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Hi gotdablouse,
here is the song:
[www.firstpost.com]
If you spent 10 weeks in a studio there will be many sessions on just ideas with half the band. If that idea gets tossed before you really work on it you can do with it what you want. I understand Make No Mistake started with just Charlie and Keith during Undercover sessions for example.
Mathijs
Because of all that is recorded less than 10% has surfaced. Look at Voodoo Brew and Stew: that's basically one session in Ireland that surfaced. From each and every album the same amount of material is available.
Mathijs
Thanks for posting! Could have turned into something, imo (without that bass, preferrably)...
I can see that but if the songs actually get to a stage that they are named (as titles that would be released some day) and thereby put to 'Stones archieves', I think that might mean that they are not "just ideas", but put more effort put into them. But probably that is not the case here. Perehaps they are just Jagger's ideas - if they are really basics for those songs! - he just fooled with, and didn't want to work further.
But it could be also that the old standard of sharing the credits didn't mean a shit for Jagger in 1992 any longer, no matter how Stones-related the songs originally were. The things were different in Stones camp than when doing SHE'S THE BOSS, when he needed to be more careful...
We are just guessing here. Which is fun.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-02 12:01 by Doxa.
It might be that the songs had no name/were sketches at the time, and that they were identified later by engineers/fans (for archives like Nico's)?
True.
- Doxa
which half?
Okay, thanks for a clarification. I can't recall Keith talking about that.
- Doxa
I guess the half that leaves me feeling hungry
That quote I do remember!
- Doxa
Source?
There's not many 'sources' that are worth something. Karnbach is totally worthless, Elliott only sums up what is available on boots. Nico Zentgraf is well informed.
Mathijs
Absolutely...some of the main riffs are in there...
could be just wishful thinking, though
How
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'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: November 1, 2012 23:10
I didn't know that "Hang on to me tonight" (great song) and 'Sweet thing' were early recorded during Steel Wheels sessions...
from: [www.nzentgraf.de]
29th March - 5th May: Monserrat, West Indies, Air Studios. Producers:
Chris Kimsey & The Glimmer Twins.
(.....)
Hang On (To Me) Tonight I (MJ) -unverified
Sweet Thing I (MJ) -unverified
Note: Parts of the sessions were filmed for upcoming videos and TV specials.
'Sweet Thing' and maybe 'Hang On Tonight' (under title 'Hang On To Me
Tonight') were later used by MJ for his Wandering Spirit soloalbum.
from: [www.nzentgraf.de]
29th March - 5th May: Monserrat, West Indies, Air Studios. Producers:
Chris Kimsey & The Glimmer Twins.
(.....)
Hang On (To Me) Tonight I (MJ) -unverified
Sweet Thing I (MJ) -unverified
Note: Parts of the sessions were filmed for upcoming videos and TV specials.
'Sweet Thing' and maybe 'Hang On Tonight' (under title 'Hang On To Me
Tonight') were later used by MJ for his Wandering Spirit soloalbum.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: November 2, 2012 00:37
Yeah Karnbach broke the news in his 1997 book, he either had access to studio logs or to the actual songs...unfortunately the tapes never circulated (hence the "unverified" ), only the tracks mentioned by D.Hoffmanm as early as 1991 in Das Weissbuch (Giving it Up, Ready Yourself and For Your Precious Love) finally did in 2006 after a cassette once owned by a roadie got converted to .wav. The guy who posted it (think he said he was given the tape by the widow of the roadie) said he had more but he never surfaced again...maybe a few calls were made.
Another unbooted song from these sessions is "Gangster's Moll" but I understand a snippet circulated among a small circle, as it was also mentioned by Hoffmann.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-02 00:44 by gotdablouse.
Another unbooted song from these sessions is "Gangster's Moll" but I understand a snippet circulated among a small circle, as it was also mentioned by Hoffmann.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-02 00:44 by gotdablouse.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: November 2, 2012 00:40
the gangster's moll is from a jeff beck session as part of the ill-fated and ill-conceived primitive cool record. it circulates widely. it's not awful.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: November 2, 2012 00:43
Yeah with Danger Up Ahead but it surfaced much later, like in 2005, I doubt that's the one Hoffmann had in mind in 1991, besides I've heard that snippet mentioned elsewhere but haven't heard it though.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: November 2, 2012 02:37
The real question here is why didn't these songs de-surface.
Why?
Why?
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 2, 2012 10:36
That's interesting if true. Namely, I have alawys thought that The Stones have an agreement that if any Jagger or Richards original is somehow linked to the Rolling Stones sessions, it will be credited as Jagger-Richards (like "Lonely At the Top").
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: November 2, 2012 11:18
Quote
gotdablouse
Yeah with Danger Up Ahead but it surfaced much later, like in 2005, I doubt that's the one Hoffmann had in mind in 1991, besides I've heard that snippet mentioned elsewhere but haven't heard it though.
Hi gotdablouse,
here is the song:
[www.firstpost.com]
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: November 2, 2012 11:21
Quote
gotdablouse
Yeah Karnbach broke the news in his 1997 book, he either had access to studio logs or to the actual songs...unfortunately the tapes never circulated (hence the "unverified" ), only the tracks mentioned by D.Hoffmanm as early as 1991 in Das Weissbuch (Giving it Up, Ready Yourself and For Your Precious Love) finally did in 2006 after a cassette once owned by a roadie got converted to .wav. The guy who posted it (think he said he was given the tape by the widow of the roadie) said he had more but he never surfaced again...maybe a few calls were made.
Another unbooted song from these sessions is "Gangster's Moll" but I understand a snippet circulated among a small circle, as it was also mentioned by Hoffmann.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 2, 2012 11:27
Quote
Doxa
That's interesting if true. Namely, I have alawys thought that The Stones have an agreement that if any Jagger or Richards original is somehow linked to the Rolling Stones sessions, it will be credited as Jagger-Richards (like "Lonely At the Top").
- Doxa
If you spent 10 weeks in a studio there will be many sessions on just ideas with half the band. If that idea gets tossed before you really work on it you can do with it what you want. I understand Make No Mistake started with just Charlie and Keith during Undercover sessions for example.
Mathijs
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 2, 2012 11:29
Quote
Munichhilton
The real question here is why didn't these songs de-surface.
Why?
Because of all that is recorded less than 10% has surfaced. Look at Voodoo Brew and Stew: that's basically one session in Ireland that surfaced. From each and every album the same amount of material is available.
Mathijs
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 2, 2012 11:38
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
gotdablouse
Yeah with Danger Up Ahead but it surfaced much later, like in 2005, I doubt that's the one Hoffmann had in mind in 1991, besides I've heard that snippet mentioned elsewhere but haven't heard it though.
Hi gotdablouse,
here is the song:
[www.firstpost.com]
Thanks for posting! Could have turned into something, imo (without that bass, preferrably)...
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 2, 2012 11:53
Quote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
That's interesting if true. Namely, I have alawys thought that The Stones have an agreement that if any Jagger or Richards original is somehow linked to the Rolling Stones sessions, it will be credited as Jagger-Richards (like "Lonely At the Top").
- Doxa
If you spent 10 weeks in a studio there will be many sessions on just ideas with half the band. If that idea gets tossed before you really work on it you can do with it what you want. I understand Make No Mistake started with just Charlie and Keith during Undercover sessions for example.
Mathijs
I can see that but if the songs actually get to a stage that they are named (as titles that would be released some day) and thereby put to 'Stones archieves', I think that might mean that they are not "just ideas", but put more effort put into them. But probably that is not the case here. Perehaps they are just Jagger's ideas - if they are really basics for those songs! - he just fooled with, and didn't want to work further.
But it could be also that the old standard of sharing the credits didn't mean a shit for Jagger in 1992 any longer, no matter how Stones-related the songs originally were. The things were different in Stones camp than when doing SHE'S THE BOSS, when he needed to be more careful...
We are just guessing here. Which is fun.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-02 12:01 by Doxa.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 2, 2012 12:03
Quote
DoxaQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
That's interesting if true. Namely, I have alawys thought that The Stones have an agreement that if any Jagger or Richards original is somehow linked to the Rolling Stones sessions, it will be credited as Jagger-Richards (like "Lonely At the Top").
- Doxa
If you spent 10 weeks in a studio there will be many sessions on just ideas with half the band. If that idea gets tossed before you really work on it you can do with it what you want. I understand Make No Mistake started with just Charlie and Keith during Undercover sessions for example.
Mathijs
I can see that but if the songs actually get to a stage that they are named (as titles that would be released some day) and thereby put to 'Stones archieves', I think that might mean that they are not "just ideas", but put more effort put into them. But probably that is not the case here. Perehaps they are just Jagger's ideas - if they are really basics for those songs! - he just fooled with, and didn't want to work further.
But it could be also that the old standard of sharing the credits didn't mean a shit for Jagger in 1992 any longer, no matter how Stones-related the songs originally were.
We are just guessing here. Which is fun.
- Doxa
It might be that the songs had no name/were sketches at the time, and that they were identified later by engineers/fans (for archives like Nico's)?
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 2, 2012 12:05
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
That's interesting if true. Namely, I have alawys thought that The Stones have an agreement that if any Jagger or Richards original is somehow linked to the Rolling Stones sessions, it will be credited as Jagger-Richards (like "Lonely At the Top").
- Doxa
If you spent 10 weeks in a studio there will be many sessions on just ideas with half the band. If that idea gets tossed before you really work on it you can do with it what you want. I understand Make No Mistake started with just Charlie and Keith during Undercover sessions for example.
Mathijs
I can see that but if the songs actually get to a stage that they are named (as titles that would be released some day) and thereby put to 'Stones archieves', I think that might mean that they are not "just ideas", but put more effort put into them. But probably that is not the case here. Perehaps they are just Jagger's ideas - if they are really basics for those songs! - he just fooled with, and didn't want to work further.
But it could be also that the old standard of sharing the credits didn't mean a shit for Jagger in 1992 any longer, no matter how Stones-related the songs originally were.
We are just guessing here. Which is fun.
- Doxa
It might be that the songs had no name/were sketches at the time, and that they were identified later by engineers/fans (for archives like Nico's)?
True.
- Doxa
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: November 2, 2012 12:34
@KRiffhard - thanks, but the snippet I was referring to is the "Gangster's Moll" one that Hoffmann must have heard before writing his book in 1991 and its existence was confirmed to me last year from another source, it was short and of poor quality apparently though.
There are two versions of "Danger up Ahead" from that "Jeff Beck Sessions" boot, the first one is actually very interesting because you can hear Mick playing the song to the musicians, possibly for the first time as he calls out all the chords, and then you can see what they do with it. It's possible the more advanced one you linked to is in fact the second run through. AFAIK we'd never had such insight into a Stones session, even in those where Mick shouts the chords, like a lot of the 77/78 outtakes, you can tell they've been played a few times before.
Talking about solo sessions, AFAIK, the only boots we have are :
- 1987 : Mick / Danger up Ahead/Gangster's Moll - surfaced around 2005
- 1987 : Keith /Talk is Cheap sessions - surfaced around
Nothing else ever surfaced right?
@Mathijs - where did you read about "No Mistake" starting during the "UC sessions" ? In Elliott's new book possibly ? I have the first two versions from 1990 and 2002 and it wasn't mentioned but since he got Christ Kimsey's help for the third one maybe there is some fresh info in there.
There are two versions of "Danger up Ahead" from that "Jeff Beck Sessions" boot, the first one is actually very interesting because you can hear Mick playing the song to the musicians, possibly for the first time as he calls out all the chords, and then you can see what they do with it. It's possible the more advanced one you linked to is in fact the second run through. AFAIK we'd never had such insight into a Stones session, even in those where Mick shouts the chords, like a lot of the 77/78 outtakes, you can tell they've been played a few times before.
Talking about solo sessions, AFAIK, the only boots we have are :
- 1987 : Mick / Danger up Ahead/Gangster's Moll - surfaced around 2005
- 1987 : Keith /Talk is Cheap sessions - surfaced around
Nothing else ever surfaced right?
@Mathijs - where did you read about "No Mistake" starting during the "UC sessions" ? In Elliott's new book possibly ? I have the first two versions from 1990 and 2002 and it wasn't mentioned but since he got Christ Kimsey's help for the third one maybe there is some fresh info in there.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: November 2, 2012 16:56
i hope Keef has not heard danger Up ahead
jeroen
jeroen
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: November 2, 2012 17:33
The Jagger-Richards credit for songs reworked outside the band ended after Keith was listed as co-writer on "Lonely at the Top" on SHE'S THE BOSS. Keith was quite outspoken about this at the time (pretty sure the 1986 Musician cover story goes over this). Going forward if they took an idea and reworked it solo they no longer share a credit. The Jagger-Richards credit from that point on was reserved for Stones projects only.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
mrD
()
Date: November 2, 2012 17:49
somehow Danger up Ahead reminds me of 1/2 a loaf. Or is this just me?
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: November 2, 2012 17:52
Quote
mrD
somehow Danger up Ahead reminds me of 1/2 a loaf. Or is this just me?
which half?
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 2, 2012 17:56
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The Jagger-Richards credit for songs reworked outside the band ended after Keith was listed as co-writer on "Lonely at the Top" on SHE'S THE BOSS. Keith was quite outspoken about this at the time (pretty sure the 1986 Musician cover story goes over this). Going forward if they took an idea and reworked it solo they no longer share a credit. The Jagger-Richards credit from that point on was reserved for Stones projects only.
Okay, thanks for a clarification. I can't recall Keith talking about that.
- Doxa
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: November 2, 2012 17:58
Pretty sure it's the issue I noted with the five of them on the cover and the quote about if Mick tours solo, Keith will slit his throat. Happy times.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
mrD
()
Date: November 2, 2012 17:58
Quote
StonesTodQuote
mrD
somehow Danger up Ahead reminds me of 1/2 a loaf. Or is this just me?
which half?
I guess the half that leaves me feeling hungry
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 2, 2012 18:01
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Pretty sure it's the issue I noted with the five of them on the cover and the quote about if Mick tours solo, Keith will slit his throat. Happy times.
That quote I do remember!
- Doxa
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Vocalion
()
Date: November 2, 2012 18:19
Quote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
That's interesting if true. Namely, I have alawys thought that The Stones have an agreement that if any Jagger or Richards original is somehow linked to the Rolling Stones sessions, it will be credited as Jagger-Richards (like "Lonely At the Top").
- Doxa
If you spent 10 weeks in a studio there will be many sessions on just ideas with half the band. If that idea gets tossed before you really work on it you can do with it what you want. I understand Make No Mistake started with just Charlie and Keith during Undercover sessions for example.
Mathijs
Source?
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: November 2, 2012 18:39
Already asked him above, still waiting ;-)
I wonder if there isn't some confusion with the fact that "Make No Mistake" is rumoured to have been played at the Toshiba Japan sessions for the Stripped studio tracks...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-02 18:43 by gotdablouse.
I wonder if there isn't some confusion with the fact that "Make No Mistake" is rumoured to have been played at the Toshiba Japan sessions for the Stripped studio tracks...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-02 18:43 by gotdablouse.
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 2, 2012 20:56
Quote
gotdablouse
@Mathijs - where did you read about "No Mistake" starting during the "UC sessions" ? In Elliott's new book possibly ? I have the first two versions from 1990 and 2002 and it wasn't mentioned but since he got Christ Kimsey's help for the third one maybe there is some fresh info in there.
There's not many 'sources' that are worth something. Karnbach is totally worthless, Elliott only sums up what is available on boots. Nico Zentgraf is well informed.
Mathijs
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: November 2, 2012 21:56
It's really pleasant to talk with you about outtakes, hidden gems and sessions!
I would like to ask you some questions:
- the song 'Breakin' was recorded during Undercover, Dirty Work or Talk is cheap sessions? Do you think it is an early version of 'How i wish'? I'm not very sure...
- don't you think that 'You got it made' is a great song and it's a shame to keep it close in the archives?
- Is it true that Keith's song 'High or Low', recorded during BTB sessions, should have been published on a Sheril Crows album?
Many thanks!
I would like to ask you some questions:
- the song 'Breakin' was recorded during Undercover, Dirty Work or Talk is cheap sessions? Do you think it is an early version of 'How i wish'? I'm not very sure...
- don't you think that 'You got it made' is a great song and it's a shame to keep it close in the archives?
- Is it true that Keith's song 'High or Low', recorded during BTB sessions, should have been published on a Sheril Crows album?
Many thanks!
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: November 2, 2012 21:57
Quote
KRiffhard
It's really pleasant to talk with you about outtakes, hidden gems and sessions!
I would like to ask you some questions:
- the song 'Breakin' was recorded during Undercover, Dirty Work or Talk is cheap sessions? Do you think it is an early version of 'How i wish'? I'm not very sure...
Absolutely...some of the main riffs are in there...
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: November 2, 2012 22:04
Quote
MunichhiltonQuote
KRiffhard
It's really pleasant to talk with you about outtakes, hidden gems and sessions!
I would like to ask you some questions:
- the song 'Breakin' was recorded during Undercover, Dirty Work or Talk is cheap sessions? Do you think it is an early version of 'How i wish'? I'm not very sure...
Absolutely...some of the main riffs are in there...
could be just wishful thinking, though
Re: 'Hang on to me tonight' and 'Sweet Thing': from SW sessions?
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: November 2, 2012 22:10
Quote
StonesTodQuote
MunichhiltonQuote
KRiffhard
It's really pleasant to talk with you about outtakes, hidden gems and sessions!
I would like to ask you some questions:
- the song 'Breakin' was recorded during Undercover, Dirty Work or Talk is cheap sessions? Do you think it is an early version of 'How i wish'? I'm not very sure...
Absolutely...some of the main riffs are in there...
could be just wishful thinking, though
How
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