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gotdablouse
Correct, get yourself a pair of these "musician earplugs" : [www.amazon.com] for the grand total of $10 (or less).



I got some after being made half deaf at the Trabendo last year, they basically turn the level down without filtering out frequencies like standard earplugs would do. Wish I'd known about them years ago! It's too bad the sound seems to be very loud at the recent concerts, it was perfect at the O2, no earplugs needed.

PS - unless your name is dumbo get the blue version, the white ones are HUGE and yes I own a pair of both!

I own these also, as a drumnmer I was getting some ringing from drumming with a super loud snare. The white ones are silly big but the blue are perfect. They do a great job of reducing volume across the spectrum so you still hear everything just a bit quieter. Certainly good to have when needed.

I think Mathijs is right about concert volumes but you can get ear fatigue which will make the last 1/2 less enjoyable as sometorontochick mentioned. If I was close to the PA speakers I'd bring some. These work well.

It sucks. I love loud music, but I really am scared to death I'm going to do some damage to my hears. I'd hate to have tinnitus, just from what I've heard from people that have it, and any other ear problems are something I'm sure everyone would like to avoid, just because it is something avoidable on a specific person's part.

I can say I'm 80% I listen to music too loudly on my iPod/computer with headphones, but I'm an idiot enough that I still haven't turned down. I also go to a lot of concerts, and haven't worn earplugs since I was about 13, which was a while ago. I go to a show and rarely ever see anyone wearing earplugs, so I stupidly assume "its not like everyone here is going to go deaf, so I don't need the earplugs." Also, if I were to wear earplugs, I know it would lead to some ridicule from my friends (as I too think earplugs seem childish) and I'm afraid it'll cancel too much sound.

Also, I haven't been to a concert in maybe 6 years where I haven't said "they should turn it up a bit." I'm afraid I've already done the damage, and if the concerts already don't seem that loud to me, I feel wearing earplugs is only going to make them sound softer.

A Stones concert is anything - but loud. Sorry to say.

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Mathijs
Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

As someone has said, this is completely wrong. Every single concert you go to is damaging your hearing in some way. And you can definitely suffer noticeable hearing damage from a single concert.

Anyway, I wear the blue earplugs that were posted in this thread. I highly recommend them.

You were also at the O2 I think? Yeah the sound was perfect there but clearly they've turned up the volume a few notches too many recently if not people wouldn't be complaining about ringing ears ! The Trabendo was crazy loud too, it was ridiculous, you can hear that in the boot in fact ;-)

For $10 there's no reason not to get these "musician earplugs". I always take them along, start the concert with them and then remove them if it's not as loud as expected or during the quiet songs. They come with a chord if you're afraid of losing them but I don't use it myself as they cover the tip of the plug and must obstruct the "pipe" where the sound enters...

Here's the Etymotic webpage : [www.etymotic.com]




@Stoneswolf - you could try the blue ones for kids, I'm not sure ears canals grow that much. There are some special kids earplugs here : [www.alpinehearingprotection.com] - but they don't seem to be designed for music so they might "muffle" like foam earplugs, still better to have them around if need be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 21:18 by gotdablouse.

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Alfonz

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Mathijs
Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

As someone has said, this is completely wrong. Every single concert you go to is damaging your hearing in some way.

And you can lose hearing with a single rehearsal if you're in a band. A loud drummer or a guitarist warming up in front of his amp may be enough...

Thanx for all the replies, just ordered the Etymotic ones in "babysize".

The blue ones or did you find a smaller size? Let us know how you like them. I'll be taking mine to a Stones Roses concert next week.

heed their words...this is cumbersome

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Mathijs

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owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

I would seriously have to disagree....my brother is severly hearing impaired to this day from loud rock concert music! Without a hearing aid he is almost deaf. Your assertion is inaccurate.

I just buy a box of 40 pairs of toss away foam earplugs at the drugstore of $10. I keep a handful in my car and coat.

I work as a professional music photographer and I see people all the time in the pit not wearing protection and when I offer a pair I hear the stupidest excuses for not accepting..."I'm already deaf, what's the point to start wearing them now"

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Markdog

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gotdablouse
Correct, get yourself a pair of these "musician earplugs" : [www.amazon.com] for the grand total of $10 (or less).



I got some after being made half deaf at the Trabendo last year, they basically turn the level down without filtering out frequencies like standard earplugs would do. Wish I'd known about them years ago! It's too bad the sound seems to be very loud at the recent concerts, it was perfect at the O2, no earplugs needed.

PS - unless your name is dumbo get the blue version, the white ones are HUGE and yes I own a pair of both!

I own these also, as a drumnmer I was getting some ringing from drumming with a super loud snare. The white ones are silly big but the blue are perfect. They do a great job of reducing volume across the spectrum so you still hear everything just a bit quieter. Certainly good to have when needed.

I think Mathijs is right about concert volumes but you can get ear fatigue which will make the last 1/2 less enjoyable as sometorontochick mentioned. If I was close to the PA speakers I'd bring some. These work well.

I use these blue ones as well. Some might find it "uncool" to use earplugs but I prefer that rather than being cool and deaf. Even up in 319 last night I was glad to have them, the sound was louder and clearer than in Brooklyn were I was in almost the same place but where I had forgotten my earplugs. My ears are quite sensitive and I have some slight ringing ever since a concert I went to in 2011.

Great post. I worked on the aircraft flightline and what people say about hearing loss is true.

From Michael Caine's book Acting in Film:




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-27 10:33 by Title5Take1.

Most European countries and the US have laws prohibiting sound levels at live concerts that can damage hearing. For most West-European countries the limit is 103 dB, measured over a period of 15 minutes, for a maximum duration of 2 hours. Visiting 2 concerts for a duration of 2 hours per week at 103 dB is considered safe. The sound level is measured at the mixing desk and must be open for visitors to see.

The position of the measurement can pose a problem for visitors close to the PA system when that is build op from the floor level, as sound levels can exceed 103 dB within proximity of 15 to 20 meters from the speakers. Therefore the organizer and/or owner is obliged to inform the visitors and to provide free hearing protection. At most larger concerts the speaker cabinets are hung from the ceilings, and are at sufficient distance from the visitors.

Note: these guidelines and laws only apply to live music events, and NOT for discotheques, dancings, house music events etc. So if you visit a rave event you can still experience sound levels way higher than 110 dB, which can damage your ears quickly.

I always use earplugs, wherever I go. After 20 years of band rehearsals with loud drummers I am sensitive for loud music, I just can’t stand it anymore. I don’t know if my hearing has become sensitive, or that I am just getting old.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

sorry not true take it up with my surgeons

I didn't have my i.Phone to measure (approximately) the level at the Trabendo but I'd bet it was a lot louder than 103dB!

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ohotos

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Markdog

Quote
gotdablouse
Correct, get yourself a pair of these "musician earplugs" : [www.amazon.com] for the grand total of $10 (or less).



I got some after being made half deaf at the Trabendo last year, they basically turn the level down without filtering out frequencies like standard earplugs would do. Wish I'd known about them years ago! It's too bad the sound seems to be very loud at the recent concerts, it was perfect at the O2, no earplugs needed.

PS - unless your name is dumbo get the blue version, the white ones are HUGE and yes I own a pair of both!

I own these also, as a drumnmer I was getting some ringing from drumming with a super loud snare. The white ones are silly big but the blue are perfect. They do a great job of reducing volume across the spectrum so you still hear everything just a bit quieter. Certainly good to have when needed.

I think Mathijs is right about concert volumes but you can get ear fatigue which will make the last 1/2 less enjoyable as sometorontochick mentioned. If I was close to the PA speakers I'd bring some. These work well.

I use these blue ones as well. Some might find it "uncool" to use earplugs but I prefer that rather than being cool and deaf. Even up in 319 last night I was glad to have them, the sound was louder and clearer than in Brooklyn were I was in almost the same place but where I had forgotten my earplugs. My ears are quite sensitive and I have some slight ringing ever since a concert I went to in 2011.

Actually these blue ones are pretty much invisible (I don't use the chord that comes with them) once inserted properly and you do want to insert them as far as possible (a little bit of saliva will help!).

The other day I went to this small concert and realized I didn't have them so I whipped out my Klipsch S4 IEMs and...well it wasn't bad really, it wasn't that muffled. When it's really loud the sound gets to your brain from outside your ears ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-27 11:54 by gotdablouse.

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mgshorr

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Mathijs

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owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

This is entirely wrong.

yes, dead wrong, my 2nd post here to that effect.

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mgshorr

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Mathijs

Quote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

This is entirely wrong.

yes, dead wrong, my 2nd post here.

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owlbynite

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Mathijs

Quote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

sorry not true take it up with my surgeons

First two google hits:

‘It's not the acute exposure, but the chronic exposure, that can cause problems years later.’

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

'After leaving a gig or club it's not uncommon to have pain in your ears, ringing or temporary deafness. Usually this will stop after a while but if you go to enough loud concerts, combined with listening to an MP3 player full blast (110db) the rest of the time, your ears will be damaged.'

[www.guardian.co.uk]

Mathijs

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gotdablouse
The blue ones or did you find a smaller size? Let us know how you like them. I'll be taking mine to a Stones Roses concert next week.

The blue ones. How old is your cild? Mine is eight, we will most likely do a test run of these ear plugs at an Eric Clapton concerts next Thurdsay before she is goingto see the Stones in Hydepark. (Spending so much on tickets and then to use cheap ear plugs where she would only get a dump sound would be dissappointing, so thank you very much for hinting these ear plugs!)

Oh I haven't tried my blue ones on a child yet but will be looking forward to your feedback. If they're a bit big overall an option is to insert only the first two "flanges", that would provide a good seal already I'm sure.

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Mathijs

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owlbynite

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Mathijs

Quote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

sorry not true take it up with my surgeons

First two google hits:

‘It's not the acute exposure, but the chronic exposure, that can cause problems years later.’

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

'After leaving a gig or club it's not uncommon to have pain in your ears, ringing or temporary deafness. Usually this will stop after a while but if you go to enough loud concerts, combined with listening to an MP3 player full blast (110db) the rest of the time, your ears will be damaged.'

[www.guardian.co.uk]

Mathijs

Surgeons & audiologists told me all it takes is ONE good loud noise to finish your hearing for life.

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owlbynite

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Mathijs

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owlbynite

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,

Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.

At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.

Mathijs

sorry not true take it up with my surgeons

First two google hits:

‘It's not the acute exposure, but the chronic exposure, that can cause problems years later.’

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

'After leaving a gig or club it's not uncommon to have pain in your ears, ringing or temporary deafness. Usually this will stop after a while but if you go to enough loud concerts, combined with listening to an MP3 player full blast (110db) the rest of the time, your ears will be damaged.'

[www.guardian.co.uk]

Mathijs

Surgeons & audiologists told me all it takes is ONE good loud noise to finish your hearing for life.

Nope -only if you're eardrum raptures or when you listen to the Beatles, but fortunately eardrums can be repaired. Hearing loss occurs as a result of high volumes over extended period of time. Unfortunately, that can not be repaired.

Mathijs

The problem is that tinnitus and hearing loss in general is sneaking in year by year. Say you are exposed to a sudden gunshot at age 18, then you feel pain and the damage is done. immediately. In a snap of a second. If the gunshot is very close to your ear. Then your loss will be in the upper 10k - 15k Hz, you will not hear the grasshoppers anomore, then you will after 5-10-15 years loose anything above 8k and life is getting "ringing". You have to say "say what" every time people speak, and you will not be able to hear what people say if there are more than one person in the room talking.

The inner ear parts are so small and sophisticated they are impossible to replace. Take care of your hearing. The Rolling Stones will last forever, and you want to listen to their music all the way!

Bjornulf

Just curious. Do Ronnie, Keith and Darryl use any earplugs? I never noticed any. Keith has his amps cranked and he is right in front of them and sometimes with one leg up on Charlie's drum riser. If they don't I never heard of them mentioning they had hearing loss or ear problems like Pete Townsend.

PS - I was at the stage with Deep Purple in the 70's and I wasn't right for weeks afterward.

I've found that concert volume is a bit situational.
Small venues seem louder than larger ones; outdoor venues
seem quieter than indoors (but that is dependent on where
you are in reference to the PA). We carry earplugs to
every show; better to have them and not need them than to
need them and not have them.
I remember Mick copping to some hearing loss in left ear;
his explanation is its because Keith has been positioned
there for years. Some truth to this; at Toronto, I took
out my plugs during Satisfaction--I lasted about 5 seconds.
Damn Mr. Richards--you do like it loud.

Hi msghorr,

I had the same problem than you.
My ears were ringing after a Rolling Stones show.

I had it for several months (I went to doctors) but it has disappeared.
Not totally, but I can say it has disappeared. I hear a little something if I concentrate on, but it does not bother me (and I don't want to concentrate on it).
As an example, I hear a little "shee.." in my ears now because I am thinking about it. But it is so little, that maybe I had it before but I did not notice it. If I don't think about it, I do not listen it.

At the beginning, when the sound was strong, I thought I would become crazy because it was a real torture and I thought I had it for all my life. Only people who suffer of such thing knows what I am talking about. This period was very long (3 months), enough long to feel desesperate. But now it is gone.

My advices:

1) Try to forgot this problem (easy to say, much more difficult to do).
It is in your mind, your brain has the capabilities to filter this noise (what doctors say).

2) I have listen to slow music (relaxation music like Raiki) at very low volume.
It helps me a lot (talk about that to your doctor first, maybe it is not a good advice for you).

2bis) Go to the countryside (or by the sea), to feel the fresh air in your ear.

3) Keep quite, be patient.

Strangely, for me it has strongly disappeared the day I was the most depressed, the day I thought my life has been destroyed due to this noise and there were nothing to do, except to accept it.

I understand your worries. Like me you will wear ear plugs from times to times.

I think the key is in relaxation (to stop the noise) and in the protection of your ears (for no more damage).

Good luck but I am certain you will be fine in the future.

Mathijs ... maybe you have a different definition of hearing damage/loss? The ringing in ears after a concert, even if it goes away, IS permanent hearing damage. Sorry, but I don't think you should keep stating that damage only occurs from extended exposure. I know from personal experience that you can suffer permanent hearing damage from a single concert.

Also, as far as your 103 dB level ... I'm not sure how strictly this is regulated, nor if it is truly that safe a level. Also, is the 103 dB over 15 minutes an average, or a max threshold? I've been to many, many concerts where I take my earplugs out and I would say the sound levels are approaching the "painful" category (e.g. 120dB ). Anyway, I found this chart below from google (http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-dose.html). I'm not sure if this is some kind of "official audiologist" chart, but it at least looks like a good framework and suggests it is based on a generally accepted standard formula.

Maximum Recommended Noise Dose Exposure Levels
Noise Level (dBA) ...... Maximum Exposure Time per 24 Hours
85 ...... 8 hours
88 ...... 4 hours
91 ...... 2 hours
94 ...... 1 hour
97 ...... 30 minutes
100 ...... 15 minutes
103 ...... 7.5 minutes
106 ...... 3.7 minutes
109 ...... 112 seconds
112 ...... 56 seconds
115 ...... 28 seconds
118 ...... 14 seconds
121 ...... 7 seconds
124 ...... 3 seconds
127 ...... 1 second
130–140 ...... less than 1 second
140 ...... NO EXPOSURE

This chart seems to be based on a daily exposure, and granted we aren't really talking about going to a concert every single day. Regardless, I can almost guarantee that at reasonable distance from the speaker cabinets, most concerts are averaging over the 90-95 dB range. And will definitely have moments when the sound cranks up into the 110-120 dB range, even higher. You listen to that for an hour or so, your ears will ring, and you have suffered permanent damage. The ringing might subside, but your ears have still been permanently damaged. It is obviously true that the extended exposure can bring this damage home to roost in some noticeable form of permanent damage (e.g. tinnitus), but one loud concert can still damage your hearing permanently in some way.

On another note, you can even get hearing damage from the crowd screaming. If you have tens of thousands of people screaming, the dB levels can actually rise above what the band has been playing at.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-27 19:16 by Alfonz.

Thanks for this interesting threat. In the five concerts we saw (Oakland, S.Jose, Vegas and 2 Anaheim all in the pit front row I would say the worst was very left to Ronnie's side. My wife had a Problem after S. Jose and in Vegas a Body Guard in front of us gave her hear plugs as she couldn't stand the loudness. However in Anaheim closer to Mick's Amps it was much much better and the Sound was clearer. Being in the back of the pit you did not have the noise volume (at least in London) like in the front.
I will see if we can get such earplugs you showing for the Shows we will attend.