I'm growing up & accepting capitalism...only kids would accept anthing but capitalism. Sorry, I forgot America & our capitalistic empire are the Gods of the world...

...and as far as Europe is concerned, whatever happened to "reaching out to the people by playing small arenas" as with the Elevation tour?

I think money got in the way.

A little of history...
Article from May 30, 2002:

By Edna Gundersen, USA TODAY

The Rolling Stones, historically the box office champ each year they tour, are especially noteworthy now. Their adventurous strategy of tailoring different productions and set lists for stadiums, arenas and theaters (often booking all three venues in one city) may not prove as lucrative as past outings, but it's no risk, either.

The band has sold more than 500,000 tickets (98% of those offered) so far and could gross $200 million by the end of the year. Though the Stones are expected to be the year's top draw, their tickets ($50-$350) are reasonable compared to top prices for fellow icons The Who and The Eagles. High prices for vintage bands have been on the rise for years.

Promoters are tinkering with price structures in hopes of luring casual listeners to less stellar attractions. Clear Channel, for instance, is offering a $150 "grass pass," good for 10 lawn tickets to its amphitheater shows.

Although I go to rock concerts - none of these acts are worth anything they charge.

After all they are just a rock and/or pop act.

Prob is that too many of us that are offspring of the baby boomers have monay to blow on such things.

The real value of any concert I know is a personal thing, but when you're approaching the hundred dollar mark and beyond, even though I pay it, I don't think anyone's worth it.
Guess I'm just an idiot.



kyle m

Have you ever lent somebody $20 and never seen them again? It was probably worth it.

Hey, somebody's got to pay for Mistress Bono's sunglass addiction. He's SUCH a hypocritical, tree hugging @#$%&... reminds me of John & Yoko in the late 60s & early 70s, flying around the world in first class seats preaching stale cant to third class societal detritus. Puh!

"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone

monkey man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Although I go to rock concerts - none of these
> acts are worth anything they charge.
>
> After all they are just a rock and/or pop act.
>
> Prob is that too many of us that are offspring of
> the baby boomers have monay to blow on such
> things.
>
> The real value of any concert I know is a personal
> thing, but when you're approaching the hundred
> dollar mark and beyond, even though I pay it, I
> don't think anyone's worth it.
> Guess I'm just an idiot.
>
>


You're right (I don't mean I'm implying you're an idiot, btw)

For some strange reason people think the Stones should change the world when they sell concert tickets. When you live in USA money rules. If you have lots of money you buy a big house, expensive car, and you can afford those $400 Stones tickets in Las Vegas. Same in Europe actually, but not as extreme. If you are rich you do still normally waste your money on a big house, a nice boat or something, plus a VIP box at the venue the Stones play in. This is not China folks. Or Cuba or Albania. It is the market value that is ruling. I love the prices the Stones have in Spain, it is a very social way at half price vs. rest of Europe. But somebody have to pay the difference... I don't have a big house or a big boat, and I don't have a vip box at Spektrum (would hate it), but I would rather get my tickets from the Stones than from scalpers.

Not everyone in those "rich" countries happens to be loaded, though, Bjornulf. Thats the point.

Other major acts DONT charge $400 a ticket in the same market as the Stones do. Doing so isnt being ruled by 'market value'. Its sheer greed, pure and simple. If the average ticket was even $100 (still expensive enough to watch a show through binoculars) they'd still make a huge profit.

Still, if you think ticket prices are high, then they'll get even worse if ticketmaster go ahead with their plan to auction off the best seats at gigs. Their strategy is based upon the same principle that every ticket has a "market price" as such, and they'd rather the fat profit went into their own pockets than to the growing army of scalpers on e-bay.

Expect it to be introduced at the same time as we start printing our own bar-coded tickets.

By the way, this isn't a joke. I wish it were.

I have a feeling that Europeans just don't understand what we are talking about. How is this then...since money is what matters & that is ok with some people here...from now on, the Stones will ONLY play in the US since that is where the money is. If you folks in Europe want to see em, you can come here, pay HUGE prices (at least you get a good exchange rate). As I have posted here before, when the Stones go to the rest of the world, it is like charity or welfare. Us here in the US pay the costs of the tour & everyone outside the US gets a handout. Perhaps it is simply more US foreign aid...I don't know. What I do know is that the Stones tickets cost about 11-14% of my monthly take home pay...and I make ok money. I find it amazing that people seem ok with the high prices...maybe the milk farmers can get together & charge you $100 a carton...just be sure to keep smiling when they bend you over. We all love the Stones band here...but they are bending everyone here over...some of us just are less ok with taking it. I guess now we know who will pick up the soap in the shower & who won't...if you know what I mean.

Hey sdstonesguy,
Please keep your prison stories to yourself!

Other acts are not that popular. If the Stones asked for $100 in Las Vegas then they could play forever, every night, year around, actually any city in the US every week I think. They are just too popular. Far to popular. Sone times I wish my favorite band was a real garage band nobody knew about. But without the crowd there is no joy...

Bjornulf

That's right! Some folks drop the soap on purpose!

I don't know sdstonesguy if I buy the idea that the US somehow subsidizes other markets. As I remember hearing the Euro Licks prices were comparable.

'Don’t forget, if you’re on your bike, wear white'

In Denmark lots of problems / chaos for signed up fans to get tickets - the ticket selling system is not working - fans have paid some 40 usd to buy tickets in presale..... the prices here are from 70-100 usd... sales start on monday 10 in the morning

Who is going to U2 concert....

Looking forward to it (while waiting for RS) - hope it is going to be like the Go Home concert from Slane Castle

So Kurt...do you always smile so big when taking it? You seem like that kind of guy...

sdstonesguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a feeling that Europeans just don't
> understand what we are talking about. How is this
> then...since money is what matters & that is
> ok with some people here...from now on, the Stones
> will ONLY play in the US since that is where the
> money is. If you folks in Europe want to see em,
> you can come here, pay HUGE prices (at least you
> get a good exchange rate). As I have posted here
> before, when the Stones go to the rest of the
> world, it is like charity or welfare. Us here in
> the US pay the costs of the tour & everyone
> outside the US gets a handout. Perhaps it is
> simply more US foreign aid...I don't know. What I
> do know is that the Stones tickets cost about
> 11-14% of my monthly take home pay...and I make ok
> money. I find it amazing that people seem ok with
> the high prices...maybe the milk farmers can get
> together & charge you $100 a carton...just be
> sure to keep smiling when they bend you over. We
> all love the Stones band here...but they are
> bending everyone here over...some of us just are
> less ok with taking it. I guess now we know who
> will pick up the soap in the shower & who
> won't...if you know what I mean.


you're talking nonsense, quite frankly (apart from your justifiable whinge about ticket prices).

Firstly, European prices were indeed comparable to US ones. I went to shows on both continents. Your estimate for the price of a Stones ticket compared to your take home pay wouldnt be far from my own, incidentally.

The reason why the tour didnt make a profit until it left the US is simple - the US was the first leg of the tour and if it costs xxx amount of dollars to finance an ENTIRE tour for a period of a year or so then there is a point in the tour when it finally starts to show a profit. It happens to occur in the US simply because thats where they always start the bloody tour! If they started with 50 European shows, then the same principle would follow, ie once they get past 30-40 shows or whatever it takes, it's all profit from there on. By your logic, why doesnt every major act just start their world tours with a lengthy trek across the US?


For example - U2's tour starts with around 20 arena shows in North America followed by a summer stadium tour of Europe which will probably end up being around 35 shows, before they return to North America and other markets for more arena shows.

I'd imagine the point at which their tour will show a profit will be during the European leg. In fact, I'd guess that the 1. 5 million (or more) tickets they'll probably sell in Europe alone will in itself pay for the cost of the entire world tour. That hardly means that Europe's paying for the cost of the tour for the benefit of the rest of the world, does it?




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-02-04 01:22 by Gazza.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other acts are not that popular. If the Stones
> asked for $100 in Las Vegas then they could play
> forever, every night, year around, actually any
> city in the US every week I think. They are just
> too popular. Far to popular. Sone times I wish my
> favorite band was a real garage band nobody knew
> about. But without the crowd there is no joy...
>
> Bjornulf


Screw popularity. They dont HAVE to play forever just for the sake of satisfying ticket demand.

If they charged $100, they'd get BETTER and livelier crowds than the ageing and couldnt-care less corporate lard-asses who frequent their shows these days and dont know or want to hear anything that isnt on 40 Licks, who sit down or go to the bog when Keith sings and who sit bored when they play a ballad or an album track.

THAT is the audience the Stones tailor their show towards these days, and they effectively admit it because Mick himself has stated that he doesnt like playing relatively obscure songs like Moonlight Mile (from an album that sold about 8 million copies!!) which many of the audience DONT know!

I just can't believe some of you people are justifying the ticket prices. I figure you are either rich or dumb...possibly just too enamored with a rock band to see clearly.

Now who are these NUTS that say the ticket prices are comparable? How can you sit here & just lie? Go away.

In 1999 I went to the UK for all shows. The tickets were DIRT cheap compared with US prices. Further, it seemed (at least at the time) that things in the UK had a comparable cost amount with those in the States. What I mean is, if a pizza cost $15 in the states, it cost 15 pounds in the UK. Thus, for ticket prices to be comparable they should have been 300 pounds. Of course they were not. As I recall, they were closer to 40 pounds or something. Let's look at this again. $300 for the US and 40 pounds in the UK. Even with the exchange rate at the time we were talking something like $60 in the UK.

The last tour I went to Holland for all the shows. I don't recall the prices exactly, but I think they were around 70-100 euros. The exchange rate was pretty even at the time & again things seemed to cost a similar amount in denomination (pizza example again). So on that tour, tix in the states were $300 compared with 70-100 euros in Holland.

Ok...you have been exposed as a liar. Keep defending the ticket prices like a sap. Maybe you'll get lucky & they'll charge $5,000 per ticket...bet you'd really get excited then.

Another thing...I assume many of you are middle aged or older. I am 28yo...I realize the Stones don't seem to really care about the young fans...in fact there is a subtle attempt to exclude them (ie prices).

It is interesting though that when I'm at the Wiltern it's Keith, 2 inches from me at the end of the show saying "you're the one @#$%&, it's you who keeps me going". Well Keith, if it is the young energetic fans who know every word to every song & the boots too...then you better make it a bit more affordable.

Nobody is saying the band should give tix away...but hell...$200 per is MUCH more affordable. But go ahead...defend the band & the prices. You guys are old, have money, have houses, have no thoughts to the future...I guess the old guys in the band relate better to you than they do to me. I'm just a hard working guy who LOVES the Rolling Stones music & live show. I'm just not as far down the road as you guys & don't have the same $$$. Say...anyone know when rock n' roll completely sold out? Probably before my time.

>Now who are these NUTS that say the ticket prices are comparable? How can you sit here & just lie? Go away.

they were in the UK. I paid £150 for tickets for arena and stadium shows at the UK shows. Thats almost $300. Not as high as the US, but in the same ballpark and a rise of some 350% on ticket prices from their previous UK tour. Quite a hike.

>In 1999 I went to the UK for all shows. The tickets were DIRT cheap compared with US prices. Further, it seemed (at least at the time) that things in the UK had a comparable cost amount with those in the States. What I mean is, if a pizza cost $15 in the states, it cost 15 pounds in the UK. Thus, for ticket prices to be comparable they should have been 300 pounds. Of course they were not. As I recall, they were closer to 40 pounds or something. Let's look at this again. $300 for the US and 40 pounds in the UK. Even with the exchange rate at the time we were talking something like $60 in the UK.


Fair point, but with respect you miss something. The ticket prices you're quoating for the US were for the 1999 No Security shows, which was the first tour where the tickets went through the roof ($109 was the average NS ticket price - top tickets were $300). The 1997/98 BTB shows in the US were, correct me if I'm wrong, all around the same price, some $65 I believe (there were a small handful of shows in '98 where they charged high prices - MSG, The Hard Rock, Chicago UC - but generally the prices were around the $65 mark)

The tickets for the '99 UK shows were actually tickets for a '98 tour - the tour was postponed for a year in June 1998. At the time the tickets went on sale (December 1997) those prices of £40 were actually much the same as the US shows that were on sale at the same time.

Incidentally, the UK is a lot more expensive than the US for the most part when it comes to eating and general living costs (even taking exchange rates into account)

You're also quoting the top price of US tickets against medium priced tickets for Holland. You could get $90 tickets for US shows, I was able to (No Security tour also had tickets as low as $40) I think where there was standing at those European shows, those tickets were cheaper but there were plenty of seated tickets priced higher than 100 Euros..

Quite who youre aiming your remarks at regarding defending ticket prices I'm not sure, but if you're reading my posts on the subject, I plead not guilty! I agree with your last post 100%



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-02-04 02:26 by Gazza.

The last time I checked, the club/theatre shows in the States were $50.
I was in Chicago. You were at the Wiltern. I assume you paid $50. If so, what are you bitching about??
Unless you paid scalper $$$ to get into a theatre show??

Good post...but let's be fair. I am not talking about average ticket prices or what not...I'm talking about where folks like us sit. In Europe I'm sure we all get pitch seats...which happen to be a bit cheaper. In the US...we get floor seats...at least just off floor near the B-stage. We aren't average fans, so we don't pay average prices. Hell, I'll pay $30-40 for a damn t-shirt.

Despite an "apology" from Larry Mullen on the U2 web site regarding the cock-up in ticket sales, I find today that things get no better.

With no advance warning, the pre-sale of tickets for the Barcelona show, which was to start at 10.00 GMT today, was put back a couple of days, with the news of this decision being announced at, yes you guessed it, ONE MINUTE PAST TEN!!!

If they were to sell tickets at maximum price $50 to all arenas, all stadiums, then how should they find YOU, the REAL Stones fan, among 6 billion other people on mother earth? That is the problem. So many people are pushing the price tag up. The wristband model works in clubs, but with an expensive overhead manpower wise they can never implement thsi model for arena or stadium shows. It is VERY expensive to sell indivudual personal tickets.


Also, they have a crew of some 300 people on tour. It's a large company. It's not a garage band. This large operation is adding to the operational cost.


Bjornulf

>If they were to sell tickets at maximum price $50 to all arenas, all stadiums, then how should they find YOU, the REAL Stones fan, among 6 billion other people on mother earth? That is the problem.

a reasonably well organised official fan club with a PROPER priority ticket allocation perhaps? Other bands can do it. Obviously the Stones are bigger than any other band but their HARDCORE fanbase (ie the sort of people who go to say, 10+ shows per tour) is something that many major acts have. Most people who go to Stones concerts only go to one show. Its funny how these great tickets cant find their way to the real fans yet they seem to have no problem finding their way to brokers, ticket agencies and tour package companies at even more inflated prices...hmmm


> So many people are pushing the price tag up.

Bjornulf. With respect, there was greater demand for Stones tickets in '89 and '94 and even '97. Theres no reason why greater demand should make a band 'obliged' to increase ticket prices by three or four times as much. The Stones are meant to be a band, not scalpers with guitars. put the tickets on sale and make it a level playing field for everyone. When they're gone, they're gone. Simple case of supply and demand. It works that way for almost everyone else.

>The wristband model works in clubs, but with an expensive overhead manpower wise they can never implement this model for arena or stadium shows.

Correct.

>Also, they have a crew of some 300 people on tour. It's a large company. It's not a garage band. This large operation is adding to the operational cost.

thats also true, although with an arena tour and no stadiums, the size of the crew should be considerably less than that. The Stones arent the first or only band to play large venues however and to have a large crew. And they managed to take large crews of a similar size on the road on every tour up to 1998 without charging through the nose for it. You cant put all those increases just down to inflation! Their road crew must be on incredible wages compared to every other band's crew if thats an excuse for their ticket prices! Pity with all those wages they cant manage to get a decent sound system in so many venues, though !

I notice that the wealthier fans here seem to like to defend the ticket prices. Sorry BV...but you have an amazing ability to travel the world, go to TONS of shows & always seem to have very good seats. I don't mind that you are wealthy...just that you seem to defend the band from your wealthy soap box. I mean, we have met several times & you are a nice guy & all...but try to think of those who are not as wealthy as you. I mean I could not believe you flew around the world for that Jagger El Rey show...my God.