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DoomandGloom

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dcba

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DoomandGloom
Charlie was not at his best, there were other drummers who played.

D&G Can you confirm Anton Fig sat on the stool?

No I never saw a basic track cut and could not recall who else drummed but other sources say Fig and Jordan which makes sense. i do remember songs with more than one drum track sometimes one was Charlie. Like I mentioned before they were very liberal with mixing stuff up and seemed to care only about the result not the pieces of the puzzle or who did what. I can say that Anton is a recording dream, he is one of the most powerful and consistent hitters along with Tony Thompson and the crazy guy from John Cougar.

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DoomandGloom

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dcba

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DoomandGloom
Charlie was not at his best, there were other drummers who played.

D&G Can you confirm Anton Fig sat on the stool?

No I never saw a basic track cut and could not recall who else drummed but other sources say Fig and Jordan which makes sense. i do remember songs with more than one drum track sometimes one was Charlie. Like I mentioned before they were very liberal with mixing stuff up and seemed to care only about the result not the pieces of the puzzle or who did what. I can say that Anton is a recording dream, he is one of the most powerful and consistent hitters along with Tony Thompson and the crazy guy from John Cougar.

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gotdablouse

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DoomandGloom

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Mathijs

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DoomandGloom
My two cents. Keith and Mick seemed to be getting on fine on DW. The hiatus the band took may have been more about Charlie's recovery than a feud. Jagger made "Boss" and did a big tour behind it while the Winos did the same, maybe because Watts was not up to working. One thing is certain when Keith's album came out everyone was blown away by the simple production styled a tiny bit like Exile. Still they made Steel Wheels next which was a massive production, we're still waiting for the stripped down version to re-appear from the studio. Too bad they don't have the confidence in themselves that we have.

No, you confuse some dates and facts. According to just about everybody, including the doorman, Jagger and Richards just hated eachother during the DW sessions. The WWIII really started after Jagger's refusal to tour behind Undercover, released on November 7, 1983, and him starting the demo sessions for his solo album in early March 1984. Keith hated Jagger for that decision. For the DW sessions They wheren't on speaking terms, basically avoiding each other, and when they where together they only had heated arguments. Jagger released She's The Boss in February '85, and never toured behind it. The sessions for DW started in early April 85 in Paris. After the sessions ended in late June, they all went to do different things (Dancing in the Street, Bette Midler, Bob Dylan etc). Overdubbing was late July to half August 1985 in New York, mixing in October 1985 in NY. When it came out Jagger hardly promoted it, and again refused to tour, this time due to Charlie's bad health. Jagger's first and luckily only & last solo tour was in 1988.

Mathijs

Yeah it's easy for me to get mixed up it was long ago but I can tell you I never saw any arguments or spite during overdubs and mixing. They never ever talked behind the others back either. Jagger's tour was 1988? I was wrong there but I tell you they were never too far from one another in this period. Dancing In The Streets was being mixed and Keith was doing overdubs with Earl Slick upstairs. Mick was amused by the Dylan fiasco at Live Aide, still they both stayed in NY, close to one another. They love one another, Keith gets too high and says stuff but all The Stones are grateful to Mick for keeping the money flowing. He is very wise with stuff like that, where would Keith be without that?

Yeah a lot of stuff was written on the DW sessions that is simply incorrect and I'm surprised Mathijs is all mixed up on this, let's see :

- They never planned to tour behind UC, there was a veeerrryyy vague rumour that got printed in some magazine that they would cook something up to tour in 1984 but who knows were that came from. Anyway it was never ever brought up by Keith AFAIK. In fact when DW came out he was like, "yeah UC is the best we could do at the time"...as everyone in the press was ranting and raving about how great DW was!

- They did in fact get along rather well during the DW sessions as they all (including Mick) went for dinner together at the "Val d'Isere" restaurant across from the Warwick Hotel pretty much each night and then proceeded to Boulogne. I have first hand reports of that from fans who actually had dinner in the same restaurant and more or less befriended them to the point where they were invited inside the studios and made a little video that was hand delivered to Ronnie who then made promises he didn't keep, but that's another story

- What annoyed Keith is that Mick brought little material to the sessions and did a lot of promo work for STB, there were no recording sessions for PC at anytime during the DW project. His next solo work was for the Ruthless People soundtrack and that single bombed big time.

Now that a few misconceptions have been cleared out I will refer anyone who wants to dig deeper to this most excellent thread with some stellar posts by Rocky Dijon who's analysis of the 83 to 89 period is stunning even to someone like me who lived though it and followed it very closely -> [www.iorr.org] post dated "Date: May 29, 2012 19:46"

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

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StonesTod

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

woody can ape taylor on guitar and has mastered apeing jordan on drums. ok?

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NICOS
Well, if they made it and not released it back then, we would praised it as a bootleg in 2013

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Mathijs

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StonesTod

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

woody can ape taylor on guitar and has mastered apeing jordan on drums. ok?

In some way, I admire you. From my space on earth, I vision you as a horribly overweighed, no education, gun-toting bad neighbourhood unemployed redneck. A true American. But here, on IORR, you are really trying hard to show us your soft side, your animal loving, free-Hank-the-kitten, I love whales side.

I really wonder…

Are you gay?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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StonesTod

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

woody can ape taylor on guitar and has mastered apeing jordan on drums. ok?

In some way, I admire you. From my space on earth, I vision you as a horribly overweighed, no education, gun-toting bad neighbourhood unemployed redneck. A true American. But here, on IORR, you are really trying hard to show us your soft side, your animal loving, free-Hank-the-kitten, I love whales side.

I really wonder…

Are you gay?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

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Rockman
i might be. i've never really given it much thought....People waited an hour for THAT!!!!

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StonesTod

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Mathijs

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StonesTod

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
They did not record drums in NY, only guitar, bass and vocal dubs.

Ron Wood is on drums on Too Rude and Sleep Tonight, all else is Charlie.

Mathijs

It's been said that the future Winos' credit on the sleeve is for backing vocals only but Ivan definitely plays bass on "Hold Back." There's still the matter of Anton Fig who gets a credit on the sleeve and I'm sure he's not singing anywhere. Maybe the other drummers only contribtued percussion. Hard to say. The way the drums are produced makes it not sound like Charlie to many ears. Similar to all of Sly Dunbar's work on UNDERCOVER and of course the damn click track. It gives those two albums a very different feel not only from each other but from the rest of the band's output. STEEL WHEELS has an obvious eighties production sheen, but the drums still sound like Charlie.

Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

woody can ape taylor on guitar and has mastered apeing jordan on drums. ok?

In some way, I admire you. From my space on earth, I vision you as a horribly overweighed, no education, gun-toting bad neighbourhood unemployed redneck. A true American. But here, on IORR, you are really trying hard to show us your soft side, your animal loving, free-Hank-the-kitten, I love whales side.

I really wonder…

Are you gay?

Mathijs

i might be. i've never really given it much thought.

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Mathijs
Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
In some way, I admire you. From my space on earth, I vision you as a horribly overweighed, no education, gun-toting bad neighbourhood unemployed redneck. A true American. But here, on IORR, you are really trying hard to show us your soft side, your animal loving, free-Hank-the-kitten, I love whales side.

I really wonder…

Are you gay?

Mathijs

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hot stuff
I really don't know why they cut the album unless they had too!
...

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
Neville also played bass on Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. To be honest, I don't think Wood really played drums on Too Rude. It just sounds way, way too much like Steve Jordan. But Wood stated he played the drums, so...I think he meant Sleep Tonight, but that's just my opinion.

Mathijs

John Regan's playing bass on something. I always figured it was "Winning Ugly" and/or "Back To Zero." I always figured there were two drummers playing on "Too Rude." My guess was Jordan and Drayton. I believe Alan Rogan said he's playing bass on "Fight."