Sounded great in Detroit!

He sounded great on Rambler in Minneapolis - watch him on the outro from 9:50. I was thoroughly excited to play this back but come now Ronnie is just filling space here, the transition is riddled with the chords played in opposite directions. It's a shame that this is what now is considered great for The Stones...He can play pedal steel, slide, drums, keyboards and I'm pretty sure a few other instruments I've overlooked... Let's say this is true and he does all this on a pro level. How does this help the Stones fan currently? Taylor also played bass, in fact he played one of the band's most iconic bass parts on TD! Slide is one of Ronnie's strongest points and I enjoy much of it until we get to the latter parts of ADTL where he runs out of ideas. Taylor on the other hand is the world's greatest standard tuning slide guitar player, dead or alive. Just his Ya Ya's solo on LIV puts him there. I am all aboard with saying Ronnie and the band are doing a great job but to compare his double stop gobble wobble with the spontaneity and melodic power Taylor brought just last year shows a sad state of taste

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GratefulFred
but all you defending ronnies terrible playing are unabel to objectively ludge what you hear, because the fact that ronnie is a has been is not something you want to admit. he is literally the worst guitar player i have ever heard since the 2005 tour. up till b2b he was good

Are you bashing him via the you tube clips or did you actually attend any of the zip code 2015 tour ? i went to Pittsburgh and Milwaukee.

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Thrylan
Better than MT blasting through it pushing the "roll" right out of it.

No it isn't.

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71Tele

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Thrylan
Better than MT blasting through it pushing the "roll" right out of it.

No it isn't.

Oversoloing to death, my god just look at dead flowers at marquee, the only thing he does is playing endless solos, horrible.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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71Tele

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Thrylan
Better than MT blasting through it pushing the "roll" right out of it.

No it isn't.

Oversoloing to death, my god just look at dead flowers at marquee, the only thing he does is playing endless solos, horrible.

not to mention he completely ruins SFM on Brussles, ridiculous overplaying.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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71Tele

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Thrylan
Better than MT blasting through it pushing the "roll" right out of it.

No it isn't.

Oversoloing to death, my god just look at dead flowers at marquee, the only thing he does is playing endless solos, horrible.

Yup, Marquee is an outtake, a reject, that is why it has remained unreleased till now. You understand everything recorded is not an example of the artistic and musical statement the band intends? These releases from the trash are just for feeding demand and curiosity, to evaluate them beyond that is misplaced judgement. Personally I rarely listen to outtakes, alternate versions and other junk. The official releases were where their minds were at at the time. I trust a 30 year old Keith over a 71 year old one always.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-13 18:46 by DoomandGloom.

Went to Buffalo this weekend and thought the Stones were terrific. A few bad notes here and there but I thought the band was better than it has been in years. However, I was stunned at how bad Lisa's performance was during Gimme Shelter. I understand that she has been with the band since the Steel Wheels tour but its time for a change. She seemed lost during parts of the song and I just don't think she's capable of hitting the necessary notes anymore.

I agree with what you are saying. I haven't really thought much of Lisa's performances on Gimme Shelter since maybe '97-'98. But weirdly enough, at the Pittsburgh show I attended as well as from many friends and family that were at the Buffalo show Saturday, I heard countless people say that Gimme Shelter, in particular Lisa, sounded amazing and/or that it was their favorite song of the entire show.

Lisa can be a bit hit and miss on GS...I was expecting her to deliver a top class vocal at Glastonbury and don't get me wrong, she did a splendid job but not as good as she used to do. Whether this is just her voice ageing naturally or over working it, I don't know.

I always hold her Paradiso performance on GS as one of her best and that was some years ago now. I wouldn't like to see her dropped from the tours but maybe they could bring in another female to take up the reigns on the big numbers and let Lisa step down?

My gripe is that they keep doing Gimme Shelter. Lisa did great on Night Time Is The Right Time.. If they had her singing a more soulful song I am willing to bet she'd perform better.

I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

If you want to hear Gimme Shelter played right, get your tickets for Keef and the wino's when they come on sale.
Actually scratch that, they might not have enough tickets left for me

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flacnvinyl
I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

She acts out a lot of the songs, complete with weird facial expressions, as if translating for deaf people. YCAGWYW has become unlistenable. And Bernard should know better.

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DeanGoodman

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flacnvinyl
I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

She acts out a lot of the songs, complete with weird facial expressions, as if translating for deaf people. YCAGWYW has become unlistenable. And Bernard should know better.

Am i the only one who skips YCAGWYW . cant stand it. Anti climax.
Loved it in 82' with Keith's guitar so prominent on it..
Just another Jagger waste of time now like Miss You. Just going through the motions. Although Ronnie shines on YCAGWYW but its only a small part of the song.
Second to last song on the set should be a Rocker IMHO

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keefriffhards

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DeanGoodman

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flacnvinyl
I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

She acts out a lot of the songs, complete with weird facial expressions, as if translating for deaf people. YCAGWYW has become unlistenable. And Bernard should know better.

Am i the only one who skips YCAGWYW . cant stand it. Anti climax.
Loved it in 82' with Keith's guitar so prominent on it..
Just another Jagger waste of time now like Miss You. Just going through the motions. Although Ronnie shines on YCAGWYW but its only a small part of the song.
Second to last song on the set should be a Rocker IMHO

What! YCAGWYW is one of the highlights in the show, so good with the choir. I have been waiting for 45 years to hear it with a choir and now...well amazing

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pgarof

What! YCAGWYW is one of the highlights in the show, so good with the choir. I have been waiting for 45 years to hear it with a choir and now...well amazing

The choir is great, but again, it's just a small part of the song. And Lisa does her best to outsing it.

Discussions such as this have labeled "hateful" in the past and led to banning a - we must be careful,

I haven't liked it for a long time. There's a show within a show around her that nobody wants.

IMO Gimme Shelter is now overplayed. Dramatized.

No more tension.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-13 18:25 by powerage78.

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keefriffhards

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DeanGoodman

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flacnvinyl
I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

She acts out a lot of the songs, complete with weird facial expressions, as if translating for deaf people. YCAGWYW has become unlistenable. And Bernard should know better.

Am i the only one who skips YCAGWYW . cant stand it. Anti climax.
Loved it in 82' with Keith's guitar so prominent on it..
Just another Jagger waste of time now like Miss You. Just going through the motions. Although Ronnie shines on YCAGWYW but its only a small part of the song.
Second to last song on the set should be a Rocker IMHO

You're not alone with this. At all. The BG singer histrionics are a real bee in my bonnet. TD and GS have really hit their past due date IMO, in addition to the traditional Stones connoisseur bete-noire, Miss You.
You can add YCAGWYW to that list as well. The times I've seen it live lately I experienced a rush of nostalgia for 2 minutes, followed by several minutes of impatience. Luckily Satisfaction is enough of a blowout to ensure the concert ends on a high note.

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JTHanis
Discussions such as this have labeled "hateful" in the past and led to banning a - we must be careful,

I haven't liked it for a long time. There's a show within a show around her that nobody wants.

I would be shocked if BV banned all of us for discussing backup vocals. There is nothing hateful about it, but I understand what you mean.

During Wild Horses in Nashville Lisa and Bernard slowdanced like it was a highschool prom. So ridiculous. Reminds me of the episode of Crossballs on music where Matt tries to get people to audition to sing and keeps telling them to sing with their hands. They are singing aint no valley high/low whatever that song is... He keeps telling them to 'show him' how high it is /etc. Pure comedy.

Honestly though, Bernard and Lisa do a great job of singing. Thats their job, and they do great at it. Bernard does not over-sing. Lisa is paid to do a great job, so you can't get mad at her for trying to sing the best she can. She is not trying to 'upstage' Mick as some have said. She is just doing the best job she can.

The problem is tone. Gimme Shelter is a vicious song. One of the most intimidating songs in their catalog in terms of the original version. So when she goes out to the runway and singins about rape and murder (evil things) while smiling, it kills the tone of the whole song. She should be distraught while singing these things. If Sam & Dave were doing that song, it would not be smiling ala kareoke.

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DeanGoodman

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flacnvinyl
I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

She acts out a lot of the songs, complete with weird facial expressions, as if translating for deaf people. YCAGWYW has become unlistenable. And Bernard should know better.

The general prominence of Lisa in the mix has long been a sore spot for me with modern Stones live music. While her gestures and pantomimes are a bit irritating, I could overlook all that if she was just singing in more of a supportive role instead of constantly carrying her phrasing beyond what Mick is doing. It draws attention away from the lead vocal and detracts from the overall Stones feel of the songs, imo. I somewhat blame Dave Natale for the too loud in the mix issue and think he must like Lisa a lot or something because he could really help by just turning her down.

I recall Keith talking about how the sidemen like Preston became to prominent in the 70's and it took away from what the real Stones were, I have the same feeling about what Lisa is doing with the vocals these days and am rather shocked that Mick lets it continue.

Overall I don't really blame Lisa, she is probably just doing her very best at any given time. This is really a Mick Jagger issue since we all know he could ask her to tone it down, sing within his phrasing and be a bit less dominating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-13 21:53 by Naturalust.

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crumbling_mice
He can play pedal steel, slide, drums, keyboards and I'm pretty sure a few other instruments I've overlooked....he can sing lead and backing vocals....oh, and he's not bad with a paint brush..

As the old saying goes: "A jack of all trades, master of none".
I like Ronnie as a person (and yes I've met and talked with him several times), but his skills at anything and everything he dabbles in is subpar at best.
I still enjoy the Stones live including warts and all, and it seems that Ronnie has been the biggest wart ever since he joined the band.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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ryanpow

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GratefulFred
but all you defending ronnies terrible playing are unabel to objectively ludge what you hear, because the fact that ronnie is a has been is not something you want to admit. he is literally the worst guitar player i have ever heard since the 2005 tour. up till b2b he was good

Rrrrrrreeallly? Hmmm.

Dude its the other way around. you got to be kidding!!!!

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DeanGoodman

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flacnvinyl
I would far rather complain about the stupid hand motions and cheerleading that are done by Lisa and Bernard. Go listen to Brown Sugar from the Fonda gig and hear the "SUGAR!" repeated forever while Ronnie and Keith play aggressively and low in the mix.

She acts out a lot of the songs, complete with weird facial expressions, as if translating for deaf people. YCAGWYW has become unlistenable. And Bernard should know better.

You need to realise Mick Jagger always mixed the live recordings over the years. he always puts the guitars lower in the mix. over does the vocals IMHO.
So i agree with you both.

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JTHanis
Discussions such as this have labeled "hateful" in the past and led to banning a - we must be careful,

I haven't liked it for a long time. There's a show within a show around her that nobody wants.

Go over my quotes i don't even mention Lisa's name. I never mentioned her in a personal way.
I think she is a lovely woman.
We are just expressing that songs we love like GS and YCAGWYW are being over vocalised. The core of the band is being over shadowed in our humble opinions..

yes Olly, thanks for bringing that up again.. it would be nice to have more people contributing on iorr. sometimes it goes very quite on here. I would embrace new members to join in more on discussions.

When a discussion about Lisa gets merged into a complaint thread just because the majority of the initial posters seemed critical of her it guarantees that there won't be an opportunity for people to praise her either. The message is pretty clear and perhaps this is part of the reason why a board with tens of thousands of registered users has about .001% (or less) of those users actively posting.

Critique is a natural and interesting part of the discussion of any artist but there are some politics involved in doing so actively and honestly here on iorr. Self censure is not everyone's cup of tea. I continue to post because I love the Stones in all their ragged glory but know that posting about the glory is safer than posting about the ragged but thankfully there is plenty of glory to discuss and enjoy.

I understand somewhat the group mentality that can surface on the internet where moderation is not exercised, one only has to look at some other sites where insult and vitriol pervades to know that this site is in another class and league of it own.

your kind of sitting on the fence there Naturalust. Playing devils advocate again are we . say what you mean.
I am sticking my neck out here.
when i started posting on iorr it was very upsetting and all the hostility came from long time regular posters. They have heard it all before and are bored with iorr and they are very dismissive of new faces ( people )
I dont include you in this Naturalust, you treat everyone with the same respect, your contributions are the most exciting and interesting of all the posters on iorr. i just wish you stopped playing devils advocate

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keefriffhards
your kind of sitting on the fence there Naturalust. Playing devils advocate again are we . say what you mean.
I am sticking my neck out here.
when i started posting on iorr it was very upsetting and all the hostility came from long time regular posters. They have heard it all before and are bored with iorr and they are very dismissive of new faces ( people )
I dont include you in this Naturalust, you treat everyone with the same respect, your contributions are the most exciting and interesting of all the posters on iorr. i just wish you stopped playing devils advocate

What on earth do you mean? Surely you mistake my ability to see both sides on an issue with devil's advocacy? Besides the view is better from the top of he fence. But, perhaps I do poke the bear every now and then to see what his reaction will be.

I actually like reading diverse opinions more than some of the "" singular minded fluff. I can't stand when posts take on other posters for what they consider whining or whatever or try to degrade someone's opinion because they haven't been here long or it doesn't tow the party line. There are some really smart and interesting people here and I want to hear what they have to say, regardless of how PC it is on this board. Unfortunately some of those people are no longer with us because they have crossed some not always clear line in the sand.

Anyway I'm glad you are here and engaged!

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keefriffhards

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JTHanis
Discussions such as this have labeled "hateful" in the past and led to banning a - we must be careful,

I haven't liked it for a long time. There's a show within a show around her that nobody wants.

Go over my quotes i don't even mention Lisa's name. I never mentioned her in a personal way.
I think she is a lovely woman.
We are just expressing that songs we love like GS and YCAGWYW are being over vocalised. The core of the band is being over shadowed in our humble opinions..

I'm on your side man. I know people who have "dared" to voice similar opinions and gotten the boot. Unfortunately, there are people here who believe that any criticism is tantamount to a personal attack, which is nonsense.