just listening to a couple of tracks from the download of the 75 show. Great stuff. Was Mick Taylor on this show?

That is Ronnie through and through.

I thought it was but had a hard time believing it was him because it was great playing. It has really brought home how far he has fallen in the mix during the last several tours.

check out RW on Gimme Shelter on that disc! He easily holds his own with MT there....easy to see why in '75 the Stones were excited to have RW in tow....

Yeah, Ronnie was brilliant. His playing was filled with emotion and it took you somewhere and built in intensity. How could he play so well, tuned up on all that dope and booze??

Ronnie's good nature hides some other resentments, due to the fact that he was not treated as a full member of the band until sometime in the 90s. Until then, he was not given a full share of tour revenues. Not many people are aware of this. Ron was essentially treated as as a hired hand.

Frankly, I think this was a crappy way for Mick & Keith to treat a guy who basically kept the band from falling apart during the late 70s-early 80s, and I believe this directly contributed to his addiction problems. However, I also think that this why the "Glimmer Twins" have been loyal to Ron since that time, having finally realized what his value to the band truly was (and is).

bassplayer, well said re: Ronnie. He is such a great person and very talented and loyal to many friends in the music business. How many appearances has he made since the stones finished the licks tour? He has paid his dues to the band and us as fans. I think he is essentially lost without the band and the shelter of the stones umbrella. When I see him on the flicks video he needs the support of his wife and direction from the other band members to function. Ronnie is a follower and one can only imagine what would become of Ronnie if his wif were to leave him. I suspect that was why Ronnie was so agreeable to go into rehab before and after the tour.

bassplayer - I don't agree with your assumption that folks don't know RW was not a full-fledged member - I think almost everyone knows that. Many people don't know that his status changed in 1993/4 - many/most still assume he's just still a hired hand.

The last two comments neatly summarize the opinions of the pro-Ron/anti-Ron camps.

I'm sorry if I hijacked this thread with my statement, but I honestly believe that this community should be talking more about Ronnie--after all, he IS a Rolling Stone.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, I love the guy and hold the highest respect for him. He'd be my first choice for "Rolling Stone you'd most like to have a conversation with". As for dinner, well, the man's a vegetarian, but I guess I could deal with that LOL.

Actually, I didn't know Ronnie's status changed so late in the game. That's pretty tough. Too tough! Too rude! Too tight!

So when does Daryll Jones become a full-fledged member of the band?



She was black... and her eyes were blue!

OK, for the longest while Ron was just a hired hand. Both he and MT came on board in times that the band had a hazy future. Neither he nor MT thought it would last, and it is my understanding that maybe both but at least with Ron, the option to come on as a hired hand was BY CHOICE. They choose to get a salary rather than a partnership.

Now before we all feel to sorry for him, over $100,000 and more per show is nothing that any of us or the vast majority of musicians will ever achieve. I am pretty sure that is what Ronnie basically played for, but if Gazza or Mathijs no the exact figures I am willing to stand corrected.

No matter what the conflict of emotions or feelings of insecurity being stuck between the Glimmer Twins, the two biggest egos ( read ass holes LOL) in rock may cause,and no matter that substance abuse has its basis in genetics and disease, it was always Ronnie's choice to self medicate rather than deal with the issues. That self medication is what has led to his near detruction as a musician.

kahoosier, here is a point in which you and I can agree to disagree. Ronnie, as near I can tell, is a guy who holds the notion that everyone should get along all the time (much as I think), and especially in a band (or other work) situation. Needless to say, it's an idealistic, if not naive, point of view. However, I can readily identify with it, having played in bands for years, and now in an office environment. You become the mediator, and this creates its own stresses.

Steve, I'm in one of those situations right now, as lead worker and essentially second in command in my work unit. The job is really tough now, as some people have left and their positions are not going to be filled. The remainder have to take up the slack.

Ronnie was put in a similar position in 1975--his initial spot was as a fill-in, and even after he quit the Faces, and this uncertainty stuck with him until the 1994 Voodoo Lounge tour, as others have stated.

He didn't have the protection of a Civil Service Agency, as I do. Despite the protections offered by the Musicians' Unions in various countries, Ronnie's job was for years unsecured.

I don't know about you, Steve, as an MD, but for a guy whose living depended upon playing music, the pressure had to be simply overwhelming, and I do not blame him for reacting by taking comfort in substances. How would the world accept him as another ex-member of the Stones if he had decided to quit the band during the hiatus of the mid-80s, especially as he was not officially a Stone in Mick or Keith's eyes? He had no leverage--none--so he, by being a nice guy, was stuck in limbo for several years, until the 1989 tour. He DID work, and I saw him in 1985 in a Pittsburgh club, playing with Bo Diddley's band, but he was just going thru the motions, even during his solo spot. I managed to catch his eye once, and his expression was blank--no smile, no acknowledgement whatsoever. He was not happy with doing this--it was just a fill-in.

No, I don't blame Ronnie for his bad habits--his alleged friends manipulated him and he got stuck in the middle of the fight between Mick & Keith.

Can anyone recommend any other good
Stones download sites and provide an url?

I think Ronnie has done well to stick in with the Stones for so long particuarly considering both Brian and Mick T lasted a relatively brief time.
In 75 Ronnie played the Mick Taylor role as well as he could although i would never have any trouble telling them apart.
I do believe though in joining the Stones Ronnie has forfeitted any creative aspirations he may have had.
Ronnie belongs in a band but is most effective when he is leading the band as in the Faces and not playing a secondary role to Keith. I can't help feeling whatever creative aspirations he may have had have long gone and he is merely a shadow of his old self.Maybe being in the Stones has dulled his talent - it's hard to say.

Actually bassplayer, we disagree on little. I do believe a lot of what you said about stress. I do believe Ronnie put himself in a spot that may only be evnviable from a financial view and from an outsider looking in, and not from a creative persons perspective. However, it is the canticle of recovery, that while accepting abuse as an illness, at each and every point it is a CHOICE to take that first drink or hit. After that first one, the monkey climbs off the back and takes full control. I say that from professional experience and from 20 year old personal lessons learned long ago. Whatever is ruining Ronnie is , at the very bottom of it all, a result of HIS choices and HIS life decisions.

Bassplayer, I could cave now: the center I work for usually has four health care providors. All of last fall it was me alone. Even now, I have only the aid of a Nurse Practitioner, no other doctors and the Dentist has left. So that leaves me basically 24/7 to handle all the health and dental care of every living soul on the island until we can attract more professional help. But what the other 67 ancillary employees see is that their work load remains the same.The patients know only that they are ill. At times the stress in incredible, and everyone expects the Doc to be the level headed guy. I could give in to the drives from 20 years past. When I realize I am turning milk white while living in the tropics because I never get outside, sure, the idea intrudes that I should get drunk, pull up a pot plant from the jungle ( there are plenty there) or even if coke is not available, the Asian population has "ice" all the time. But every time those thoughts intrude, I make the conscious decision to not give in. I was never a 12 stepper (Rational Recovery made more sense to me) but those steps give good advise. Ronnie has had it tough because of decisions he has made, and many of those things that have been tough for him would never be understood by others than can only see the fame and the money. But it was alwasy HIS DECISION to start self medicating. Maybe, like Steven Tyler, he will need to attend an AA meeting in every town on every stop of the tour. Maybe he will find strength elswhere. But everytime he lets the pressures of his life lead him to the bottle, the crack pipe, or whatever, he spirals into the constant paradox of self destruction: what you are doing to make you feel better only makes it all so much worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-28 10:07 by kahoosier.

I disagree with the assumption that Ronnie's boozing has/had something to do with the pressure of being in the band. Rock'n'roll and boozing go hand in hand - hell, the Faces made it a band objective! What separates Ronnie from others - I'll cite Mac and Keith as great examples - is that his constitution/body obviously aren't as well equipped to handle it. Mac and Keith haven't lost their chops (Keith's are beginning to erode, I'll admit) despite their longtime addiction to the bottle. But, I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that it has something to do with being a Stone.

Ronnie 1975 = killed 'em
Ronnie 1978 = killed 'em

Ronnie 1981/82 killed 'em...with errors

Ronnie these days........very, very ordinary....

Esky

Purely right. And yes, how far he has fallen in the mix during the last several tours... When he plays and don't raise the 2 arms every thirty seconds.

We can't blame external factors for our decision
to abuse booze. Alcoholism is a sickness, perhaps
genetic in nature, or a chemical imbalance, that
we feed by using until it consumes us. This is first
and foremost a deliberate decision, for whatever
excuse suits our purpose, and the addiction, if any
is psychological in nature, we choose to destroy
our minds and our bodies with it. To blame others
or ones circumstances is pathetic, an avoidance
of our own responsibility towards our bodies
and ourselves, not to mention the others
who may be hurt as we self destruct.
I hope Ronnie gets it together, I'd hate
to see him waste himself any further.