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Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: varilla ()
Date: July 29, 2013 22:56

Did he use UFIP all his life?
Since when did he adopted the china crash?

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Carnaby ()
Date: July 30, 2013 06:57

That all started in the 80's. Story is that Charlie found the 16" UFIP flat top ride in a music store in Paris. Charlie used the 20" China in the early 80's and late 70's on Emotional Rescue, not sure if the 20" was a UFIP. By the time of Steel Wheels, he was using an UFIP 18" China. The China now on his far right with the rivets, possibly the one once used on the B Stage, most likely isn't a UFIP, just a hunch. He uses that 20" with the rivets with his jazz groups also. Richard King at Kings Music in Annapolis is the one to ask about all this. If you want what Charlie has, he'll find it for you, right down to the correct year. [www.kingsmusicusa.com]

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: July 30, 2013 10:25

UFIP Pro Cussion B8 18" flat ride from the mid to late 60's, found in Paris in 1978/1979, used until 2012 when it cracked. Replacement was found, and replicas where made by Zildjian.

Mathijs

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Stones Blah ()
Date: July 30, 2013 15:30

With the Stones he has added another cymbal to his kit. It sits to his left of the hi hats. Would be interesting if someone here has more info on this cymbal.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: varilla ()
Date: July 30, 2013 17:53

Thanks a lot Carnaby and all

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 31, 2013 19:18

Quote
varilla
Did he use UFIP all his life?
Since when did he adopted the china crash?

The crash came in the second sessions for SOME GIRLS.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 31, 2013 19:24

Here's this bit from a recent publishing...

I use a ’57 round badge natural maple wood Gretsch with The Stones. And with this and most of my jazz things I use a 1960 round badge, black, small kit. The Tony Williams, I call it. It’s the one Tony used. It was like his signature drum kit when he was with Miles. And that’s why I play it, because of him, really. And in Europe when I play I use a 1940 Radio King set with a big 24" bass drum, and huge tom toms. That’s because Axel’s brother is a drummer, and I borrow his drum kit. I have one too, actually, but I usually use his in Europe. And when I play in clubs in England and when I’m in New York I probably use a round badge Gretsch from the ’60s. I have the same hi-hat and ride cymbal with both, and I have a special cymbal, a Zildjian [Mel Lewis] Swish Knocker, and a thin crash that Zildjian gave me. My ride is an 18" UFiP flat ride, and I’ve never found one as good as it.

[www.drummagazine.com]

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 31, 2013 19:27




Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: July 31, 2013 23:29

Quote
Carnaby
That all started in the 80's. Story is that Charlie found the 16" UFIP flat top ride in a music store in Paris. Charlie used the 20" China in the early 80's and late 70's on Emotional Rescue, not sure if the 20" was a UFIP. By the time of Steel Wheels, he was using an UFIP 18" China. The China now on his far right with the rivets, possibly the one once used on the B Stage, most likely isn't a UFIP, just a hunch. He uses that 20" with the rivets with his jazz groups also. Richard King at Kings Music in Annapolis is the one to ask about all this. If you want what Charlie has, he'll find it for you, right down to the correct year. [www.kingsmusicusa.com]

Wow, that is so cool! I used to roam around Annapolis all the time, still visit every so often. I'll have to see if I can find Kings Music next time I'm there. I love the interesting connections you can pick up on at IORR, thanks Carnaby.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: August 1, 2013 02:44

Quote
GasLightStreet
Here's this bit from a recent publishing...

I use a ’57 round badge natural maple wood Gretsch with The Stones. And with this and most of my jazz things I use a 1960 round badge, black, small kit. The Tony Williams, I call it. It’s the one Tony used. It was like his signature drum kit when he was with Miles. And that’s why I play it, because of him, really. And in Europe when I play I use a 1940 Radio King set with a big 24" bass drum, and huge tom toms. That’s because Axel’s brother is a drummer, and I borrow his drum kit. I have one too, actually, but I usually use his in Europe. And when I play in clubs in England and when I’m in New York I probably use a round badge Gretsch from the ’60s.

[www.drummagazine.com]


Had one of those for a short time. A Slingerland.
There was a time in the late 60s when apart from Ludwig, Rogers and Slingerland drums were quite hip.I think my first kit was a used Premier cause I liked the sound and look of Kenney Jones' drums.
Thanx for that video, Gas . .

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Carnaby ()
Date: August 1, 2013 03:40

Quote
Mathijs
UFIP Pro Cussion B8 18" flat ride from the mid to late 60's, found in Paris in 1978/1979, used until 2012 when it cracked. Replacement was found, and replicas where made by Zildjian.

Mathijs

Everyone, myself included, thought that is a 18" flat top ride. It isn't, it is a 16". Look closely at photos. The current China is 18".

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 1, 2013 10:36

Quote
Carnaby
Quote
Mathijs
UFIP Pro Cussion B8 18" flat ride from the mid to late 60's, found in Paris in 1978/1979, used until 2012 when it cracked. Replacement was found, and replicas where made by Zildjian.

Mathijs

Everyone, myself included, thought that is a 18" flat top ride. It isn't, it is a 16". Look closely at photos. The current China is 18".

The guy who sent his UFIP flat ride to Watts after it had split last year states it is a 18", as does Zildjian, who made the replicas. I thought the China is 20".

Mathijs

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: August 1, 2013 14:38

Why did he send it to Watts? Haven't heard about that.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Carnaby ()
Date: August 1, 2013 23:13

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Carnaby
Quote
Mathijs
UFIP Pro Cussion B8 18" flat ride from the mid to late 60's, found in Paris in 1978/1979, used until 2012 when it cracked. Replacement was found, and replicas where made by Zildjian.

Mathijs

Everyone, myself included, thought that is a 18" flat top ride. It isn't, it is a 16". Look closely at photos. The current China is 18".

The guy who sent his UFIP flat ride to Watts after it had split last year states it is a 18", as does Zildjian, who made the replicas. I thought the China is 20".

Mathijs

Everyone thinks that. The flat ride is a 16". Since Steel Wheels it has been a 18" China. In the movie LSTNT he was using a 20" China.


Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: bailey ()
Date: August 2, 2013 00:24

Carnaby - I had a very close look at that flat ride at an a,b,c & d gig a few years ago. I can tell you for sure the cymbal I saw at that time was, as you say, a 16. It had no stamp on it, but yes, widely accepted as a Ufip.

Now - the plot thickens because this advert recently appeared on ebay; (Interesting read)

[www.ebay.co.uk]

Apparently, so the story goes - Ufip made 2 18's and 2 20" , flat rides, for Charlie to try. He liked both sizes and kept one of each. It could be that he uses one of those 18" flat rides now ???
I don't know where Mathijs gets his information from, but that flat ride does not have a Zildjian stamp.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-02 00:46 by bailey.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 2, 2013 02:52

Quote
Carnaby
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Carnaby
Quote
Mathijs
UFIP Pro Cussion B8 18" flat ride from the mid to late 60's, found in Paris in 1978/1979, used until 2012 when it cracked. Replacement was found, and replicas where made by Zildjian.

Mathijs

Everyone, myself included, thought that is a 18" flat top ride. It isn't, it is a 16". Look closely at photos. The current China is 18".

The guy who sent his UFIP flat ride to Watts after it had split last year states it is a 18", as does Zildjian, who made the replicas. I thought the China is 20".

Mathijs

Everyone thinks that. The flat ride is a 16". Since Steel Wheels it has been a 18" China. In the movie LSTNT he was using a 20" China.


Are we talking about the same ride? I meant the ride on the far left, with the bigger cup, not the 16 inch crash he is hitting in this picture.

Mathijs

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: varilla ()
Date: August 2, 2013 20:18

Where does Charlie keeps all his gear? Does he have a drum kit at home?

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: August 2, 2013 21:01

.



Edited 15 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-25 22:05 by schillid.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: August 2, 2013 21:11

What happened to the bald spot on the back of his head?

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: August 2, 2013 22:54

hopefully it's kleerer now... I edited my post above...

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: Carnaby ()
Date: March 25, 2020 20:47

Quote
bailey
Carnaby - I had a very close look at that flat ride at an a,b,c & d gig a few years ago. I can tell you for sure the cymbal I saw at that time was, as you say, a 16. It had no stamp on it, but yes, widely accepted as a Ufip.

Now - the plot thickens because this advert recently appeared on ebay; (Interesting read)

[www.ebay.co.uk]

Apparently, so the story goes - Ufip made 2 18's and 2 20" , flat rides, for Charlie to try. He liked both sizes and kept one of each. It could be that he uses one of those 18" flat rides now ???
I don't know where Mathijs gets his information from, but that flat ride does not have a Zildjian stamp.

Rare 16" UFIP flat ride


Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Date: March 25, 2020 21:55

I'm probably in the minority, but I much prefer Charlie PRE-China crash. The cymbal crash sound itself, prominent on the ER album. But it sort of seemed to change his overall playing, the sound coming from his drums.
And it is baffling when listening to Charlie speak of music, and drums, and what he himself cherishes; smoothness and style. There is something very harsh about a China Crash.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: TheBadRabbit ()
Date: March 26, 2020 08:06

Quote
varilla
Where does Charlie keeps all his gear? Does he have a drum kit at home?

I seem to remember reading a bit from Charlie some years ago where he was talking about his dislike of touring, and he said something like: "If I want to play my drums, I have to go on the road with the band. I can't play them at home." The Stones used to have a facility in London (Bermondsey, I think) where they stored gear. Not sure if that's still the case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-26 08:12 by TheBadRabbit.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 26, 2020 22:25

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I'm probably in the minority, but I much prefer Charlie PRE-China crash. The cymbal crash sound itself, prominent on the ER album. But it sort of seemed to change his overall playing, the sound coming from his drums.
And it is baffling when listening to Charlie speak of music, and drums, and what he himself cherishes; smoothness and style. There is something very harsh about a China Crash.

It's a bit interesting, regarding the China crash, going from BLACK AND BLUE (the last LP without any China crash) through UNDERCOVER (the first LP with all China crash) because it's only on 2 SOME GIRLS tracks (Some Girls, Respectable - it's not on any of the SG DELUXE tracks), all of the EMOTIONAL RESCUE tracks (except the title track - no cymbals, just hi-hat flares - extreme reduced playing! And just a few clean crash and ride cymbal taps on All About You) including all versions of Dance and Tallahassee Lassie, and from the sound of it, he hits it once on Let Me Go and he hits it once in on Indian Girl - lots of hi-hat flares.

A LOT of hi-hat flares all over EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

TATOO YOU - it's only on Hang Fire, Neighbours and, although it sounds like it was tapped on for Heaven, it's impossible to tell if it's on No Use In Crying since Charlie is playing minimally with hi-hat flares on that one (another ER leftover), so 3 TY tracks for certain.

It's not on Little T&A, which can suggest its bottom is from the front portion of the SOME GIRLS sessions, with some guitar overdubs during the SG sessions - obviously it was worked on in 1979.

So whenever the latter portion of the SG sessions was, I'm guessing early 1978, and through the 1979 band recordings, Charlie didn't use it a whole lot, and only truly started using it in 1982 for the U sessions.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: vertigojoe ()
Date: March 27, 2020 14:13

Quote
TheBadRabbit
Quote
varilla
Where does Charlie keeps all his gear? Does he have a drum kit at home?

I seem to remember reading a bit from Charlie some years ago where he was talking about his dislike of touring, and he said something like: "If I want to play my drums, I have to go on the road with the band. I can't play them at home." The Stones used to have a facility in London (Bermondsey, I think) where they stored gear. Not sure if that's still the case.

A couple more tours and he should be able to move out of the terraced house with the pain in the ass neighbours who yell at him to keep his bloody noise down.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: MelBelli ()
Date: March 27, 2020 14:43

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I'm probably in the minority, but I much prefer Charlie PRE-China crash. The cymbal crash sound itself, prominent on the ER album. But it sort of seemed to change his overall playing, the sound coming from his drums.
And it is baffling when listening to Charlie speak of music, and drums, and what he himself cherishes; smoothness and style. There is something very harsh about a China Crash.

It's a bit interesting, regarding the China crash, going from BLACK AND BLUE (the last LP without any China crash) through UNDERCOVER (the first LP with all China crash) because it's only on 2 SOME GIRLS tracks (Some Girls, Respectable - it's not on any of the SG DELUXE tracks), all of the EMOTIONAL RESCUE tracks (except the title track - no cymbals, just hi-hat flares - extreme reduced playing! And just a few clean crash and ride cymbal taps on All About You) including all versions of Dance and Tallahassee Lassie, and from the sound of it, he hits it once on Let Me Go and he hits it once in on Indian Girl - lots of hi-hat flares.

A LOT of hi-hat flares all over EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

TATOO YOU - it's only on Hang Fire, Neighbours and, although it sounds like it was tapped on for Heaven, it's impossible to tell if it's on No Use In Crying since Charlie is playing minimally with hi-hat flares on that one (another ER leftover), so 3 TY tracks for certain.

It's not on Little T&A, which can suggest its bottom is from the front portion of the SOME GIRLS sessions, with some guitar overdubs during the SG sessions - obviously it was worked on in 1979.

So whenever the latter portion of the SG sessions was, I'm guessing early 1978, and through the 1979 band recordings, Charlie didn't use it a whole lot, and only truly started using it in 1982 for the U sessions.

Neighbors is such a strange and amazing drum track. Some kind of phasing of the snare? Charlie’s right hand basically disappears from the mix until you can hear him on the ride cymbal toward the end.

Re: Charlie´s Cymbals
Posted by: MelBelli ()
Date: March 27, 2020 14:59

... “Sympathy for the Drummer” Has a great chapter on the China cymbal. I’m a big fan. What Charlie plays as the title track of “Some Girls” fades out blows my mind every time. Every amateur basher who thinks Charlie is stiff and simple — try to play that right now.



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