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DandelionPowderman

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svt22

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Jesse
Great to see how many of you now realize that MT is inconsistant and shouldn't be playing on more than 3 songs. He can't be trusted not to screw up. If Jagger seems to be zeroed in on him, it's because he's watching for his f-ups or for him trying to change what audiences want. With the exception of one particular MR in Chicago, MT drags these concerts down. If KR looks a little bored, it's because he has to pretend to love what MT is doing. Poor Ronnie, he's just being polite.

Dawg, don't go crazy 'cause I speak the truth.

Dawg, you lost this thread argument. No -- MT's playing lost it for you!

I think Taylor's current level suits the Stones perfectly well.

And everybody is happy he is back on stage with the Stones.

Yup. Once you accept that the whole thing is a nostalgia tour it becomes much easier to enjoy it for what it is or ignore it and still be a Stones fan.

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sonomastone

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DandelionPowderman

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svt22

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Jesse
Great to see how many of you now realize that MT is inconsistant and shouldn't be playing on more than 3 songs. He can't be trusted not to screw up. If Jagger seems to be zeroed in on him, it's because he's watching for his f-ups or for him trying to change what audiences want. With the exception of one particular MR in Chicago, MT drags these concerts down. If KR looks a little bored, it's because he has to pretend to love what MT is doing. Poor Ronnie, he's just being polite.

Dawg, don't go crazy 'cause I speak the truth.

Dawg, you lost this thread argument. No -- MT's playing lost it for you!

I think Taylor's current level suits the Stones perfectly well.

And everybody is happy he is back on stage with the Stones.

Yup. Once you accept that the whole thing is a nostalgia tour it becomes much easier to enjoy it for what it is or ignore it and still be a Stones fan.

There's always this bit of hope things change for the better, certainly in Taylor's case.

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svt22

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sonomastone

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DandelionPowderman

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svt22

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Jesse
Great to see how many of you now realize that MT is inconsistant and shouldn't be playing on more than 3 songs. He can't be trusted not to screw up. If Jagger seems to be zeroed in on him, it's because he's watching for his f-ups or for him trying to change what audiences want. With the exception of one particular MR in Chicago, MT drags these concerts down. If KR looks a little bored, it's because he has to pretend to love what MT is doing. Poor Ronnie, he's just being polite.

Dawg, don't go crazy 'cause I speak the truth.

Dawg, you lost this thread argument. No -- MT's playing lost it for you!

I think Taylor's current level suits the Stones perfectly well.

And everybody is happy he is back on stage with the Stones.

Yup. Once you accept that the whole thing is a nostalgia tour it becomes much easier to enjoy it for what it is or ignore it and still be a Stones fan.

There's always this bit of hope things change for the better, certainly in Taylor's case.

I'd love to see him play again on a Keith solo album! What those two do is so complementary.

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sonomastone

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svt22

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sonomastone

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DandelionPowderman

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svt22

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Jesse
Great to see how many of you now realize that MT is inconsistant and shouldn't be playing on more than 3 songs. He can't be trusted not to screw up. If Jagger seems to be zeroed in on him, it's because he's watching for his f-ups or for him trying to change what audiences want. With the exception of one particular MR in Chicago, MT drags these concerts down. If KR looks a little bored, it's because he has to pretend to love what MT is doing. Poor Ronnie, he's just being polite.

Dawg, don't go crazy 'cause I speak the truth.

Dawg, you lost this thread argument. No -- MT's playing lost it for you!

I think Taylor's current level suits the Stones perfectly well.

And everybody is happy he is back on stage with the Stones.

Yup. Once you accept that the whole thing is a nostalgia tour it becomes much easier to enjoy it for what it is or ignore it and still be a Stones fan.

There's always this bit of hope things change for the better, certainly in Taylor's case.

I'd love to see him play again on a Keith solo album! What those two do is so complementary.

Exactly. And that's what I've been missing since he left. Keith and Mick need each other for some strange reason.

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DandelionPowderman

Now you do...

Well Dandelion, i rather like Taylor's performance here, even if he isn't quite in tune at times, simply because he's still doing what the Stones collectively used to do so well when they were at their peak, and when they were still living up to their name as 'the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world'. There is a rawness and spontaneity here which has been severely lacking for several decades within the safe predictability of the Stones live sound, which i think Taylor deserves full credit for, whether he's fully successful or not, for at least attempting to break the mould, and going against the grain of those strict (non rock 'n' roll) principles with which the Stones have set in stone for so very very long. I don't understand those fans who just want the Stones to forever play it safe, where they go through the motions from show to show, where those shows have so little distinction to separate them, or seeing the Stones never playing with any true freshness or spontaneity. Taylor has brought the Stones back to life, so to speak.

The true question really is whether the other Stones are up for the challenge, and ready to take a few risks along the way. At the moment i'd say they are not, and are distinctly uncomfortable with Taylor's involvement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-06 18:40 by Edward Twining.

Edward, you make some good points. My way of looking at it is thru a lens of loyalty and who's been playing together for the past 38 yrs. That might smack of a farewell tour but that's how I see it -- but I hope they all play for 50 more years!! But I give the nod to Ronnie and Keefe playing together, I think that's what most fans want to see. Not all obviously, but most.

It's nice that they brought in MT and I hope he's going to do well for himself. But it's hard to have someone come in and try to prove something after 38 yrs. which is what I think he's trying to do. I keep thinking: HE left THEM. What I don't want is for MT to mess up the remainder of this tour so that people who don't really know and love the fans think they're not "on" any more. I think they've been playing great -- not like they used to but great. I see MT as a loose cannon and these shows are not the place to experiement if you ask me. Folks who pay $800 don't want to see MT throw off the pace.

I like your style Edward Twining. You write with brains and passion for the Stones. Peace.

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Jesse
Edward, you make some good points. My way of looking at it is thru a lens of loyalty and who's been playing together for the past 38 yrs. That might smack of a farewell tour but that's how I see it -- but I hope they all play for 50 more years!! But I give the nod to Ronnie and Keefe playing together, I think that's what most fans want to see. Not all obviously, but most.

It's nice that they brought in MT and I hope he's going to do well for himself. But it's hard to have someone come in and try to prove something after 38 yrs. which is what I think he's trying to do. I keep thinking: HE left THEM. What I don't want is for MT to mess up the remainder of this tour so that people who don't really know and love the fans think they're not "on" any more. I think they've been playing great -- not like they used to but great. I see MT as a loose cannon and these shows are not the place to experiement if you ask me. Folks who pay $800 don't want to see MT throw off the pace.

I like your style Edward Twining. You write with brains and passion for the Stones. Peace.

Rock 'n roll like the Stones used to create with Taylor, and before with Jones, isn't a safe game, it's "no rock 'n roll show" (MR-lyrics) intended to please folks who pay those 800 dollars or euros. It's meant to be adventurous, daring and dangerous. That's the way the Taylor Stones always have played: on the edge and sometimes over it. But always interesting and exciting. Those who want to keep it clean can eternally play their studio albums. Anyway, when I see and hear the crowd's (and YT-watchers') reaction to Knocking, MR and Sway I know I'm not the only one who loves to see new musical blood pumped into this somewhat stale and stiff band.

Making such a fuss about some miss and hit notes by Taylor during the Satisfaction, the last, festive number, doesn't make any difference at all. But oh well, it's grist to the mill for those who have a hidden agenda: to bring Taylor down, even by praising him to the skies sometimes.

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Edward Twining

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DandelionPowderman

Now you do...

Well Dandelion, i rather like Taylor's performance here, even if he isn't quite in tune at times, simply because he's still doing what the Stones collectively used to do so well when they were at their peak, and when they were still living up to their name as 'the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world'. There is a rawness and spontaneity here which has been severely lacking for several decades within the safe predictability of the Stones live sound, which i think Taylor deserves full credit for, whether he's fully successful or not, for at least attempting to break the mould, and going against the grain of those strict (non rock 'n' roll) principles with which the Stones have set in stone for so very very long. I don't understand those fans who just want the Stones to forever play it safe, where they go through the motions from show to show, where those shows have so little distinction to separate them, or seeing the Stones never playing with any true freshness or spontaneity. Taylor has brought the Stones back to life, so to speak.

The true question really is whether the other Stones are up for the challenge, and ready to take a few risks along the way. At the moment i'd say they are not, and are distinctly uncomfortable with Taylor's involvement.

Come on, Edward!

I'm pretty sure not even Taylor likes this. If you are taking chances and seek to expand something, to create art - that's certainly enrichening for many.

But it has to add some value - other than the effort alone. This is unspired as well...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-06 19:41 by DandelionPowderman.

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kleermaker

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Jesse
Edward, you make some good points. My way of looking at it is thru a lens of loyalty and who's been playing together for the past 38 yrs. That might smack of a farewell tour but that's how I see it -- but I hope they all play for 50 more years!! But I give the nod to Ronnie and Keefe playing together, I think that's what most fans want to see. Not all obviously, but most.

It's nice that they brought in MT and I hope he's going to do well for himself. But it's hard to have someone come in and try to prove something after 38 yrs. which is what I think he's trying to do. I keep thinking: HE left THEM. What I don't want is for MT to mess up the remainder of this tour so that people who don't really know and love the fans think they're not "on" any more. I think they've been playing great -- not like they used to but great. I see MT as a loose cannon and these shows are not the place to experiement if you ask me. Folks who pay $800 don't want to see MT throw off the pace.

I like your style Edward Twining. You write with brains and passion for the Stones. Peace.

Rock 'n roll like the Stones used to create with Taylor, and before with Jones, isn't a safe game, it's "no rock 'n roll show" (MR-lyrics) intended to please folks who pay those 800 dollars or euros. It's meant to be adventurous, daring and dangerous. That's the way the Taylor Stones always have played: on the edge and sometimes over it. But always interesting and exciting. Those who want to keep it clean can eternally play their studio albums. Anyway, when I see and hear the crowd's (and YT-watchers') reaction to Knocking, MR and Sway I know I'm not the only one who loves to see new musical blood pumped into this somewhat stale and stiff band.

Making such a fuss about some miss and hit notes by Taylor during the Satisfaction, the last, festive number, doesn't make any difference at all. But oh well, it's grist to the mill for those who have a hidden agenda: to bring Taylor down, even by praising him to the skies sometimes.

This is below you, kleerie.

Aren't you tired of this "Satisfaction" video? And how it persistently gets diverted.

Well, perhaps it is, Dandie. Criticizing, opinions, it's all okay, but permanently hammering on the same thing and butchering is out of proportion. It made me a bit mad. So excuse me. Emotions are sometimes running too fast I guess. Time to calm down now and enjoy a festive performance of Satisfaction!

Let`s all hope on a great concert tonight, and hoping that Mick Taylor play beautiful solo`s.

The Satisfaction nonsense is kind of like singling out a guitar during the RnR Hall of Fame jam at the end of the show, where they have everybody and their brother on stage. There's one or two guitars that are meant to be heard, most of the players are just going thru the motions. There's probably a handful of people that believe MT even knew he was audible, and they all post here.

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StonesCat
The Satisfaction nonsense is kind of like singling out a guitar during the RnR Hall of Fame jam at the end of the show, where they have everybody and their brother on stage. There's one or two guitars that are meant to be heard, most of the players are just going thru the motions. There's probably a handful of people that believe MT even knew he was audible, and they all post here.

True. Then again, now I expect you to be the first to point this out the next time Keith is criticised for doing the same widdling

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Jesse
It's nice that they brought in MT and I hope he's going to do well for himself. But it's hard to have someone come in and try to prove something after 38 yrs. which is what I think he's trying to do. I keep thinking: HE left THEM. What I don't want is for MT to mess up the remainder of this tour so that people who don't really know and love the fans think they're not "on" any more. I think they've been playing great -- not like they used to but great. I see MT as a loose cannon and these shows are not the place to experiement if you ask me. Folks who pay $800 don't want to see MT throw off the pace.

.

Jesse, i would agree with you certainly with regards to a lack of integration between Taylor and the Stones, the difference between us perhaps being that i still feel the Stones sound better with him, despite moments when things sound maybe that they are about to go a little awry. That may actually be the way the Stones did sound to a degree back in the day when Taylor was a member, when the group did play a little more on the edge. However, they never quite crossed that line then, and today they/Taylor do sound a little more in danger of that happening what with Taylor's occasional timing/tuning issues etc. However, as a listening experience, i find it hard not to feel a renewed sense of excitement listening to the songs Taylor is playing on. The truth is, i feel, Taylor has spent the best part of his time since leaving the Stones playing in smaller venues, where the focus is on the quality of the playing, where there's nowhere to hide, so to speak, while the Stones have embraced an ever larger spectacle. That's certainly not to say Taylor isn't prone to mistakes, timing issues etc, I have witnessed a few of his less than inspiring solo performances myself in the past, yet for what he occasionally falls short on in technical terms, he makes up for when he does manage to get into full flow, which for me trancends pretty much everything the rest of the Stones have managed to achieve (meaning primarily Keith and Ronnie) post 1981.

If Taylor can be faulted for what he has brought to the Stones in these recent performances, then i think it's only fair that the Stones should take a share of the blame for their own misjudgements too etc. 'Sway' for example, is played too fast, almost in a pop song type vein, where Jagger and the rest of the Stones completely fail to connect with what made the original song so great. The slow sort of fatigued tempo with the Jagger growling vocal is nowhere to be found, and it's only Taylor's fine guitar work that goes anywhere near to evoking memories of the original. But alas, the tempo is all wrong, and Taylor is trying to adapt himself into something which is so totally ill fitting.

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Edward Twining

Well Dandelion, i rather like Taylor's performance here, even if he isn't quite in tune at times, simply because he's still doing what the Stones collectively used to do so well when they were at their peak, and when they were still living up to their name as 'the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world'. There is a rawness and spontaneity here which has been severely lacking for several decades within the safe predictability of the Stones live sound, which i think Taylor deserves full credit for, whether he's fully successful or not, for at least attempting to break the mould, and going against the grain of those strict (non rock 'n' roll) principles with which the Stones have set in stone for so very very long. I don't understand those fans who just want the Stones to forever play it safe, where they go through the motions from show to show, where those shows have so little distinction to separate them, or seeing the Stones never playing with any true freshness or spontaneity. Taylor has brought the Stones back to life, so to speak.

The true question really is whether the other Stones are up for the challenge, and ready to take a few risks along the way. At the moment i'd say they are not, and are distinctly uncomfortable with Taylor's involvement.

Well, I was at the show, and live it sounded great. I was happy Tayor was adding something a little different. I'd like him to do more of it. The song highlighted Keith anyway. So then I get back home and watch the videos and you can catch some mess ups. Maybe that's the problem with all the instant video. I could see how you'd get too scared to play out of your comfort zone. But heck, it's rock and roll and that's what you gotta do, or at least that's my opinion anyway.

--The Stones have nothing to prove. They fill arena after arena -- and MT isn't the drawing card.

--It's a matter of taste isn't it? You either like the two guitar sound of Ronnie and Keefe or you like longer guitar solos in which somebody is declared "best" guitarist. One can't argue taste. I like red, you like blue.

--Places like Chicago's United Center aren't the right venues for "experimenting" and taking risks; musicians do that in small clubs w/small audiences.


--MT didn't give the Stones new life -- no way. THEY gave HIM new life.

--If any of the Stones or even MT (he's not a Stone, sorry) read the comments on this thread, they'd probably laugh and tell each of us to get a life!

My great Hero Keith looks more like a statue on this tour ..........so I'm happy with Mick.....the more guitars the better

__________________________

Edward, I wrote my prior post re size of venues before reading what you said about MT probably playing in smaller places and being geared toward quality and longer solos. I agree with you.

Have a good one.

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DandelionPowderman

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StonesCat
The Satisfaction nonsense is kind of like singling out a guitar during the RnR Hall of Fame jam at the end of the show, where they have everybody and their brother on stage. There's one or two guitars that are meant to be heard, most of the players are just going thru the motions. There's probably a handful of people that believe MT even knew he was audible, and they all post here.

True. Then again, now I expect you to be the first to point this out the next time Keith is criticised for doing the same widdling

I thought the Chicago 2 show was great from all involved. The only time I thought any guitarist was a little shaky was during Shine A Light w/Ronnie, and that's just going off my memory. I purposely didn't watch any tour clips beforehand, besides the MT and guest spots, and the warhorses sounded great to me.

I've gone from excitement before the tour at MT being majorly involved, to disappointment w/just Rambler, to contentment with Rambler/Satisfaction and one other MT showcase (especially since my one show had CYHMK). I've accepted the way he's being used now and I think two showcases a night is about right. The way that the others have accepted him and let him stand with them for the final core group bow is majorly cool. Ronnie especially has been incredibly gracious, so I vowed not to criticize him, and he's playing well overall anyway.

My only hopes now are for a couple different tunes for Taylor. Knocking is a great song for the group, but Sway is not that good aside from Taylor's soloing. It's pretty clear he's either always on a tune, or never on it, so I'm hoping for a Love in Vain spot, or Moonlight Mile, which wouldn't be right to play without him. It was on the fan vote, and was rehearsed, so there's a chance.

I just want to see MT in more Rock songs...like GS, SFTD, BS, YCAGWYW and JJF.

I know 20 other long-time Stones fans and everyone of them want more Mick Taylor. Only Ass Clowns on the Board seem to claim to be Stones fans but don't like Taylor....LOL

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duffydawg
I know 20 other long-time Stones fans and everyone of them want more Mick Taylor. Only Ass Clowns on the Board seem to claim to be Stones fans but don't like Taylor....LOL

--I know 20 other long-time Stones fans who think Deputy duffyDawg is an Ass Clown. LOL.

San Jose's Satisfaction: best pick for sure.

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duffydawg
I know 20 other long-time Stones fans and everyone of them want more Mick Taylor. Only Ass Clowns on the Board seem to claim to be Stones fans but don't like Taylor....LOL

There is no one here who "don't like Taylor". However, there are many who think that the show not necessarily will become better if he plays on all songs.

3-5 songs are perfect, imo.

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StonesCat

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DandelionPowderman

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StonesCat
The Satisfaction nonsense is kind of like singling out a guitar during the RnR Hall of Fame jam at the end of the show, where they have everybody and their brother on stage. There's one or two guitars that are meant to be heard, most of the players are just going thru the motions. There's probably a handful of people that believe MT even knew he was audible, and they all post here.

True. Then again, now I expect you to be the first to point this out the next time Keith is criticised for doing the same widdling

I thought the Chicago 2 show was great from all involved. The only time I thought any guitarist was a little shaky was during Shine A Light w/Ronnie, and that's just going off my memory. I purposely didn't watch any tour clips beforehand, besides the MT and guest spots, and the warhorses sounded great to me.

I've gone from excitement before the tour at MT being majorly involved, to disappointment w/just Rambler, to contentment with Rambler/Satisfaction and one other MT showcase (especially since my one show had CYHMK). I've accepted the way he's being used now and I think two showcases a night is about right. The way that the others have accepted him and let him stand with them for the final core group bow is majorly cool. Ronnie especially has been incredibly gracious, so I vowed not to criticize him, and he's playing well overall anyway.

My only hopes now are for a couple different tunes for Taylor. Knocking is a great song for the group, but Sway is not that good aside from Taylor's soloing. It's pretty clear he's either always on a tune, or never on it, so I'm hoping for a Love in Vain spot, or Moonlight Mile, which wouldn't be right to play without him. It was on the fan vote, and was rehearsed, so there's a chance.

That pretty much sums up where I'm at too at this stage. Especially regarding the Stones having accepted him and made him feel at home. A wonderful gesture, a couple of years ago who would have thought it was possible?

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Jesse
--The Stones have nothing to prove. They fill arena after arena -- and MT isn't the drawing card.

--It's a matter of taste isn't it? You either like the two guitar sound of Ronnie and Keefe or you like longer guitar solos in which somebody is declared "best" guitarist. One can't argue taste. I like red, you like blue.

--Places like Chicago's United Center aren't the right venues for "experimenting" and taking risks; musicians do that in small clubs w/small audiences.


--MT didn't give the Stones new life -- no way. THEY gave HIM new life.

--If any of the Stones or even MT (he's not a Stone, sorry) read the comments on this thread, they'd probably laugh and tell each of us to get a life!

The thing is Jessie, people go to see the Stones mainly because of nostalgia, and it's a testament to the Stones that when they were in their prime they were so utterly brilliant, that today people are still in awe of just getting a whiff of them and their old magic, even if it's now largely diluted. It's not necessarily a competition between Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood, either, but more about their own previous rock 'n' roll sensibilities v the more conservative approach of the last three decades, where the rock 'n' roll spontaneity has been taken out of the equation, and replaced by professionalism. Mick Taylor to a point still represents an element of what they once were. I'm not saying he hasn't aged as well, and within his musical capabilities, too, but his approach is still with a greater degree of spontaneity and edge. Years ago the Stones would have revelled in this approach, but sadly not any more. This early approach is what made them what they are today, with regards to fans still wanting to see them, and not what the safe approach entails which they have acquired in more recent decades. Many fans have hesitantly accepted their more recent shows because at least they have the option to still see them, but many of them really long for those earlier times - with Brian Jones, Mick Taylor AND the younger Ronnie Wood.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-07 10:56 by Edward Twining.

CYHMK Toronto June 6th 2013



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-07 11:12 by MarkSchneider.

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Edward Twining

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Jesse
--The Stones have nothing to prove. They fill arena after arena -- and MT isn't the drawing card.

--It's a matter of taste isn't it? You either like the two guitar sound of Ronnie and Keefe or you like longer guitar solos in which somebody is declared "best" guitarist. One can't argue taste. I like red, you like blue.

--Places like Chicago's United Center aren't the right venues for "experimenting" and taking risks; musicians do that in small clubs w/small audiences.


--MT didn't give the Stones new life -- no way. THEY gave HIM new life.

--If any of the Stones or even MT (he's not a Stone, sorry) read the comments on this thread, they'd probably laugh and tell each of us to get a life!

The thing is Jessie, people go to see the Stones mainly because of nostalgia, and it's a testament to the Stones that when they were in their prime they were so utterly brilliant, that today people are still in awe of just getting a whiff of them and their old magic, even if it's now largely diluted. It's not necessarily a competition between Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood, either, but more about their own previous rock 'n' roll sensibilities v the more conservative approach of the last three decades, where the rock 'n' roll spontaneity has been taken out of the equation, and replaced by professionalism. Mick Taylor to a point still represents an element of what they once were. I'm not saying he hasn't aged as well, and within his musical capabilities, too, but his approach is still with a greater degree of spontaneity and edge. Years ago the Stones would have revelled in this approach, but sadly not any more. This early approach is what made them what they are today, with regards to fans still wanting to see them, and not what the safe approach entails which they have acquired in more recent decades. Many fans have hesitantly accepted their more recent shows because at least they have the option to still see them, but many of them really long for those earlier times - with Brian Jones, Mick Taylor AND the younger Ronnie Wood.

I really do understand what you say Edward and I can't disagree with you. I get annoyed with the people who say nothing but "more MT, more MT. Ronnie is nothing.... MT is the best".... etc. I might be a little younger than some of you (maybe) and have loved the Stones all my life but the only Stones group that I've ever seen is the present one with Ronnie -- so I love HIM, not MT.
I've seen old videos but I never even heard RT speak -- I honestly didn't know he was still around! So enough from me about my preferences for Ronnie. He's my guy but I understand what you see in MT. I just wish other people who write on this thread were able to express themselves like you. There'd be more unity and less bitching. Thanks. jesse

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MarkSchneider



CYHMK Toronto June 6th 2013

that's funny at the end , keith applauds and charlie gives it the big finish with only darryl responding , charlie points at him !