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Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: July 9, 2013 02:14

This is quite pathetic. Keith had an off night for one reason or another. Maybe he was dosed, who knows.

His body of work since November has been consistently very good. I hope he quiets everyone on the 13th.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: July 9, 2013 02:21

Quote
guitarbastard
Quote
71Tele
He's better than in 2007, mainly because he is concentrating more and posing less (also, he has less to worry about, because Wood is delivering the goods this time). But that SMU intro was horrific. And he should simply stop the SFTD solos. It's far too much time to indulge in his aimless soloing. A real embarrassment.

yeah i never understood why he goes for those trademark solos just as in gimme shelter ans smypathy. leave them to ronnie.

They just don't have a decent lead guitarist (since 1975). I never understood why they replaced Taylor with Wood.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: July 9, 2013 02:21

Quote
BowieStone
Can it be a great gig if Keith is terrible?
I though it was a good gig with a mediocre Keith.
Jagger & Wood were terrific.

Ronnie was ok but he's just a side player, obviously Mick is the one who makes everyone feel like it's still 1981, 1972, etc...priceless...and I first saw them live in 1990 ;-) They seemed older at the time oddly enough, that tour was pretty "serious", things were more relaxed in subsequent years.

I guess if you did A to B comparisons with 1997 of Keith, yeah, you'd come out a bit depressed, but WTF would want to do that? It was a terrific show on Saturday and other than that "4th dimension" SMU intro there was nothing "embarrassing" about how Keith played and interacted with the crowd. It's a detail but those of us next to the catwalk were absolutely amazed to see him running back at one point, not sure there are too many 70 year olds who would do that!

Oh I'll give you a slightly weird moment when early in the show he spotted the huge mofo of a camera on rails that kept rolling on his side of the stage (blocking our view more than it should have) and very professionally "posed" as he'd certainly been asked to do for the purposes of the upcoming DVD. That actually felt a bit sad, but you gotta do what you gotta do ;-)

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: jazzbass ()
Date: July 9, 2013 02:30

I think Keith's miscues are far more glaring to those of us who spent any meaningful amount of time playing guitar. All the time, when I'm out seeing live acts, I'm critiquing their performance and pointing out the mistakes to my wife. She get's irritated and says, "it sounds great to me!" Some times I even hate that I notice so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-09 02:31 by jazzbass.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Date: July 9, 2013 02:34

Keith fvcked up the JJF-intro as well. The sound was so low, and the audience was singing so loud - a weird combo.

Beast Of Burden was the definite highlight for me.

Btw, Keith has played that chord pattern on Burden since 1994.

Mick fvcked up lots of cues as well: Bitch (Clark also struggled, having problems hearing his voice), Rambler, IORR, but who cares. It was a special show.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: July 9, 2013 02:49

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
guitarbastard
Quote
71Tele
He's better than in 2007, mainly because he is concentrating more and posing less (also, he has less to worry about, because Wood is delivering the goods this time). But that SMU intro was horrific. And he should simply stop the SFTD solos. It's far too much time to indulge in his aimless soloing. A real embarrassment.

yeah i never understood why he goes for those trademark solos just as in gimme shelter ans smypathy. leave them to ronnie.

They just don't have a decent lead guitarist (since 1975). I never understood why they replaced Taylor with Wood.
They wanted Keith to step forward and feared he had grown lazy relying on Taylor. Keith was the "lead" player with Brian.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: U2Stonesfan ()
Date: July 9, 2013 03:00

Quote
Thrylan
Quote
nobodyimportant
Quote
Jaggeresque
Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
teleblaster
Quote
andrewt
The scarf had been busy writing songs for the new album, the first to include Jagger/Scarf collaborations along with one Jagger/Scarf/Wood b-side.


It opens with "Scarf Me Up".

followed by "scarf of the earth"

Then "You Got Me Knitting" and "All Darn The Line"

"Torn And Frayed" at the end, obviously


Scarffu##er
You could say, the scarf became the "Scarf of Burden"

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 9, 2013 03:38

Keith doesn't know that much about scales. I've read he has a limited knowledge of chords, as well. He used to have a feel/ear for it, when he was younger. He just doesn't seem as interested and hasn't in years. There are people who idolize him just for being who he is and he knows it. His ego is every bit as big as Mick Jagger's or he wouldn't do those solos while walking around the catwalk to get audience applause. It's the bargain people make for continuing to support the band and paying high ticket prices and insisting they're still the greatest. There are times when Keith can still play okay, and some times he can't. He has arthritis and it's harder for him, anyways. If he gets as much love for playing the way he does now, maybe more love than when he played better when he was younger, he has no incentive to either try harder or give up his playing time to Ron.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: July 9, 2013 04:09

Quote
marianna
If he gets as much love for playing the way he does now, maybe more love than when he played better when he was younger, he has no incentive to either try harder or give up his playing time to Ron.

So, we are all Keith enablers. There has been so much pschyobabble on this thread and others, coupled with scarf-gate, and a certain amount of ageism, as in he should just hang it up cause he's old, arthritic, borderline senile...you name it. It's making my head spin. Keith plays what he wants to play because it's his prerogative to do so and because he obviously enjoys it. We should just enjoy it too.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: July 9, 2013 04:17

Quote
Carnaby
If that's the way Keith plays it, that's the way the song goes.
thumbs up

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: TonyMo ()
Date: July 9, 2013 04:38

Quote
marianna
Keith doesn't know that much about scales. I've read he has a limited knowledge of chords, as well. He used to have a feel/ear for it, when he was younger.

A level-headed, no bullshit kind of fellow once told me the following story. I've never been able to confirm it but it's worth passing along. The aforementioned guy was a drummer, and in some drumming magazine or another he read a feature about Yogi Horton, a relatively well known session drummer. The 'story' goes: Horton was awoken by a phone call from his agent suggesting that he (Horton) should go to some New York studio. Horton says something along the line of, 'but it's 3 in the morning!' Not having the luxury of turning down a session, Horton gets to the deserted (except for a security gaurd) studio and upon entering hears a solo guitar player. Nothing else. By the time he reaches whatever studio room he's headed, he's ascertaines based on what he's hearing that it's going to be a jazz session. He was most surprised when the gutarist turned out to be Keith Richards.

Now I've no reason to think the man who told me this was a teller of tales but still, I've always been a bit dubious about that story. Nevertheless I have on occassion heard Keith play some things live that are completely over the moon from what you'd expect from him and which invariably causes me to think maybe that story really did happen.

Go to 4:01 of this and put on some cans. He plays a beautifully executed (and swift) minor line and you wouldn't think it was Keith Richards, but it is. This is but one example







Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-09 04:50 by TonyMo.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: July 9, 2013 04:48

Well said.....don't let the humble old pirate fool you, 50 years in the business and you know your stuff. Some nice runs in "don't let them drop that bomb on me" as well.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: TonyMo ()
Date: July 9, 2013 04:52

I'm embarrassedtongue sticking out smiley..'edited 5 times'
I should proof before I post.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 9, 2013 05:05

Quote
TonyMo
Quote
marianna
Keith doesn't know that much about scales. I've read he has a limited knowledge of chords, as well. He used to have a feel/ear for it, when he was younger.

A level-headed, no bullshit kind of fellow once told me the following story. I've never been able to confirm it but it's worth passing along. The aforementioned guy was a drummer, and in some drumming magazine or another he read a feature about Yogi Horton, a relatively well known session drummer. The 'story' goes: Horton was awoken by a phone call from his agent suggesting that he (Horton) should go to some New York studio. Horton says something along the line of, 'but it's 3 in the morning!' Not having the luxury of turning down a session, Horton gets to the deserted (except for a security gaurd) studio and upon entering hears a solo guitar player. Nothing else. By the time he reaches whatever studio room he's headed, he's ascertaines based on what he's hearing that it's going to be a jazz session. He was most surprised when the gutarist turned out to be Keith Richards.

Now I've no reason to think the man who told me this was a teller of tales but still, I've always been a bit dubious about that story. Nevertheless I have on occassion heard Keith play some things live that are completely over the moon from what you'd expect from him and which invariably causes me to think maybe that story really did happen.

Go to 4:01 of this and put on some cans. He plays a beautifully executed (and swift) minor line and you wouldn't think it was Keith Richards, but it is. This is but one example

Just because Keith can find certain notes and pattern, or could at one time, doesn't mean he has a formal knowledge of what they are or how he manages to find them. He's an ear player. He can't read music and he may have learned little or no theory, which is typical of some ear players. Some people just have that gift. He had it more when he was younger. I know people don't want to acknowledge he's not as good as he used to be. That's not the same as saying he's entirely terrible now. That's just saying he was better before.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: sonomastone ()
Date: July 9, 2013 06:01

Quote
jazzbass
I think Keith's miscues are far more glaring to those of us who spent any meaningful amount of time playing guitar. All the time, when I'm out seeing live acts, I'm critiquing their performance and pointing out the mistakes to my wife. She get's irritated and says, "it sounds great to me!" Some times I even hate that I notice so much.

i totally agree. i also think that there is an element of people wanting to show how well they know the music by pointing out all the different mistakes. it must be incredibly ironic to the stones that when they were young and at the top of their game, nobody listened (or could hear), and now when they are 70 every note is dissected.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: TeddyB1018 ()
Date: July 9, 2013 06:18

Are Marianna and Proud Mary different logins for the same poster? Just asking.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: stringpull ()
Date: July 9, 2013 06:18

The Stones got the biggest balls of anyone in showbuiness. Always play in the danger zone, never pretty, no one knows what is gonna happen next. Always talked about,bastards of the swagger. Even at 50 years old.The glorious rock and roll trainwreck
known as the Rolling Stones. Hail, hail Rolling Stones

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: July 9, 2013 06:20

Quote
stringpull
The Stones got the biggest balls of anyone in showbuiness. Always play in the danger zone, never pretty, no one knows what is gonna happen next. Always talked about,bastards of the swagger. Even at 50 years old.The glorious rock and roll trainwreck
known as the Rolling Stones. Hail, hail Rolling Stones


You pull in' my string?

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 9, 2013 06:52

As far as that video of "Rock and Hard Place" goes, how can you tell it's Keith playing at the point of the song where that little Spanish-sounding run is? The camera isn't on him. It could be Ron, or it could also be a studio overdub of either guy, since it's a pro-shot video. I'm sure Keith can play better sitting down in a studio than on stage. It's harder to play standing up and moving, and it's easier to make mistakes. Back in the day, guitarists were restricted by being tethered to a cord, and the Stones didn't have a stage act where they were running around all over the place.

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: July 9, 2013 07:32

Quote
marianna
Keith doesn't know that much about scales. I've read he has a limited knowledge of chords, as well. He used to have a feel/ear for it, when he was younger. He just doesn't seem as interested and hasn't in years. There are people who idolize him just for being who he is and he knows it. His ego is every bit as big as Mick Jagger's or he wouldn't do those solos while walking around the catwalk to get audience applause. It's the bargain people make for continuing to support the band and paying high ticket prices and insisting they're still the greatest. There are times when Keith can still play okay, and some times he can't. He has arthritis and it's harder for him, anyways. If he gets as much love for playing the way he does now, maybe more love than when he played better when he was younger, he has no incentive to either try harder or give up his playing time to Ron.

Give me a break. He knows plenty. Just listen to what he played on SFTD on Ya Yas, then listen to one of his recent "solos". This is just pure degradation of ability. Drugs, brain damage, lack of practice? I don't know. Nothing that we're talking about here has anything to do with lack of knowledge of chords or scales. He never was a great technical player, that's not where his magic was. But he used to have impeccable time. What happened? No need for that to recede with age.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: July 9, 2013 07:36

Quote
marianna
As far as that video of "Rock and Hard Place" goes, how can you tell it's Keith playing at the point of the song where that little Spanish-sounding run is? The camera isn't on him. It could be Ron, or it could also be a studio overdub of either guy, since it's a pro-shot video. I'm sure Keith can play better sitting down in a studio than on stage. It's harder to play standing up and moving, and it's easier to make mistakes. Back in the day, guitarists were restricted by being tethered to a cord, and the Stones didn't have a stage act where they were running around all over the place.

Then it begs the question: Why run all over the place if it affects your playing that much? No one is forcing him to.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: Gibson668 ()
Date: July 9, 2013 08:00

Once again, it would seem, a show, the band, a player, are pulled apart, chewed over and spat out by a group of 'fans' that have, in the main, watched/heard a show from the comfort of their home via crappy hand held footage on Youtube.
When will you lot finally realise that the whole point of seeing a band is to feel the whole thing..live albums and dvds are just a snapshot for those of us that can't make it..I don't give a shit if Keith fluffs an intro..that's the whole point..it's live..you'd all complain when the cd/dvd comes out with an overdub wouldn't you?
Get over yourselves..and get out and watch a bloody band play live..or have a go yourselves!..Sorry, rant over!!

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: July 9, 2013 08:11

Quote
Gibson668
Once again, it would seem, a show, the band, a player, are pulled apart, chewed over and spat out by a group of 'fans' that have, in the main, watched/heard a show from the comfort of their home via crappy hand held footage on Youtube.
When will you lot finally realise that the whole point of seeing a band is to feel the whole thing..live albums and dvds are just a snapshot for those of us that can't make it..I don't give a shit if Keith fluffs an intro..that's the whole point..it's live..you'd all complain when the cd/dvd comes out with an overdub wouldn't you?
Get over yourselves..and get out and watch a bloody band play live..or have a go yourselves!..Sorry, rant over!!

True enough. In my case, I HAVE seen the band live recently (twice) and really enjoyed myself. Nevertheless, criticisms of the musicianship are well-deserved in certain cases, and there is nothing wromng with pointing them out.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: Gibson668 ()
Date: July 9, 2013 08:32

Of course, the small percentage of a Stones concert audience that inhabits this site, will pick up on errors of musicianship, fluffed lines etc...but, and this is the big but, the vast majority of punters at a gig won't even notice, they don't even care..that moment. for them is gone...it's us lot that sit and chew over it for bloody days..They're at work, down the pub..telling their mates what a "bloody fantastic time" they had seeing the Stones at the weekend..Rejoice in the fact they're still doing it..If people want note perfect..listen to the albums..if you want raw, visceral, life, feel it, goose bump moments..warts n all..go see them live.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: HighwireC ()
Date: July 9, 2013 08:56

Some butterflies to remember Brian:





Brian, We Miss You!

Re: great gig - terrible keith
Posted by: sonomastone ()
Date: July 9, 2013 09:02

Quote
marianna
Keith doesn't know that much about scales. I've read he has a limited knowledge of chords, as well. He used to have a feel/ear for it, when he was younger. He just doesn't seem as interested and hasn't in years. There are people who idolize him just for being who he is and he knows it. His ego is every bit as big as Mick Jagger's or he wouldn't do those solos while walking around the catwalk to get audience applause. It's the bargain people make for continuing to support the band and paying high ticket prices and insisting they're still the greatest. There are times when Keith can still play okay, and some times he can't. He has arthritis and it's harder for him, anyways. If he gets as much love for playing the way he does now, maybe more love than when he played better when he was younger, he has no incentive to either try harder or give up his playing time to Ron.

Are you ry cooder?

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: belld ()
Date: July 9, 2013 09:31

Atmosphere, build up, anticipation. Just a thought.
The Vaccines got the audience attention and got some reaction. The gap before the Stones came on was quiet and muted. Sound system very low and I cannot remember any tracks never mind good sounds. A missed opportunity to crowd please and build up the anticipation and atmosphere. I have many memories of the opposite at previous outdoor gigs with feel good all around. Did I miss something?

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 9, 2013 09:36

Keith Richards is asking people $600 a ticket to watch him play and he messes up intros all the time, and has for years on end. Professionals shouldn't do things like that so often, and you can hear that he messed up that intro to "Start Me Up" whether you ever picked up a guitar yourself or not. Just listen to the record or other live performances where he didn't mess it up like that. He's not consistent, and intros are glaring. Not all bands' songs have such distinct intros, but songs such as "Start Me Up" and "Brown Sugar" do. Keith created those intros, and it's not like he's improvising some alternate version that sounds good.

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: July 9, 2013 10:51

sjs12 wrote, replying to Kees: "Why can't you accept that some people can come to terms with the Stones as they are now and still enjoy going to see them ? If you don't like it then fine don't go. But you're pretty blind yourself if you think that all 65000 people there who had a great time are blind or deaf. And even if they are, they had a good time whilst your sat there being miserable so I know which camp I prefer to be in, blind or not.

Keith made a 1 second mistake on the opening chords that most of the audience didn't even hear and people say he should call it quits? If we all applied the same logic to ourselves very few people would be left doing anything".

Well said. And by this logic, Keith sould have quit since 1981...


Rebelrebel wrote: "In general I thought Keith had a good night though - a botched intro isn't the end of the world".

Agree, he was good overall. But a botched intro, even isn't the end of the word, for some posters here is an occasion...

Re: Hyde Park show #1 July 6 Rolling Stones live updates
Posted by: rebelrebel ()
Date: July 9, 2013 11:10

Quote
HighwireC
Some butterflies to remember Brian:





Brian, We Miss You!

Wouldn't it have been nice if the red 'rose petals' at the end had been white 'butterflies'? Just a thought.

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