Quote
bauk77
hi,
i have to say, this complaining makes me "angry".
i attend several Shows since 1994 in europe and one in vegas from the bigger bang.
i always enjoyed the Shows they where great. i never look on their guitar playing like a music teacher. of course the style of playing changed in years,
1969 is not 2013 and for me these guys deliver great concerts.
about setlists if i go to a Stones concert i expect they play all the so named warhorses and of course they do because they have to satisfy the average concert visitors and not some diehard fans which attend every single Show.
thats my opinion and i am really looking forward to see this legends in europe again.
sorry for my poor austrian english! ;-)

You did just fine. If the Stones did their shows and set lists the way many people here would like, these 15,000 seat arenas would be half full, populated only by people who think thy know better than anyone else. As sales have shown, it's been hard enough to move tickets anyway.

The Stones didn't get where they are today by playing to niche audiences. Over time, as they and their fan base have aged, they've learned it just makes sense to become more inclusive. Yeah, I'd like to see more Mick Taylor too, but all things considered, I'm happy that he's there at all. Based on what I was told years ago by Leavell after the last tour, I didn't think they would ever tour again. Once Richards' book came out I was convinced of it. Then once the tour was announced, I was going to stay away because of the prices. But lo and behold, I found myself at the Las Vegas show and it was great.

In my opinion, people that are criticizing these shows have lost complete sight of the fact they're very lucky to see them again at all, and they should just shut the hell up and enjoy them while they can, warts and all, because most definitely this is it. Jagger can't stand Richards at this point, and if it weren't for the incredibly bad press it would generate, Jagger would pull the plug right now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-19 17:42 by Long John Stoner.

Grohl gets a lot of flack for being overexposed - fair point perhaps, but i have to tell ya, he is an awesome to talk with. He's passionate, knowledgeable an funny as freaking hell - and he's real. You may not like his style, but that energy up there last night is raw and real- that's a kid living his dream in the real world - playing like his life depends on it- because it does. You wanna rip that guy to shreds? Gimme a f---ing break.

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

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hbwriter

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andrewt
I find it notable that nobody discusses the second half of the show, as if there's a implicit acknowledgement that it's purely going through the motions.
Enquiring minds want to know, how was Miss You?

"going through the motions" can also be called "giving the people what they want" - my 16 year daughter's first stones show last night was something she'll never forget - the war horse set is not done for a bunch of gray haired malcontents that have seen the band 50 times -it's for the youth and the uninitiated - try looking at it in that light and maybe it will make mor sense. As for Miss You - I just asked my daughter what she thought of it - and she said it rocked. There's your review.

Thank you. Concisely said.

Agreed, too many "back in my day" whines, many from those not even going to the shows. Wait a sec - "Hey, you kids, get off my lawn!" I hope we're not sitting next to any of these Debbie Downer buzzkills in Chicago.

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hbwriter
Grohl gets a lot of flack for being overexposed - fair point perhaps, but i have to tell ya, he is an awesome to talk with. He's passionate, knowledgeable an funny as freaking hell - and he's real. You may not like his style, but that energy up there last night is raw and real- that's a kid living his dream in the real world - playing like his life depends on it- because it does. You wanna rip that guy to shreds? Gimme a f---ing break.

Yeah, he's suddenly everywhere. Did you make it to Fingerprints in Long Beach a while back? He played a show there a while back and was great from what I understand.

Who among us American kids didn't want to do what he's done just recently? He's played and recorded with McCartney and jammed onstage with the Stones, not to mention that film of his. Awesome stuff.

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Long John Stoner

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hbwriter
Grohl gets a lot of flack for being overexposed - fair point perhaps, but i have to tell ya, he is an awesome to talk with. He's passionate, knowledgeable an funny as freaking hell - and he's real. You may not like his style, but that energy up there last night is raw and real- that's a kid living his dream in the real world - playing like his life depends on it- because it does. You wanna rip that guy to shreds? Gimme a f---ing break.

Yeah, he's suddenly everywhere. Did you make it to Fingerprints in Long Beach a while back? He played a show there a while back and was great from what I understand.

Who among us American kids didn't want to do what he's done just recently? He's played and recorded with McCartney and jammed onstage with the Stones, not to mention that film of his. Awesome stuff.

I was there with him that day at fingerprints- I interviewed hm and my son got some great shots - [www.noisecreep.com]

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

I agree that Grohl brought great energy to the show, it would be really great if this kind of energy level would exist throughout the show, his guitar playing was ok at first but it went too far in the end and didn't suit the song very well IMO, and I didn't like his singing style, maybe my first reaction was too negative, I looked the video again and it didn't feel so bad at second time.

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Long John Stoner

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

I think you are right.
Quite sickening somehow, and sad, very sad.
Keef should finish his Xpensive Winos record and tour with his other band.
End of 50 years !!!
Jeroen

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rollingon

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

I agree that Grohl brought great energy to the show, it would be really great if this kind of energy level would exist throughout the show, his guitar playing was ok at first but it went too far in the end and didn't suit the song very well IMO, and I didn't like his singing style, maybe my first reaction was too negative, I looked the video again and it didn't feel so bad at second time.

i'm not even sure it's about the actual playing - it's about the attitude behind the actual playing - and Grohl revved it all up - fast, raw and rocking - i'll take that any night

Great gig tonight,thanks #Anaheim & Dave Grohl. Can't wait for #Staples ~ if you're coming let me know your seats, I'll try& throw u a pick!

@ronniewood

WTF is all this "Dave Grohl (who looks like Chita) should play 3 or 4 songs a night. Let's Petition blah blah blah." "Lemmy is cool because he drinks Jack Daniels and is probably writing songs right now." "Lemmy lives the rock and roll life style."
"Keith is just faking it." ???

I am pleased that lots of folks enjoyed his performance at the invitation of the Rolling Stones last night. I am sure Dave can get his own tour and do a lot more than 3 or 4 songs a night if he wants. And good luck to him.

How many guys do you know who drink Jack Daniels and write songs? Probably a few.
Ian (Lemmy) is not Keith Richards. Keith does not need to be defended. He has a very long history of being an outstanding guitarist and brilliant songwriter, along with Mick Jagger. There are lots of musicians out there, amateurs and professionals who would love to have his place. Keith is irreplaceable. He is one of a kind.
There are a lot of imitators. Keith has very luckily survived the rock and roll lifestyle. Yes, he looks very tired onstage. He is 70 years old. Let's face it, Keith doesn't really look after himself and we pay when we don't do that.

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hbwriter

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andrewt
I find it notable that nobody discusses the second half of the show, as if there's a implicit acknowledgement that it's purely going through the motions.
Enquiring minds want to know, how was Miss You?

"going through the motions" can also be called "giving the people what they want" - my 16 year daughter's first stones show last night was something she'll never forget - the war horse set is not done for a bunch of gray haired malcontents that have seen the band 50 times -it's for the youth and the uninitiated - try looking at it in that light and maybe it will make mor sense. As for Miss You - I just asked my daughter what she thought of it - and she said it rocked. There's your review.

I am glad your daughter got to enjoy the show, but let's face it, how many seats are filled with people taking their kids or even more unlikely, groups of under 30's ready to rock out? The "youth" couldn't afford to go in a million years unless they have a trust fund, assuming they felt like it. FWIW, I'm not even that old, and certainly neither grey haired nor a malcontent. I'm simply sharing my observations.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-19 18:17 by andrewt.

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Long John Stoner

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bauk77
hi,
i have to say, this complaining makes me "angry".
i attend several Shows since 1994 in europe and one in vegas from the bigger bang.
i always enjoyed the Shows they where great. i never look on their guitar playing like a music teacher. of course the style of playing changed in years,
1969 is not 2013 and for me these guys deliver great concerts.
about setlists if i go to a Stones concert i expect they play all the so named warhorses and of course they do because they have to satisfy the average concert visitors and not some diehard fans which attend every single Show.
thats my opinion and i am really looking forward to see this legends in europe again.
sorry for my poor austrian english! ;-)

You did just fine. If the Stones did their shows and set lists the way many people here would like, these 15,000 seat arenas would be half full, populated only by people who think thy know better than anyone else. As sales have shown, it's been hard enough to move tickets anyway.

The Stones didn't get where they are today by playing to niche audiences. Over time, as they and their fan base have aged, they've learned it just makes sense to become more inclusive. Yeah, I'd like to see more Mick Taylor too, but all things considered, I'm happy that he's there at all. Based on what I was told years ago by Leavell after the last tour, I didn't think they would ever tour again. Once Richards' book came out I was convinced of it. Then once the tour was announced, I was going to stay away because of the prices. But lo and behold, I found myself at the Las Vegas show and it was great.

In my opinion, people that are criticizing these shows have lost complete sight of the fact they're very lucky to see them again at all, and they should just shut the hell up and enjoy them while they can, warts and all, because most definitely this is it. Jagger can't stand Richards at this point, and if it weren't for the incredibly bad press it would generate, Jagger would pull the plug right now.

Agree with almost all you say, except the point that if they mixed it up a little, 3 or 4 fewer warhorses each night and 3 or 4 newer songs or older rarities, sales would suffer. The reason they don't is that they are unwilling to put in the necessary rehearsal time to get the band to the point where they can play these different things. I agree that Mick and Woody (and Chuck) have done a masterful job of putting together an enjoyable show despite the fact that the formerly main man doesn't have it anymore. I totally enjoyed the show I saw in Bklyn and am looking forward to my upcoming Philly show.

just wait a durn minute now. keith don't have it? i thought the consensus was that keith was BACK!?? have we turned on him so soon? i'm fine with that, but i need to know which way the winds are blowin' first. i'm confused.

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Long John Stoner

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

Yes, very perceptive. There are clearly some kind of mind games going on now, Keith really gets his punishment now for his book and the things he has said in various interviews. It's like a really messed up marriage.

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rollingon

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Long John Stoner

Quote
hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

Yes, very perceptive. There are clearly some kind of mind games going on now, Keith really gets his punishment now for his book and the things he has said in various interviews. It's like a really messed up marriage.

are they beyond the point where some make-up sex can fix things?

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Rokyfan

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Long John Stoner

Quote
bauk77
hi,
i have to say, this complaining makes me "angry".
i attend several Shows since 1994 in europe and one in vegas from the bigger bang.
i always enjoyed the Shows they where great. i never look on their guitar playing like a music teacher. of course the style of playing changed in years,
1969 is not 2013 and for me these guys deliver great concerts.
about setlists if i go to a Stones concert i expect they play all the so named warhorses and of course they do because they have to satisfy the average concert visitors and not some diehard fans which attend every single Show.
thats my opinion and i am really looking forward to see this legends in europe again.
sorry for my poor austrian english! ;-)

You did just fine. If the Stones did their shows and set lists the way many people here would like, these 15,000 seat arenas would be half full, populated only by people who think thy know better than anyone else. As sales have shown, it's been hard enough to move tickets anyway.

The Stones didn't get where they are today by playing to niche audiences. Over time, as they and their fan base have aged, they've learned it just makes sense to become more inclusive. Yeah, I'd like to see more Mick Taylor too, but all things considered, I'm happy that he's there at all. Based on what I was told years ago by Leavell after the last tour, I didn't think they would ever tour again. Once Richards' book came out I was convinced of it. Then once the tour was announced, I was going to stay away because of the prices. But lo and behold, I found myself at the Las Vegas show and it was great.

In my opinion, people that are criticizing these shows have lost complete sight of the fact they're very lucky to see them again at all, and they should just shut the hell up and enjoy them while they can, warts and all, because most definitely this is it. Jagger can't stand Richards at this point, and if it weren't for the incredibly bad press it would generate, Jagger would pull the plug right now.

Agree with almost all you say, except the point that if they mixed it up a little, 3 or 4 fewer warhorses each night and 3 or 4 newer songs or older rarities, sales would suffer. The reason they don't is that they are unwilling to put in the necessary rehearsal time to get the band to the point where they can play these different things. I agree that Mick and Woody (and Chuck) have done a masterful job of putting together an enjoyable show despite the fact that the formerly main man doesn't have it anymore. I totally enjoyed the show I saw in Bklyn and am looking forward to my upcoming Philly show.

Individual rehearsal is lacking - band rehearsal a month should be more than enough. Some of the band members basically do not play between the big tours and that is the main problem. Nobody metion - but everybody who is the lazy one.

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GRNRBITW

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rollingon

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Long John Stoner

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

Yes, very perceptive. There are clearly some kind of mind games going on now, Keith really gets his punishment now for his book and the things he has said in various interviews. It's like a really messed up marriage.

are they beyond the point where some make-up sex can fix things?

Or maybe some marriage counselling?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-19 18:23 by rollingon.

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rollingon

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GRNRBITW

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rollingon

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Long John Stoner

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

Yes, very perceptive. There are clearly some kind of mind games going on now, Keith really gets his punishment now for his book and the things he has said in various interviews. It's like a really messed up marriage.

are they beyond the point where some make-up sex can fix things?

Yeah, maybe that has been the problem all along, Mick wanted Keith and Keith said no way.

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andrewt

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hbwriter

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andrewt
I find it notable that nobody discusses the second half of the show, as if there's a implicit acknowledgement that it's purely going through the motions.
Enquiring minds want to know, how was Miss You?

"going through the motions" can also be called "giving the people what they want" - my 16 year daughter's first stones show last night was something she'll never forget - the war horse set is not done for a bunch of gray haired malcontents that have seen the band 50 times -it's for the youth and the uninitiated - try looking at it in that light and maybe it will make mor sense. As for Miss You - I just asked my daughter what she thought of it - and she said it rocked. There's your review.

I am glad your daughter got to enjoy the show, but let's face it, how many seats are filled with people taking their kids or even more unlikely, groups of under 30's ready to rock out? The "youth" couldn't afford to go in a million years unless they have a trust fund, assuming they felt like it. FWIW, I'm not even that old, and certainly neither grey haired nor a malcontent. I'm simply sharing my observations.

i saw a ton of kids at the show last night - families - look it's a tough balance-i'm sorry the two new tunes take up space- there are things they want to do - and HAVE to do - bitch, silver, and shattered were strong adds last night, i thought - me? i'd lose the two new songs, kill sympathy and you got me rocking - and add another five lesser played tunes - then i think EVERYONE would be happy - but it ain't me - or you - it's them - and many have died frustrated trying to figure tHEM out

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hbwriter
i saw a ton of kids at the show last night - families - look it's a tough balance-i'm sorry the two new tunes take up space- there are things they want to do - and HAVE to do - bitch, silver, and shattered were strong adds last night, i thought - me? i'd lose the two new songs, kill sympathy and you got me rocking - and add another five lesser played tunes - then i think EVERYONE would be happy

ha. you think i'm THAT easy?

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rollingon

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Long John Stoner

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hbwriter
And if you look at Jagger with Grohl - he seems to be feeling, "Thank god someone with crazy energy like me is up here - this is what a show is supposed to be"

What he's doing is using Grohl as a Keith substitute. He'll play and get all excited with Raitt, Fogerty, Perry, Mayer, Urban and Grohl, but not Keith. It's his way of punishing him somehow, their little soap opera being played out as they approach 70 years old on American stages every few nights.

Yes, very perceptive. There are clearly some kind of mind games going on now, Keith really gets his punishment now for his book and the things he has said in various interviews. It's like a really messed up marriage.

You know, because really what I wrote is my opinion based upon what I've seen, I'd hate to be right about this. People have been wondering why the guests for each and every show, and maybe it's this- all the guests are at Jagger's insistence because for all intents and purposes, Richards doesn't exist for Jagger anymore. The guests are being used as a way to rub it in Richards' face. Jagger has to bring somebody in each show to play with. Boy would I like to be wrong about that because if so, why bother with a tour? Stay at home then.

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Long John Stoner
Stay at home then.

hey....i already thought of that. don't steal my ideas.

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rollingon

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Rollin92
He had that solo on the bag at the 25th Nov 02, he hasn't been able to get anywhere near that since...frustrating because he is more than capable of doing it.

Yes I just watched it and there really is some real effort, Keith should
make it even better than this, then we could really have something..

I haven't read the entire thread, so I might have missed it, but the difference between this SFTD solo and others on the tour is pretty obvious to me - he's not walking around the ramp while he plays. Think about a guy nearing 70, playing the guitar while walking around a four foot wide circular ramp that slopes down and up at the ends, all the while having to maintain eye contact with the audience. It's the same with Ronnie's solos on numbers like Start Me Up, where he is running around the perimeter of the B stage as he plays. It's show business - and it's great show business - but it won't sound too good on the bootleg. I have no problem with it. By making sure he goes around the ramp, Keith is making a lot of fans very happy, which is how it should be.

As for young people in the audience, there were many at the first Staples show and the Oakland show that I attended. Many had picked up $85 tickets, while others obviously just have enough money to afford it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-19 18:58 by drbryant.

I never thought I'd say I am sick of SFTD, but I am sick of SFTD.

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REMChicagoBOY
I never thought I'd say I am sick of SFTD, but I am sick of SFTD.

i always knew you'd say it...

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drbryant


I haven't read the entire thread, so I might have missed it, but the difference between this SFTD solo and others on the tour is pretty obvious to me - he's not walking around the ramp while he plays. Think about a guy nearing 70, playing the guitar while walking around a four foot wide circular ramp that slopes down and up at the ends, all the while having to maintain eye contact with the audience. It's the same with Ronnie's solos on numbers like Start Me Up, where he is running around the perimeter of the B stage as he plays. It's show business - and it's great show business - but it won't sound too good on the bootleg. I have no problem with it. By making sure he goes around the ramp, Keith is making a lot of fans very happy, which is how it should be.

Yes, I think you have a good point here. It's show business but personally I'd like Keith to really focus on playing during SFTD solos and other more difficult playing parts and walk around the ramp during easier songs or when playing only some riffs. But I understand the balancing here is not so easy. ("Balancing" here in two different meanings!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-19 19:19 by rollingon.

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sabata
You got the silver

Wonderful!

So, as fans we are petty for wanting an acceptable product, but the two 70 year olds acting like children is excusable. Do I have this right. Again, how many casual fans are paying this much money. I am crying BS! Additionally, is it really worse to call it like you see it, instead of making excuses for your beloved? Hssss my precious.