS days - pl. TATTOO YOU, which doesn't count - is that Jagger had rediscovered during his solo experiments that there is a thing called 'melody' in songs. There is a lot of melodic stuff in STEEL WHEELS, and, for example, each of these clips here show that. Even otherwise generic "Mixed Emotions" has a catchy chorus.

But that said, I think the material still is rather 'light-weight', and I don't feel the real presence of muse here. I think both PRIMITIVE COOL and TALK IS CHEAP contained much stronger, inspired material. The STEEL WHEELS stuff has this odd 'buddy-buddy' feel in it. The band sounds relaxed, a bit too comfortable, but not very inspired, like they don't use the last gear at all, but is satisfied with lesser effort. To me they sound like without their edge or balls; the famous element of 'danger' and the passion that makes The Stones music so memorable is absent. So the material basically is catchy and easy-listenable with first hearing, but the attraction vanishes very quickly, since there is not so much substance in there. I think STEEL WHEELS is a typical latter-day album in that sense, or to say: it sets the trend ever since, and there is not many instances ever since I find them doing something which would make me a lasting effect. (For example, a mediocre, tired-sounding album like UNDERCOVER still has enough substance, and groove in it, to have that, and even DIRTY WORK in pieces.)

But I would say that of those latter-day albums STEEL WHEELS is still my favourite, since it is still a coherent album, making a clear musical statement. It probably don't have the highlights of BRIDGES TO BABYLON, but it is over all much more┬┤enjoyable.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-17 12:13 by Doxa.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Date: September 17, 2013 12:14

It's my latter day favourite as well.

Undercover, however, is a dark album - and the danger is very much present.

On Steel Wheels, songs like Sad Sad Sad and Hold On To Your Hat could really have been the dark, dangerous songs you ask for. But seemingly, something got lost along the way with those songs. The fact that Mick took on a greater role in playing the guitar on those songs may have contributed to that, imo. It's cool that he plays the guitar, but when he takes on the lead rhythm-role, something definitely happens with the band's sound.

I still find Terrifying, Almost Hear You Sigh, Continental Drift, Hearts For Sale and Slipping Away to be way above lightweight-quality, though. Nice melodies as well.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: September 17, 2013 12:26

Thanks OP!

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 17, 2013 12:46

I think losing the element of danger - which to me is pretty much associated with passion - is not to read off from what they are doing there (for example, Jagger picking up the guitar during SOME GIRLS sessions, didn't have that effect), but what has been happening with the group dynamics since the Pathe Marconi days. In STEEL WHEELS there is that feeling that after all those 'World War III' years, the old gang is back again, and enjoys a bit too much of that very fact that they are together again. The implicit nostalgia - reference to the glory past - is probably the glue which makes them function at all (and all the negative things and tensions are kept out of the table). It is the first time I recognize The Stones taking that 'okay, let's be the Stones and sound like them' attitude on. All the way to UNDERCOVER as far as I can see The Stones didn't think that way, or that attitude didn't even had occured them, since they were a functioning band all the time, making new music about every year, and like naturally adapting the current new things to their funded experience. There were not radical 'stops', and the 'danger' was a natural part of their game, with which they were learned to live with.

I don't think if I used right words, but to me there is a clear difference in attitude towards music - and how they see The Stones - in STEEL WHEELS, which marks their new music ever since. My educated guess is that it has very much to do with Mick Jagger (but for the rest of them as well, The Stones were not any longer their full-time job but an excursion from their semi-retirement.)

Even though STEEL WHEELS is not a "retro album" like VOODOO LOUNGE - no, it actually presents a rather 'novel' sound world with rather bravy experiments - I think it presents this new attitude which makes an album like VOODOO LOUNGE - "Stones for beginners" - possible.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-17 12:48 by Doxa.

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Posted by: Wild Slivovitz ()
Date: September 17, 2013 12:55

That might be true to a certain extent, but for instance "Break The Spell" is a very dark song, which indeed conveys a sense of "danger" (also thanks to the wonderful harmonica work by Jagger). Despite the production, also "Continental Drift" has a certain edge, and songs like "Mixed Emotions", "Terryfing" or "Hearts For Sale" had a lot of unexpressed potential.

Steel Wheels was a very effective comeback indeed!

Re: alternate takes 1989 - blinded by love / mixed emotions - terrifying
Date: September 17, 2013 12:58

Quote
Wild Slivovitz
That might be true to a certain extent, but for instance "Break The Spell" is a very dark song, which indeed conveys a sense of "danger" (also thanks to the wonderful harmonica work by Jagger). Despite the production, also "Continental Drift" has a certain edge, and songs like "Mixed Emotions", "Terryfing" or "Hearts For Sale" had a lot of unexpressed potential.

Steel Wheels was a very effective comeback indeed!

Absolutely!

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