First off does he, (Was), bring out the Stones real strengths musically, (blues/country/soul etc,.), does he provide the musical direction that they need? I mean I think that "I" could produce a better Stones album then I've heard in years. It would be nice to see/hear a very "basic" Stones album again, one that draws on their true musical strengths.

Another thing I noticed while listening to EOMS today was the dominant roll the keyboards, (piano), played in the overall sound of that album. The same I think can be said for all of the Jimmy Miller produced matieral, (Nicky Hopkins, Ian Stewart). The last piano player to hold that kind of sway with their sound was Billy Preston. So, is Chuck Levell the guy they need? God! please give us another great album of Stones songs. (You know a CD is a "collection" of songs, right? Collection being the defining word for album). Oh! BTW, I see on the new CD version of Exile that they actually give MT joint song writing credits with Mick and Keith for "Ventilator Blues. Nice.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Actually, I loved the production on Voodoo Lounge. The guitars were loud, as a matter of fact the whole album was mixed loud. "I Go Wild" is one of my all-time favorite studio tracks, as it is just guitar/bass/drums--everything we want the latter-day Stones to be. All this to say, I think Don Was is a fan, and he gives us the sound a fan wants to hear. Others may differ.

I think there is a slickness to the Stones sound since SteelWheels that really goes against what the classic earlier Stones sound was all about but i believe that is also true of rock music in general these days.Rock music has been cleaned up and i don't like it.
I like the Stones when they experiment but i feel in Jagger's case in particular they try too hard to incorporate the latest trends into their music e.g rap in Anybody Seen My Baby.
Open G mabe a comment about Jagger inviting Taylor to work with him on some solo work but knowing how much Jagger follows the latest trends i'm sure he would feelthat would be a step backwards.
Also on the subject of country music it is also very noticeable on the Four Flicks documentary how much Mick stressed Don't Stop sounded too country - he wanted it to sound slinky and sexy he said but to me it just ended up sounding more poppy.
Mick wants commercial success primarily and i think he is too willing to compromise his music to achieve it.
I wouldn't blame Don Was or immediately sought a replacement i think he is just following Mick's vision. Wasn't it Mick who complained Don had made Voodoo Lounge too retro sounding?

Just listen to Camouflage...version 1 and you will hear everything that Don & the Glimmers were trying to record during VooDoo.

Lost & Found - The Temptations - You've Got To Earn it - Mowtown 153 366-2

ROCKMAN

I really loved DW's work on Voodoo Lounge.
Steel Wheels was way too cold sounding for me

To me, the final result of an album is the Stones' decision. DW is here to help them and to make proposals, the final decision is up to Mick, Keith and Charlie.
I think that DW ain't worse thant a lot of producers

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Elton John went for a more basic approach n this last two albums and the critical reaction was good.I don't think he would ever recapture his seventies peak though.

If you work with Mick and Keith history lets us hear that ultimately what is released is what they want.
On the Bridges sessions Don Was was in Keiths room recording. Mick was recording in seperate rooms with Danny Saber and at the Dust Brothers house. Like Mick said in Rolling Stone "when we needed a guitar we'd call down to the other room".
Agree with above.......Mick tries WAY TOO HARD to mix in "current" trends. The only problem (aside from Miss You) is that his every attempt since then has been off by 2 years and sounded dated by the time it was released. Mick was attempting to emulate Beck's "Odelay" cd on some BTB songs, but the moment was gone. Mick should know by now that their is a huge difference between fasion and style. It is comical to me that Biz Markie is in a Stones song, which IMO makes it their # 1 worst song ever, for all time. Maybe he did it as a joke, sampling a rapper, since rappers cannot come up with a melody and have to "borrow" them from real musicians. Rap is such shit. American blacks use to make fantastic music.......now all we get is some punk, making belive he is hard as steel speaking some silly rhyme. Anyway............

Don Was, Chris Kimsey, Steve Lillywhite, Andrew Oldham....it really don't matter. The only producer they ever listened to was Jimmy Miller and that didnt last too long.

They DO need somebody in there with them though because The Glimmer Twins do not function anymore. IMO Keith just wants to play at this point and does not want to produce...let someone else handle it.

There is only so far you can take rock n roll. I amazed that Mick often rejects the very sound that people love and so many try to imitate....that "Stones sound"

Milo, NYC
Watching the snow swirl around my head and 'round my feet

I still would like to see Rick Rubin sit in on a session or two. He gets alot of each band that works with him...

As far as recording and mixing an album goes - it ain't easy! Have any of you tried it?

You've got to have someone there who knows what he's doing inside out - but is still not afraid to experiment, and get the best out of the band!

There aren't that many producers out there who could do the right job for the Stones. It's a massive responsibility to record such a famous artist(s).

Regards,

Ian.

Rolling Stones Tribute

Play Rolling Stones

What i never really understood is why they always have a producer? Can't they do it on there own?

Cheers,
Wuudy

Wuudy Wrote:
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> What i never really understood is why they always
> have a producer? Can't they do it on there own?
>
> Wuudy


The Stones need to concentrate on getting the songs right. It would be a mammoth task to look after the recording and mixing as well. In any case, more heads and ears are better!

Regards,

Ian.



Rolling Stones Tribute

Play Rolling Stones

get rid of don was... let the glimmer twins do the producing---and all the writing... just the five stones and bobby keyes---thats it---it will be great....or you can let was overproduce the balls out of it like he did with the other lps he worked on .....maybe the band is just lazy to do it themselves...just my opinion of course but the band needs to get a more raw (NOT RETRO) sound and was won't do that for them....plus he is anti-groove....

STONES JAM!! MICKEYS RULES!!! (burp) NADER IN 2016!!!!! GO GIANTS!!

Lunar, don't you think Rick Rubin can bring out that raw sound you were talking about. Look what he did for The Cult on Electric. The band never sounded better than that disc for sure.Screaming guitars all the way thru.

bassaleman, you may be right about rubin---many good lps to his credit...however, would the band want to work with him!?...or vice-versa!?...rubin may be too strong a personality and could clash with egos of mick and keef.....all concerrned would have very definate ideas of what sound they would want---but please no don was thistime, that is certain!

STONES JAM!! MICKEYS RULES!!! (burp) NADER IN 2016!!!!! GO GIANTS!!

Well, Rubin has worked with Mick to turn out what i think is Mick's best solo disc...Wandering Spirt. So i think they could work together.

the debate is somewhat pointless ain't it? - Was is producing. That's that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-26 23:57 by T&A.

T&A Wrote:
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> the debate is somewhat pointless ain't - Was is
> producing. That's that.


My feelings exactly. But will someone explain why they choose Don Was? Where did he come from...prior to the Dinosaur?

Don Was should be the person that WAS their producer

no - he's a has been

Well, Don Was Was their producer for 2 studio albums and some additional songs, and he probably still Is. Gunface, the track that they recorded with Danny Saber sounds good and not Was-ish. Maybe they should have done some more with him. Let me suggest Brendan O'Brien for the role of producer. He can play additional instruments and join them in the recording room, and listen to what he did for Pearl Jam, Neil Young, etc.
Just please don't bring in John Shanks, then it would all sound bland and overpolished. Mick should maybe write a solo-album together with Mousse-T to fulfil his hipness needs and then return with the Stones to the studio, joined by a roots rock architect like Ethan Johns. I wonder what Charlie would sound like with Steve Jordan positioning the mics, though.

bassaleman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Rubin has worked with Mick to turn out what
> i think is Mick's best solo disc...Wandering
> Spirt. So i think they could work together.

Bassalemen is right: Rubin produced WS, which was a great record. He would be an excellent choice. Was should be history. Why not try George Drakoulas, who produced "Shake your moneymaker" by the Black Crowes?

Edward

PS Don Was produced the last BC album (Lions) that wasn't any good...

I'd say that Don Was WAS the right producer for the Stones. But seriously: A rock song produced as a funk song doesn't hold up in court. The Rolling Stones is not The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Don Was did great job done on VL. To some extend B2B too (But still not even half of it). Flip The Switch is produced very good for instance. Rick Rubin would be great I think. Also the dude who produced GnR's Appetite For Destruction or the bloke who produced Nirvana's In Utero. The guitars of the Stones need to sound "slashy" (Not like Slash. Think the opening riff to SFM on Live Licks). And for crying out loud: Put some distortion on the @#$%&. When you see them playing Brown Sugar today it sounds like there's almost no distortion on Keith's guitar at all. That is also on many tracks on the recent albums. I want distortion.
Back to producing: I also remember reading in the book "Mick And Keith" that for B2B Mick wanted young hot producers to do it. It doesn't matter if the sound is dated two years back or anything. What matters is that the overall sound of the album sounds too mixed, non-coherent and "flat". Let's take the obvious example of the counter part to that: Exile On Main Street has a line in the producing. It all sounds gritty and you can almost feel that heroin is in the studio. B2B does not have that sort of feeling at all. It sounds like it's just a bunch of songs smacked on an album. Maybe Jagger can hear the difference in the producing and say that this and that is good, but I certainly can't on most tracks. If they really wanted to get that back why not just get the album produced and then record it through a shit tape-recorder, just like they did with Jumping Jack Flash. That would be great. I bet you that it would sound like the albums from the golden era all over again. But as you say: Mick doesn't want that. I don't know why he thinks that The Stones have to sound so up to date all the time. I simply don't get it. Look at a song like Already Over Me. A great, great song I think. The only problem with it is the producing. If it was produced like on Some Girls or better yet: Goats Head Soup, it could be a stand-out track on the same level as one of the warponys (I call the songs that are almost warhorses, warponys. Example: Star, Star). It would be in the line of 100 Years Ago, which I think is a very underrated song.
It is time for Keith to stand up to Mick even though he just wants to play as Milo says (In which I agree to some extend). The Glimmer Twins must agree at some point instead of the "I-do-mine-you-do-yours" strategy. If that's the drill for the new album, I think we can expect a lousy produced one. Way too non-coherent, just like B2B. But if they actually get it together, we can expect a very good produced album. With KILLER songs of course. That's a given.

JumpingKentFlash

Amen.

To who???

JumpingKentFlash

to you

Edward





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-27 05:06 by mr edward.

(I'm a little slow today). Thanks man. Well, now that I think about it, it does make sense what I said. Some of it actually sounded quite weird when I wrote it. But seriously: I think everyone can agree that Was needs to get himself together in a major way if he wants to get the new album to sound good.

I also forgot: It's important to get some fresh blood on some positions in the process. You all know that I think Chuck Leavell should be replaced. But he would actually be ok to have if he was turned down a coulpe of notches in the volume. More important is to replace the producer. Don Was sure isn't no George Martin, who could renew himself every time (A VERY good producer for that particular kind of music). The whole "Resting-on-the-laurels" thing is mainly due to everything becoming familiar for The Stones I think. They know the producer. They know the piano player. They know what is gonna happen through the whole process. That's why it is VERY important for bands to replace the producer. It can't be allowed to become too familiar, except if you're as talented as George Martin or whoever. I really can't understand why Don Was doesn't say "no" to the Stones too. Either he thinks that he hasn't done his best to the Stones' music yet, which is a mistake I think, or he simply likes the $$$. To pursue new ways, which is always exciting, you must, and I stress: MUST, get fresh blood on some places. It is essential.

JumpingKentFlash

Don Was was hired by Mick probably because of his success at the time with Bonnie Raitt's album "Nick of Time." I'm sure Mick thought, as he always does, that the hot "producer du jour" (e. g.,Steve Lillywhite, Nile Rodgers, Rick Rubin, Dust Brothers, Wyclef Jean, Neptunes, Bill Laswell/Material, Paul Oakenfold) would give them, or him, a radio hit or at least a dance club hit remix like their other recent clients.
Mick's concentrating solely on contriving hit records (and then them not being hits anyway) has been the greatest detriment to the Rolling Stones from the time of "Emotional Rescue" on in my opinion. It's why the Stones will always have in their catalogue, to their eternal shame, "Anybody Seen My Baby?".
In a way, the success of "Miss You," written by Mick, was a double-edged sword. Yes, it made them hip and current at the time and gave them a #1 hit (their last one), but it opened the door for Mick to try and concoct songs that were "of the moment" from then on. Listen to "Sticky Fingers" and "Let It Bleed." They could come out today. Then listen to "She's The Boss," "Dirty Work," ""Primitive Cool," and "Bridges to Babylon." They are all so incredibly dated that they are unlistenable to anyone but a Rolling Stones fanatic. (The Eighties tripped up some others as well with that "Big Eighties" drum and electronic keyboard sound...the Stones aren't alone; Bruce Sprinsteen, Rod Stewart, David Bowie, to name a few). The Stones used to know better though...they made music that they knew would be unaffected by trends.
That being said, I think that Don Was' sound is the driest, most uninspired that I have ever heard. It is completely workmanlike.
My greatest hopes for a producer would be Rick Rubin or Sheryl Crow (listen to the albums she's produced for herself! More Stonesy than the Stones!) and for Keith's songs, Daniel Lanois.

....and make it double (album, that is). No, make it a toolkit (double album and DVD).

No way! Dont let Lanois anywhere near Keith or The Stones with his atmospheric production. If ya wanna hear something that's dated then start with Neville Bros - Yellow Moon or EmmyLou' Wrecking Ball!

ROCKMAN

Rockman is right. Look what Lanois did to U2. They can't even get more than 3 rockers on a disc now before they take off for the clouds...Boring.

I think that for the type of songs that Keith writes now, Lanois would be perfect. And I don't think Emmylou's "Wrecking Ball" is dated at all...that style permeates a lot of relatively recent records. Listen to Emmylou's "Red Dirt Girl," or Patty Griffin's "Impossible Dream" or Beck's "Sea Change." I could name many more. I like that sound a lot. I think it's a pretty timeless sound, but that's just me.

It's a moot point anyway. They ain't gonna use him. It's Don Was to the end, I'm afraid.