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seitan

Yes, many Russians are wrong in this case. Just like lot of people in North Korea support their dictator, - it's called "fear" my son.

Many people here just think of Pussy Riot only as hooligans, not relating this case to freedom of speech at all. Well the sentence was too severe I have to admit.

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seitan
Yes, many Russians are wrong in this case. Just like lot of people in North Korea support their dictator, - it's called "fear" my son.

That's what you think, but i doubt you have a serious culture or understanding of Russia. I know Russian people, went out with a Russian girl, and they perfectly understand the jail sentence for the PR. Above all, they hate being patronized by foreigners who know nothing about their country but keep on telling them how to think and what to do... typical imperialist mindset.

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AP
Many people here just think of Pussy Riot only as hooligans, not relating this case to freedom of speech at all. Well the sentence was too severe I have to admit.

They were not jailed for speaking, they were jailed for messing around in a cathedral.


Again, very little knowledge about the reality of Russian society here, apart from what your TV channel told you... the PR members acted before in a group ( Google "Voina") which regularly organized public events against Putin or the regime... they were never jailed for that. Sorry...

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beepee2

Again, very little knowledge about the reality of Russian society here, apart from what your TV channel told you... the PR members acted before in a group ( Google "Voina") which regularly organized public events against Putin or the regime... they were never jailed for that. Sorry...

I live in Russia so I'm aware of this. "Here" in my post above meant "in Russia".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 17:10 by AP.

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seitan

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svt22

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seitan

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Torres
Is it just my impression, or is this a political thread?

No - it's a thread about rockstars who have backbone, balls and guts and common sense.

What about the Amazon rainforest ? It's gone in 25 years. This Pussy Riot is just a futility compared to that.

What about Amazon rainforests - what does that have to do with this thread ? Nothing, - Yeah, Please dont be cynical and lazy. Rainforests have nothing to do with Pussy Riot and are trivial to this thread. Or lack of cancer research in society. Cancer is a disease that's killing millions of people on a daily basis, but cancer and Amazon are a another subject matter. If you wanna talk about rainforest, homeless, Aids or Crack Smoking - go right ahead, and make your own thread, but those things dont make human rights issues like Pussy Riot case unimportant or futile.
Just because you dont care about rise of fascism in Soviet Union - it doesnt make Pussy Riot case unimportant. I actually find lack of cancer research lot more horrible than the condition of rainforests...but this thread is about Pussy Riot.
If you have nothing to say about Pussy Riot - go away.

Your tone reminds me of a Stalin tirade though..

Right, so if there's no freedom of speech in Russia, can you explain how they could have performed so many public demonstrations against Putin without being jailed ?

They then decided to learn guitar in 2 days and change name but that's still the same stuff... (those who compared with the Pistols havent understood anything to the story)

I love people talking about Russia...

Hey guys, have you ever live there? I mean not as tourists.

BBC and CNN pictures do not cover the real life, you know



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 17:34 by ironbelly.

Ok i've found an analogy.

Say you are English, or Finnish.

A far-right party organizes a petition, or a demonstration, say for Christmas, in order to celebrate Christian roots of your country. They want to celebrate Christmas. That's fine, isn't it ? Seitan would say "it's good to celebrate Christmas and have rockstars who have guts and dare celebrating Christmas".

Of course the real agenda is to antagonize Muslims populations and to re-emphasize the "Christian" heritage/culture, as a subtle way to convey a message throughout a very basic and neutral event.

Would you go/sign with them, knowing the real reasons behind this apparently very trivial event ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 17:41 by beepee2.

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Roscoe

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MILKYWAY

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mr_dja

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Torres
Is it just my impression, or is this a political thread?

As long as no one disagrees, it's not politics or political. Right now it's simply propaganda. Give it time, someone will eventually post something negative & the thread will quickly turn political and be closed.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Not an optimist?

I do miss mitchflorida.

I see his moniker from time to time on The Washington Post's web site. Political stories, of course. Can't say for sure it's the same guy but based on the tone of the comments it's highly likely.

Another Me! How cool! Actually, due to your mentinoning that you see the moniker "from time to time", I'm pretty sure it's not me and now that I'm thinking that someone who has a similar writing tone to me would come up with the same moniker as I did (I wonder why they chose it as it's not actually my initals as most people think) is kind of scarry. Who knows though, except for the fact that I rarely post anywhere but here and rarely, if ever, more than once (I can't seem to remember where I stash the user name/password combinations) for all I know it could've been me that you read. If it was actually me, hopefully I wasn't to offensive!

Peace,
Mr DJA

Believe it or not. I actually went a year without sex due to an emotional break-up just because monetary success was not in the mix at time. That was numerous years ago. However, Pussy Riots are more important than Trayvon Martin riots.

First of all, in no way do I believe the way that Russia is being run by Putin is in any way fair, just or "morally" right, and I certainly believe in the right of any citizen of a country to have the right to freely and openly criticise their government

But - consider a situation in which a band (genre & gender irrelevant) had gatecrashed a well-attended religious service in St Pauls Cathedral (or Washington National Cathedral, Notre-Dame Cathedral etc) and performed a song which insulted the parentage of the country's elected leader and called that leader a c**t in front of all present.

Does anybody really think in that scenario that the members of the band in would NOT be prosecuted and given relatively severe sentences?

I think if the same situation occurred in the UK, US, France etc that an equally stringent sentence woud be imposed to "make an example" of the perpetrators.

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eraser
First of all, in no way do I believe the way that Russia is being run by Putin is in any way fair, just or "morally" right, and I certainly believe in the right of any citizen of a country to have the right to freely and openly criticise their government

But - consider a situation in which a band (genre & gender irrelevant) had gatecrashed a well-attended religious service in St Pauls Cathedral (or Washington National Cathedral, Notre-Dame Cathedral etc) and performed a song which insulted the parentage of the country's elected leader and called that leader a c**t in front of all present.

Does anybody really think in that scenario that the members of the band in would NOT be prosecuted and given relatively severe sentences?

I think if the same situation occurred in the UK, US, France etc that an equally stringent sentence woud be imposed to "make an example" of the perpetrators.

I'm not into religous propaganda -However the new Pope kicks ass

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eraser

Does anybody really think in that scenario that the members of the band in would NOT be prosecuted and given relatively severe sentences?

I think if the same situation occurred in the UK, US, France etc that an equally stringent sentence woud be imposed to "make an example" of the perpetrators.

As I said, relatively similar events happened in the UK (gilmour's son peeing on a war monument) and in France (people occupying a Mosque), that resulted in jail sentences, I'm not aware of worldwide petitions asking for their release and criticizing "authoritarian UK and French regimes"...

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beepee2

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AP
Many people here just think of Pussy Riot only as hooligans, not relating this case to freedom of speech at all. Well the sentence was too severe I have to admit.

They were not jailed for speaking, they were jailed for messing around in a cathedral.


Again, very little knowledge about the reality of Russian society here, apart from what your TV channel told you... the PR members acted before in a group ( Google "Voina") which regularly organized public events against Putin or the regime... they were never jailed for that. Sorry...

Actually - they were not arrested at the Cathedral either, - only after, when they posted their manifesto video on the Internet. They are convicted of “hooliganism motivated by religious hatred” -

I think that what Pussy Riot did in the Cathedral of Christ is the most Christian thing to do, it's what every religious person should do - A prayer. They had new form of prayer - and if you read your Bible you will realize that Jesus says "You can pray they way you want to." Jesus believed in forgiveness too, Love and forgiveness is the most important messages of Jesus and not jailing mothers in concentration camps while they have children at home.

As far as Amnesty International goes - they Pussy Riot girls are Prisoners of conscience (POC) -a term , the term refer to anyone imprisoned because of their political views. It also refers to those who have been imprisoned and/or persecuted for the non-violent expression of their conscientiously held beliefs.

I think Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyayev used the church to support the cultural position of Putin's government.

Russian Orthodox bishop is the only one who should be jailed here...and for turning Cathedral into a store.

Kirill has been profiteering and abusing the privilege of duty-free importation of cigarettes granted to the Church - where does it say in the Bible that you can turn a holy place into a cigarette store - but girls cannot sing and pray ?
Was selling cigarettes part of Jesus Christ ideology in the Bible ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 18:34 by seitan.

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mr_dja

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Roscoe

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MILKYWAY

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mr_dja

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Torres
Is it just my impression, or is this a political thread?

As long as no one disagrees, it's not politics or political. Right now it's simply propaganda. Give it time, someone will eventually post something negative & the thread will quickly turn political and be closed.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Not an optimist?

I do miss mitchflorida.

I see his moniker from time to time on The Washington Post's web site. Political stories, of course. Can't say for sure it's the same guy but based on the tone of the comments it's highly likely.

Another Me! How cool! Actually, due to your mentinoning that you see the moniker "from time to time", I'm pretty sure it's not me and now that I'm thinking that someone who has a similar writing tone to me would come up with the same moniker as I did (I wonder why they chose it as it's not actually my initals as most people think) is kind of scarry. Who knows though, except for the fact that I rarely post anywhere but here and rarely, if ever, more than once (I can't seem to remember where I stash the user name/password combinations) for all I know it could've been me that you read. If it was actually me, hopefully I wasn't to offensive!

Peace,
Mr DJA

My post was referring to the 'mitchflorida' moniker.

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beepee2
Right, so if there's no freedom of speech in Russia, can you explain how they could have performed so many public demonstrations against Putin without being jailed ?

They then decided to learn guitar in 2 days and change name but that's still the same stuff... (those who compared with the Pistols havent understood anything to the story)

Maybe you should get your facts straight, members of Voina have been arrested for demonstrations. Who compared them with Pistols, I've never heard that before...

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beepee2
Ok i've found an analogy.

Say you are English, or Finnish.

A far-right party organizes a petition, or a demonstration, say for Christmas, in order to celebrate Christian roots of your country. They want to celebrate Christmas. That's fine, isn't it ? Seitan would say "it's good to celebrate Christmas and have rockstars who have guts and dare celebrating Christmas".

Of course the real agenda is to antagonize Muslims populations and to re-emphasize the "Christian" heritage/culture, as a subtle way to convey a message throughout a very basic and neutral event.

Would you go/sign with them, knowing the real reasons behind this apparently very trivial event ?

I spend my christmas holidays with my family, thank you and I'm sure the right wingers do the same. But I cannot see any similarity between right wingers having a christmas party and Pussy Riot case. You really dont have a point here, now do you ??

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seitan
I think Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyayev used the church to support the cultural position of Putin's government.

Russian Orthodox bishop is the only one who should be jailed here...and for turning Cathedral into a store.

Kirill has been profiteering and abusing the privilege of duty-free importation of cigarettes granted to the Church - where does it say in the Bible that you can turn a holy place into a cigarette store - but girls cannot sing and pray ?
Was selling cigarettes part of Jesus Christ ideology in the Bible ?

I fully agree with you regarding Kirill. But at the same time I think that Pussy Riot did bad and stupid thing.

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AP

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seitan
I think Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyayev used the church to support the cultural position of Putin's government.

Russian Orthodox bishop is the only one who should be jailed here...and for turning Cathedral into a store.

Kirill has been profiteering and abusing the privilege of duty-free importation of cigarettes granted to the Church - where does it say in the Bible that you can turn a holy place into a cigarette store - but girls cannot sing and pray ?
Was selling cigarettes part of Jesus Christ ideology in the Bible ?

I fully agree with you regarding Kirill. But at the same time I think that Pussy Riot did bad and stupid thing.

Being young and stupid is not a crime. Actually..if you read the bible, Jesus was furious when holy temple was turned into business place too. Jesus talked about forgiveness - so where is the forgiveness to Pussy Riot for being young and stupid and furious at Kirill ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 19:13 by seitan.

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seitan
But I cannot see any similarity between right wingers having a christmas party and Pussy Riot case.

I expected you wouldn't. Let me put some more explanation around it.

1 - Some people may open up a petition with seemingly acceptable purposes, releasing the PR, or celebrating Christmas, or celebrating a saint (Yoan of Arc in France)...

2 - However, the real agenda and reasons behind this could be completely different from releasing the PR, or celebrating Christmas, or celebrating Yoan of Arc.

3 - Would you still contribute in those events, knowing that the real reasons and intentions are far from what's on the label ?

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seitan
They had new form of prayer - and if you read your Bible you will realize that Jesus says "You can pray they way you want to."

The problem is, Russian's law is not defined by what's in the Bible...

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beepee2

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seitan
They had new form of prayer - and if you read your Bible you will realize that Jesus says "You can pray they way you want to."

The problem is, Russian's law is not defined by what's in the Bible...

I know that, it's more like dictators rule and it has nothing to do with christian values, and that's why it's so hypocritical, fake and pretentious to be upset about teenage mother's praying and singin in the church - they didnt even break things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 19:32 by seitan.

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beepee2

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seitan
But I cannot see any similarity between right wingers having a christmas party and Pussy Riot case.

I expected you wouldn't. Let me put some more explanation around it.

1 - Some people may open up a petition with seemingly acceptable purposes, releasing the PR, or celebrating Christmas, or celebrating a saint (Yoan of Arc in France)...

2 - However, the real agenda and reasons behind this could be completely different from releasing the PR, or celebrating Christmas, or celebrating Yoan of Arc.

3 - Would you still contribute in those events, knowing that the real reasons and intentions are far from what's on the label ?

The way Putin runs Russia, including making homosexuality crime - I would endorse anyone who wants to have non-violent protest against his government, and if they had non-violent protest during Ramada or Christmas, I really wouldnt give damn as long as nobody get's hurt. Hows that for an answer...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-24 19:31 by seitan.

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Roscoe


My post was referring to the 'mitchflorida' moniker.

DOH!! Smacking my forehead now!



Peace,
Mr DJA

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seitan

The way Putin runs Russia, including making homosexuality crime -

Wow that's a new one...

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beepee2

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seitan
Yes, many Russians are wrong in this case. Just like lot of people in North Korea support their dictator, - it's called "fear" my son.

That's what you think, but i doubt you have a serious culture or understanding of Russia. I know Russian people, went out with a Russian girl, and they perfectly understand the jail sentence for the PR. Above all, they hate being patronized by foreigners who know nothing about their country but keep on telling them how to think and what to do... typical imperialist mindset.

I live in Finland, near the border, most of my friends are Russians and I have dated a Russian girl too...and do I really have to understand Homophobia, a country where you can be jailed for being gay. Just this week four Dutch film-makers were arrested for making a documentary movie about Russian gay underworld, a documentary !! - and that was considered a crime. Do I have to understand homophobia as serious culture.

Russia made it against the law to PROMOTE homosexuality, not being homosexual, it's a bit like being naked, you can be naked, but at home.

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beepee2

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seitan

The way Putin runs Russia, including making homosexuality crime -

Wow that's a new one...

Not really - you just dont know anything about Russian culture.

Russia’s Parliament has backed a bill which outlaws the “propaganda of homosexuality in a move that will restrict fundamental human rights and is in breach of the country’s international obligations to protect lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) people from discrimination.

There is no legal definition in the Russian law of what constitutes ‘propaganda of homosexuality’ and the law could be interpreted very loosely. They are going to punish people for something which is perfectly legitimate – expressing themselves, being themselves.

That's what I said... the Parliament (ie. not Putin, for a start) doesn't homosexuality to be promoted in the street. That's very different from "making homosexuality a crime", words have a very specific meaning, especially in laws...