I feel that the greatest loss for the Stones has been Bill Wyman. Irreplaceable. Yes in the studio, everybody in the Muscian's union has played Bass on a Stones' recording. But only one man eventually was there when they were shaped into timeless warhorses on stage. Reinvented, dynamics changed, showpieces.
On Ya-Ya's "Midnight Rambler" the rhythm section is absolutely awesome. One hears exactly what Keith, Wyman, Charlie and Ron always have talked about: the makeup of the Stonestrain. First Keith, then Charlie and last but never least the oddest bassplayer in Rock Bill Wyman. He was never a groove player, yet not a guitarplayer's bassist. Who is basically playing a guitar with four strings. He doesn't lead the groove but tags behind. But it made for the untouchable groove that is the Stones.
The divorce of the band and Wyman IMO has hurt both of them. Wyman plays different now. A lot straighter; he doesn't jibe around no more. The 78 and 81 tours were Wyman at his best. He was much like Taylore in his domain. Just never hit a wrong note. And let's not forget Wyman's input in the early days; during the first 5 years.
The Stones have suffered a knockout punch. DJ is a session player; very adequate. Actually more than that but colorless. His 4 by 4 thumping is a parody of whiteboy rock playing. Even his "solo" on spots like Stray Cat Blues are so...Modern Bass 101. I don't dislike DJ, but he is so bad for the already ailing Stonessound. Keith's minimal involvment in the conducting of the band, Ronnie's absence on many nights, coupled with Leavell owning Jagger's ear has made for much of these "Vegas" styling we talk about.
Do you guys think in the studio they should do the Bas themselves? And if Leavell leaves (like he might do) do you think ther is any chance in hell they would go for another Basplayer? I always thought Joey Spampinato would have been excellent. I never understood how anyone could seriously have considered Entwhistle for this role. He was everything that did not fit with the Stones chemistry.

i agree.... i wish someone would talk to bill.. it be great if he went into the studio just for the album...i know they won't call him...sad.. bill along with charlie helped form the stones sound.. be nice to have it return with bill..
if someone out there knows keith's number..have keith call bill and ask him to return?

Amen

hot stuff Wrote:
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> if someone out there knows keith's number..have
> keith call bill and ask him to return?

Bill has zero interest in the Stones since his departure.

Hey...whilst your there keef could give ol Taylor a call as well....Doh! Started that bloomin one again...bugger.

"Bill has zero interest in the Stones since his departure."

Well, maybe as being an active member of it nowadays, but surely not of keeping the memory alive of its heyday... man who does not have any interest of the Stones do not write books of them, or run a restaurant based on the Stones stuff. Although refusing to sign any Stones stuff, the guy loves way too much talk about the subject and as a an pro collector and amateur historian he seem to have taken a sort of researcher's loving attitude of the past of the band, and his years with it. But it is totally a 'past' to him. Dead and gone, now investigated and interpreted.

And what goes for the original topic, absolutely yes, his lost was musically the worst lost of the The Rolling Stones ever. With him went one essential part of their sound and groove. Of their engine.

- Doxa

AGAIN, I AGREE! bill played bass diferent from anyone else..mostly because he had such small fingers.. he couldn't play it like most did..so the sound came out better i think..
i also think bill would jump at the chance to play on the new stones album.
i know he hates to fly, so i don't think we see him on tour again..if keith or mick called him, i'm sure he return to make the album!

i too feel the stones lost a lot when bil retired... they sure miss him even more than they missed stu after he died!

Bill on Miss You and Just My Imagination is awesome.

But did he have vibrato??


- Koen.

CD's post is very persuasive. hard to disagree. Bill was the bassist for the Stones. End of story...except when he retired the Stones didn't want the story to end. also another thing about BW is that, as far as anyone knows, didn't he invent the fretless electric bass? not that he set out to do that...but his little homemade bass was fretless. don't know of anyone else playing an electric fretless in 1962-3?
but he absolutely instinctively knew how to play with Charlie and Keith. He listened.
I think Darryl listens too. He's their touring bassist, and they like him, he fits in.
I feel its kind of unfair to compare Bill and Darryl...BW has had such a long recording and touring history, with one band...DJ on the other hand has always been a solid pro sideman, for many major artists.

Bill Wyman can't be replaced, too bad Ronnie Lane is no longer around.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

All true re BW.

As far as DJ is concerned, he is a wonderful bassist. He has it all. Just listen to some of his work out of the stones. His problem with the stones is that he is not a "rock" bassist. DJ shines on numbers like Knocking, Rambler, Dance, Hot Stuff, Miss You, Monkey (not the solo). But on plain rock numbers he just goes for the "4 by 4 thumping" (which is unlistenable!). Then again, the whole band is rather sick and tired of plain rock numbers, and sure you can hear it live, but the show must go on, and you can't give up Sugar, Shelter, Satisfaction etc ...

C

You're absolutely right CD. For work in the studio (assuming Bill is out of the question) I'd go for Keith. He plays different and his parts fit well. His playing on Voodoo Lounge on Brand new car, where the bass drops in on the second verse, is really great.

To me, the Stones should have quit in 1993 when Bill left. When you listen to concerts from the 70's you'll hear the Charlie&Bill tandem is the key to Stones music, even more so than Keith Richards is. Bill always tried to emulate the sound of an upright bass in the vein of Willy Dixon and James Jamerson, playing on the beat leaving spaces for Keith to play before and after the beat. In this way, it all connected. DJ is a true black bassist, playing much more in the vein of Sly and the Family Stone and 70's jazz fusion. His sound and technique are way to fluent and swift for the Stones. Instead of leaving spaces for the rest to fill, he fills everything with pumping notes or runs and fills. I watched the India DVD recently, and Keith and Ron weren't having there best days, leaving Darryl to do most of the work. I really did find it was horrible. I never really understood why they hired Darryl to be the bassist. My only guess is that they didn't want a Bill look-a-like. People like Pino Palladino would have been so much better for the Stones, and even Blondie Chaplin can play an encredible bass -listen to his solo work and his bass on Low Down.

Mathijs

Who is Pino Palladino?

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

He toured with The Who in 2002, after Entwhistle had died.

Totally agree. In my opion Bill is very underestimated and people who say that he couldn't play that well or say that the Stones didn't miss him since he left, have no understanding of the Stones-music or bass playing in general.
His best period was '78 - '82, especially at Hampton '81 (Just my Imagination, Let it Bleed etc.)
I think the Stones would do best with having Ron or Keith playing the bass in the studio.
And please get rid of DJ!

The great thing about Keith on Bass is that interprets the function of the Bass differently from most other people. Like someone mentioned earlier about the verse in Brand New Car where he lays out. It is one of the best uses of the Bass to NOT use it in spots. There is the unwritten holy law in recorded rock that snare, kick and Bass should be omnipresent. Bollox. The first verse to @#$%& flows without Bass and with the second the Bass comes in. Similar on HTW. Keith's basslines are always very airy and rubbery. He also loves using Uprite. So I hope Keith and Ron who excels in his own ways run the bottom dept on this new album.
I agree with Mathijs about DJ's playing. Just way too busy. And there is just NO PERSONALITY to his playing. Even when he supposedly steps out like on SCB or IYCRM.
And when is he gonna lose some weight? You know Stones are supposed to be trim and lean and mean. And NO BEARDS!!!

CD, I love the no beards part! Hey, I just listened to "It's All Over Now" the bass lines are killer, check it out. Sounds like a distorted electric, is that Wyman? It sounds like it could be Willie Dixon, no shit!

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Well ChelseaDrugstore, I'am in toltal agreement with you concernig Bill's bass playing. He played an superb and swinging ballroom bass. But DJ isn't as bad as he used to be considered. He's a wonderfull rhythm section player, and he plays very much like Bill. But unfortunately he doesn't fit into the line-up. But it was a consequent decission of the band members! Why? Well, the band members are all british but the whole rest of the band are americans, so in this way DJ was the rihgt decission for them.
But what do you think of my folling dream?
Take MT back on guitar, and let's Ronny play the bass! Originally he did some great bass tunes with the Jeff Beck group nin the sixties and he also played some good bass tunes fore the Glimmer Twins! So what do you think about that?

Keep on rollin'
Gangster

"Take MT back on guitar, and let's Ronny play the bass!"

Nice idea, and in a line with the old gospel that "let the weakest guitarist play tha bass", but I am afraid that playing the bass asks so much decication, constanct concentration and stability that our Ronnie is not the right man for the job in his recent condition (neither is Keef)...you know, stop playing for some three songs and doing funny faces is not the best way to handle that job..

- Doxa

And by the way, does anyone know is there any truth in the claim that Mick and Keith were so desparate in keeping Bill in the band that they were offering him co-credits for "Jumping Jack Flash" to keep him on the board?

- Doxa

Gangster-of-love Wrote:
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> Well ChelseaDrugstore, I'am in toltal agreement
> with you concernig Bill's bass playing. He played
> an superb and swinging ballroom bass. But DJ isn't
> as bad as he used to be considered. He's a
> wonderfull rhythm section player, and he plays
> very much like Bill. But unfortunately he doesn't
> fit into the line-up. But it was a consequent
> decission of the band members! Why? Well, the band
> members are all british but the whole rest of the
> band are americans, so in this way DJ was the
> rihgt decission for them.

Blondie Chaplin is South African, as far as I know!

> But what do you think of my folling dream?
> Take MT back on guitar, and let's Ronny play the
> bass! Originally he did some great bass tunes with
> the Jeff Beck group nin the sixties and he also
> played some good bass tunes fore the Glimmer
> Twins! So what do you think about that?


wont work. Keith doesnt want to play with Taylor. The Stones have a certain 'style' now and they're not going to change it at this stage.
It amuses me that people think simply because he's an ex-band member that Taylor is the automatic choice to replace Woody on guitar should be move to bass (a fanciful notion) or, God forbid, anything happen to him. The more likely scenario would be bringing in someone of a similar style. It wouldnt be Mick Taylor, despite his 'vibrato' and any other technical merits.

Taylor is going to coma back, and Wyman too. And there will be three lead guitarrists. And the whole band will live in a treehouse together and wear matching vests. They will also have a secert handshake and a lookout who whistles when intruders like the Beatles gang or the U2 Boyz come by to perpetrate. Sho you're right!

Thanks, Chelsea Drugstore. I must admit that I have always underestimated the musicianship of Bill Wyman and his part of the unique Stones-groove.
Now I miss him.

Cheers,
Gunnar

i agree and why cant keith and ronnie turn up their @#$%& guitars and turn down the keyboards and horns

wayno, when I saw The Stones in Nashville 2002 Keith's guitar was loud as hell, (I loved it!). When he walked out onto the stage and played a few chords it shook the place. It was perfect! The badboy of rock still comes to play.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.