..simply on this song:





Outstanding! In rock and blues history....

2 1 2 0

IMPERIAL riff?

First time I hear this term.

Have I missed someting?

delete



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-16 14:45 by triceratops.

Vocals: Mick Jagger Electric Guitars: Mick Taylor (Solo & Slide) & Keith Richards Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Piano: Nicky Hopkins Saxophone: Bobby Keys Trumpet & Trombone: Jim Price

source: KENO - thank you

I even like Charlie´s beat more...
And the piano is great, too.


Fantastic song!

THIS is the REAL Imperial Riff...





[thepowergoats.com]

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dead.flowers
Vocals: Mick Jagger Electric Guitars: Mick Taylor (Solo & Slide) & Keith Richards Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Piano: Nicky Hopkins Saxophone: Bobby Keys Trumpet & Trombone: Jim Price

source: KENO - thank you

I think it's Keith who plays the riff.

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BowieStone

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dead.flowers
Vocals: Mick Jagger Electric Guitars: Mick Taylor (Solo & Slide) & Keith Richards Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Piano: Nicky Hopkins Saxophone: Bobby Keys Trumpet & Trombone: Jim Price

source: KENO - thank you

I think it's Keith who plays the riff.

You would think it is Keith playing that muddy riff. But then why was Mick Taylor given song writting credits? The only time glimmers alotted him any

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TooTough
I even like Charlie´s beat more...

Yeah, very odd beat. Pretty unlike Charlie, isn't it?

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triceratops
Who plays it? Mick or Keith? Gotta be Mick Taylor.

Keith played it, Taylor wrote the riff, supposedly...

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Thommie

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TooTough
I even like Charlie´s beat more...

Yeah, very odd beat. Pretty unlike Charlie, isn't it?

Bobby Keys wrote the rhythm part, which is the clever part of the song. Bobby said, Why don't you do this? and I said, I can't play that, so Bobby stood next to clapping the thing and I just followed his timing. In the world of Take Five, it's nothing, but it threw me completely and Bobby just stood there and clapped while we were doing the track - and we've never quite got it together as well as that. - Charlie Watts.

(From timeisonourside.com)

The song has got swamp rock written all over it. It's low down, sleazy and you can almost feel the humidity at Nellcote with moisture slowly dripping down the walls of that dank basement. And boy, do I wish I'd been there whilst they were recording. I bet no good was going on. Heh heh!

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triceratops

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BowieStone

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dead.flowers
Vocals: Mick Jagger Electric Guitars: Mick Taylor (Solo & Slide) & Keith Richards Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Piano: Nicky Hopkins Saxophone: Bobby Keys Trumpet & Trombone: Jim Price

source: KENO - thank you

I think it's Keith who plays the riff.

You would think it is Keith playing that muddy riff. But then why was Mick Taylor given song writting credits? The only time glimmers alotted him any

Keith played the riff, both on the studio version and live.

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DandelionPowderman

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triceratops

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BowieStone

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dead.flowers
Vocals: Mick Jagger Electric Guitars: Mick Taylor (Solo & Slide) & Keith Richards Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Piano: Nicky Hopkins Saxophone: Bobby Keys Trumpet & Trombone: Jim Price

source: KENO - thank you

I think it's Keith who plays the riff.

You would think it is Keith playing that muddy riff. But then why was Mick Taylor given song writting credits? The only time glimmers alotted him any

Keith played the riff, both on the studio version and live.

The riff is classic early 70s Keith.

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dead.flowers
Vocals: Mick Jagger Electric Guitars: Mick Taylor (Solo & Slide) & Keith Richards Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Piano: Nicky Hopkins Saxophone: Bobby Keys Trumpet & Trombone: Jim Price

source: KENO - thank you

When Keno states it is Taylor, than it is Richards of course.

Mathijs

Mick Taylor IS playing solo & slide, But Keith is playing the riff, and he plays slide as well

It looks to me that Taylor's credit on this was a kind of random recognition of his contributions to the songs by Mick and Keith. The man himself has been wondering why on earth he got credit for that one, even though I have never heard did he feel like he deserved it or not. Those who believe in that the Rolling Stones live in a perfect world where justice is always done and the credition is correspondence to reality, might think that he actually wrote the riff, and Richards just played it. Could be, but I don't think they did too many notes during those Nellcote sessions about who did and what, so by the time they were writing credits - including the inner sleeves, not the most accurate ones, which pretty much reflect the hectic nature of making the record - probably in L.A, I can easily imagine that Mick and Keith were not too accurate in this one, either. So I tend to think it is just a "collective" recognition of Taylor's involvement in songs making process. Or they just remembered the song wrong... "Mick, do you remember which song Mick had a strong hand in writing, you know, suggesting some stuff". "No, Keith, I probably wasn't even there. But yeah, I guess he did some stuff... Okay, let's say it's "Ventilator Blues", since it is not any single material anyhow ". "Haha, yeah, let's give him that one - even if I recall right it was based on Bobby's riff... Shit, who cares!"

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-16 12:54 by Doxa.

<Those who believe in that the Rolling Stones live in a perfect where justice is always done and the credition is correspondence to reality, might think that he actually wrote the riff, and Richards just played it>

It wouldn't be so strange. Taylor played the Bitch-riff, written by Keith - but who knows what happened...

Taylor also got credit for Stop Breaking Down on the vinyl version



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-16 12:55 by DandelionPowderman.

Could be that VB was credited to Taylor without a specific reason, but I remain convinced that the chorus progression was Taylor's suggestion.

Probably more than the chords themselves, the idea of adding a melodic opening to Keith's bluesy riff.

C

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor also got credit for Stop Breaking Down on the vinyl version

Another example why Mick and Keith were not in their sharpest mood in giving/sharing credits - or otherwise: never been more meaner... probably good stuff on their table then...

Anyway, what goes for "Ventilator Blues", I think the oddest thing, and the strongest evidence against "perfect world" hypothesis, is that of Taylor himself being stated that he couldn't understand why he did get a credit for it. I mean, he could have easily said that "yeah, I did wrote the riff", but he hasn't - nothing to that direction (but, of course could that he didn't remember either...). One way to interpret his "surprise credit" comment that what he did to the song wasn't much any different than he did to some other songs, where he did not get a credition.

But the whole point why I am skeptical to "perfect world" hypothesis is that Jagger and Richards are not particularly famous for being generious in sharing credits, and when they rarely - or then: finally - do it, the "lucky one" is complaining... (But of course, what does Taylor's word count in Perfect World...)

But hey, Dandie, I wrote my alternative interpretion in the form of fanatsy dialogue above later to the original post. I mean, if you didn't catch it yet...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-16 13:18 by Doxa.

<Jagger and Richards are not particularly famous for being generious in sharing credits>

And the more people like us speculate about that, without actual knowledge, the bigger the villains they get

But imperial-rift between the Glimmers was in the mid 80's ....



ROCKMAN

And the imperial-shift happened with the so-called Vegas era...

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DandelionPowderman
<Jagger and Richards are not particularly famous for being generious in sharing credits>

And the more people like us speculate about that, without actual knowledge, the bigger the villains they get

So better to be a True Believer on the perfect world of justice...Mick and Keith can do no wrong, not even human mistakes. So sad that they are surrounded by such whiners, liers, bitter people, etc.

Amen.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<Jagger and Richards are not particularly famous for being generious in sharing credits>

And the more people like us speculate about that, without actual knowledge, the bigger the villains they get

So better to be a True Believer on the perfect world of justice...Mick and Keith can do no wrong, not even human mistakes. So sad that they are surrounded by such whiners, liers, bitter people, etc.

Amen.

- Doxa

Just as bad as a true dis-believer

Ventilator Blues is one of my favourite Exile tracks.

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windmelody
Ventilator Blues is one of my favourite Exile tracks.

It's affa good.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<Jagger and Richards are not particularly famous for being generious in sharing credits>

And the more people like us speculate about that, without actual knowledge, the bigger the villains they get

So better to be a True Believer on the perfect world of justice...Mick and Keith can do no wrong, not even human mistakes. So sad that they are surrounded by such whiners, liers, bitter people, etc.

Amen.

- Doxa

Just as bad as a true dis-believer

Yeah, if the world is so black and white... some of us recognize so called a grey area as well...

- Doxa

The key-words are "aren't particular famous for..."

By whom, and why?

Of course, if you post a 1000 times that they constantly tried to rip off their band mates or other musicians, an increasing number of people will actually believe they did

I'm not saying it didn't happen occasionally, but why is it more likely that what you are BELIEVING is more correct, than what others believe?

And why the need for trying to pin "true believer", "black and white" and that stuff on me?