Hey you,
yesterday I had an annoying discussion with a friend of mine who calls the Stones "satanists" only due to Sympathy for the Devil. In the end he really changed his point of view a bit but there was still one question left that I could not answer: On which tours was the WHOLE song played? I guess usually the stanza with the Gods and the Kennedys is missing, isn't it? Help would be appreciated!
Many thanks

the inclusion or omission of that verse has nothing to do with them not being satanists.

Omitting the Kennedys reference is a way to keep the song from being too dated, because all the Kennedys are dead now, and so are all the people who killed them. Besides, you can still have sympathy for the devil without hearing about the Kennedys.

Also, does Mick still sing the line "who get killed before they reach Bombay"? It's known as Mumbai now. Come to think of it, "devil" is a bit of an outdated word as well....

they also still sing about the blitzkreig

it's a shame they don't sing the kennedys line because it contains the important "it was you and me" line

as i'm sure you pointed out to your friend the song is not about embracing evil but rather recognizing it and confronting it.

"i tell you one time, and you're to blame"

(recognize evil, don't be surprised by it, or else)

the verses and title serve to point out that humans have an immense capacity for evil, which we ignore or downplay at our own risk: "use all your well-earned politesse or i'll lay your soul to waste"

the song actually takes a pretty standard christian point of view about the devil: he is everywhere, in all of us, beware.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-03 12:20 by sonomastone.

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sonomastone
it's a shame they don't sing the kennedys line because it contains the important "it was you and me" line

The devil is the prince of lies.

So when he says "after all it was you and me" its a lie.

I never killed JFK or RFK.

I would like that on record.

Thanks.

(PS it wasn't LHO either).

i dont like the line "pilate washed his hands sealed his fate"

I have often speculated about this myself - but not based solely on this song. Then, after reading Mick's biography where it states he and Marianne (mostly Marianne) actually dabbled in the black magic, it got me wondering more. Who really knows. Nothing would shock me these days.

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TheGreek
i dont like the line "pilate washed his hands sealed his fate"

I have gone back and forth on this line...is it the more obvious interpetation, that Pilate is sealing Jesus's fate, or the lesser, in that it is possibly his own--by failing to intervene, he will always be remembered as the guy who could have saved Jesus, but didnt.

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HalfNanker
that Pilate is sealing Jesus's fate, or the lesser, in that it is possibly his own--by failing to intervene, he will always be remembered as the guy who could have saved Jesus, but didnt.

Couldn't Jesus or his Dad have just zapped everyone?

Pilate had no choice and neither did Judas... because Daddy wanted Jesus nailed.

Oooh.. that's a deep knotty one.

(That's if it really happned as told).

- But sympathy? Isn`t that to go a bit too far?

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noughties
- But sympathy? Isn`t that to go a bit too far?

The devil had no choice either.

Omnipotent God knew what the devil would do even before he created him but created him anyway.

Knottier and knottier..

(That's if the story we are told is true).

Mick has written that Sympathy was inspired by the Russian classic novel The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov. Mick couldn't say that when the song came out, who would have believed that Mick Jagger read classic Russian novels. If you read the book and listen to the song you can understand the connection.

Shouldnt really mess about with the wording of that song.......

Its a lyrical masterpiece!

What a drag it is gettin' old

Exactly, especially the lines about Jesus and Pilate are pretty much a caption of Master and Margarita and the perspective in which the story is told in the novel. I read it recently and I get how the idea to the song could have come about. If you take it as the devil talking about how he messed in world events over centuries and then spin it further to the context of the events Mick then wrote about, it makes total sense. A "stones are satanists" debate though seems very rural 1969 to me The song is a piece of art, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

Many thanks for all your points! I can agree with most of them!

But my question still remains: On which tours did they include the Kennedy and "you and me" verse? I remember having heard it on several bootlegs but I coulnd't say on which ones...

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GravityBoy

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sonomastone
it's a shame they don't sing the kennedys line because it contains the important "it was you and me" line

The devil is the prince of lies.

So when he says "after all it was you and me" its a lie.

I never killed JFK or RFK.

I would like that on record.

Thanks.

(PS it wasn't LHO either).

I note you didn't deny responsibility for the blitzkrieg you bastid.

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noughties
- But sympathy? Isn`t that to go a bit too far?

"Shared Feeling For The Devil" seemed a bit wordy.

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treaclefingers
I note you didn't deny responsibility for the blitzkrieg you bastid.

Hey!

The devil didn't try and pin that one on "you and me".

I was ironing at the time anyway.

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GravityBoy

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treaclefingers
I note you didn't deny responsibility for the blitzkrieg you bastid.

Hey!

The devil didn't try and pin that one on "you and me".

I was ironing at the time anyway.

apologies...I didn't realize you had an airtight alibi.

The "Kennedy" and the "you and me" verses were included on all tours they did until the 70s. On the steel wheels tour they replaced it with a longer guitar solo by Keith. On the 94/95 (Voodoo Lounge) and 97/98/99 (Bridges to Babylon) and 1999 (No Security) tours the parts were done and then never again.

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GravityBoy

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noughties
- But sympathy? Isn`t that to go a bit too far?

The devil had no choice either.

Omnipotent God knew what the devil would do even before he created him but created him anyway.

Knottier and knottier..

(That's if the story we are told is true).

But did God even have a choice himself? If he is perfeclty omnipotent and benevolent, as people often claim, then he would have to, on the basis of his own very nature, always do that which is perfectly omnipotent and benevolent. He would literally have no choice in the matter.

Ah religion... your claims are so fun to analyze

Wait until His Majesty sees this one....

Oh god........It is a philosophical statement. There is no god, or devil. The devil is a scapegoat. The TV show had a running gag,"The devil made me do it!" The joke is, no, you did it. We are the good and evil. It is a statement against organized religion. That being said, if you don't believe in god, then there is no devil. It is also a call to take responsibility for your own actions.

Now, does anyone still believe KISS stands for knights in Satan's service?

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Thrylan
Oh god........It is a philosophical statement. There is no god, or devil. The devil is a scapegoat. The TV show had a running gag,"The devil made me do it!" The joke is, no, you did it. We are the good and evil. It is a statement against organized religion. That being said, if you don't believe in god, then there is no devil. It is also a call to take responsibility for your own actions.

Nice post.

It does annoy me that they omit that "fought for ten decades for the gods they made" verse in concert. It's easily my favorite part of the song.

"Just as every cop is a criminal, and all the sinners saint" are my favorite lyrics from the song. As long as this verse is left in, I'm happy

They've driven this tired warhorse into the ground so deeply that I don't even hear it when they play it. It's shut out until the next song.

It's never been the same since they added the drum loop. Or rather, it's ALWAYS been the same since they added the drum loop. At least prior to the drum loop it was different from tour to tour and had variation to it.

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Thrylan
Oh god........It is a philosophical statement. There is no god, or devil. The devil is a scapegoat.

Yeah?....

Well explain this then.

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stonehearted
Omitting the Kennedys reference is a way to keep the song from being too dated, because all the Kennedys are dead now, and so are all the people who killed them. Besides, you can still have sympathy for the devil without hearing about the Kennedys.

Also, does Mick still sing the line "who get killed before they reach Bombay"? It's known as Mumbai now. Come to think of it, "devil" is a bit of an outdated word as well....

For a moment I thought you are Mathijs.

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24FPS
They've driven this tired warhorse into the ground so deeply that I don't even hear it when they play it. It's shut out until the next song.

Where were you on Saturday?????????