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crumbling_mice

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treaclefingers

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crumbling_mice
Bill Wyman is becoming tiresome with all his bleating of late. He got into the band purely on the strength of having a decent amp. They kept him in the band throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's...There were many better bass players they could have used, but they stuck with Bill - he was by then a Stone and the loyalty was there. It was his choice to walk away and if I remember correctly at the time he said in more than one interviews he had had enough of the band, the touring, the lack of recognisation for his song writing abilities. He moved on, set up his own relatively succesful band and, cough...became a metal detector of some noteriety!

Come 2012 and they are celebrating their 50 years and along with Taylor - who also walked away from them, they invite him to be a part of the party and he accepts. He plays on a couple of songs at some of the gigs as does Taylor. Now, if he wanted a bigger role in all this surely he should have had it clarified before he turned up for the first gig exactly what the deal was. I mean, if any one should know how the Glimmer Twins operate, it's Bill. It's no good turning up, getting a real buzz out of it and then saying well, I want more but they won't let me!

Bill should be glad they invited him, welcomed him, let him back into the greatest rock n roll band on the planet. If his attitude was a bit better maybe Jagger would have opened the door a little wider. TO me it all smacks of Wyman being a little ungrateful.

Wyman wasn't a little anything Newman!

'newman?' YOu've lost me there!

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Aquamarine
This has probably been mentioned elsewhere, but is he scheduled to play with them at Glasto, since he'll be there anyway with the Rhythm Kings?

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stonehearted

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Aquamarine
This has probably been mentioned elsewhere, but is he scheduled to play with them at Glasto, since he'll be there anyway with the Rhythm Kings?

No, he isn't. The Rhythm Kings are playing the day before The Stones. So if Bill can't be bothered to make a guest appearance at Glasto, then we'll know for sure that it wasn't really the touring that was the issue.

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crumbling_mice
There were many better bass players they could have used, but they stuck with Bill...

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gotdablouse

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stonehearted

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Aquamarine
This has probably been mentioned elsewhere, but is he scheduled to play with them at Glasto, since he'll be there anyway with the Rhythm Kings?

No, he isn't. The Rhythm Kings are playing the day before The Stones. So if Bill can't be bothered to make a guest appearance at Glasto, then we'll know for sure that it wasn't really the touring that was the issue.

Actually he said in an interview that if they asked him to play with them at Glasto he would tell them to p**$*$ off...being his usual foul mouthed whiny self!

To think that Charlie and Mick paid him a visit yet again in early 1993 to make sure he hadn't changed his mind about quitting the band...

Keith did say at some point last year that "Bill and Darryl can decide how they want to share the songs", so that certainly implied that there would be more than two songs for Bill, but then Keith probably said that without really thinking about the implications, such as some minimal rehearsal time, and then forgot about it and put it on account of "sh$t happens"! As was pointed out, Bill should know how the Glimmer Twins operate, i.e. that they make things up as they go along and wing it so they probably figured that if Bill was not being proactive they'd just give him a couple of tunes and that would be fine.

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24FPS
Okay, let's assume the Stones brought Bill back, who quit them, just to humiliate him, because he quit them. That's the ultimate get back at your old girlfriend fantasy, but I don't think that's the way it went down. It doesn't sound like they talked clearly about what Bill was going to be doing. So Bill is shocked when he shows up and he only gets two numbers and no rehearsal/soundcheck. He said later that he had expected more, and yet there's no mention of what EXACTLY he was supposed to do. It sounds like Bill left it up to them, and they treated him like a special guest, which is what he was.

If there was supposed to be more, then Bill should have negotiated for more. As much as I like Bill, I'm beginning to think he's getting dotty and over- emotional. That's why I think Mick may be honestly shocked about Bill being miffed. They obviously don't communicate. This could all be worked out by a couple phone calls. I think it's ridiculous to say that Darryl Jones is the impediment to Bill either working with them on some European dates, or in the studio. They seem to brush aside Darryl in the studio. And from the sad results when he does play, he either doesn't have much to offer their sound, or he just plays exactly what they tell him to do. For god's sake, Mick played bass on a song on ABB.

Then again, Bill may just have it all right. He played on almost all of their songs that matter. His daughters got to see him up there with the group that made their father famous. Maybe the Stones are beyond Bill helping. They're a nostalgia act now, the very best. But the days of being artists are decades in the past. As much as Bill seems harsh when he says things, those things often turn out to be uncomfortably true. Having Bill back with the group for the O2 shows kind of ended my desire for him to be back. They didn't appreciate him then, and they don't appreciate him now. Just pick up the phone, Mick. But you don't want to, do you?

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treaclefingers
It may also be that he is simply playing 'the victim' in order to make Mick and Keith look bad.

He's closing in on his 80s...having to fly to North America and then zip around the continent, maybe this was his whiny way out.

Hi 'expectation' on having to be 'asked' to do play or tour is slightly passive-aggressive. Why couldn't HE have asked if he really wanted this?

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latebloomer

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treaclefingers
It may also be that he is simply playing 'the victim' in order to make Mick and Keith look bad.

He's closing in on his 80s...having to fly to North America and then zip around the continent, maybe this was his whiny way out.

Hi 'expectation' on having to be 'asked' to do play or tour is slightly passive-aggressive. Why couldn't HE have asked if he really wanted this?

I don't think he was playing the victim consciously, but I do agree with you that he should have been proactive in getting what he wants. Bill knows how these guys operate - the vagueness, the last minute decisions, the lack of communication, coupled with the intense, nervous focus on rehearsals. To me, all that adds up to not thinking about Bill's true role until the last minute. Keith may have had good intentions, wanting to welcome Bill back, mend fences, but all that was out of his mind once they all got together to rehearse. Then when it did come time to include Bill, it was...oh yeah, Bill - what should we do with him? Well, he's a special guest, we'll give him a few songs. I don't think there was anything mean spirited in their decision, more very little thought, certainly they weren't thinking about what Bill may have wanted. That's why Bill should have spoken up, or talked to them afterwards and said, hey, that was a lot of fun, but I'd like to do more if you want me to tour with you. Instead, he responds in the press, who naturally ask him about it. Bill probably needed a good PR person to get him through this whole thing.

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More Hot Rocks
Bill plays the victim very well.

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Turning To Gold
The elephant in the room that no one is talking about is very obviously the money...if Bill is going to do more than 2 songs, or if Bill is going to tour the US, he is going to need to be PAID as a member of the band. And he has a pretty convincing argument as a founding member, to be entitled to a considerable share, and $100 million split five ways is a lot less per person than $100 million split 4 ways. Even if he is just brought back as a sideman, and paid a stipend per each gig, he is still costing more than Daryll Jones, whose services they are also already paying for. Think of it like a businessman -- when Bill is up there on stage, they are still paying Daryll Jones to do nothing, except sit around backstage and to a businessman like Mick, that's not good business sense except for as a song or two here or there. You don't pay the help to sit around and do nothing. And also to a businessman like Bill, it makes no sense to go travelling all over the country and playing, while not getting any worthwhile money.

The Stones have proven in the past it's economically worth the money of keeping on an extra guitar player t(Blondie Chaplin) to add to the sound on some songs, but two bass players, both on salary? Not going to happen.