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noughties
It`s a wonder those singles could sell at all. Who bought it? A single is supposed to be a stand out track. If you didn`t know better you`d think so when seeing the cover.

But it was a stand out-track. And it was a top 10-hit in the UK, in the US, as well as in our country

For me, it was the obvious choice as a single off BAB. Memory Motel is too long. Hot Stuff could have been a single, but the verses and the vibe is a bit off to gather the masses, imo.

Certainly it was a braver choice of single than, say, Crazy Mama or Hand of Fate. Solid rockers, but a little formulaic, even then.

It's what Keith would call a great record. All the various elements work, great production. I used to feel guilty for liking it but not anymore.

The earlier version. [youtu.be]

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DandelionPowderman

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noughties
It`s a wonder those singles could sell at all. Who bought it? A single is supposed to be a stand out track. If you didn`t know better you`d think so when seeing the cover.

But it was a stand out-track. And it was a top 10-hit in the UK, in the US, as well as in our country

For me, it was the obvious choice as a single off BAB. Memory Motel is too long. Hot Stuff could have been a single, but the verses and the vibe is a bit off to gather the masses, imo.

Actually "Hot Stuff" was released as a single in France. And it topped the charts there!

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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noughties
It`s a wonder those singles could sell at all. Who bought it? A single is supposed to be a stand out track. If you didn`t know better you`d think so when seeing the cover.

But it was a stand out-track. And it was a top 10-hit in the UK, in the US, as well as in our country

For me, it was the obvious choice as a single off BAB. Memory Motel is too long. Hot Stuff could have been a single, but the verses and the vibe is a bit off to gather the masses, imo.

Actually "Hot Stuff" was released as a single in France. And it topped the charts there!

- Doxa

And Streets Of Love topped the charts in Spain

However, by «the masses» I meant «the world», or at least the biggest market.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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noughties
It`s a wonder those singles could sell at all. Who bought it? A single is supposed to be a stand out track. If you didn`t know better you`d think so when seeing the cover.

But it was a stand out-track. And it was a top 10-hit in the UK, in the US, as well as in our country

For me, it was the obvious choice as a single off BAB. Memory Motel is too long. Hot Stuff could have been a single, but the verses and the vibe is a bit off to gather the masses, imo.

Actually "Hot Stuff" was released as a single in France. And it topped the charts there!

- Doxa

And Streets Of Love topped the charts in Spain

However, by «the masses» I meant «the world», or at least the biggest market.

Well, if the biggest market means USA, there it was released as a follow up to "Fool to Cry", but making only #49 in charts. However, it was labeled there as a 'promo single', whatever that means (mostly for radio plays or something).

For the great French success, I guess them performing there first time for six years had a great impact in boosting the sales. I might imagine there was a great Stones hype at the time. Or that the French people just have a great taste...

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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noughties
It`s a wonder those singles could sell at all. Who bought it? A single is supposed to be a stand out track. If you didn`t know better you`d think so when seeing the cover.

But it was a stand out-track. And it was a top 10-hit in the UK, in the US, as well as in our country

For me, it was the obvious choice as a single off BAB. Memory Motel is too long. Hot Stuff could have been a single, but the verses and the vibe is a bit off to gather the masses, imo.

Actually "Hot Stuff" was released as a single in France. And it topped the charts there!

- Doxa

And Streets Of Love topped the charts in Spain

However, by «the masses» I meant «the world», or at least the biggest market.

Well, if the biggest market means USA, there it was released as a follow up to "Fool to Cry", but making only #49 in charts. However, it was labeled there as a 'promo single', whatever that means (mostly for radio plays or something).

For the great French success, I guess them performing there first time for six years had a great impact in boosting the sales. I might imagine there was a great Stones hype at the time. Or that the French people just have a great taste...

- Doxa

Wasn't Hot Stuff on the flip side of FTC in the US? No wonder it didn't really manage to "follow up" its former a-side

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa



Well, if the biggest market means USA, there it was released as a follow up to "Fool to Cry", but making only #49 in charts. However, it was labeled there as a 'promo single', whatever that means (mostly for radio plays or something).

For the great French success, I guess them performing there first time for six years had a great impact in boosting the sales. I might imagine there was a great Stones hype at the time. Or that the French people just have a great taste...

- Doxa

Wasn't Hot Stuff on the flip side of FTC in the US? No wonder it didn't really manage to "follow up" its former a-side

Indeed it was. Had to check this out. The only 'proper' single was "Fool To Cry"/"Hot Stuff" (relaesed 8 April). But then there was three promotional singles for both sides: First it was relaesed "Fool To Cry"/"Fool To Cry" (8 April). Then later in June: "Hot Stuff"/"Hot Stuff" and "Hot Stuff [Special Edited Short Version]/"Hot Stuff [Long Version] - I wonder if these two are the same. Collector's stuff...

It must be the radio plays, which took "Hot Stuff" somehow into charts in USA.

- Doxa

It’s not bad, I like the synth and piano most. Musically it’s in the same vein as some of the Goats and IORR ballads with the swirly modulation effect.

I just listened on my phone so I can’t really tell, but which guitar is Wayne Perkins? Sounds like Richards playing the busy, angular runs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-11 17:50 by TravelinMan.

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TravelinMan
It’s not bad, I like the synth and piano most. Musically it’s in the same vein as some of the Goats and IORR ballads with the swirly modulation effect.

I just listened on my phone so I can’t really tell, but which guitar is Wayne Perkins? Sounds like Richards playing the busy, angular runs.

The slide guitar.

Funny, I don't recall hearing Fool to Cry on the radio at all in the same way I constantly heard previous lead off singles It's Only Rock'n'Roll and Angie, and subsequent lead off singles Miss You and even the crappy Emotional Rescue from their respective albums, so am surprised to read it was a #1. In fact, I don't even remember Black and Blue being released unlike most every other Stones album of the '70's from GHS and beyond. I do vaguely recall hearing Hot Stuff on the radio on occasion, but nothing else about that album makes me reminisce specifically about 1976 like other Stones albums have become time capsules of a specific year. I must have bought it around the time of Some Girls I guess, and I;ve always liked Hand of Fate, Memory Motel, Crazy Mama, and to a lesser extent Melody, but for the most part the album was somewhat of a dud imo. I think in '76 there was a general feeling amongst people in my age group (13-18) that the Stones had crossed into the land of the old folks with Black and Blue - sort of out of touch, over the hill, and out to pasture, and other rock bands such as Led Zeppelin were much more highly regarded. In contrast, when Some Girls was released a couple of years later, the entire area of Southern California where I live (and probably just about everywhere else) erupted in to Stones madness - you couldn't escape them if you tried! That entire album became the soundtrack for the summer of '78, whereas Black and Blue became a distant/unpleasant memory. I still like a few tunes from that album,
but Fool to Cry definitely isn't one of them, and a good chance it never will be, though it's certainly not their worst.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-11 18:59 by Hairball.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa



Well, if the biggest market means USA, there it was released as a follow up to "Fool to Cry", but making only #49 in charts. However, it was labeled there as a 'promo single', whatever that means (mostly for radio plays or something).

For the great French success, I guess them performing there first time for six years had a great impact in boosting the sales. I might imagine there was a great Stones hype at the time. Or that the French people just have a great taste...

- Doxa

Wasn't Hot Stuff on the flip side of FTC in the US? No wonder it didn't really manage to "follow up" its former a-side

Indeed it was. Had to check this out. The only 'proper' single was "Fool To Cry"/"Hot Stuff" (relaesed 8 April). But then there was three promotional singles for both sides: First it was relaesed "Fool To Cry"/"Fool To Cry" (8 April). Then later in June: "Hot Stuff"/"Hot Stuff" and "Hot Stuff [Special Edited Short Version]/"Hot Stuff [Long Version] - I wonder if these two are the same. Collector's stuff...

It must be the radio plays, which took "Hot Stuff" somehow into charts in USA.

- Doxa

A promo single is just for radio, it's not a charting seller, just a charting song based on radio play, usually with an edit version and the LP version.

Italian 7" ..........



ROCKMAN

I love this song. Great Stones ballad

Rod

This song (and the Black and Blue album) is when I first became a Stones fan(atic). Still love it.

I'm totally OK with this song. Probably not my most loved one but it has its charm, nice melody and great lyrics. It's definitely on my playlist and yes, I love the vocals. There's nothing embarrasing about this song.

As Mick said in one of his old interviews about this song: 'What, you never expected me to write a song about my daughter?'

So that's a nice one, showing something different.

On the Live in Paris 1976 recording there's a great KR guitar solo (actually two great solos) on "Fool to Cry."

Rolling Stones Live From Paris - 1976 -"Fool to Cry"

One of those songs that always elude you whenever you are at a Stones gig, umpteen times, for ages...that’s FTC for me LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 06:04 by RisingStone.

Terrific ballad. It has Bee Gees vibes.

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MadMax

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treaclefingers

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MileHigh

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Hairball
It's an embarrassing song to the Stones legacy.

I love the guitars though, and the groove by Charlie and Bill really gets going strong midway.

But it's Micks vocals that ruin it for me . They are silly and contrived, wanting to sound like the singer from KC and the Sunshine band.

KC and the Sunshine Band? They sang "That's the Way I Like It", " Shake Your Booty", "I'm Your Boogie Man", "Keep It Comin' Love", and "Get Down Tonight."

None of those songs are as introspective or melancholy as "Fool to Cry." KC and the Sunshine Band was a feel-good dance band. "Fool to Cry" is soulful, the ruminations of a hard-working man with a young daughter who finds solace in the arms of a woman on the poor side of town. The song dances on the edge of tragedy. You can feel the man's sorrow and his regret for what might have been, not to mention his love for his little daughter. No way could KC and the Sunshine band put all that in a song. No way!

What about KC's "Please don't Go" ???

Exactly exactly. "Please Don't Go" blows "Fool to Cry" out of the water.

yeah, hate to say it but I love Please Don't Go...over Fool to Cry.

It's the other way around, Stones inspired KC as this song was released in 1979, Black And Blue was released in april 1976.

Absolutely correct. Fool to Cry predates KC by three years. Top 40 radio generally still ruled when Fool was released and there was nothing like it on the charts. That was indeed one of the criticisms of the song when it was released - doesn't sound like anything else.

As far as the KC comparison, other than the vocals, I don't see much similarity. The percussion on the KC is simplistic compared to Charlie's drumming. The guitar work on Fool, especially on the "Long Guitar Version" from "Black and Blue Demos" is exceptional. Fool is a soulful blues track. The KC song is nondescript lightweight late 70's Top 40 club music. OK, if you like it, but nothing in it particularly stands out IMHO.

Duck

Like noted here, I don't think "Fool To Cry" was that obvious or 'safe' choice for a single at the time. But then again, one could ask what would have been - "Hot Stuff" was mentioned, but that would have been a rather risky choice as well. I don't think basic rockers "Hand of Fate" or "Crazy Mama" have had a hit potential in them. And yeah, "Memory Motel" was way too long, uneditable to not lost its charm, and naturally fated to be a deep album gem.

However, that they chose "Fool To Cry" might have had a pretty calculated thinking behind, based on experience. They had a huge hit in another slow ballad "Angie", after which, despite a heavy promotion, a more traditional rocker "It's Only Rock'n'Roll" didn't do that well in charts (#16 US, #10 UK) - probably the lowest chart performance for any profilic new Stones single since their early days. Surely, "Fool To Cry" didn't turn to be any smash hit, but it did slightly better (#10 US, #6 UK).

But I think having that slow, reflective song on radio waves and in where Mick sings about being a daddy and having a daughter on his knees et all didn't do much good for the danger of the Stones being considered as old farts and hasbeens... Mick pretty quickly realized that growing up gracefully and showing mature reflection wasn't his cup of tea...

That was then, but what about now, 44 years later?

Now in retrospect one could say that BLACK AND BLUE was about the first Stones album that didn't produce any true 'evergreen', a real classic, big song by their standards. By contrast, "It's Only Rock'n'Roll", despite its weak chart performance, turned out to be a kind of anthem song for them in the long run and, as we have seen, has a cemented place among 'war horses'. "Fool To Cry", despite its nice chartings, was a pretty flavor of the month kind of thing - as would be "Emotional Rescue", "Undercover of The Night" and every single since then (although still for years making top ten). It was a forerunner for that kind of single and song material, by which the Stones showed being mortals like anyone else - immortal rock gods for sure still, but making pretty mortal and soon forgettable songs (remember from where they were coming from - why they were non-disputed rock gods in the first place).

However, nowadays, after having witnessed a true artistic downhill or stagnation (starting in the 80's), BLACK AND BLUE, like any pre-UNDERCOVER album, contains a kind of classical material, and can be seen as the band still in a creative mood, going somewhere. Things like "Fool To Cry", "Memory Motel" and "Hot Stuff" are not just great songs, but novel things they had done not earlier (and actually not much later). It is doubtful if they ever touched such artist levels again in their post-TATTOO YOU days. And even if such standard rockers as "Hand of Fate" and "Crazy Mama" are not that inspired compared to their previous rockers, they have still a spark or even a point in them the post-TATTOO YOU, me thinks, 'by-the-numbers' rockers tend to lack. If there is anything good about post-TATTOO YOU stuff is that it at least gives a point of comparison by which one can understand how damn special, creative and great they were still back in the 70's, during the golden age of rock.

Altogether, I think the (in)famous mid-70's downhill period - between the heights of EXILE and SOME GIRLS - has aged very well. In their own context - compared to their previous masterpieces or SOME GIRLS and to the musical world at the time - I think their bad reputation is justified. But out of that context - of which no one needs to give a shit any longer - we can see that the Stones were doing incredibly great music 'at their worst'. I can easily see that the recent recognition and re-evaluation of GOATS HEAD SOUP can continue to the next albums as well. Surely none of these largely forgotten gems would gain such an immortal status as their peak songs and albums, but they will nicely enrich and deepen their legacy and musical story. (I saw this to a degree happened, even without a heavily promoted deluxe edition, earlier to SATANIC MAJESTIES, which traditionally has been the most mocked album by any big rock act ever.)

I think "Fool To Cry" is a great example of that.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 12:03 by Doxa.

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Doxa
I can easily see that the recent recognition and re-evaluation of GOATS HEAD SOUP can continue to the next albums as well.

-Hmm... It`s Only Rock and Roll, yes, but Black and Blue? I`d say the "Stones by numbers" years contain better albums than this shallow collection of songs. "Melody" is good.

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peoplewitheyes
Certainly it was a braver choice of single than, say, Crazy Mama or Hand of Fate. Solid rockers, but a little formulaic, even then.

I agree with that. Both tracks seem pretty pedestrian to me, Hand of Fate being the better of the two. When I bought the album in '76, I gravitated to Melody, Memory Motel and Fool to Cry, in that order. I never felt it was a bad album, but not one of their best.

I did later come to appreciate Hot Stuff after "Love You Live" came out. That live version is some of Ronnie's better work and made me go back and revisit the studio recording.

Duck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 17:06 by HTD.

Japanese 7" .....



ROCKMAN

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noughties

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Doxa
I can easily see that the recent recognition and re-evaluation of GOATS HEAD SOUP can continue to the next albums as well.

-Hmm... It`s Only Rock and Roll, yes, but Black and Blue? I`d say the "Stones by numbers" years contain better albums than this shallow collection of songs. "Melody" is good.

I bet (OK, actually it's a giant element of hope) that there's an element of surprise in the vaults if BLACK AND BLUE gets some kind of a revamp ala GOATS HEAD SOUP because:

Slave
Worried About You


The same could be said about EMOTIONAL RESCUE because of:
Hang Fire
Little T&A
Neighbours
Heaven
No Use In Crying
Think I'm Going Mad

Way back there somewhere:

>Worth checking out the early version of Fool To Cry with Mick on electric piano and Nicky Hopkins also on piano.


As usual, spot on. Just pulled out my copy of Static In the Attic and darn if I had not previously skipped right over this one. It is a fine rendition, to my ears way superior to the released version, but of course Micks vocals are mostly background, guide vocals. Sounds great like this, this is the kind of quality outtakes they could be putting out.

Thanks again Rockman for the rock solid recommendation

jb

I seem to recall a video of the band in a studio in 76 (not a live show) playing this track, with Billy and Jags on keyboards...

Looking on youtube I can't seem to find it. Am I just imagining this?

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peoplewitheyes
I seem to recall a video of the band in a studio in 76 (not a live show) playing this track, with Billy and Jags on keyboards...

Looking on youtube I can't seem to find it. Am I just imagining this?

Isn't that the official promo video?

but I could have sworn it was Billy P on keys (not Stu)

Guess I was trippin'