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IrixQuote
georgie48
It's not (was never) Ernie's (and since the Braun deal of 3 years was finished decades ago, not Braun's either). It was and is owned by The Rolling Stones .....
Do you mean in terms of ownership?
If so, then yes - because Ernie Cefalu was "only" a employee of the CraigBraunInc. (or the subsidiaries like Sound Packaging or Rockreations) and Craig Braun itself was the licensee for Musidor, the licensing company for the Rolling Stones.
"LICKS ® BY ROCKREATIONS TM MUSIDOR N.V." stamped on back:
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Irix
Craig Braun's personal story about designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo (8-Dec-2016):
"I had decided that because it was the Rolling Stones' first release under their own label after leaving Decca Records (London in U.S.), to use this logo on the cover", Craig says. "Mick had commissioned a young art school student [John Pasche, who has since earned six figures for his sketches] in London to design a logo, but he had not completed a design. He'd only completed some sketches, rough sketches of it. And Marshall Chess [...] was in London, and I said to him, 'I want to put the design on the inner sleeve.' He said, 'Well, all I have is a rubber stamp from the sketch!' So I said for him to stamp it a few times, put it on a fax which, on a thermal fax machine, the quality is just shit, but I could see the silhouette of it, where the art student was going, very fuzzy, and about 3/4 of an inch, so I blew that up to about 12" and I had an illustrator working for me and I said, 'I want you to re-draft this for me.' After many a back-and-forth, trial-and-error fleshing-out with the illustrator, the Rolling Stones' tongue and lip logo as we now know it was being hatched."
More: [www.Amoeba.com] .
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roller99Quote
Irix
Craig Braun's personal story about designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo (8-Dec-2016):
"I had decided that because it was the Rolling Stones' first release under their own label after leaving Decca Records (London in U.S.), to use this logo on the cover", Craig says. "Mick had commissioned a young art school student [John Pasche, who has since earned six figures for his sketches] in London to design a logo, but he had not completed a design. He'd only completed some sketches, rough sketches of it. And Marshall Chess [...] was in London, and I said to him, 'I want to put the design on the inner sleeve.' He said, 'Well, all I have is a rubber stamp from the sketch!' So I said for him to stamp it a few times, put it on a fax which, on a thermal fax machine, the quality is just shit, but I could see the silhouette of it, where the art student was going, very fuzzy, and about 3/4 of an inch, so I blew that up to about 12" and I had an illustrator working for me and I said, 'I want you to re-draft this for me.' After many a back-and-forth, trial-and-error fleshing-out with the illustrator, the Rolling Stones' tongue and lip logo as we now know it was being hatched."
More: [www.Amoeba.com] .
Right there, the "illustrator working for me", is proof that Ernie did it. Both Pasche and Cefalu aren't debating which came first. And this quote by Braun pretty much obliviates Braun's claims elsewhere that he did it alone. What we have are 2 different versions, both official and independent. Ever hear the story of how Compaq reverse engineered the IBM PC? A guy in the middle saw the design and described it to another, with the result being that the finished product was almost identical, without the second designer ever having seen the IBM, thus isolating him from lawsuits.
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roller99
Right there, the "illustrator working for me", is proof that Ernie did it. Both Pasche and Cefalu aren't debating which came first. And this quote by Braun pretty much obliviates Braun's claims elsewhere that he did it alone. What we have are 2 different versions, both official and independent.
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IrixQuote
roller99
Right there, the "illustrator working for me", is proof that Ernie did it. Both Pasche and Cefalu aren't debating which came first. And this quote by Braun pretty much obliviates Braun's claims elsewhere that he did it alone. What we have are 2 different versions, both official and independent.
The Tongue&Lips-Logo as we know it from Sticky Fingers' 1st North American Edition 1971 was not designed by Ernie Cefalu nor by Craig Braun personally.
Ernie Cefalu: "For the record, I really didn't know that there was going to be a Lips and Tongue logo on the final album sleeve - the only time I saw any album art before it hit the stores was in Craig's office that Saturday when Marshall [Chess] showed me the comp and I had suggested that they use a real zipper. As for why they had a second version done for the final album art, it is a mystery to me. The logo that I did the finish on and that was used on all the merchandising was done by me well before the end of February of 1971." -- [rockpopgallery.typepad.com]
There're three official and quite independent Tongue&Lips-Logos: John Pasche's version (inner sleeve of Sticky Fingers' international Edition 1971), then Ernie Cefalu's version (for the Licks merchandise 1971 + other RS stuff later on) and last but not least the now most famous version as used on the inner sleeve of Sticky Fingers' 1st North American Edition 1971.
The question is: who had done (+ when) the version from the inner sleeve of Sticky Fingers' 1st North American Edition 1971 - and also: where does the striking resemblance to the 'Day Tripper'-Illustration (by Alan Aldridge, 1969) come from?
We have an expression here in the USA, "put up or shut up". If you have some info on this, put it out there. I'm having a good laugh at all the historians here who think they know what's what, when Ernie worked at Craig Braun's. Do any of you think your words will ever be taken more seriously than his? Not here, and certainly not in the real world, and certainly not when industry titans have vouched for him. Unless you are Mick or Marshall Chess, it ain't gonna happen, cause you weren't there. Rebut this all is you want, it's just wind from windbags. And at some point, I'll talk to Mick about this....Quote
georgie48Quote
roller99Quote
Irix
Craig Braun's personal story about designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo (8-Dec-2016):
"I had decided that because it was the Rolling Stones' first release under their own label after leaving Decca Records (London in U.S.), to use this logo on the cover", Craig says. "Mick had commissioned a young art school student [John Pasche, who has since earned six figures for his sketches] in London to design a logo, but he had not completed a design. He'd only completed some sketches, rough sketches of it. And Marshall Chess [...] was in London, and I said to him, 'I want to put the design on the inner sleeve.' He said, 'Well, all I have is a rubber stamp from the sketch!' So I said for him to stamp it a few times, put it on a fax which, on a thermal fax machine, the quality is just shit, but I could see the silhouette of it, where the art student was going, very fuzzy, and about 3/4 of an inch, so I blew that up to about 12" and I had an illustrator working for me and I said, 'I want you to re-draft this for me.' After many a back-and-forth, trial-and-error fleshing-out with the illustrator, the Rolling Stones' tongue and lip logo as we now know it was being hatched."
More: [www.Amoeba.com] .
Right there, the "illustrator working for me", is proof that Ernie did it. Both Pasche and Cefalu aren't debating which came first. And this quote by Braun pretty much obliviates Braun's claims elsewhere that he did it alone. What we have are 2 different versions, both official and independent. Ever hear the story of how Compaq reverse engineered the IBM PC? A guy in the middle saw the design and described it to another, with the result being that the finished product was almost identical, without the second designer ever having seen the IBM, thus isolating him from lawsuits.
Nice try, roller99 , but ..... the "illustrator working for me" was not Ernie, but Mr. V assisted by Braun and Mr. D. And it concerns the famous "USA" logo and ... it was done before Ernie joined. You can ask Ernie how many people were working for Braun's company. I wonder if he knows. Certainly "not only Ernie" ...
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roller99
I'll offer an olive branch here, because we're all here for the same reason; love of The Rolling Stones. I'm just trying to decode a mystery, and I think we should all be able to discuss this without resorting to accusations or heated arguments. So, if I offended, I apologize.
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georgie48Quote
IrixQuote
roller99
Right there, the "illustrator working for me", is proof that Ernie did it. Both Pasche and Cefalu aren't debating which came first. And this quote by Braun pretty much obliviates Braun's claims elsewhere that he did it alone. What we have are 2 different versions, both official and independent.
The Tongue&Lips-Logo as we know it from Sticky Fingers' 1st North American Edition 1971 was not designed by Ernie Cefalu nor by Craig Braun personally.
Ernie Cefalu: "For the record, I really didn't know that there was going to be a Lips and Tongue logo on the final album sleeve - the only time I saw any album art before it hit the stores was in Craig's office that Saturday when Marshall [Chess] showed me the comp and I had suggested that they use a real zipper. As for why they had a second version done for the final album art, it is a mystery to me. The logo that I did the finish on and that was used on all the merchandising was done by me well before the end of February of 1971." -- [rockpopgallery.typepad.com]
There're three official and quite independent Tongue&Lips-Logos: John Pasche's version (inner sleeve of Sticky Fingers' international Edition 1971), then Ernie Cefalu's version (for the Licks merchandise 1971 + other RS stuff later on) and last but not least the now most famous version as used on the inner sleeve of Sticky Fingers' 1st North American Edition 1971.
The question is: who had done (+ when) the version from the inner sleeve of Sticky Fingers' 1st North American Edition 1971 - and also: where does the striking resemblance to the 'Day Tripper'-Illustration (by Alan Aldridge, 1969) come from?
Don't worry Irix.
The answer to your questions is known. Some remark of yours about who did or didn't do certain things, is, let's say "not completely correct", but that isn't really important.
But there are a few very important people, we all love, who are the key to the revelation of the truth, so be patient. Some things can not be told "at the wrong time or place" in order to avoid some to take advantage of it for their own benefit.
By the way, I like the remark "The logo I did the finish on ..." by Ernie
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georgie48Quote
roller99
I'll offer an olive branch here, because we're all here for the same reason; love of The Rolling Stones. I'm just trying to decode a mystery, and I think we should all be able to discuss this without resorting to accusations or heated arguments. So, if I offended, I apologize.
What happened to the olive branch? It looks like you're back to zero with your latest mail. Don't get angry. I'm not a friend of Ernie, not of Craig either. I don't hate the guts out of Ernie nor Craig. I am not emotional on this subject, but .... not stupid either. Just like possibly/hopefully all of us who have followed this thread want to know the truth. Some apparently have a different purpose to use this thread ... wolves in sheep clothes?
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GasLightStreetQuote
Hairball
Officially and contractually it appears that way, but there's much more to the story than a piece of paper.
And for the record, I'm open to all interpretations and not taking sides, just calling it like I see it.
Cefalu's work sucks. Even Ray Charles can see that. As you said, like you see it. And what Ray Charles sees is a 4th grader's work.
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roller99Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Hairball
Officially and contractually it appears that way, but there's much more to the story than a piece of paper.
And for the record, I'm open to all interpretations and not taking sides, just calling it like I see it.
Cefalu's work sucks. Even Ray Charles can see that. As you said, like you see it. And what Ray Charles sees is a 4th grader's work.
Here's your earlier post. Now that Cefalu is here, maybe you'd care to back it up to his face?
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roller99We have an expression here in the USA, "put up or shut up". If you have some info on this, put it out there. I'm having a good laugh at all the historians here who think they know what's what, when Ernie worked at Craig Braun's. Do any of you think your words will ever be taken more seriously than his? Not here, and certainly not in the real world, and certainly not when industry titans have vouched for him. Unless you are Mick or Marshall Chess, it ain't gonna happen, cause you weren't there. Rebut this all is you want, it's just wind from windbags. And at some point, I'll talk to Mick about this....Quote
georgie48Quote
roller99Quote
Irix
Craig Braun's personal story about designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo (8-Dec-2016):
"I had decided that because it was the Rolling Stones' first release under their own label after leaving Decca Records (London in U.S.), to use this logo on the cover", Craig says. "Mick had commissioned a young art school student [John Pasche, who has since earned six figures for his sketches] in London to design a logo, but he had not completed a design. He'd only completed some sketches, rough sketches of it. And Marshall Chess [...] was in London, and I said to him, 'I want to put the design on the inner sleeve.' He said, 'Well, all I have is a rubber stamp from the sketch!' So I said for him to stamp it a few times, put it on a fax which, on a thermal fax machine, the quality is just shit, but I could see the silhouette of it, where the art student was going, very fuzzy, and about 3/4 of an inch, so I blew that up to about 12" and I had an illustrator working for me and I said, 'I want you to re-draft this for me.' After many a back-and-forth, trial-and-error fleshing-out with the illustrator, the Rolling Stones' tongue and lip logo as we now know it was being hatched."
More: [www.Amoeba.com] .
Right there, the "illustrator working for me", is proof that Ernie did it. Both Pasche and Cefalu aren't debating which came first. And this quote by Braun pretty much obliviates Braun's claims elsewhere that he did it alone. What we have are 2 different versions, both official and independent. Ever hear the story of how Compaq reverse engineered the IBM PC? A guy in the middle saw the design and described it to another, with the result being that the finished product was almost identical, without the second designer ever having seen the IBM, thus isolating him from lawsuits.
Nice try, roller99 , but ..... the "illustrator working for me" was not Ernie, but Mr. V assisted by Braun and Mr. D. And it concerns the famous "USA" logo and ... it was done before Ernie joined. You can ask Ernie how many people were working for Braun's company. I wonder if he knows. Certainly "not only Ernie" ...
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edog
Hello gaslight street and thank you for calling me a liar and a thief, very harsh words and accusations.
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GasLightStreet
Ernie Cefalu's logo is ugly. He talks too much. He probably stole the idea and said it was originally his.
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edog
I have been called worse by people much better than you.
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edog
As for myversion I don't think its ugly and either do The Stones, they keep using it. - Ernie
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edog
Truth Be Told And I Have said This Many Times Before, I Much Perfer John's Version Better Than Mine Because Mine Is Stilff And Corporate While John's Is More Annimated Like The Stones. But At The End Of The Day The Stones Used Them Both At Exactly The Same Time!
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GasLightStreetQuote
edog
Hello gaslight street and thank you for calling me a liar and a thief, very harsh words and accusations.
Harsh? You call this harsh? Accusations?Quote
GasLightStreet
Ernie Cefalu's logo is ugly. He talks too much. He probably stole the idea and said it was originally his.
It would be an accusation if I said you did steal it, which, as you can see since I provided what you're talking about, I did not say, hence "probably". I have said, basically, that you're a loon, that you have gotten credited wrongly for it (that's the famous logo, the one everyone knows), and that you've never once, as far as I've ever seen, made that clear. But, obviously, at this point, whatever.Quote
edog
I have been called worse by people much better than you.
Describe "better". There's a lot of loons and kooks here and everyone gets a bit kooky or loony at times, some way more than others.Quote
edog
As for myversion I don't think its ugly and either do The Stones, they keep using it. - Ernie
They have used it... but not very much. And it is ugly. What if they like it being ugly? Maybe that's why they used it on those shirts back then.
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GasLightStreet
Ernie, criticism of what you've done with your Stones logo is only that - a Stones fan thinks it stinks and was under the impression that you take credit for something you didn't do ie THE LOGO that you didn't do. So what if I don't like your logo. Roller99 is for some reason hurt by someone not liking your Stones logo. So what. What do you want me to do now that you're on here, tell you I was kidding and lie about it?
The logo everyone knows? Really? You have to ask that? THE LOGO. The one everyone knows - the John Pasche tweaked one The Rolling Stones use ALL THE TIME.
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edog
I Am The Man In The Arena... Which Of You, Will Stand With Me?
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasm, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows that in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
These words were spoken long ago by a very great man who I have tried to fashion my life after, which of you can say the same? Which of you is daring greatly? - Ernie
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roller99Quote
GasLightStreet
Ernie, criticism of what you've done with your Stones logo is only that - a Stones fan thinks it stinks and was under the impression that you take credit for something you didn't do ie THE LOGO that you didn't do. So what if I don't like your logo. Roller99 is for some reason hurt by someone not liking your Stones logo. So what. What do you want me to do now that you're on here, tell you I was kidding and lie about it?
The logo everyone knows? Really? You have to ask that? THE LOGO. The one everyone knows - the John Pasche tweaked one The Rolling Stones use ALL THE TIME.
Hurt? I'm not hurt by anything you could say. You said it sucked first, now you say you don't like it. There's a big difference between the two statements. One is a personal opinion, the other is a blanket statement. I think you have no balls and no credibility. First you said his art SUCKS, then you pared your comment down to just the tongue, now you say "I don't like it". You're very good at backpedalling....
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Naturalust
An interesting quote from the SabotageTimes Marshall chess interview about the tongue. He basically admits auditioning a variety of artists for the job, perhaps there is even more than Pasche and Cefalu out there?
JW: Wasn’t one of your first moves to come up with the idea of the famous lips-and-tongue logo for the band?
MC: The Stones were in Amsterdam. I landed at Rotterdam airport. I was driving along to meet the band and saw a Shell petrol station with the classic yellow logo. It was so beautifully simplistic. I mention this later when I’m sitting around with The Stones, saying that we should come up with a design that is totally recognisable without having the band’s name on it. Out of that conversation came the idea of having the tongue and lips. As label manager it was my job to audition a variety of artists who came up with an extraordinary variety of tongues. As soon as we saw John Pasche’s now famous design, there was no doubt that was the one and we bought it outright.
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edog
When I created my original version of The Stones Tongue I didn't work for Craig and I was not an employee. I was a freelancer. That being said I own my version art and its rights. So again georgie, you don't know what your talking about. Not to worry though you by no means are alone in your lack of the true facts! - Ernie