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DandelionPowderman
Mickey Mouse?????

Great they let Darryl do the noodling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-14 12:37 by svt22.

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svt22

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DandelionPowderman
Mickey Mouse?????

Great they let Darryl do the noodling.

A variation of the CYHMK-ending

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MileHigh
There was some recent Mick Jagger interview where he said that he could never write and release a song like Brown Sugar nowadays. The lyrics being too racy and all that. Can you imagine trying to release a song like Stray Cat Blues? (Although, on second thought you have bands like Marilyn Manson and all that creepy stuff.)

The original Stray Cat Blues is unique in many ways and it rocks and it's dangerous.

The GYYYO Stray Cat Blues is a great version also, but it almost makes me want to cry. And I think that that's the meaning that Mick wanted to get across in the live version. Sort of like "compensation" for the Beggar's Banquet version.

The essence of the album Stray Cat isn't the fate of the 15-year old girl, but the loneliness and sickness of the first-person (voiced by Jagger). In fact it's a pathetic psychopath ("it's no capital crime" etc).

The Ya-Ya-s version does more to me, in the sense of drama and tragic, not only because it's now a 13-year old girl, but especially because the sickness and sadness of the first-person are more accentuated, as well by the lyrics ("I'm so far from home, but I don't really miss my mother" ) as by the fantastic guitars. Maybe the best song on Ya-Ya's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-14 17:13 by kleermaker.

<The Ya-Ya-s version does more to me, in the sense of drama>

Really?

I just compared them again and what strikes me is that the tempo of the live version is exactly right whereas the tempo of the studio version is a bit too fast. Secondly that the end of the studio version does remind me of Their Satanic. Strange how the song ends. Very abruptly.

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kleermaker
I just compared them again and what strikes me is that the tempo of the live version is exactly right whereas the tempo of the studio version is a bit too fast. Secondly that the end of the studio version does remind me of Their Satanic. Strange how the song ends. Very abruptly.

I like both versions, as well as both tempos. However, the drama in the studio version seems unsurpassable to me - hence I found it baffling that you thought the live version was more dramatic.

Then again, that's one of the reasons why music is so exciting; we hear different things, and get our kicks out of different things

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker
I just compared them again and what strikes me is that the tempo of the live version is exactly right whereas the tempo of the studio version is a bit too fast. Secondly that the end of the studio version does remind me of Their Satanic. Strange how the song ends. Very abruptly.

I like both versions, as well as both tempos. However, the drama in the studio version seems unsurpassable to me - hence I found it baffling that you thought the live version was more dramatic.

Then again, that's one of the reasons why music is so exciting; we hear different things, and get our kicks out of different things

Yes we certainly do. But I love live music much more than studio music, which has something artificial to me, even though our friend His M. compares studio music with a painting. Live music, it's already in the word live.

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kleermaker


Yes we certainly do. But I love live music much more than studio music, which has something artificial to me, even though our friend His M. compares studio music with a painting. Live music, it's already in the word live.

All recorded music has something artifical to it.

Live music is something completely of the moment, something which is unique to every individual that is present as the music unfolds. It's something that is gone forever as each moment passes.

Recorded live music is not really live music.

Ya-Ya's is quite artificial because it claims to be and is presented as being something it isn't.

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


Yes we certainly do. But I love live music much more than studio music, which has something artificial to me, even though our friend His M. compares studio music with a painting. Live music, it's already in the word live.

All recorded music has something artifical to it.

Live music is something completely of the moment, something which is unique to every individual that is present as the music unfolds. It's something that is gone forever as each moment passes.

Recorded live music is not really live music.

Ya-Ya's is quite artificial because it claims to be and is presented as being something it isn't.

I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

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kleermaker


I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

Those meds really have @#$%& with your head.

"You look so lonesome and you so far from home, its no hangin matter, its no capital crime"

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

Those meds really have @#$%& with your head.

I guess kleerie isn't too crazy about Keith wiping Taylor's rhythm guitar off LQ either

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

Those meds really have @#$%& with your head.

I guess kleerie isn't too crazy about Keith wiping Taylor's rhythm guitar off LQ either

who is , really, since there's nothing wrong with it in the first place!
the same with the vocals on every track ,(MR LIV proves the point)
imagine the HTW with the girl crashing the stage being the track on the album, would have been great,unique ,live is live.

still , it is still my favourite album.

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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

Those meds really have @#$%& with your head.

I guess kleerie isn't too crazy about Keith wiping Taylor's rhythm guitar off LQ either

who is , really, since there's nothing wrong with it in the first place!
the same with the vocals on every track ,(MR LIV proves the point)
imagine the HTW with the girl crashing the stage being the track on the album, would have been great,unique ,live is live.

still , it is still my favourite album.

I agree. There was some clashing with Taylor's rhythm guitar, though.

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svt22

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DandelionPowderman
Mickey Mouse?????

Great they let Darryl do the noodling.

The bass solo is too busy and jazzy. I miss Bill here. A lot.

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Title5Take1

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svt22

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DandelionPowderman
Mickey Mouse?????

Great they let Darryl do the noodling.

The bass solo is too busy and jazzy. I miss Bill here. A lot.

I miss Keith's bass on the studio version...

I miss mellotron on all of the live versions.

I miss Mick's humming...

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pinkfloydthebarber

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Aquamarine
Dunno about stupid, how about realistic.

A lot of bands of this era had songs in a similar vein.

nah, its just stupid. all those 'similiar vein' songs are stupid.

'realistic'? please. if jagger (or any rock star) banged a 13 year old, he's an @#$%&. if i were her dad, i'd of gleefully wrung his scrawny neck

jagger put in in there for hype and effect, not 'reality'

he's not a nut

oh,thats funny-you obviously werent around back then.many of the girls i went to jr high school with would dress up in outfits that would give parents a friggin heart attack-i'm talking fishnets,high heels and go backstage.the world was younger then-sorry it doesnt fit todays moral code but thats how it was.

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lem motlow

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pinkfloydthebarber

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Aquamarine
Dunno about stupid, how about realistic.

A lot of bands of this era had songs in a similar vein.

nah, its just stupid. all those 'similiar vein' songs are stupid.

'realistic'? please. if jagger (or any rock star) banged a 13 year old, he's an @#$%&. if i were her dad, i'd of gleefully wrung his scrawny neck

jagger put in in there for hype and effect, not 'reality'

he's not a nut

oh,thats funny-you obviously werent around back then.many of the girls i went to jr high school with would dress up in outfits that would give parents a friggin heart attack-i'm talking fishnets,high heels and go backstage.the world was younger then-sorry it doesnt fit todays moral code but thats how it was.

ok so you say 'you obviously werent around back then.many of the girls i went to jr high school with would dress up in outfits that would give parents a friggin heart attack-i'm talking fishnets,high heels and go backstage' but aquamarine says 'I was a teen girl back in the 60s, and that seems like a mega-exaggeration to me. Teen girls (e.g. me) didn't leave home "in droves" any more or less than they do now. '

so which is it? you guys aint following me here, i m not saying that it was not a different time then and differnt stuff happened that today would not, but this is a just a story of a guy who gets laid by a teenager who knows exactly what she wants, and so does he, is all I am sayin.

and as I said i don't particularily believe jagger actually ever did this, re: 13 year olds, even if page and tyler and whoever else did, and instead i am saying he just upped the ante and slapped societal norms upside the head by purposely pushing the lyrical envelope to make the stones sound more dangerous - by testing public opinion by casting himself as the predatory older male, by writing a song casting the character as a guy that doesn't care a whit about the line that separates right and wrong, although he does care about the delineation between a mere felony and a capital crime

jagger casts teh character as a guy who doesn't want to see the girl's I.D. probably so he can, if he has to, later claim ignorance of her true age

so then this chick scratches, bites and spits, so the character jagger portrays in the song challenges her that he bets her momma dont bite like that.. just to truly piss off the mom crowd, and then stokes that fire by asking the 13 or 15 year old to to invite her friend into the action

ok. its just a song, whatever. by 1968 jagger had more than his fair share of groupie encounters already, so he could write about just about anything.

but today? any adult songwrite writing about banging two 13 year olds would first of all not see the record appear on walmart shelves, and quite possibly might wind up being hauled to the hoos-cow for interogation - whereas back in 1969 maybe it was condemned in a few sermons and small town newspaper editorials

that said nonetheless I think Stray Cat Blues is a great song despite its point of view, immoral or not as you wish to think it may be - which is my point, jagger wrote it purposely to be that way



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-15 04:25 by pinkfloydthebarber.

OK, well, I'm not following a lot of your argument here (starting with, lem motlow and I don't seem to be contradicting each other--I agree with him), and my original point was just that while the song might offend your sensibilities (i.e. the behavior described as "stupid," etc.), it was nevertheless a genuine picture of stuff that genuinely did go on. That's all. You seem to be the only one discussing its relative morality.

So I'm out.

Terrific song, anyway!

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Aquamarine
OK, well, I'm not following a lot of your argument here (starting with, lem motlow and I don't seem to be contradicting each other--I agree with him), and my original point was just that while the song might offend your sensibilities (i.e. the behavior described as "stupid," etc.), it was nevertheless a genuine picture of stuff that genuinely did go on. That's all. You seem to be the only one discussing its relative morality.

So I'm out.

Terrific song, anyway!

i m not saying the song offends my sensibilities. i m saying jagger wrote it purposely to provoke the social norms of the times, to which the rock and roll lifestyle did not conform

what i mean by 'stupid' is the lyrical content of the track IS stupid - underage sex - is stupid like how jaggers lyrics in 'dancing with mr d' are insipidly stupid, when he tried to push the whole spooky devil crap for a little too long

You take a song like this, which is probably like the 4th or 5th or even 6th best song on the album, (hard to pick from this lot .... SFM, SFTD, No Expectations, Prodigal Son, Salt of The Earth, Jigsaw Puzzle, Factory Girl, Dear Doctor - I mean, what is the weakest song on the album?) and put it on anything after 1983 and it becomes the best song on any of those latter day albums.

I think that just screams how good the song is, how good the other songs during that period were, and how good they were as creative artists during that period.

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Mathijs

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pinkfloydthebarber
gosh

and at a certain point in time, it was OK to own slaves and beat them up

Actually, treating slaves badly was a crime.

Anyway, in my time it was legal to have sex with a 13 year old. And I am half as old as Jagger.

Mathijs

Hi, Matt! Love to read your posts but sometimes I don't get it:
You're 35 yo? And that means you were 5 yo when Undercover was released?
If true you must've been a very, very young hard-core Stones-fan!


Re: Undercover 25th anniversary
Posted by:Mathijs ()
Date: September 9, 2008 17:44

From the day it was released it has remained in my top 3 Stones albums. To date the most aggressive and sexual Stones album, and Jagger hits his absolute best here.

Mathijs

(From [www.iorr.org])

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treaclefingers
You take a song like this, which is probably like the 4th or 5th or even 6th best song on the album, (hard to pick from this lot .... SFM, SFTD, No Expectations, Prodigal Son, Salt of The Earth, Jigsaw Puzzle, Factory Girl, Dear Doctor - I mean, what is the weakest song on the album?) and put it on anything after 1983 and it becomes the best song on any of those latter day albums.

I think that just screams how good the song is, how good the other songs during that period were, and how good they were as creative artists during that period.

I get your point, but don't agree fully

Firstly, SCB has always been my favourite off BB, mostly because of the vicious sound and feel of the song.

Secondly, even though I like it, Jig Saw Puzzle would have been a filler on most Stones albums - mostly because its lack of distinctness. Yes, it is beautiful, yet so different, yet so ungraspable - if you get my drift?

But I like it...

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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

Those meds really have @#$%& with your head.

I guess kleerie isn't too crazy about Keith wiping Taylor's rhythm guitar off LQ either

who is , really, since there's nothing wrong with it in the first place!
the same with the vocals on every track ,(MR LIV proves the point)
imagine the HTW with the girl crashing the stage being the track on the album, would have been great,unique ,live is live.

still , it is still my favourite album.

Concerning the vocals -if you listen to the audience tapes of MSG I can understand Jagger wanted to replace the lead vocals on several songs. He does sound out of breath at places, and he does sing out of tune here and there.

Take the GS HTW for example. On the chorus both Richards and Jagger don't reach the high notes precisely, rendering it not comepletely out of tune, but just a bit off, something you would not want to release on a live album. Same for the GS JJF: Taylor is out of tune for the first minute and would have needed overdubbing if you want to use it on an album, and Jagger's 'it's alright' during the verses is also off.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


I know about the many vocal overdubs. A weak point indeed.

Those meds really have @#$%& with your head.

I guess kleerie isn't too crazy about Keith wiping Taylor's rhythm guitar off LQ either

who is , really, since there's nothing wrong with it in the first place!
the same with the vocals on every track ,(MR LIV proves the point)
imagine the HTW with the girl crashing the stage being the track on the album, would have been great,unique ,live is live.

still , it is still my favourite album.

Concerning the vocals -if you listen to the audience tapes of MSG I can understand Jagger wanted to replace the lead vocals on several songs. He does sound out of breath at places, and he does sing out of tune here and there.

Take the GS HTW for example. On the chorus both Richards and Jagger don't reach the high notes precisely, rendering it not comepletely out of tune, but just a bit off, something you would not want to release on a live album. Same for the GS JJF: Taylor is out of tune for the first minute and would have needed overdubbing if you want to use it on an album, and Jagger's 'it's alright' during the verses is also off.

Mathijs

The vocals may not be perfect, just like Taylor's guitar on JJF, but that is no excuse for overdubs at all. It's just live and then it's all in the game. Anyway, who cares. A bit out of tune is no problem at all. Live perfection doesn't exist, thank god. That's just one of its many charms. Besides, the mass wouldn't hear it at all! Only some musicians with very good ears and a low tolerance level.

"I mean, even WE'VE been influenced by the Velvet Underground ... I'll tell you exactly what we pinched from (Lou Reed) too. You know Stray Cat Blues? The whole sound and the way it's paced, we pinched from the very first Velvet Underground album. You know, the sound on Heroin. Honest to God, we did!" — Mick Jagger, 1977
From [www.timeisonourside.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-16 22:25 by Title5Take1.

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pinkfloydthebarber

i m not saying the song offends my sensibilities. i m saying jagger wrote it purposely to provoke the social norms of the times, to which the rock and roll lifestyle did not conform

what i mean by 'stupid' is the lyrical content of the track IS stupid - underage sex - is stupid like how jaggers lyrics in 'dancing with mr d' are insipidly stupid, when he tried to push the whole spooky devil crap for a little too long

1.thats an incredibly naive take on stray cat blues.mick was more than likely giving a description of not only a true story,but one that probably played out in his living room on many occasions.
in those days giving the girls ages would have been more of a come on to other young girls than an attempt to be outrageous.as far as it being "stupid" -you do realise what the term "rock and roll" means right?

2.the lyrics in dancing with mr d have nothing,zero,zilch zip to do with satanic imagery,the devil or anything of the sort.

Actually it seems to be a common misconception that Mr D = the Devil, as opposed to Death.