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GasLightStreet
roller99, JOHN PASCHE did The Rolling Stones logo. Craig Braun's company via Marshall Chess updated it.

That's it.

For THE LAST TIME, there is no other official logo creator than JOHN PASCHE.


Said.

Really Gaslight? You know any of these people? You sit in a room with them? Or you just read this somewhere? You have it backwards, Braun's company did the first design, Pasche updated it. Facts please, belligerncy will get you nowhere.

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GasLightStreet

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Hairball
Officially and contractually it appears that way, but there's much more to the story than a piece of paper.
And for the record, I'm open to all interpretations and not taking sides, just calling it like I see it.

Cefalu's work sucks. Even Ray Charles can see that. As you said, like you see it. And what Ray Charles sees is a 4th grader's work.

Really? It sucks does it? What have you done? Oh, never mind, it's not about you. I guess the Grammy nominations, art hanging in the Smithsonian, numerous other show, awards, and accolades mean his work sucks, right? I'm just laughing at you now, where before I was taking you somewhat seriously.

By the way, there's this (from 1970). Notice a resemblance?



Oh, and there's this from wikipedia:

At the end of 1970, Cefalu joined forces with Craig Braun, Inc. in New York, and worked on the 'Sticky Fingers' album as well as Grand Funk Railroad’s 'E Pluribus Funk.' Eight months later in mid 1971 he opened a satellite office in California for Braun, where he was the head Creative Director. There, he was the creative force behind a string of popular album covers for Alice Cooper’s 'School's Out,' and Cheech & Chong’s 'Big Bambu,' among others.

Cefalu opened his own agency, Pacific Eye & Ear, in January 1972. Over the next 15 years, he created another 194 album covers for rock legends such as The Doors, Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, The Bee Gees, The Guess Who, Black Sabbath, Jefferson Airplane, The Modern Jazz Quartet, Burton Cummings, Grand Funk Railroad, Iron Butterfly, and Black Oak Arkansas. Cefalu’s collaborations with then emerging illustrators such as Drew Struzan, Bill Garland, Joe Petagno, Carl Ramsey, Ingrid Haenke and Joe Garnet led Pacific Eye & Ear's quest to become one of the top album design companies in the country.

Yeah, uh, he really sucks. What's your claim to fame again? LOL @ U

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GasLightStreet

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Hairball
Officially and contractually it appears that way, but there's much more to the story than a piece of paper.
And for the record, I'm open to all interpretations and not taking sides, just calling it like I see it.

Cefalu's work sucks. Even Ray Charles can see that. As you said, like you see it. And what Ray Charles sees is a 4th grader's work.

I know it's a matter of taste and all art is subjective, but as an artist myself I've always admired his work.
From Album Cover Hall of Fame website - see some of his great work here:

Featured Album Cover Artist Portfolio – Ernie Cefalu and Pacific Eye and Ear

And this might be of interest, though it might have already been posted in this thread somewhere

"As a young designer in the late 60’s, Ernie had the honor and privilege of working side by side with many great, emerging artists. Ernie’s drive and passion for excellence led him to a new chapter in 1970 when he joined forces with Craig Braun, Inc. in New York. Knowing the importance of first impressions, he wanted to make a mark on his first assignments. The results have become rock icons – the tongue logo for The Rolling Stones and the rule-breaking Sticky Fingers album. Three months later, Ernie opened a satellite office for the agency in California where he would be the head Art Director. The hits kept coming for Ernie.. Alice Cooper’s School’s Out, Cheech & Chong’s Big Bambu, and Captain Beyond, among others".

I didn't know he designed the cover for Big Bambu- my older bro used to have that album back in '72/73. We'd listen and laugh for hours on end.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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roller99

By the way, there's this (from 1970). Notice a resemblance?

Resemblances like these before:


1967 - Tom Wesselmann, Expo Mouth #10 -- [iorr.org]



1969 - Alan Aldridge's 'Day Tripper' illustration (here compared with the 1st North American Edition of 'Sticky Fingers' 1971).

Is it true that Mick owns the rights to the tongue logo? A german concert promoter mentioned that in a TV special.

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django

Is it true that Mick owns the rights to the tongue logo?

Yes, the Rolling Stones own the Copyright of the Tongue&Lips logo.

John Pasche sold in 1984 his Copyright to the Band - [www.NYTimes.com] .

The Tongue&Lips logo is a registered Trademark of Musidor B.V. (Amsterdam, The Netherlands) -- see also here: [iorr.org] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-08 19:50 by Irix.

They don't own the rights to this one:Original Lips and Tongue

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roller99
They don't own the rights to this one:Original Lips and Tongue

I recognize that.



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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roller99

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Irix

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roller99

What's your point? Do YOU think someone would have done this ad if they didn't have the rights to those images?

At least your advertising picture doesn't prove that Ernie Cefalu did his first design of the Tongue&Lips logo before February 1971 or before John Pasche in 1970 ....

OMG, are you that thick? Why would a well-known company place an ad like that? Don't you get that Craig Braun's company created the first tongue. Craig owned the company, and Ernie worked for Craig. What do you know about this? Were you there when it happened, or do you know any of these people?

No, I didn't think so. Or maybe I should post a picture of something called "Dolls Alive", which was an album and a poster for a show done in 1969 that had the exact set of lips, minus the tongue, also done by Cefalu, for......wait for it.....Decca Records. It predates the whole f**king thing. That's the connection between Decca and Craig Braun. Yes, I know, SF was not on Decca. But the tongue design went that far back.

I guess you don't understand that this kind of thing, where one guy designs something, the client says "I don't like it", then takes it to another artist is common practice.

Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

I tell you, next time I see Mick I'm gonna ask him and get him on record, just to put this to bed.

Those are my facts. What exactly are your's?

Dear roller99, I'm not saying you are, but based on all your "responses", which more and more are filled with frustration kinds of info, it wouldn't surprise me if you are Cefalu.
If you could come up with facts around the dates and timing mentioned in different mails directly related to the design of the logo, you would be a genius. Not all the non-related facts about him.
When I made mention of Mr. V and Mr. D your response made you fall through the bucket holes. You apparently know who they are or else your statement is nothing more than .... empty air.
The solid facts are in the hands of a non-American and there is nothing you can change about that!

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

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Irix

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roller99

By the way, there's this (from 1970). Notice a resemblance?

Resemblances like these before:


1967 - Tom Wesselmann, Expo Mouth #10 -- [iorr.org]



1969 - Alan Aldridge's 'Day Tripper' illustration (here compared with the 1st North American Edition of 'Sticky Fingers' 1971).

Nice approach Irix!

As part of "an" investigation I collected some 400 (four hundred) images from combined lips/teeth/tongue combies dating back to the 1940s. They do not include the images of Kali dating back hundreds of years! Pasche was given a Kali image by Mick Jagger as the latter stated several times in documenten interviews (I don't know who the "Mick" is mentioned in one of roller99 's mails; maybe Mick Ronson?) and he worked from there, very effectively already in October 1970 (for sure the EX of Marchall Chess, be careful with "ex" statements, they may be fed by revange or frustration, didn't know about that).
I am not going to frustrate BV by adding all those previously mentioned hundreds of images on IORR, but they may surface one day

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blivet

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

She did reply. Her email stated "I was with Marshall duing that whole time. I know you did it". I'm paraphrasing as I can't post the actual email yet for undisclosed reasons. In time, it will be published.

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

She did reply. Her email stated "I was with Marshall duing that whole time. I know you did it". I'm paraphrasing as I can't post the actual email yet for undisclosed reasons. In time, it will be published.

Are you saying that you designed the logo?

Like a human figure or a face or an eye... anyone can use a mouth and a tongue in art or in a design; but doesn't mean the design is the same design as the Rolling Stones logo. You must consider other things... the shape, color, commercial & media applications, etc.
(The Aldridge illustration -- which pre-dates the Stones logo -- is amazingly similar.)

Lots of art and graphics with a mouth and tongue... before the Stones logo and since. Take a look at this McDonald's advert:





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-23 23:13 by schillid.

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

She did reply. Her email stated "I was with Marshall duing that whole time. I know you did it". I'm paraphrasing as I can't post the actual email yet for undisclosed reasons. In time, it will be published.

Are you saying that you designed the logo?

No. I'm not Ernie Cefalu.

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

She did reply. Her email stated "I was with Marshall duing that whole time. I know you did it". I'm paraphrasing as I can't post the actual email yet for undisclosed reasons. In time, it will be published.

Are you saying that you designed the logo?

No. I'm not Ernie Cefalu.

I'm sorry, but in that case I guess I don't understand what "I know you did it" means. Can you please clarify?

Roller99, what part of everything that's been presented in this thread about John Pasche - documented - did you not read? ALL OF IT obviously.

Stick with the facts, not fanboyisms about Ernie Cefalu shitty artwork that, for whatever reasons, the Stones decided to use for merchandise for a tour and not ANY albums. You are spewing what is now known as fake news.

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Hairball

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GasLightStreet

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Hairball
Officially and contractually it appears that way, but there's much more to the story than a piece of paper.
And for the record, I'm open to all interpretations and not taking sides, just calling it like I see it.

Cefalu's work sucks. Even Ray Charles can see that. As you said, like you see it. And what Ray Charles sees is a 4th grader's work.

I know it's a matter of taste and all art is subjective, but as an artist myself I've always admired his work.
From Album Cover Hall of Fame website - see some of his great work here:

Featured Album Cover Artist Portfolio – Ernie Cefalu and Pacific Eye and Ear

And this might be of interest, though it might have already been posted in this thread somewhere

"As a young designer in the late 60’s, Ernie had the honor and privilege of working side by side with many great, emerging artists. Ernie’s drive and passion for excellence led him to a new chapter in 1970 when he joined forces with Craig Braun, Inc. in New York. Knowing the importance of first impressions, he wanted to make a mark on his first assignments. The results have become rock icons – the tongue logo for The Rolling Stones and the rule-breaking Sticky Fingers album. Three months later, Ernie opened a satellite office for the agency in California where he would be the head Art Director. The hits kept coming for Ernie.. Alice Cooper’s School’s Out, Cheech & Chong’s Big Bambu, and Captain Beyond, among others".

I didn't know he designed the cover for Big Bambu- my older bro used to have that album back in '72/73. We'd listen and laugh for hours on end.

Fake news. John Pasche.

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

She did reply. Her email stated "I was with Marshall duing that whole time. I know you did it". I'm paraphrasing as I can't post the actual email yet for undisclosed reasons. In time, it will be published.

Are you saying that you designed the logo?

No. I'm not Ernie Cefalu.

I'm sorry, but in that case I guess I don't understand what "I know you did it" means. Can you please clarify?

Happy to. I'm quoting D. Chess, Marshall's wife. Her email to E. Cefalu is regarding the origi The letter will be published in the future. Gaslightstreet, don't bother to reply, you're just trolling for a reaction, which you won't get.

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Would it mean more to you if I found the email that was sent I think three weeks ago, from Mrs. Ex Marshall Chess, stating that these facts are true? Would that satisfy?

Personally I think it would be very helpful if you could add Mrs. Chess' recollections to this thread..

She did reply. Her email stated "I was with Marshall duing that whole time. I know you did it". I'm paraphrasing as I can't post the actual email yet for undisclosed reasons. In time, it will be published.

Are you saying that you designed the logo?

No. I'm not Ernie Cefalu.

I'm sorry, but in that case I guess I don't understand what "I know you did it" means. Can you please clarify?

Happy to. I'm quoting D. Chess, Marshall's wife. Her email to E. Cefalu is regarding the origi The letter will be published in the future. Gaslightstreet, don't bother to reply, you're just trolling for a reaction, which you won't get.

Not trolling, just truthing. You stick with whatever it is, I'll stick with documentation.

From page 7:

As posted on page whatever, this certainly was information to me yet still proves that Cefalu had zero to do with the logo. At this point, Braun's in-house illustrators are still nameless - so someone other than Braun obviously had the idea to change it:


Back in London, John Pasche, a student at the Royal College of Art, worked on a logo for the band and its new label. Mr. Jagger had been inspired by the tongue of the Hindu goddess Kali, Mr. Pasche recalled, “but I didn’t want to do anything Indian, because I thought it would be very dated quickly, as everyone was going through that phase at the time.” Still, Kali’s mouth and lips “triggered something,” he said. (It didn’t hurt that Mr. Jagger had a recognizable mouth himself.)

In New York, Mr. Braun had a deadline and needed the logo. As the tongue design was still unfinished, he settled for a rough one-inch version, faxed over from London by Marshall Chess, the founding president of Rolling Stones Records. “I didn’t tell him what I was going to do with it,” Mr. Braun said.

His in-house illustrators finished the mouth — narrowing the tongue, adding more white accents and a black void for the throat — before blowing it up to cover the entire inside sleeve of the American release (Mr. Pasche’s version was used internationally).

“I thought it was going to get me into trouble,” Mr. Braun said. Instead, his touches on the logo, which still shifts slightly in size and color for different events, often persist to this day, including on the official ads for the “ZIP Code” tour and countless pieces of Stones memorabilia.

Mr. Pasche barely noticed. “It was a relaxed affair,” he said. “I just think things were happening fast and needed to be done, so it was redrawn.”

Mr. Chess, meanwhile, only found out about Mr. Braun’s revisions 45 years later. “He was so nervous about it!” said Mr. Chess, 73.

Both Mr. Braun and Mr. Pasche are pleased with the results of their overlapping contributions to rock mythology. Initially paid just 50 pounds ($76 at current rates) for the design, Mr. Pasche sold his copyright to the band for £26,000 (about $40,000 at the time) in 1984. In 2008, the Victoria and Albert Museum in London bought his original artwork for £50,000 ($92,500).[/quote]

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roller99
Happy to. I'm quoting D. Chess, Marshall's wife. Her email to E. Cefalu is regarding the origi The letter will be published in the future.

Thank you. I didn't realize she was writing to Ernie Cefalu.

"Back in London, John Pasche, a student at the Royal College of Art, worked on a logo for the band and its new label. Mr. Jagger had been inspired by the tongue of the Hindu goddess Kali, Mr. Pasche recalled, “but I didn’t want to do anything Indian, because I thought it would be very dated quickly, as everyone was going through that phase at the time.” Still, Kali’s mouth and lips “triggered something,” he said. (It didn’t hurt that Mr. Jagger had a recognizable mouth himself.)

In New York, Mr. Braun had a deadline and needed the logo. As the tongue design was still unfinished, he settled for a rough one-inch version, faxed over from London by Marshall Chess, the founding president of Rolling Stones Records. “I didn’t tell him what I was going to do with it,” Mr. Braun said".

____________________________________________________________


It's possible that Pasche copied Cefalau's version (who might have copied the Beatles song book version), and then Braun and his in house illustrators completed the design as we know it.

I'm not completely sold on the story that Pasche's tongue was inspired by the tongue of the Hindu goddess Kali.
Sounds like a good story (to cover up the true origin), but also sounds bogus imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

It's possible that Pasche copied Cefalau's version (who might have copied the Beatles song book version), and then Braun and his in house illustrators completed the design as we know it.

John Pasche was in London while Craig Braun and Ernie Cefalu were in New York. The still unfinished tongue design (a rough one-inch version) was faxed over from London to New York and was then redrawn. -- [www.NYTimes.com]

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Irix

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Hairball

It's possible that Pasche copied Cefalau's version (who might have copied the Beatles song book version), and then Braun and his in house illustrators completed the design as we know it.

John Pasche was in London while Craig Braun and Ernie Cefalu were in New York. The still unfinished tongue design (a rough one-inch version) was faxed over from London to New York and was then redrawn. -- [www.NYTimes.com]

Thanks for clearing that up Irix as I was trying to make sense of the who, what, why, where, and when.



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
"Back in London, John Pasche, a student at the Royal College of Art, worked on a logo for the band and its new label. Mr. Jagger had been inspired by the tongue of the Hindu goddess Kali, Mr. Pasche recalled, “but I didn’t want to do anything Indian, because I thought it would be very dated quickly, as everyone was going through that phase at the time.” Still, Kali’s mouth and lips “triggered something,” he said. (It didn’t hurt that Mr. Jagger had a recognizable mouth himself.)

In New York, Mr. Braun had a deadline and needed the logo. As the tongue design was still unfinished, he settled for a rough one-inch version, faxed over from London by Marshall Chess, the founding president of Rolling Stones Records. “I didn’t tell him what I was going to do with it,” Mr. Braun said".

____________________________________________________________


It's possible that Pasche copied Cefalau's version (who might have copied the Beatles song book version), and then Braun and his in house illustrators completed the design as we know it.

I'm not completely sold on the story that Pasche's tongue was inspired by the tongue of the Hindu goddess Kali.
Sounds like a good story (to cover up the true origin), but also sounds bogus imo.

Hi Hairball,
you don't need to go for stories ... I can not imagine that documented interviews with Mick Jagger (THE Mick Jagger!, not just any "Mick") are considered by you as "stories". It's amazing that people like "Roller" (Ernie's alter ego???) still want the world to believe nonsence. Screen the Internet and look for names like Syd Maurer and Ruby Mazur in relation to "who designed the logo", add the Cefalu storie to it and you have "three "kids" in a row".

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Irix

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Hairball

It's possible that Pasche copied Cefalau's version (who might have copied the Beatles song book version), and then Braun and his in house illustrators completed the design as we know it.

John Pasche was in London while Craig Braun and Ernie Cefalu were in New York. The still unfinished tongue design (a rough one-inch version) was faxed over from London to New York and was then redrawn. -- [www.NYTimes.com]

Great source Irix. Huge applause!!! Yay. Except the interview is an interview of Craig Braun, the very person who tried to steal credit for "School's Out - Alice Cooper" from Cefalu. Doubt that? I can post the actual letter from Shep Gordon stating that Craig tried to take credit for Ernie's work, same as he did with "Licks". So if you are going to quote the NY Times article, you are in fact supporting what I say. The Times article is full of inaccuracies.

And, I'm not Ernie Cefalu, nor his alter ego. He's a friend of mine. But hey, you believe what you want to believe. You saw it on the internet, so it must be true, right?

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roller99

Except the interview is an interview of Craig Braun, the very person who tried to steal credit for "School's Out - Alice Cooper" from Cefalu. Doubt that? I can post the actual letter from Shep Gordon stating that Craig tried to take credit for Ernie's work, same as he did with "Licks".

The letter was already posted by yourself here: [iorr.org] .

Personal differences between Craig Braun and Ernie Cefalu are another matter and both should clarify it between themselves. If Ernie Cefalu was under contract at Craig Braun's Sound Packaging Corporation then normally all work done as an employee (in this case Ernie Cefalu) belongs the employer (in this case Craig Braun) ....

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Irix

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roller99

Except the interview is an interview of Craig Braun, the very person who tried to steal credit for "School's Out - Alice Cooper" from Cefalu. Doubt that? I can post the actual letter from Shep Gordon stating that Craig tried to take credit for Ernie's work, same as he did with "Licks".

The letter was already posted by yourself here: [iorr.org] .

Personal differences between Craig Braun and Ernie Cefalu are another matter and both should clarify it between themselves. If Ernie Cefalu was under contract at Craig Braun's Sound Packaging Corporation then normally all work done as an employee (in this case Ernie Cefalu) belongs the employer (in this case Craig Braun) ....

Well, we agree on something then Irix. They don't want to clarify things, it's good for the controversy.

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roller99

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Irix

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Hairball

It's possible that Pasche copied Cefalau's version (who might have copied the Beatles song book version), and then Braun and his in house illustrators completed the design as we know it.

John Pasche was in London while Craig Braun and Ernie Cefalu were in New York. The still unfinished tongue design (a rough one-inch version) was faxed over from London to New York and was then redrawn. -- [www.NYTimes.com]

Great source Irix. Huge applause!!! Yay. Except the interview is an interview of Craig Braun, the very person who tried to steal credit for "School's Out - Alice Cooper" from Cefalu. Doubt that? I can post the actual letter from Shep Gordon stating that Craig tried to take credit for Ernie's work, same as he did with "Licks". So if you are going to quote the NY Times article, you are in fact supporting what I say. The Times article is full of inaccuracies.

And, I'm not Ernie Cefalu, nor his alter ego. He's a friend of mine. But hey, you believe what you want to believe. You saw it on the internet, so it must be true, right?

There is nothing wrong in defending a friend, but, as they say : "a proven lie remains a lie", friend's support or not. Go find the video recorded interview of Mick Jagger, watch it and ask yourself "Is HE a lier?" You mentioned the name "Mick" (and nothing else added) in one of you earlier mails. If this "Mick" is the one you suggest he is, and if he would support your story, than he would have to call himself a lier. Where was Ernie in early 1970, when the Stones management invited John Pasche for a meeting with Mick Jagger? Again, there is nothing wrong in defending a friend, but losing oneself in subjectivity and loss of sence of reality ... too sad. Having said that however, everyone is free to dream his/her dream. Be happy with it, but don't think Stones fans are stupid because they are on the Internet. They dig the best Rock 'n' Roll band around, started by Brian Jones and not by somebody named "Ernie".