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Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: Eirik ()
Date: January 29, 2013 22:15

Quite amazing, Ironbelly. It's like there's two mixes/cd masterings on two similar prints. Why did they do that actually? Have you tried comparing the early UK London/Abkco versions as well? E.g. my early version of LIB has catalogue number 844 473-2. Disc is pressed in the UK by Universal.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: mpmternst ()
Date: August 18, 2013 08:01

Sorry to join the thread so late. From what I read here, I think I have a German first pressing of Beggars Banquet. What's the story with the track listing inside of the booklet? Thanks.










Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 18, 2013 10:45

Quote
mpmternst
Sorry to join the thread so late. From what I read here, I think I have a German first pressing of Beggars Banquet. What's the story with the track listing inside of the booklet? Thanks.










CD is perfectly OK. The first pressing
Back cover outside and inside (including catalog number under tray) is OK.
Front page is OK
Inside the booklet - a misprint. I would suggest production error.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 18, 2013 10:45

Quote
mpmternst

What's the story with the track listing inside of the booklet?




If this is really the inside of the booklet of 'Beggars Banquet', then it is a totally misprint. The track listing belongs to Simply Red's 'Picture Book', their debut album released in October 1985. Unfortunately I don't know more about the misprint in the booklet, seems to be a mistake by the printing works (maybe they had forgotten to exchange the plate).



Simply Red's frontman Mick Hucknall seems to be a Stones fan - he was among the guests at the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Rolling Stones on 12th July 2012:





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-18 11:00 by Irix.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: August 18, 2013 10:48

It's obviously a cock-up at the printers. The track listing is for "Picture Book" by Simply Red: [en.wikipedia.org]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: August 18, 2013 13:15

I've checked my CD's and found this one, don't know if it help.



HMN
StonesCave

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: August 18, 2013 14:01

wow.tongue sticking out smiley

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: mpmternst ()
Date: August 18, 2013 18:39

Thanks for your help. I'm not familiar with Simply Red, but I'll look into that album. The cd booklet confused me when I bought it years ago.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 18, 2013 18:42

Quote
Irix
Quote
mpmternst

What's the story with the track listing inside of the booklet?




If this is really the inside of the booklet of 'Beggars Banquet', then it is a totally misprint. The track listing belongs to Simply Red's 'Picture Book', their debut album released in October 1985. Unfortunately I don't know more about the misprint in the booklet, seems to be a mistake by the printing works (maybe they had forgotten to exchange the plate).



Simply Red's frontman Mick Hucknall seems to be a Stones fan - he was among the guests at the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Rolling Stones on 12th July 2012:


Hucknall is like Taylor's 'ginger brother'.

Re: German London CDs MATRX VERSION # 01
Posted by: DECCA61 ()
Date: August 18, 2013 19:40

i cant make a scan .. BUT i HAVE a Germany copy of THE ROLLING STONES - THE ROLLING STONES. with the very very first FFRR "london recordings" matrix says: 820 047-2 # 01 ... it that unknown ?? the # 01

DECCA61

Re: German London CDs MATRX VERSION # 01
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 19, 2013 14:46

Quote
DECCA61
i cant make a scan .. BUT i HAVE a Germany copy of THE ROLLING STONES - THE ROLLING STONES. with the very very first FFRR "london recordings" matrix says: 820 047-2 # 01 ... it that unknown ?? the # 01

DECCA61
That is a great one. Very-very rare. 01# - is number of glass master I guess. There are other numers 02# and 03#.
[www.iorr.org]

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 19, 2013 16:42

Quote
Eirik
Quite amazing, Ironbelly. It's like there's two mixes/cd masterings on two similar prints. Why did they do that actually? Have you tried comparing the early UK London/Abkco versions as well? E.g. my early version of LIB has catalogue number 844 473-2. Disc is pressed in the UK by Universal.

Here we go
Let It Bleed
London 820 052 - 2
01* and 02#
85.0%, 80.9%, 93.6%, 91.3%, 76.0%, 84.6%, 80.8%, 90.5%, 95.4%

03/ and french London pressings
87.4%, 80.6%, 96.7%, 88.9%, 73.6%, 81.8%, 77.7%, 87.3%, 92.2%

ABKCO 844 473-2
81,3%, 65,7%, 100,0%, 100,0%, 82,2%, 76,7%, 77,0%, 82,5%, 88,0%

P33L 25002 and POCD-1925
88,9%, 81,6%, 94,1%, 91,1%, 78,3%, 89,7%, 79,6%, 94,9%, 98,9%

So there are 4 slightly differen mastersings for this particular disc.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: DECCA61 ()
Date: August 19, 2013 18:51

Quote
DECCA61
i cant make a scan .. BUT i HAVE a Germany copy of THE ROLLING STONES - THE ROLLING STONES. with the very very first FFRR "london recordings" matrix says: 820 047-2 # 01 ... it that unknown ?? the # 01

DECCA61
That is a great one. Very-very rare. 01# - is number of glass master I guess. There are other numers 02# and 03#.
[www.iorr.org]

YES IRONBELLY THATS THE ONE the link you provided here shows the cd i found here . ROLLING STONES - ROLLING STONES with the # 01 at the end after the matrix nr. i remember it was one of my very first cd's in 1986 !!

DECCA61

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: mpmternst ()
Date: August 20, 2013 02:48

Here is a scan of my cd of Their Satanic Magesties Request. "Made in West Germany" with silver paint to the center hole, but labelled Abkco Records with a black London logo.


Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 20, 2013 07:43

Quote
mpmternst
Here is a scan of my cd of Their Satanic Magesties Request. "Made in West Germany" with silver paint to the center hole, but labelled Abkco Records with a black London logo.


Hmmm... This is not London. This is so called 'old ABKCO'. It is version for the US from December 1986. Although, it was pressed in Hanover.

The differences between London, 'old ABKCO' and '2002 remasters' were described in details by Luke and Dave some 11 years ago.
[lukpac.org]

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: mpmternst ()
Date: August 21, 2013 00:40

Quote
ironbelly
Hmmm... This is not London. This is so called 'old ABKCO'. It is version for the US from December 1986. Although, it was pressed in Hanover.

The differences between London, 'old ABKCO' and '2002 remasters' were described in details by Luke and Dave some 11 years ago.
[lukpac.org]

Thanks for this. There is a lot of good information here.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: November 7, 2014 15:02

I have another stupid question.

If you'll check the matrices of those old London CD's you'll probably find tiny letters pressed or scratched after catalog number. It is believed that those letters appeared some time in the late 84 - early 85. All the CD pressed in Hanover in 1982-early 1984 are 'letters free'.

I was trying to sort those letters out. Unfortunately it did not work well for all the CDs but at least for one I found a kind of a system. I am talking about Beggars Banquet [800 084-2]. This one is good as it was in press from 1984 till 1994 so you can follow the trend.

Here is a table

Well, one should use 6 months margin for estimated dates. But, in general, they are more or less correct.

And examples
800 084-2 02# Without letters. This seem to be true first pressing.


800 084-2 02# BB (scratched)


800 084-2 03# CD


800 084-2 03# FZ


800 084-2 04+ GF


800 084-2 04+ YD (letters on inner mirror band)


800 084-2 04+ YJ (letters closer to the central hole)


Sorry, quality for some of the images is not very good.

Does anybody know for what those letters stand for?

Definitively there is a sequence from "A" to "G" that correlates with time line for Polydor and PDO pressings. Later, for PRS and PMDC, we got letter "Y".

I know that Japanese-made CDs contain a special string in the matrix like 1A2 that means: 1= 1st father, A= 1st mother, 2= 2nd stampler.

Similar strings could be found on Voodoo Lounge singles made in UK by Swindon (1:1:2) or Virgin CDs made in Holland (1-1-2-NL). Those are easy cases.

I can buy the numbers and special symbols (02#, 03#, 04+) to mark glass master/father. But how to interpret those letter from old Hanover plant?

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: Thommie ()
Date: November 7, 2014 16:20

Quote
Irix
Quote
mpmternst

What's the story with the track listing inside of the booklet?




If this is really the inside of the booklet of 'Beggars Banquet', then it is a totally misprint. The track listing belongs to Simply Red's 'Picture Book', their debut album released in October 1985. Unfortunately I don't know more about the misprint in the booklet, seems to be a mistake by the printing works (maybe they had forgotten to exchange the plate).



Simply Red's frontman Mick Hucknall seems to be a Stones fan - he was among the guests at the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Rolling Stones on 12th July 2012:


Jagger was missing when the photo should be taken. Therefore they had to throw another Mick in...
Mick as Mick, they said. But I don't know...

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: mariannerl ()
Date: November 8, 2014 00:38

@ironbelly: your posting on stonestreff board is released now. I am very sorry I was not online to do it. We don't allow postings including links for new members (spam reasons). Hopefully somebody will have some answers or informations to complete this discussion.
[www.stonestreff.com]

Gruss
mariannerl (Mrs M / admin Stonestreff)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-08 00:40 by mariannerl.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: November 8, 2014 01:12

Quote
mariannerl
@ironbelly: your posting on stonestreff board is released now. I am very sorry I was not online to do it. We don't allow postings including links for new members (spam reasons). Hopefully somebody will have some answers or informations to complete this discussion.
[www.stonestreff.com]

Gruss
mariannerl (Mrs M / admin Stonestreff)
Thank you. No problem.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: rollingandre ()
Date: November 8, 2014 20:14

Hi Andrii,

Good to see that you are still busy with the London CD issues.
We already have discused this matter by email.

Keep on collecting !

Andre

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: November 8, 2014 22:21

Hi, Andre

I am still in it. Very funny and exiting creatures those old WG CDs are. And the list you sent me was very helpful. I'll send you my updated list soon for your comments.

A few things are clear for me by now.
1 - there definitively was an additional pressing between PolyGram (so called 2nd) and PDO with old logo (3rd with old logo).
2 - So called 4th pressing with new logo was earlier than 4th pressing with old logo.

Now I am trying to figure out the issue with tiny letters. There are lots of them of different shape and position on the CD. It is certain they appeared in late 84 or early 85. The very first pressings of Beggars Banquet, The Rolling Stones, 12x5 and Out Of Our Heads came letter free. The later re issues of those albums and all others came with letters.

Now the question is - for what those letters stand for? There is a system. They could mark mother-stampler, or pressing machine, or quality control, or....

Is here anybody familiar with the rules at old plant in Hanover?

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 9, 2014 06:01

I find it fascinating the dedication to collecting and indeed the collectability of these 80s CDs.

It's not about the sound quality surely...why are they so collectible? I'm asking as a neophyte to the London CDs, but who has quite a detailed vinyl collection.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: November 9, 2014 07:27

Hi Treacle, in some cases, it is the sound quality. I bought these London CD's in early-mid 1986 at either A&A Records or Sam The Record Man on Seymour St.in Vancouver. They are mastered by Mobile Fidelity and sounded better than the original ABKCO releases in North America which came out the following year.
The Hot Rocks CD also has stereo versions of Play With Fire, Satisfaction and Cloud.
I bought all the SACD hybrids in 2002 and I still prefer Lady Jane and Ruby Tuesday from those original London CD's. I didn't like the 2002 Ruby Tuesday since it's missing some of the vocals during the chorus, although they've been restored on GRRR.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: November 9, 2014 12:07

Hi, treaclefingers
Those London CDs are interesting from many points.

From collectors point of view - some of those 1st pressings are already 30 years old. Beggars Banquet and The Rolling Stones - July 1984, 12x5 and Out Of Our Heads - September 1984. Many of them are quite rare, the pressing run was limited. Some contain multiple errors and misprints. To name a few well known. The 1st and the 2nd pressing of The Rolling Stones [820 047-2] with matrix 01# not only came with long, cold ended version of Tell Me (4.05), but also are marked (misprinted) Stereo. Booklet of Hot Rocks 1 [820 141-2] is a total mess, they misprint mono and stereo tracks.

The sound quality is also rather good for most of them. And those CDs are the only place to get wide stereo versions for certain tracks, as DGA35 already pointed out.

There is an investigation on sound quality and comparison with later re-issues here [lukpac.org]
Unfortunately Luke and Dave did not update that page since 2002. There are some minor errors because they did not have the whole set of WG London CDs in hand.

If you want to see the variety - look at this winking smiley
[www.iorr.org]

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 9, 2014 17:07

Thanks guys...it's amazing what I'm able to learn on this site from aficionados!

And DGA35, I'm surprised that I wasn't even aware of these in the mid-80s, as I was already a huge Stones fan and frequented those shops on Seymour, especially A&B Sound which I believe started 'Boxing Day madness!'.

Anyway, thanks for the info...I may have to rethink and expand my collection to start looking for these!

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: November 9, 2014 22:12

Hi Treacle, I live out in the valley so I used to drive down to the huge Boxing Day sales at A&B every year! Bought my first Sony CD player Boxing Day 85. Hot Rocks was actually sold as 2 separate CD's. On my disc 1, I still have the sale sticker on it from Sam The Record Man, $26.99! At the time I thought that was a rip off but since that was the only version available and that was the only time I ever saw it, I figured I'd better get it!
These days, where do you shop for CD's or albums? I try to stop into Neptoon Records on Main a few times a year when I'm in town. Other than that, it seems Walmart and Target have the most selection.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: November 9, 2014 22:31

I really can't remember when I start buying CD's....maybe I should check out some my collection...............

__________________________

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: November 11, 2014 15:04

Let me bump it a bit.

Now, it is Hot Rocks 1 [820 141-2]. The Holy Grail for those who are looking for true wide-stereo versions of the early tracks.

The situation with the letters is not that smooth.

And the question is still here - for what those letters stand for?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-11 15:06 by ironbelly.

Re: Question about German London CDs
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 11, 2014 15:40

Quote
DGA35
Hi Treacle, I live out in the valley so I used to drive down to the huge Boxing Day sales at A&B every year! Bought my first Sony CD player Boxing Day 85. Hot Rocks was actually sold as 2 separate CD's. On my disc 1, I still have the sale sticker on it from Sam The Record Man, $26.99! At the time I thought that was a rip off but since that was the only version available and that was the only time I ever saw it, I figured I'd better get it!
These days, where do you shop for CD's or albums? I try to stop into Neptoon Records on Main a few times a year when I'm in town. Other than that, it seems Walmart and Target have the most selection.

Neptoon is great...but do you ever go to Zulu on 4th? Fantastic! I've spent hours in that place pouring over old vinyl, starting at a dollar.

I miss the old A&B sound days though!

They valley eh? Where are you from, Abbottsford, Chilliwack?

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