Ok, Graham, I appreciate your sentiments, but this thread wasn't about MT, is was about Ronnie. If you want to engage in a one-on-one debate about the merits of Mr. Taylor with Dr. kahoosier, would you just start a new thread to do so? Hell, I'll start one for you, and quote both of you. "Drs. Logie and Kahoosier Start Piss & Moan Match". OMG, my thread has been hijacked by pissed -off people with degrees!

This is sadly funny. Thanks for killing the discussion, doctor. I can hear Logie now, sounding like Bones on Star Trek: "Dammit, Jim, I'm NOT a doctor, I'm just a Mick Taylor fan."





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-19 04:34 by bassplayer617.

Hey Bassplayer I sent your CD yesterday with LA - You Cant Always Get.. so it should be boarding a plane bound for the US about now.

ROCKMAN

To tomstones, kahoosier et al..

Mick T's strengths are his stinging vibrato & especially his slide guitar work - not many guitarists in the world can play a slide guitar as well as Mick Taylor !

And also, most experienced lead-guitar players can easily copy a seemingly quick/hard solo after they practise it a few times, but you missed the point with great guitarists - it's their ability to create these amazing sounds which is their talent. A kid playing the guitar for 3 years can play a million notes a minute, but it's the way it's structured that seperates the average guitar player versus the brilliant!!

Esky

p.s. forgive me for straying off the topic.

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Bassplayer I sent your CD yesterday with LA -
> You Cant Always Get.. so it should be boarding a
> plane bound for the US about now.
>
> ROCKMAN

Wow, thank you Rockman--you are a good man, and I won't forget you.

Esky, notes can be taught, but feel and emotion are what make one a true musician. That cannot be taught. It is a gift. Every guy who has played in the Stones has had that gift-it is not something you can quantify.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-19 07:25 by bassplayer617.

This topic is all over the place. We started with Woody, then came the MT comments and comparison........which you cannot compare. 2 different people, both extremely talented in their own way. Then we drifted to The band needed MT more than he needed them, which I find to be an insane comment. Mick & Keith were at their peak, they needed a body so they could tour. There were no auditions. Stu suggested Taylor, he showed up and got the job. One could argue that when Woody came on the scene, which behind the scenes was after the 73 tour and up to the IORR sessions the band may have needed him and his energy. Keith was hanging and playing with Ronnie A LOT during that period cause Taylor was out of the loop it would seem. I would never knock MT's talent nor RW's but MT was going thru the motions for half of his massive 5 year stay with the band. Ronnie MAY be all screwed up at this point but he never went flat. Totally involved in Some Girls, ER, Undercover, Steel Wheels, Voodoo. Played some really good guitar in 75,76,78,81,82,89,90,94,95,97,98,99,2002,2003.

30 years as a Rolling Stone VS 5 years. Maybe Woody joined the band after the so called "Golden Era"and some people will latch onto that and say half the albums he played on were shitty. I'm willing to bet that if Woody joined the band as Brians replacement in 1969 things would have turned out pretty much the same, Sticky Fingers, Exile, I think Goats Head would have been better (with a little more punch to it) and I think he would have stayed with the band, like he has for 30 years.

I enjoy the playing MT layed on top of Jagger and Richards songs, but like someone wrote earlier.....MT is only known cause he WAS a Stone. Before that he was just another kid who could good play good blues guitar, and boy were types like that RARE in London AROUND 1969 (YES SARCASIM THERE).

We should all make a pact to agree that we will never ever have another topic that compares MT & RW.

Milo, NYC
Your so respectable

I'm with you, Milo. I'll sign on to no more Ronnie vs MT topics.

Milo - you forgot to mention that Ronnie played some really BAD guitar in 75,76,78,81,82,89,90,94,95,97,98,99,2002,2003.....as well...

Esky

You play the amount of shows he has and your bound to prang some songs here and there. Percentage wise I 'd say he was on the money about 95% of the time. Same goes for the rest of the band and any band that plays live. Mistakes Happen.

Milo, NYC
Never got a lift out of Lear Jets

"and I think that behind his joking exterior there is much depth to him, which he keeps hidden in his very British way."


Back to the topic!

Bassplayer: agree 100%

And may I add that although it is undenyable that rw nowdays does not play the way he did years ago (and I am not saying he can't), and for sure his bum notes ratio is getting worse, still I relate to his solos some of the most intense and moving moments during the last licks tour.

C

As always with this subject : yes, Ronnie is good. see in 1975 !

1975 ? Funny ! 30 years ago lol

MCDDTLC,I see your point, and I am glad that you feel you have the right to disagee with me and others, because as you state at the end, it is your opinion. But Logie, Jesus Christ, excuse me for having an opinion that is different from yours! I certainly never told either of you or other fans of MT to take a piss or accused you of being an idiot. In fact, I pointed out before hand to Milo that someone was going to take way too much offense for us having opinions and try to crucify us. I just never expected the attacks to be so vitriolic and personal. I would not ask you to leave the site for having an opinion. I have enjoyed expressing mine here for several years. I screamed and yelled at no one in my posts as you accuse, merely gave you my thougts, and expressed some happiness at finding people who agreed with me. At every step I agreed that MT plays damn fine guitar, but I just feel so do lots of other people. MCDDTLC mentions a few that are famous but have had some career troubles. The comparison with Patti Scialfa was not at all about intrumental prowess, but about a well known fact that sometimes, success in entertainment is about being with the right people at the right time at the right place.

And Logie, I have an undergrad degree in two languages, so while I agree that my missives were not and were not meant to be literary masterpieces, they are not garbage because we disagree. They were light hearted opinions. I am with you when you imply that neither my two degrees , nor your vaunted three, guarantees that we will not write garbage. Personally I feel that some of the attacks you have made in this thread at least border upon garbage. However, I undeniably in the name of freedom of speech defend the right of you, I, or anybody to write garbage anytime they want to on this site. No one has made you the web master, and BV declines the position of censoring ideas. Having an opinion different than yours, no matter what you may feel, is not an indication of me being intellectually challenged as you accuse.

I have no issue with MT at all, depsite what you think. I do not even know the man, so I find it hard to have issue with him. Though I am strongly beginning to supect that you have issues with disagreements or ideas that conflict with your beliefs. I categorically deny any childish disrespect for Mr. Taylor, contrary to your accusation, even admitting his talent and the fact that he was the right man for the right time. I have paid to attend some of his shows,and will pay again. At the risk of raising your ire further, I did not find him to be the "sweetest guitar player" on the planet as you claim he is. For me, none of the guitarists in this group, past or present, earn that title or can stand ground with Segovia, or even Al Dimeola to risk starting another tirade. Of the times I saw MT with his own band, he was very good on one night, and technically proficient on another but he bordered on sedate, near boring; people in the audience were talking over the tables for Christ's sake. I categorically deny ever having said that he has never progessed or that he has done nothing since leaving the Stones, only that I have not recieved pleasure from it. I always thought I had the right to like what I wanted without being degraded because of my choices. As for any issues with you or people that enjoy MT, I must say again I have no issues with you, do not know you in the least , will not loose sleep over any of this, and cannot imagine in any way how you personalized all of this and became so worked up. I do , again, affirm my right to disagree 100 % with you on the talent or relative historical value of any artist, living or dead. That is part of being inquisitive an open minded. I also have to admit, with some hesitance, I have no desire to get to know you after these attacks.

As for comparing MT to a pub player, I just have to say that both of the last two shows I have seen MT in WERE IN PUBS! I am unaware,in fact of any areana shows that MT has done as a headliner, though I am willing to learn about such an event. What is demeaning about being a Pub Player? I did not know that Robert Johnson filled arenas, yet no one sees that as any comment about his talent. So by saying that MT plays wonderful lead guitar in pubs around the world, where am I wrong? I doubt that he could take offense with that fact being stated and find it a bit strange that you do, Logie. As for my infantile understanding of music, as you put it, I am not on par with even say Mathijs, but I have played and sang for 30 years now, and even earned money now and then doing it. I attended one of the finest Jazz Educations schools in The USA to finish my first college degree, and feel I know more than many in this world. But, that is all moot, I know what I like, no matter what, and that is not based on my knowledge of music, no matter how infantile anyone else may find it. Afgain, I emphasize that by saying this I have not said that I do not like the guitar work of MT. I merely do not find it as earth shaking as some. As I have said earlier, even at his peak, for me, it is a far cry from the sweetest playing on earth as you term it. I am happy for MT that he has that affect on someone, though I would guess that he, or almost any other artist, would find that kind of idolatry a bit discomforting.

I do not, as you say, need to "make points" either with anyone on this board , or anywhere else for that matter. My life is full and I have my friends. I have struck up some interesting relationships on this board and a few of the others over the years. It does not bother me in the least that you like me or not, or anyone else around here for that matter. I am too self assured to need your approval, or anyone else here. I am also arrogant enough to have taken issue with what I feel are your unqualified and unjustified name calling attacks and invitations to leave. Additionally, I find it a bit ironic, to say the least, that someone on this board would attack people for going to a current Stones show by calling them names and questioning their intelligence, when most people that post here will be paying for tickets on the next tour. The man that sponsers and runs this board will spend a good portion of his time travelling from show to show, and maybe I will be lucky enough to run into him again somewhere. To attack Stoens fans here for going to the shows is a bit akin to stepping into the lion's den and asking "who in the Hell stinks like cat piss?"

So, in closing, let me first of all apologize to bassplayer, and to all the other members of the board for taking up this much cyberspace with thsi missive. Logie, I would be happy to discuss any of this over a beer on the next tour, or anyhwere, good heartedly or seriously, as long as you could take some kidding and not get so angry about it all. Lastly, I have to say Logie, whatever pissed you off, in the 48 years of my life, I have never had anyone write to me or about me so hatefully that I have not slept with at some time! So whatever it is, bro, get over it! It is, after all, Only Rock and Roll!!!




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-19 11:59 by kahoosier.

MT plays Slide in Standard Concert Tunings sometimes which is hard to do.
On LAG he plays his single note solo and slide solo in standard concert
tunings on LIV

He is the best slide player ever and best guitar god ever and still can play
today at 56.

<MT plays Slide in Standard Concert Tunings sometimes which is hard to do.>

So did Ronnie. Listen to Hey Negrita, Fool To Cry, You Gotta Move etc. in 1976. Brilliant, funky stuff w std. tuning.

Kahoosier, let me thank you for your lengthy and considered response to my recent ire-filled postings, and in particular, for taking the time to fully explain your stance regarding Mick Taylor. It is fully appreciated, and your position is now clearly understood. As such, I am more than happy to retract any ascorbic comments that I may have aimed in your direction, and at the same time, offer my apologies for any personal offence that I may have aroused.

I can assure you that I am not in the habit of taking off on anybody unless there is a very good reason, and even under such rare circumstances, it is against my nature. In what was a classic case of the straw breaking the camel’s back however, I have to admit to having become increasingly exasperated at the constant cheap jibes being aimed at Mick Taylor, be it about his weight, his appearance, his chosen career path, or in particular, by the fact that he no longer performs before huge audiences. Such inane, stupid insults are not befitting of someone who, to all intents and purposes is a good man, a talented musician, and who, without fail, is always generous to his fans, not only with his time, but more crucially, by attempting to answer the frankest of exchanges with honest answers.

As your name is largely ubiquitous among many of the negative comments that are made on IORR regarding MT, it makes you an easy and obvious target. More so perhaps, because out of the many excellent contributors to this site, you ought really to know better than to entrench your opinions alongside those who seek only to offer insult and disrespect. Too often, we see superb thoughtful contributions in threads being broken up by the so-called point-scoring one-liners. You yourself are not an idiot; far from it in fact, and only by association with such attention seekers, did I ever suspect that you had any pretensions to be.

My attention is quite gladly drawn to the fact that many of your comments exist outside of the general context of your otherwise quite balanced arguments, and should not as such, be taken in isolation. Additionally, I am reassured by the fact that you have actually paid good money to see Mr Taylor, which provides you at least, with some authority on his contemporary guitar playing. Moreover, your tasteful appreciation of really great guitar players would seem to take us both towards the mutually polar opposite direction from those who like to bash this seemingly dying art.

I would like to think too, that albeit through heated exchange, we have at least been able to recognise other common grounds, which hereon, can hopefully enable us to establish a fair degree of mutual respect.

I may even get the first round of drinks in when we catch up.

You are on Logie....first drinks on you when we catch up....

Cheers!

OMG, OMG, OMG--I just heard it again, for the first time in years, thanks to Rockman--July 10, 1975, from 4:11 to 10:36 into the song. It is unfortunate that the recording quality is not as clear as on the previous night, but no matter. It is as good as I remembered it from the LP, and for Ronnie fans, it is a must have.

Thanks, Rockman, for putting me in a time capsule, back to the 70s. Bee-yoo-ti-ful.

Bassplayer glad I could help.

Notice how the song gets longer over the four shows.

9th - 10.55
10th- 12.45
11th- 14.31
13th- 15.06

PLAY LOUD
ROCKMAN

LA FORUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually I think he played very well in 77, 78 and
> 81 too. And later on Keith got so bad.
>
> Bleed on me!


Absolutely agree 100%. Ronnie stoked the boilers in '78 -- it was his year!! When I saw the first Seattle '81 show, Ronnie appeared to be so drunk that he was almost senseless. I was rather piqued at this: if yer gonna be a professional guitarist, why doncha wait 'til after the show to lift a few, not before going on in front of 74K fans who've paid $20.00 (and these are '81 dollars) a ticket.



"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone