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James, he actually sings as well. He's just very opinionated-refused to do encores because he thought they were a sham. I would always tell him, "dude, you have to earn that kind of thing. I'm grateful if people want to hear more". I could go on and on. Okay, one more: didn't want drummers to sing backing vocals, even if they sang great, because he thought that, aesthetically it looked wrong.
My current band is called BUDOKAN, out here in Victoria, B.C.
btw - in another post "If I Fell" is mentioned. is there a modulation in the song? The tune has some tricky changes;from one section to another; some of the most genial of any Beatles song, but I ma not sure that it modulates.
He sure does! A glimmer at about 3:10 and then he reallys lays a modulation egg at 5:14!
It's a good rule, generally, that drummers should not sing. It's nothing about how it looks (good grief, really?), it's can they sing? Can they play while singing? Usually it's NO and NO so as a rule it's NO!
Yes. And while that is a very upfront, obvious one, it is also a very good one. It makes sense in an arrangment kind of way. The climb-up on the guitar.
To great effect on this one.
Right at the beginning of the last verse - "Whatever happened to ...."
"No Anchovies, Please"
And it's a good one.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
vox12string
()
Date: February 11, 2013 03:50
A lot of Country songs have modulation. Ones that come to mind include
"Get Your Tongue Outta My Mouth Cause I'm Kissing You Good-bye", "I'm So Miserable Without You It's Like Having You Here" & my favourite, "Your Wife's Been Cheating On Both Of Us"
"Get Your Tongue Outta My Mouth Cause I'm Kissing You Good-bye", "I'm So Miserable Without You It's Like Having You Here" & my favourite, "Your Wife's Been Cheating On Both Of Us"
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
andrewm
()
Date: February 11, 2013 04:27
Quote
jamesfdouglasQuote
andrewm
Good choice, James. I used to have this debate with a fellow songwriter when we were playing/recording in a band together. To him, modulation was anathema, a cheap cliche, too obvious, to be avoided at all cost. To me, it was, when used judiciously/sparingly, a great way of ramping up the drama or carrying the tune home. On a song on my current band's new album we modulate twice, going up a step each time, on the refrain at the end. "Too much?" we asked ourselves. "Absolutely not", we decided unanimously.
I agree, it really does amp it up, and I've always found that singers in particular enjoy key changes the most. Your former bandmate who debated this; let me guess... you sing, and he doesn't?
What's your band called. Andrew?
James, he actually sings as well. He's just very opinionated-refused to do encores because he thought they were a sham. I would always tell him, "dude, you have to earn that kind of thing. I'm grateful if people want to hear more". I could go on and on. Okay, one more: didn't want drummers to sing backing vocals, even if they sang great, because he thought that, aesthetically it looked wrong.
My current band is called BUDOKAN, out here in Victoria, B.C.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 11, 2013 04:32
Oh yes. The opening song "Manifesto" from same titled Roxy Music album does something similar. I am not where I can hear it, but I THINk it does something even more odd - maybe goes up and then back down (??)Quote
tomk
Sunny by Bobby Hebb. It changes keys (modulates) every verse.
btw - in another post "If I Fell" is mentioned. is there a modulation in the song? The tune has some tricky changes;from one section to another; some of the most genial of any Beatles song, but I ma not sure that it modulates.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
jazzbass
()
Date: February 11, 2013 04:45
Surrender. Cheap Trick.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
ozziestone
()
Date: February 11, 2013 05:00
Palace Revolution-The intro to If I Fell is in a flat key-D or E flat i think-and then goes up semitone at some point -somewhere around "just holding hands". Tricky song to play as you say but good example of modulation being used in a non-cliched way. There is an unsual (for a "pop" song) 9th chord in there somewhere too-around the "her" I think it is. There's the usual debate about how much of this sophistry is the Beatles and how much is George Martin of course
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
andrewm
()
Date: February 11, 2013 05:05
Or how about My Generation and Bad Reputation? Both do the very obvious full step up to start the final verse, if memory serves, and....it works!
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
nomis
()
Date: February 11, 2013 20:08
Dear Doctor "modulates" from E to A.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 11, 2013 20:28
Quote
matsumoto33Quote
ozziestone
Agreed andrewm. Modulation can work well. But also can be a lazy way of pepping up an otherwise ordinary song. Come On is a good example of the later.
My band struggles with key changes I must say-we tend to ignore them (eg Lodi)
I recall Chuck Berry trying to change key in the middle of Roll of Beethoven on Hail Hail with Keith firmly stopping him
I'm not sure if Keith would be up to a key change (in concert anyway) these days???
Keith modulates on his own here!
He sure does! A glimmer at about 3:10 and then he reallys lays a modulation egg at 5:14!
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 11, 2013 20:30
Quote
andrewmQuote
jamesfdouglasQuote
andrewm
Good choice, James. I used to have this debate with a fellow songwriter when we were playing/recording in a band together. To him, modulation was anathema, a cheap cliche, too obvious, to be avoided at all cost. To me, it was, when used judiciously/sparingly, a great way of ramping up the drama or carrying the tune home. On a song on my current band's new album we modulate twice, going up a step each time, on the refrain at the end. "Too much?" we asked ourselves. "Absolutely not", we decided unanimously.
I agree, it really does amp it up, and I've always found that singers in particular enjoy key changes the most. Your former bandmate who debated this; let me guess... you sing, and he doesn't?
What's your band called. Andrew?
James, he actually sings as well. He's just very opinionated-refused to do encores because he thought they were a sham. I would always tell him, "dude, you have to earn that kind of thing. I'm grateful if people want to hear more". I could go on and on. Okay, one more: didn't want drummers to sing backing vocals, even if they sang great, because he thought that, aesthetically it looked wrong.
My current band is called BUDOKAN, out here in Victoria, B.C.
It's a good rule, generally, that drummers should not sing. It's nothing about how it looks (good grief, really?), it's can they sing? Can they play while singing? Usually it's NO and NO so as a rule it's NO!
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
andrewm
()
Date: February 11, 2013 21:18
In general I agree with ya, GasLight (and yes, my former bandmate was really basing his stance on visuals, not the quality of the drummers' voice). Obviously, someone like Levon Helm would be an exception. Actually, our drummer (who was also the drummer back then) does backing vox on some songs now and I'm thinking it sounds okay. Again, as a rule,though, I agree that they should focus on the beat-keeping, which is hard enough as it is.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 11, 2013 23:41
Quote
nomis
Dear Doctor "modulates" from E to A.
Yes. And while that is a very upfront, obvious one, it is also a very good one. It makes sense in an arrangment kind of way. The climb-up on the guitar.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 19, 2013 05:03
I heard "I Walk the Line" today, and..does it constantly modulate? I have to listen to it w/ an instrument. I love this seemingly simple songs that turn out very sophisticated.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: February 19, 2013 05:19
john said the opening here came about b/c the band had just learned key changes
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
ozziestone
()
Date: February 19, 2013 11:54
Yes walk the line does change key, going back to original key at the end but an octave lower ( try doing that when you've had a few ). Contrast "I've been everywhere man" which simply goes up half step each verse
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
BluzDude
()
Date: February 20, 2013 08:14
Under My Wheels - Alice Cooper
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
rpc2uk
()
Date: February 20, 2013 10:40
How about Rambling On My Mind played live by Eric Clapton. He supposedly shouted out to the band to change key mid song to keep them on their toes (but I reckon it might have been rehearsed). Crossroads 2 has a couple of versions of this on disc 1
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Singer_Not_The_Song
()
Date: February 20, 2013 12:34
The Boss has some cracking key changes:-
At 2:35, this is the smoothest, punchiest one I know
And here at 2:21:-
At 2:35, this is the smoothest, punchiest one I know
And here at 2:21:-
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
ozziestone
()
Date: February 20, 2013 12:56
Barry Manilow is the man you want if you're into modulation. "Mandy" is the obvious example. But there are many others
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: February 20, 2013 22:27
Quote
jazzbass
Surrender. Cheap Trick.
To great effect on this one.
Right at the beginning of the last verse - "Whatever happened to ...."
"No Anchovies, Please"
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
still ill
()
Date: February 20, 2013 22:49
First one that came to mind
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 21, 2013 12:51
The Rolling Stones - We Love You
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
downagain
()
Date: February 22, 2013 04:59
The Village Green Preservation Society.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Undercover1
()
Date: February 22, 2013 05:06
Yep...Cheap Tricks' Surrender is my fave.
Undercover1
Undercover1
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Wry Cooter
()
Date: February 22, 2013 06:09
With all due respect to it's wonderful use in "Surender", the modulation is often a truly cheap trick. Here's a cool example of some creative use:
Have Mercy...
And then on the other hand you have expert use of multiple keys...
Gotta keep those...
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-02-22 06:46 by Wry Cooter.
Have Mercy...
And then on the other hand you have expert use of multiple keys...
Gotta keep those...
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-02-22 06:46 by Wry Cooter.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 22, 2013 10:27
Quote
His Majesty
The Rolling Stones - We Love You
And it's a good one.
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: February 22, 2013 15:17
Dizzy by Tommy Roe
Re: OT songs that have key changes
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: February 22, 2013 22:27
Ronnie's FUC her - look at the cover it even states it: "A up to C".
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