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blivet
It's Craig Braun's redrawing of Pasche's design that looks so much like the girl's mouth in Alan Aldridge's illustration. Pasche's design is similar, and he may have been influenced by Aldridge's drawing, but Braun's version looks like he deliberately decided to make a copy of Aldridge's work in Pasche's style.

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roller99
Craig was challenged on his claims and went completely silent.

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blivet

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GasLightStreet
Ernie Cefalu's logo is ugly. He talks too much. He probably stole the idea and said it was originally his.

One thing he said struck a chord with me. He mentioned that the company he did the design for had the rights to use it for about 18 months (something like that -- I'm to lazy to review the video), and they produced a lot of t-shirts, patches and stickers. I remember those products from when I was a kid, with the "ugly" variant of the Stones' logo with each tooth outlined and no reflections on the upper lip. I always sort of assumed it was some kind of knock-off that was just different enough to avoid any legal issues, but if Cefalu is telling the truth, it was actually the original version of the logo before Pasche improved it.

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GasLightStreet
How there can be any controversy about who did what first is absurd. It's only on iorr.org that it exists. It's been well documented that John Pasche came up with the logo. Cefalu did a variation on it later.

There's nothing to argue.

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Naturalust

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blivet

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GasLightStreet
Ernie Cefalu's logo is ugly. He talks too much. He probably stole the idea and said it was originally his.

One thing he said struck a chord with me. He mentioned that the company he did the design for had the rights to use it for about 18 months (something like that -- I'm to lazy to review the video), and they produced a lot of t-shirts, patches and stickers. I remember those products from when I was a kid, with the "ugly" variant of the Stones' logo with each tooth outlined and no reflections on the upper lip. I always sort of assumed it was some kind of knock-off that was just different enough to avoid any legal issues, but if Cefalu is telling the truth, it was actually the original version of the logo before Pasche improved it.

We've really got no reason to doubt Cefalu, his stories are pretty detailed and as roller points out, he as had tons of other success with rock and roll artwork. Besides his stories name, people, companies, times and places which I doubt someone would do if they were lying.

But I don't know if Ceflau ever says his version was done before Pasche's just when and how he came up with it. It's clear Cefalu never saw Pasche's version beforehand to me and bit less clear if Pasche ever saw Cefau's version, imo.

Marshall Chess will probably take the secret to his grave. There was probably some business interests/benefits involved with getting Pasche's copyrighted and owned and declaring it the first.

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GasLightStreet
How there can be any controversy about who did what first is absurd. It's only on iorr.org that it exists. It's been well documented that John Pasche came up with the logo. Cefalu did a variation on it later.

There's nothing to argue.

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Irix
Direct comparison:



Left: Alan Aldridge Illustration 1969 - Right: Tongue&Lips logo, Sticky Fingers 1st US-Edition 1971

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roller99

That's why there are pictures of the actual members of the Stones wearing shirts with Ernie's design BEFORE the second design had been released/before Sticky Fingers had made it to pressing. [...]

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Irix

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roller99

That's why there are pictures of the actual members of the Stones wearing shirts with Ernie's design BEFORE the second design had been released/before Sticky Fingers had made it to pressing. [...]

This may be - but Ernie Cefalu stated clearly that he has done his version in 1971, while the Victoria and Albert Museum (London, UK) stated that the version by John Pasche was done in 1970 ....

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roller99

That's bad punctuation, he didn't create it in 1971, he tried to retrieve it in 1971.

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roller99
Marshall may take the secret to his grave, but he really doesn't care, and the fact is he was high most of the time. His wife however won't take the secret to her grave, you should see her posts on FB.

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Naturalust
Thanks for your kind words roller. It's cool that you have researched this issue a bit deeper. At one time I read everything I could find on the issue and came up with a similar conclusion about what likely happened with the two designs.

I've also pointed out that since Cefalu was working for an agency and directed by Marshall Chess and Pasche seemed to be working directly with Jagger, it's likely Pasche had an advantage in the whole chain of command concerning band decisions.

Not sure why GSL is so determined to discredit Cefalu here. Both artist deserve credit for their work. I think it's likely Pasche holds on to the issue more than Cefalu since he seems like the less accomplished of the two artists, certainly in terms of album and rock and roll art. No doubt at this point he will hold on to his assertion that he was first and we will likely never find the truth about the copyright date and other business considerations which certainly effected the story and outcome.

I do like Pasche's tongue art a bit better but Cefalu has done some other stuff which is pretty damn amazing. I notice Ernie posted a sweet comment on your blog site, that was nice! Obviously you made a good impression on him and it was indeed a nice article. Good work.

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blivet

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roller99
Marshall may take the secret to his grave, but he really doesn't care, and the fact is he was high most of the time. His wife however won't take the secret to her grave, you should see her posts on FB.

Could you provide a link to these posts? You are referring to things as if they are well known, but this is all brand new to me.

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Marshall may take the secret to his grave, but he really doesn't care, and the fact is he was high most of the time. His wife however won't take the secret to her grave, you should see her posts on FB.

Could you provide a link to these posts? You are referring to things as if they are well known, but this is all brand new to me.

Here are a few links:

http://www.undercover.fm/news/16685-who-designed-the-rolling-stones-lips-logo

http://rockpopgallery.typepad.com/rockpop_gallery_news/2009/07/uncovered-interview-part-2-rolling-stones-lips-logo-by-ernie-cefalu.html

And my story on the role of the creative director in the album cover art world:

[thelosangelesbeat.com]

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blivet

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roller99

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blivet

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roller99
Marshall may take the secret to his grave, but he really doesn't care, and the fact is he was high most of the time. His wife however won't take the secret to her grave, you should see her posts on FB.

Could you provide a link to these posts? You are referring to things as if they are well known, but this is all brand new to me.

Here are a few links:

http://www.undercover.fm/news/16685-who-designed-the-rolling-stones-lips-logo

http://rockpopgallery.typepad.com/rockpop_gallery_news/2009/07/uncovered-interview-part-2-rolling-stones-lips-logo-by-ernie-cefalu.html

And my story on the role of the creative director in the album cover art world:

[thelosangelesbeat.com]

Thanks so much. Diane Chess is certainly being very mysterious about it for some reason, but Ernie Cefalu's description of how the design came about at Craig Braun's offices, and who did what when, seems pretty straightforward. I guess Jagger liked what he saw but wanted a more polished version, which got sent back to Braun, who had it redrawn again.

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roller99

Basically Ernie did the design, and was sitting in a room with Marshall Chess. Chess took the design upstairs and gave it to Pasche and told him to give it "more animation". [...]