Well guys, I have a stupid question about particular discs issued (re-released) in Germany on London Records supposingly in the very beginning of 90s (the very end of 80s???)

Eberybody know this site with 6 London Pressings [home.arcor.de]

Those from 1st (PolyGram) to 3rd (MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO) were pressed on flat CDs with 'silver' up to the very cenral hole.

Most (if not all) discs from 4th pressing with matrix MADE IN GERMANY and old logo were CDs with narrow clear ring around central hole and protective ring (tooth) around the hub on the working side. Like this one



The question is - what about 4th German pressing with new logo?

I never have those discs in hands. Does anbody here have them? If yes, would you check those details for 4th pressing with new logo - protective ring and if the 'silver' covers the disc up to the central hole.

Your help is highly appreciated.

This is why I love IORR...... (Sorry, can't help you tho)

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Vocalion
This is why I love IORR...... (Sorry, can't help you tho)

Thank you very much anyway. I have another tough question but I'll ask it later

I think I have one of this. Do you want to have some scans of disc and back cover ?

Thank you axl79. A scan or two from the discs are welcome.

But main thing I want to know - those details about CDs - 'silver up to the central hole' and protective ring around the hub on the working side for 4th German pressing with new logo.

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ironbelly
Thank you axl79. A scan or two from the discs are welcome.

But main thing I want to know - those details about CDs - 'silver up to the central hole' and protective ring around the hub on the working side for 4th German pressing with new logo.

Ok, I send it to you by e-mail ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-26 13:50 by axl79.

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axl79

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ironbelly
Thank you axl79. A scan or two from the discs are welcome.

But main thing I want to know - those details about CDs - 'silver up to the central hole' and protective ring around the hub on the working side for 4th German pressing with new logo.

Ok, I send it to you by e-mail ...

Thank you.

Just to make other guys busy. I had a discussion with guys who are collecting discs - old and rare early pressings, not only Stones, just old discs from Hannover. They gave me some clues. It seems it is really hard to find an exact date for re-realeses on London. However, there is a kind of 'universal' behaviour for the discs printed on that plant in Hannover.

1. Flat discs, 'silver to the very central hole', Made in W. Germany by PolyGram on the face, catalogue number printed on the back cover under the tray (you have to remove the CD tray from the jewel case to see it), appr. till 1987 - those are 1st and 2n pressings.

2. Flat discs, 'silver to the very central hole', Made in W. Germany PDO on matrix, catalogue number printed on the back cover under the tray, appr. till 1988 - those are 3rd pressing with old logo.

3. Flat discs, 'silver to the very central hole', Made in W. Germany PDO on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 1989-1990 - those are 3rd pressing with new logo.

4. Flat discs, 'silver to the very central hole', Made in Germany on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 90-91 ????

5. Discs with protective ring, 'silver to the very central hole', Made in Germany on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 91-92 ????

6. Discs with protective ring, narrow clean ring around the central hole, Made in Germany on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 92 ???? - Those are 4th pressing with old logo

7. Discs with protective ring, narrow clean ring around the central hole, Made in Germany by PMDC on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 92-93 ???? - Those are 5th pressing with old logo

8. Discs with protective ring, clean hub, nothing on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 93-94 ???? - Those are 6th pressing

9. Discs with protective ring, clean hub, IFPI on matrix, Made in Germany by PMDC on matrix, nothing on the back cover under the tray, appr. 94 onwards ???? - Those are ABKCOs with Digitally remastered stripe in the bottom of booklet from march 95.

Can somebody add or correct this sheet?

Luckily there's no holes in the music itself.

As per your explanation, I guess this is 1st pressing. (manufactured by Polydor K.K. Japan.)
There's no red bar "digitally remastered" on the cover, though.

This is the 1st German London cd, with Japanese booklet, sold in Japan. The plastic stickered obi is missing.

The same cd, with the old ffrr London recordings logo, is also used for the German market. On the German booklet there is a red digitally re-mastered banner on the cover. On the rear the catalog number is DECCA 800 084-2 RH.
This German 1st pressing of Beggars Banquet has 2 different booklets, one with 2 pages and another with 4 pages.
There is also another 1st pressing with the old ffrr London recordings logo, the Rolling Stones DECCA 820 047-2 RH, only with a 2 page booklet.

For the 2nd German pressing there was a new logo, the boxed blue red flag London.
Only the Rolling Stones and Beggars Banquet booklets had DECCA on the rear. The other titles all had LONDON.

The official jewel cases from these 1st and 2nd German London pressings had soft edges.

Toru A
I guess this is W. Germany for Japan or something like that. It is listed as first Japan edition.

The first pressing in Europe was with matrix number 800 084-2 02#. Yours is 03# which appear on later European pressings CDs.

Bump.

Anybody has those 4th pressings with new logo? Are they real?

My "The Rolling Stones" CD (bought in France in the early 90s, 1990 or 1991) has a modern logo but the silver does not go to the center. It has a protective ring.


The logo has simiilar modern lettering to this DECCA logo, not script lettering.
[upload.wikimedia.org]

Good to see that there still are collectors on this forum...

I don't think there exists 4th pressings with the modern logo. A few years ago I bought several of these early German pressings to have the whole collection in at least EX condition (so I have 30 discs from the 2nd to the 6th pressing, and I've checked them all now). The ones I have from the 4th pressing all have the old logo. I think you will only find the new logo in the 3rd and 6th pressing. Then I'm not an expert, I didn't know there was six pressing until I read this post. Happy hunting, Ironbelly.

Eirik
As a matter of fact...

I only found one picture of that CD. It came from torrent uploaded at demonoid a few years ago by campannella. It definitevily looks like 4th pressing with new logo.

But the matrix number (03/) and digital signature of the disc (TOC and peaks) makes me think it was made in France.

Anyway, here we go.


But this is the only one. And demonoid is dead so I can not ask campannella.

Neither does any of my 4th pressing have the BA900 logo below the bar code. Same goes for the 6th. So maybe that site isn't a 100% correct

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ironbelly
Eirik
As a matter of fact...

I only found one picture of that CD. It came from torrent uploaded at demonoid a few years ago by campannella. It definitevily looks like 4th pressing with new logo.

But the matrix number (03/) and digital signature of the disc (TOC and peaks) makes me think it was made in France.

Anyway, here we go.


But this is the only one. And demonoid is dead so I can not ask campannella.

But on that one (in your picture) there is no narrow clear inner ring. The silver goes all the way up to the centre. So that one can't be a 4th german pressing. Or...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-28 22:54 by Eirik.

Eirik
Right. 6th pressing and BA900 barcode does not fit well. That is in mine case too.

As for silver to the central hole - it is possible that '4th new' was pressed earlier than '4th old'. Kind of weird.

Mine looks like ironbelly's - My 3 London CDs (from early 90s) have the BA900, all with modern logos, one of them has the ring and the silver stops at the ring. I'll scan ASAP.

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ironbelly
Eirik
Right. 6th pressing and BA900 barcode does not fit well. That is in mine case too.

As for silver to the central hole - it is possible that '4th new' was pressed earlier than '4th old'. Kind of weird.

Agree. One more thing: My copy of the German 4th pressing of Let It Bleed has the exact same matrix number (03). Old logo and narrow clear inner ring. It clearly states "Made In Germany" on the inner (silver) ring, and "Made in West Germany" on the disc's label.

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Eirik

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ironbelly
Eirik
Right. 6th pressing and BA900 barcode does not fit well. That is in mine case too.

As for silver to the central hole - it is possible that '4th new' was pressed earlier than '4th old'. Kind of weird.

Agree. One more thing: My copy of the German 4th pressing of Let It Bleed has the exact same matrix number (03). Old logo and narrow clear inner ring. It clearly states "Made In Germany" on the inner (silver) ring, and "Made in West Germany" on the disc's label.

The trick with LIB is - there are 2 matrixes with 03.
03/ - on the scan I posted above (thank you campannella)
03# - this one I have on mine 6th pressing with new logo.

Digital signatures from the discs on matrix 03/ and 03# are different. I need to dig into my hardrive. I'll post TOC tommorrow. But just FYI

Matrix 03#
43 min. 42 sec
Peak levels
85.0%, 80.9%, 93.6%, 91.3%, 76.0%, 84.6%, 80.8%, 90.5%, 95.4%

Matrix 03/
43 min. 32 sec.
Peak levels
87.4%, 80.6%, 96.7%, 88.9%, 73.6%, 81.8%, 77.7%, 87.3%, 92.2%

Life is funny, isn't it? You have 2 different mixes for the same LIB.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-28 23:33 by ironbelly.

ROCKMAN

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Rockman

2nd german.

....Thanks... that's what I thought...



ROCKMAN

ROCKMAN

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Eirik

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ironbelly
Eirik
Right. 6th pressing and BA900 barcode does not fit well. That is in mine case too.

As for silver to the central hole - it is possible that '4th new' was pressed earlier than '4th old'. Kind of weird.

Agree. One more thing: My copy of the German 4th pressing of Let It Bleed has the exact same matrix number (03). Old logo and narrow clear inner ring. It clearly states "Made In Germany" on the inner (silver) ring, and "Made in West Germany" on the disc's label.

Perhaps it was produced at exactly the time the Wall was being destroyed. It was West Germany one day and Germany the next.......

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Rockman

2nd German. Misprinted STEREO. Long Tell Me (4.05). The same matrix as for the very first black-and-red edition with ffrr London logo was used.

This one and OOOH you posted above are from Sept. 1984.

Long Tell Me (4.05). ..... Yeah that's the good bit ... thanks ironbelly..

Have a few other German pressings somewhere but I'm sure they'll all be 2nd releases



ROCKMAN

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uhbuhgullayew

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Eirik

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ironbelly
Eirik
Right. 6th pressing and BA900 barcode does not fit well. That is in mine case too.

As for silver to the central hole - it is possible that '4th new' was pressed earlier than '4th old'. Kind of weird.

Agree. One more thing: My copy of the German 4th pressing of Let It Bleed has the exact same matrix number (03). Old logo and narrow clear inner ring. It clearly states "Made In Germany" on the inner (silver) ring, and "Made in West Germany" on the disc's label.

Perhaps it was produced at exactly the time the Wall was being destroyed. It was West Germany one day and Germany the next.......

Ha ha, yes that must be the reason

Eirik
This is what I was talking about yesterday.

Let It Bleed (1st French Pressing, old logo, disc MADE IN FRANCE BY PDMC)
Matrix 820 052-2 03 /
TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.33 | 4:40.40 | 33 | 21072
2 | 4:40.73 | 4:26.45 | 21073 | 41067
3 | 9:07.43 | 3:12.52 | 41068 | 55519
4 | 12:20.20 | 3:40.63 | 55520 | 72082
5 | 16:01.08 | 5:37.67 | 72083 | 97424
6 | 21:39.00 | 7:00.38 | 97425 | 128962
7 | 28:39.38 | 2:59.35 | 128963 | 142422
8 | 31:38.73 | 4:19.67 | 142423 | 161914
9 | 35:58.65 | 7:33.63 | 161915 | 195952

And here is
Let It Bleed (6th German Pressing, new logo, disc with clean hub)
Matrix 820 052-2 03 #
TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.33 | 4:45.10 | 33 | 21417
2 | 4:45.43 | 4:27.37 | 21418 | 41479
3 | 9:13.05 | 3:12.30 | 41480 | 55909
4 | 12:25.35 | 3:41.58 | 55910 | 72542
5 | 16:07.18 | 5:36.30 | 72543 | 97772
6 | 21:43.48 | 7:01.25 | 97773 | 129372
7 | 28:44.73 | 2:58.25 | 129373 | 142747
8 | 31:43.23 | 4:20.57 | 142748 | 162304
9 | 36:04.05 | 7:38.63 | 162305 | 196717

As you see they not only tweaked peak levels for LIB but also change cue points and gaps between tracks.

Very similar thing happen to French version of Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out. It is different (not critically, but slightly) form German version.

Those old London discs seem to be pure hell.