After reading from that great "Jagger remembers" -interview the idea that a part of Stones dynamics is based on the interplay of the drummer and the singer/dancer, I watched the theatre show of Four Licks that in my mind. And yes, the tension between those two elements is most remarkably still left and doing well in the current Stones. The theatre show is really a Mick/Charlie-show. I have always kept that performance quite second rate and the weakest of those three, but I can now admire it from a new angle.

I think one the highlights of those two guys is "Worried Bout You"; although Mick's falset sounds sometimes a bit forced, the dynamical co-operation between those two men is almost dramatical sometimes; Charlie is absolutely amazing and the star of the song. How can anyone made with such a small scale effort such an incredible effect? The timing of his hits contrasting and underlining Mick's vocal lines and moves is just beyond the grasp of normal rock drummers imagination. That song is one of those rarities where Cha's drums really are the solo instrument of the song.

Another song that really is a Jagger/Watts collaboration is nothing but "Brown Sugar" itself. I have always perceived it through Keith's dominating guitar, but basically that is just an enrichening aspect of the groove. The tension is between the drum beat and Jagger's presence by jumping around and reflecting the rhythm: it is really a dance song, "going to a go-go" kind of number (as Jagger remembers it basically originating). It is no wonder that Charlie himself names it one of his favourites to play. The problem of lack of guitars will not do so much harm to the groove of the song that one could easily imagine.

The Theatre show is also only of those shows where the Stones really try to do something not very convenient, and in fact, to even surprise their fans: they made themselves sound almost a new and original; the thema is the rhythm&%blues, soul, funky, dance music-oriented band.. of course, all of that comes from their history, back pages, but they have never tried to make a full, coherent package of it. Now they do. And all this new vision of the sound relies on the shoulders of Mick and Charlie (all the rest are their sidemen). The hardcore of the set list is "Everybody Needs Somebody", "Going To A Go-Go", "Dance", "That's How Strong My Love Is", "Love Train".. That's is a brave attempt to do something different, seriously to take the Stones to a different musical landscape than we are used to since 1989. I won't say I am a best admirer of this new direction, but jeez, it is something new and original, never-heard-before, and that's not something to be mocked! Of course, all the people loving the nostalgic guitar-leading Stones will be more than disappointed of this new 'look', but I would say that in those few songs the place of the guitar work is in the place where it in its recent condition should be: just a bit enrichening the over-all sound, giving nice licks here and there. There it sounds natural, much better than in songs like "Respectable", "Hand of Fate" where the lack of the real guitar playing is too evident (Keith seemingly can not anymore carry the band).

Okay, that's enough. But I'm very happy to recognizing that great Jagger/Watts-link! If nothing else, it helps me to ignore the weak guitar playing of the current Stones. Thoughts?

- Doxa









Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2005-03-08 17:01 by Rorty.

Doxa,

I posted a week or two ago that I feel the Stones should call it quits as a performing band and concentrate on enhancing their studio-recording legacy. My reasoning was somewhat similar to your comments in that I also don’t think the guitar section can carry the band live. The studio would allow them to rely on the technology a bit to cut-and-paste, overdub, multi-track etc., for a much more listenable sound. As you say, “just a bit enrichening the over-all sound, giving nice licks here and there”. I also agree with you that there is untapped potential in the band’s roots. I believe they can add their unique flavor in RNB, soul, country, straight blues, etc. Sure they’ve done it all before, but now the chops are aged like a fine wine. They can do something new with it. Time to take that cider and reduce it down to good apple jack!

Regarding Mick and Charlie: no question they are the stars nowadays. Their level of performance and professionalism is outstanding.

Cheers,
karl

i think we shall see that keith and mick will take the stones back to thier roots with out front guitars..at least thats what don was is saying about the new album.
with ron off booze and a rested keith i think it will be a rock album, no soul or country. i think keith and ronnie also want to take back the rolling stones...
i think they have something to prove.. keith's got pride and he won't let jagger take over again.. and i know jagger is smart and he needs keith as well.
i'm very excited about this new album because the stones need a hit to keep the record companies money coming in. jagger/richards will work this time...i hope!

I was just watching Midnight Rambler from the Arena show. And what struck me there was that mick and Charlie really connected on this song. Charlie follows and leads Mick perfectly on this song. Funny how thought about this subject for a post and than reading your post on excacty the same subject bur from a different show.

Cheers,
Wuudy

Doxa commented on the Theatre show, including "Hand of Fate"...I was watching this recently and to me, it looks like Woody couldn't remember how to play it..so Keith made sure RW could see his hands, like he was showing him the chords.
Does it appear this way to anyone else?
DR

Stones quit touring and just record????

These days these guys are about MAKING $$$$$$
As long as "people" pay what they are paying to come see them live, buy the
Stones Tee-shirts,etc. that's all Mick & Keith care about!!!

And from what I've seen lately from their live shows, they don't care much
about what's being produced up on stage either. they are living off their
laurels these days, and the masses (Asses) keep forking over the money, hand
over fist.. only way their music will improve is if the people stop buying
concert tickets and they (the Stones) have to "prove" something on stage, but you know the chances of that happening. Jagger could come onstage with just him & a farting monkey and I'm sure the place would sell out because the "Rolling Stones" are headlining... MLC

Mick and Charlie are the stars of the band of late. They have not lost a thing.

"And from what I've seen lately from their live shows, they don't care much
about what's being produced up on stage either."

Do you really think the Stones don't care about how they sound of stage, if that were true they would not have the backing musicians. You are obvious not a musician to make a comment like that.

I don't have to be, I've been going to concerts since the 60's, I'vee seen the Stones at their best (72 & 73) this is a Vegas lounge act, and not a very good one at that!! These guys need a kick in the Ass!! one that someone like
Mick Taylor or Eric Clapton could give them!! MLC

Hi MLC, I do agree that they can use a kick in the ass. Well not Mick or Charlie but Ronnie and Keith could use one. The backing singers are there cause Keith and Ron don't sing anymore. Blondie is there to back up Keith's guitar, which is probably the worst thing of all. And the extra horns and louder keyboards are also to support the guitar playing. Listen to the DVD from the Bridges to Babylon tour, honestly its hard to hear one note Ronnie plays until about the fourth song. Keith plays all the solos in the first few songs and Ronnie, well you can't hear him.

Eric Clapton as a kick in the ass? LOL!!

Edward - did you see him with the Stones?? Little Red Rooster 1990

Get Eric in a Blues based situation and he could bring "something" the
Stones need right now... Go buy his DVD - Hyde Part Concert from 1996
and tell me that's not watch-able!!! MLC

Good post Doxa. Interesting view.

Charlie is the linch-pin of the Rolling Stones.

ROCKMAN

I think Rorty makes a good point about Charlie & Mick. The theatre show and meat of it, Love Train, Everybody, was great. I dont think its a new direction , its a return to their early years. You dont mention how strong The Nearness of You/BTMMR was, as well as No Expectations and Stray Cat Blues.

Agree that some songs like Respectble, Neighbors...songs were Keith had a ton of runs and licks on the original recording, come off a little repetitive when it comes to KR, his fingers just do not have the flexibility anymore. ARTHRITIS IS A BASTARD.

Charlie is great, he has had to play off Keiths Kooky sense of rythym and Micks phrasing.......which is no easy thing, especially live. His peers (are there any left ?) now how good Charlie is. Hope he is feeling well.

Milo, NYC
"Charlies sounding good tonight"