Tell Me :
Talk
No problem. Lets just enjoy the moment.
Was she doing some kind of ironic comedy sketch here?
edit:
-----
The Ironic Lady.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-09 11:00 by GravityBoy.
Great post beepee2 :-)
Even her own ministers couldent argue with her, so what chance as the normal bloke got.
Pathetic statement.
When a bully dies the victims enjoy some sort of victory too.
On Pinochet, your enemy's enemy is sometimes your friend (of convenience).
A short history lesson -
When the Falklands was invaded, our great friends in France and America sat on their hands and said nothing could be done. Hell, the French were even selling weapons to the Argentinian dictatorship, and the Americans were thinking of all those juicy markets in S America and didn't want to rock the boat (at first, to be fair).
And of course the defeatists in Britain said we should give up.
Pinochet went out on a limb an supported the RAF, our air force, and provided intelligence to help Britain's chances of reversing the invasion, which is what happened.
Now, I don't condone anything else at all he did or may have done, and in fact Pinochet probably had his own selfish reasons for helping us out (the Argentinian's crackpot leader Galtieri had already said publicly that next up was an Argentinian invasion of the disputed Beagle Islands, owned by Chile under treaty in the 1800s but conveniently now disputed by Buenos Aires).
And so Thatcher's subsequent 'gratitude' or 'loyalty' to Pinochet can clearly be seen as being her way of saying that she never forgot who actually came to help when Britain needed it.
The fact that she stuck to this in the face of much opprobrium instead of hopping the other side of the fence (the easy option) is even more remarkable. Agree or not, it speaks volumes for values and courage.
It may not be pretty but it is understandable.
Always take the weather with you...
"There is no such thing as society" - a much misunderstood and selective excerpt from what she actually said and meant.
See below for the actual comment, which can clearly be understood to mean that there is no separate thing in the country or world called 'society' - rather there is only you and me, our family and friends and colleagues and neighbours etc. That's the correct way to understand the quote.
Anyway, here is the actual quote:
"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour."
I think most people will not disagree with it.
That's the Princess Diana Elton thing.
That person has taken it and used it out of context for Margaret Thatcher.
Its rock n roll thread - and good @#$%& riddance to her,
and to make it even more about music, heres The Exploited with their farewell song
Wow, I didn't know England has that many Nobel prices in waiting !
Can you get Guy Fawkes night banned as well while you're about it.
Or better yet leave it open- then the far left fringe element in this forum gets exposed for what they really are. I wonder if some of these crazy posters would show their posts to their family members and what their family members would think of them? Or better yet make a print out of your posts and take them to your local psychiatrist and see how long it takes for him to have you locked up lol.
It's really about decency which unfortunately for whatever reason some people
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: April 9, 2013 09:40
Probably some of the things she did needed doing by someone. But what made the anger and resentment was the sheer uncaring ruthlessness with which she did them, and her utter contempt and unconcern for the victims of her policies - whole industries and communities as well as individuals. Perhaps if you are not British you can think of her as the CEO who made Great Britain plc a profitable company for its shareholders, at the price of throwing many of its workers on the scrapheap - it would be unreasonable to expect the inhabitants of the resulting ghost towns to remember her with affection. Grudging respect for a tough and merciless enemy, perhaps. The kind of person who deals with a diseased tree by burning down the whole forest it stood in.
I don't rejoice in anyone's death. But I was very glad when she was finally ousted from power.
I don't rejoice in anyone's death. But I was very glad when she was finally ousted from power.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
odean73
()
Date: April 9, 2013 09:56
Quote
GravityBoy
Sorry about the wrong quote!!
No problem. Lets just enjoy the moment.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
beepee2
()
Date: April 9, 2013 10:36
Actually, I think i understand what's happening.
When real characters die, all the weak who would have been ridiculed in an argument with her, finally enjoy some sort of victory.... the worms eating the lion.
When real characters die, all the weak who would have been ridiculed in an argument with her, finally enjoy some sort of victory.... the worms eating the lion.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: April 9, 2013 10:59
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Nuff said!
Was she doing some kind of ironic comedy sketch here?
edit:
-----
The Ironic Lady.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-09 11:00 by GravityBoy.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
nanker phelge
()
Date: April 9, 2013 11:50
Quote
beepee2
Actually, I think i understand what's happening.
When real characters die, all the weak who would have been ridiculed in an argument with her, finally enjoy some sort of victory.... the worms eating the lion.
Great post beepee2 :-)
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
odean73
()
Date: April 9, 2013 12:02
Quote
beepee2
Actually, I think i understand what's happening.
When real characters die, all the weak who would have been ridiculed in an argument with her, finally enjoy some sort of victory.... the worms eating the lion.
Even her own ministers couldent argue with her, so what chance as the normal bloke got.
Pathetic statement.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
monctonrambler
()
Date: April 9, 2013 12:31
Elton came out of one closet in 1990, but turns out he's also a Tory!
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
Braincapers
()
Date: April 9, 2013 13:07
Quote
odean73Quote
beepee2
Actually, I think i understand what's happening.
When real characters die, all the weak who would have been ridiculed in an argument with her, finally enjoy some sort of victory.... the worms eating the lion.
Even her own ministers couldent argue with her, so what chance as the normal bloke got.
Pathetic statement.
When a bully dies the victims enjoy some sort of victory too.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: April 9, 2013 14:37
Sorry to spoil the party, but without Thatcher UK would have gone the greek way.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
tomcat2006
()
Date: April 9, 2013 14:46
Quote
seitan
To speak no ill of the dead could well be tampering with history....
It's interesting how many remember Thatchers support to War criminal and dictator of Chile. I wonder how many recall how Thatcher said that Pinochet was a fine example of democracy, yeah right....By the time of his death, Pinochet had been implicated in over 300 criminal charges for numerous human rights crimes,(including the Caravan of Death case, Carlos Prats's assassination, Operation Condor, Operation Colombo, Villa Grimaldi case, Carmelo Soria case, Calle Conferencia case, Antonio Llidó case, Eugenio Berrios case, ) tax evasion and
other crimes...but I guess we can wipe away the history and look the other way.
On Pinochet, your enemy's enemy is sometimes your friend (of convenience).
A short history lesson -
When the Falklands was invaded, our great friends in France and America sat on their hands and said nothing could be done. Hell, the French were even selling weapons to the Argentinian dictatorship, and the Americans were thinking of all those juicy markets in S America and didn't want to rock the boat (at first, to be fair).
And of course the defeatists in Britain said we should give up.
Pinochet went out on a limb an supported the RAF, our air force, and provided intelligence to help Britain's chances of reversing the invasion, which is what happened.
Now, I don't condone anything else at all he did or may have done, and in fact Pinochet probably had his own selfish reasons for helping us out (the Argentinian's crackpot leader Galtieri had already said publicly that next up was an Argentinian invasion of the disputed Beagle Islands, owned by Chile under treaty in the 1800s but conveniently now disputed by Buenos Aires).
And so Thatcher's subsequent 'gratitude' or 'loyalty' to Pinochet can clearly be seen as being her way of saying that she never forgot who actually came to help when Britain needed it.
The fact that she stuck to this in the face of much opprobrium instead of hopping the other side of the fence (the easy option) is even more remarkable. Agree or not, it speaks volumes for values and courage.
It may not be pretty but it is understandable.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: April 9, 2013 14:49
Quote
Bärs
Sorry to spoil the party, but without Thatcher UK would have gone the greek way.
Always take the weather with you...
Re: OT: RIP Margaret Thatcher
Posted by:
tomcat2006
()
Date: April 9, 2013 14:50
Quote
ash
I'm not glad she's dead so to speak but...
"there is no society" and "the market will provide" are two of the dumbest things i have heard from a politician.
What's more infuriating is that it reminds me that if labour and the unions hadn't messed up this country so badly in the 70s then we probably wouldn't have suffered her reign.
and here we are again, labour spent their 3 terms messing everything up, destroying the economy and here are thatcher's children making cut backs from the disabled and poor while the people responsible (previously in power and otherwise) get away scot free.
Also doesn't thatch's arms dealing, coup embracing son get to be baroness now ? god it makes me puke more than ob la di bla da.
Anyway, gotta go. Just got a party invite.
"There is no such thing as society" - a much misunderstood and selective excerpt from what she actually said and meant.
See below for the actual comment, which can clearly be understood to mean that there is no separate thing in the country or world called 'society' - rather there is only you and me, our family and friends and colleagues and neighbours etc. That's the correct way to understand the quote.
Anyway, here is the actual quote:
"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour."
I think most people will not disagree with it.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
Father Ted
()
Date: April 9, 2013 15:00
While Thatcher began what were quite modest economic reforms like privatising BT, she went too far and sold all the family silver. Our water and energy infrastructure is largely foreign owned, which is a national disgrace. Privatising our electricity generation and supply just made private cartels replace a public monopoly. Unfortunately her legacy must include the transformation of the British into a nation of lowest bidder mercenaries.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: April 9, 2013 15:07
Quote
monctonrambler
Elton came out of one closet in 1990, but turns out he's also a Tory!
That's the Princess Diana Elton thing.
That person has taken it and used it out of context for Margaret Thatcher.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: April 9, 2013 15:27
M Thatcher:
I am rather surprised to see such a topic on this board, and, without hindrance, spreading over seven pages in just one day.
Is this subject matter a political one or is it rock n roll?
IORR Forum Policy
Political and religious posts are not accepted.
Where are the moderators?
I am rather surprised to see such a topic on this board, and, without hindrance, spreading over seven pages in just one day.
Is this subject matter a political one or is it rock n roll?
IORR Forum Policy
Political and religious posts are not accepted.
Where are the moderators?
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
seitan
()
Date: April 9, 2013 16:03
Quote
dead.flowers
M Thatcher:
I am rather surprised to see such a topic on this board, and, without hindrance, spreading over seven pages in just one day.
Is this subject matter a political one or is it rock n roll?
IORR Forum Policy
Political and religious posts are not accepted.
Where are the moderators?
Its rock n roll thread - and good @#$%& riddance to her,
and to make it even more about music, heres The Exploited with their farewell song
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
tomcat2006
()
Date: April 9, 2013 16:04
There's been a 70s-style power cut and the moderators are on strike!
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
sjs12
()
Date: April 9, 2013 16:20
It's easy to look on from afar and say - oh well the UK needed to be modernised. It is true, it did.
What people object to is the ruthless way she did it whith people starving or freezing to death as a result. I have family in the North and they were literally starving - living on handouts like in a 3rd world country. Searching through bins to see if anyone had thrown out food. OAPs died freezing in their unheated homes and without enough food to live on. That was living in Thatcher's Britain for you if you happened to be poor.
I'm not saying it's necessarily right to say certain things about her death, but I can understand why people do.
What people object to is the ruthless way she did it whith people starving or freezing to death as a result. I have family in the North and they were literally starving - living on handouts like in a 3rd world country. Searching through bins to see if anyone had thrown out food. OAPs died freezing in their unheated homes and without enough food to live on. That was living in Thatcher's Britain for you if you happened to be poor.
I'm not saying it's necessarily right to say certain things about her death, but I can understand why people do.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
beepee2
()
Date: April 9, 2013 16:23
Quote
seitan
heres The Exploited with their farewell song
Wow, I didn't know England has that many Nobel prices in waiting !
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 9, 2013 16:28
Quote
Bärs
Sorry to spoil the party, but without Thatcher UK would have gone the greek way.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
Adrian-L
()
Date: April 9, 2013 16:31
BV -
Please close this thread.
Individuals revelling & celebrating in a fellow human's passing, frankly, beggars belief.
Please close this thread.
Individuals revelling & celebrating in a fellow human's passing, frankly, beggars belief.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: April 9, 2013 17:13
I don't think anyone's really celebrating the demise of a probably, frightened, but definitely frail, old lady who in the end didn't know what day it was, (besides anything there would be no point in that - like laughing at an empty shell once the snail had left)....
No.....it's actually a lot deeper than that, Thatcher and her henchmen traumatised a significant percentage of the British population, and they and their environs have never recovered.
She was no rose gardener, the word prune was not in her dictionary, just chop it off at the base. I remember at the time, telling my mother, "these people are mentally, the types who chop down all the trees because the leaves make a mess in the autumn".
Large communities that grew up because there was coal to be dug were suddenly told "No more digging - no more money". The concept of "weaning off" was not in the vocabulary either.......
In parts of Britain it was getting like the US in the 30's depression. Some posters have mentioned people starving, it's true. Friends of mine were forced go up on the mountains to rustle some sheep, they were scraping through the coal slag heaps to find a few bits of coal whereas they'd been churning it out by the ton weeks before.........
No, she et al were very vicious, cruel and crude people ............and it's that memory that people are rejoicing at the demise of...........
If any of the denegrators of the victims of Thatcher really had seen the levels that really honest hard working people were pushed down to they perhaps might not be so swift to condemn.
The idea that Britain would have gone like Greece is a load of bollocks.......there's always a medium path if the will is there to find it. imo, as the Government did have the power, I suggest it was their responsibilty to find it.
But no, and what's the legacy, she "opened up the markets" and the net result? Rip-off Britain, that's what, with no heart to speak of (for now at least)
King Arthur (of course of legend) was reputed to have said, "the greatness of a nation lies in the welfare of it's humblest peasant". On that basis who ever says she made Britain great again is in my opinion a moron. She pushed the poor down then and it's happening again today. (including really sick people being told to find work or live on £70 per week.)
After 150 years of struggle by the workers for better standards all you hear about here now is how standards are sliding fast back to where the old and sick are literally going without food and heat en masse, courtesy of her protoge David Cameron.
PS....these threads usually die as fast as their subjects......so...
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-09 17:18 by EddieByword.
No.....it's actually a lot deeper than that, Thatcher and her henchmen traumatised a significant percentage of the British population, and they and their environs have never recovered.
She was no rose gardener, the word prune was not in her dictionary, just chop it off at the base. I remember at the time, telling my mother, "these people are mentally, the types who chop down all the trees because the leaves make a mess in the autumn".
Large communities that grew up because there was coal to be dug were suddenly told "No more digging - no more money". The concept of "weaning off" was not in the vocabulary either.......
In parts of Britain it was getting like the US in the 30's depression. Some posters have mentioned people starving, it's true. Friends of mine were forced go up on the mountains to rustle some sheep, they were scraping through the coal slag heaps to find a few bits of coal whereas they'd been churning it out by the ton weeks before.........
No, she et al were very vicious, cruel and crude people ............and it's that memory that people are rejoicing at the demise of...........
If any of the denegrators of the victims of Thatcher really had seen the levels that really honest hard working people were pushed down to they perhaps might not be so swift to condemn.
The idea that Britain would have gone like Greece is a load of bollocks.......there's always a medium path if the will is there to find it. imo, as the Government did have the power, I suggest it was their responsibilty to find it.
But no, and what's the legacy, she "opened up the markets" and the net result? Rip-off Britain, that's what, with no heart to speak of (for now at least)
King Arthur (of course of legend) was reputed to have said, "the greatness of a nation lies in the welfare of it's humblest peasant". On that basis who ever says she made Britain great again is in my opinion a moron. She pushed the poor down then and it's happening again today. (including really sick people being told to find work or live on £70 per week.)
After 150 years of struggle by the workers for better standards all you hear about here now is how standards are sliding fast back to where the old and sick are literally going without food and heat en masse, courtesy of her protoge David Cameron.
PS....these threads usually die as fast as their subjects......so...
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-09 17:18 by EddieByword.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
windmelody
()
Date: April 9, 2013 18:02
EddieByword, I did not know that those years were that terrible in Britain, this thread is an occasion to get to know this,no need to call to close it down.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
nanker phelge
()
Date: April 9, 2013 18:35
Quote
Adrian-L
BV -
Please close this thread.
Individuals revelling & celebrating in a fellow human's passing, frankly, beggars belief.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: April 9, 2013 18:44
Quote
nanker phelgeQuote
Adrian-L
BV -
Please close this thread.
Individuals revelling & celebrating in a fellow human's passing, frankly, beggars belief.
Can you get Guy Fawkes night banned as well while you're about it.
Re: O T Thatchers Dead
Posted by:
FrankM
()
Date: April 9, 2013 19:01
Quote
Adrian-L
BV -
Please close this thread.
Individuals revelling & celebrating in a fellow human's passing, frankly, beggars belief.
Or better yet leave it open- then the far left fringe element in this forum gets exposed for what they really are. I wonder if some of these crazy posters would show their posts to their family members and what their family members would think of them? Or better yet make a print out of your posts and take them to your local psychiatrist and see how long it takes for him to have you locked up lol.
It's really about decency which unfortunately for whatever reason some people
This Thread has been closed
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