Tell Me :
Talk
If you'd expand people would not be paying the big bucks anymore, so you would earn less as overhead will grow. If you decrease the amount of tables you will have to increase prices so less people will be able to afford it, while the chef is not accepting less salary.
This is all just standard simple rules that are applied for years in any industry.
Why do you think that for the last tours many shows wheren't sold out, but had the second tier blanketed? Because you earn more when you sell 20.000 tickets for 100 bucks than 35000 tickets for 50 bucks. More income, less expenses.
Mathijs[/i][/qu
Wrong. Faulty economics. And short-sided business practice. With 20,000 fans at 100 bucks you get 2,000,000 dollars. With 40,000 fans at 50 bucks you get the same, plus double the ancillary profits from T-Shirt, memorabilia, food and beverages, etc. And I know for a fact that these are the only areas that allow promoters and stadiums (and most bands) to extract any profit from concerts nowadays...the peripherals are the profit margin. So your reasoning is faulty.
[/quote]
Well: they sold 2 times 22.000 tickets for an average price of 400 pounds, while they did not sell out the Amsterdam Arena (65.000 capacity) at 100 euro's in 2006.
So, they did the targeting perfectly: they knew exactly there are 44.000 morons like me willing to pay 400 pounds average for a ticket + flight + hotel + disgusting English beer.
My feeling is that if they added a third or fourth gig it would not have been a sell out, unless they lowered the prices. But then you have to hire to O2 another night+personell+security+ whatever more.
I think they did the maths just fine: two shows in London at 400 pounds a ticket will gross the largest amount of money. Then we will do two shows in the US, including a pay per view, as PPV is big in the U.S. and just very limited in Europe.
Mathijs[/quote]
I love all the attempts at analysis without someone actually identifying what the elasticity of demand is for them to perform. Obviously they've employed people to figure that out and it's worked, they're basically sold out.
Sucks for the rest of us mind you.
What sucks to in my opinion is that even the bad seats did cost 400 pounds -I understand you want to sell the pit and the best seats for a premium, but that you want to keep the prices for the rafters somewhat lower. That does not seem to be true now, as tickest for second tier in the back are just as expensive as for block A2.
Mathijs
I totally agree with you. While it is indefensible from the perspective of their legacy, I do think that the tour that will evolve out of this next year will be where they make up for this debacle. Ticket prices won't be cheap, but probably more inline with what they did for ABB.
Maybe even throw in a couple of big freebies, Central Park, Hyde Park etc.
I think they're just trying to make most of the money upfront, which is only a problem if you're not patient.
Sorry that was meant for jazzbass. I've had too much whine, red
happy daze and beaver all in a single day! the best stones day ever!!!
These are the Happy Days!
Now all we need is Father Knows Best and we'll be all set.... Of course, I'm sure there are a few fathers here who certainly think they know best.... Myself, I know best never to become a father.
there's no fuss...but there has been a fonz sighting...
Sorry lem, but I think you're wrong. There are only two price levels for Newark:
$114.80 and $813.00
I think that the majority are going to be $813.00
Youre correct, They are, but I bet you those tickets will be around 1% of what tickets are available, if the cheapest (£95) tickets in London are anything to go by.
It looks semi respectable on paper if they keep the lowest priced tickets affordable. However, theres been less in that category with each successive tour. That trend seems to be continuing. I dont recall reading too many (or any) posts from people on these forums who managed to get £95 tickets for London.
The VIP tickets arent $800 for Newark, by the way, thats the category 1 tickets (the VIP pit tickets will be far more than that - as the ones in London were about $1800). Most of the tickets for London were in the £400 price range so its a fair bet that most in Newark will be in that equivalent range ($750) as well.
the average price for these London shows seems to be around the £300 mark (about $500). By contrast, the average ticket price on the last tour was $167. An increase of about 300% in five years.
Thats not quite correct, Kurt. Theres a variety of price ranges.
Now we know what the F stands for!
F-UCK OFF!
Now we know what the F stands for!
F-UCK OFF!
This, dear Gazza, is one of the most impressive statements I ever read here on this board! You describe the inner satisfaction that sets in after a brave, but nonetheless tough decision.
It's like saying "no" to an addiction.
It's like saying "no" to a behaviour of the band which cannot be described in other words as "shameless exploitation of our love for them".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-20 03:04 by alimente.
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Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 20, 2012 00:38
Quote
MathijsQuote
Turd On The Run
The Rolling Stones are the Fat Duck of the entertainment industry.
Mathijs
Mathijs are you serious, 9 months to get a seat in these restaurants? I would say it's time to expand at any cost!
If you'd expand people would not be paying the big bucks anymore, so you would earn less as overhead will grow. If you decrease the amount of tables you will have to increase prices so less people will be able to afford it, while the chef is not accepting less salary.
This is all just standard simple rules that are applied for years in any industry.
Why do you think that for the last tours many shows wheren't sold out, but had the second tier blanketed? Because you earn more when you sell 20.000 tickets for 100 bucks than 35000 tickets for 50 bucks. More income, less expenses.
Mathijs[/i][/qu
Wrong. Faulty economics. And short-sided business practice. With 20,000 fans at 100 bucks you get 2,000,000 dollars. With 40,000 fans at 50 bucks you get the same, plus double the ancillary profits from T-Shirt, memorabilia, food and beverages, etc. And I know for a fact that these are the only areas that allow promoters and stadiums (and most bands) to extract any profit from concerts nowadays...the peripherals are the profit margin. So your reasoning is faulty.
[/quote]
Well: they sold 2 times 22.000 tickets for an average price of 400 pounds, while they did not sell out the Amsterdam Arena (65.000 capacity) at 100 euro's in 2006.
So, they did the targeting perfectly: they knew exactly there are 44.000 morons like me willing to pay 400 pounds average for a ticket + flight + hotel + disgusting English beer.
My feeling is that if they added a third or fourth gig it would not have been a sell out, unless they lowered the prices. But then you have to hire to O2 another night+personell+security+ whatever more.
I think they did the maths just fine: two shows in London at 400 pounds a ticket will gross the largest amount of money. Then we will do two shows in the US, including a pay per view, as PPV is big in the U.S. and just very limited in Europe.
Mathijs[/quote]
I love all the attempts at analysis without someone actually identifying what the elasticity of demand is for them to perform. Obviously they've employed people to figure that out and it's worked, they're basically sold out.
Sucks for the rest of us mind you.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 20, 2012 00:48
Quote
treaclefingers
Sucks for the rest of us mind you.
What sucks to in my opinion is that even the bad seats did cost 400 pounds -I understand you want to sell the pit and the best seats for a premium, but that you want to keep the prices for the rafters somewhat lower. That does not seem to be true now, as tickest for second tier in the back are just as expensive as for block A2.
Mathijs
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:02
Quote
MathijsQuote
treaclefingers
Sucks for the rest of us mind you.
What sucks to in my opinion is that even the bad seats did cost 400 pounds -I understand you want to sell the pit and the best seats for a premium, but that you want to keep the prices for the rafters somewhat lower. That does not seem to be true now, as tickest for second tier in the back are just as expensive as for block A2.
Mathijs
I totally agree with you. While it is indefensible from the perspective of their legacy, I do think that the tour that will evolve out of this next year will be where they make up for this debacle. Ticket prices won't be cheap, but probably more inline with what they did for ABB.
Maybe even throw in a couple of big freebies, Central Park, Hyde Park etc.
I think they're just trying to make most of the money upfront, which is only a problem if you're not patient.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
mgguy
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:06
Easy, you travel to the US to watch the PPV. LOLQuote
GazzaQuote
mgguy
I would venture to say that all of you who refuse to purchase tickets, can't get tickets, can't afford tickets, can't travel, etc. will ALL watch the PPV. You won't be able to kkep yourselves from not watching, even in protest.
The PPV will only be shown in the US.
So, try again.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
charlie62
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:06
Quote
charlie62
I don't whine endlessly, far from it. If you think what The Stones have done is morally right well that says a lot about you. Thank God it .appears you are in the minority.
Sorry that was meant for jazzbass. I've had too much whine, red
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:11
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
JustinQuote
treaclefingersSounds like a triumph to me!Quote
corriecas
i saw crossfire hurricane yesterday, and it was a disappointment, stops at 1982......
I don't understand...people hate "Vegas Stones" and everything that happened after 1982...so why all of a sudden do they need to see that part of their career in a documentary in order for that documentary to be considered good? Everyone loves the early 70's to death and here they made a documentary specifically about it and people still hate it? Fickle.
As the Fonz once said, "EXACTAMUNDO!"
happy daze and beaver all in a single day! the best stones day ever!!!
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:13
Quote
StonesTodQuote
treaclefingersQuote
JustinQuote
treaclefingersSounds like a triumph to me!Quote
corriecas
i saw crossfire hurricane yesterday, and it was a disappointment, stops at 1982......
I don't understand...people hate "Vegas Stones" and everything that happened after 1982...so why all of a sudden do they need to see that part of their career in a documentary in order for that documentary to be considered good? Everyone loves the early 70's to death and here they made a documentary specifically about it and people still hate it? Fickle.
As the Fonz once said, "EXACTAMUNDO!"
happy daze and beaver all in a single day! the best stones day ever!!!
These are the Happy Days!
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:13
sorry i dont have time to dig through all the posts - are the tickets really expensive for the london shows?
the ones for new york are $95 and $114.the vip tickets are $800 and something but thats not the majority of the seats.
$95 and $114 is pretty reasonable for an act as big as the stones in 2012, i dont see what all the fuss is about.
the ones for new york are $95 and $114.the vip tickets are $800 and something but thats not the majority of the seats.
$95 and $114 is pretty reasonable for an act as big as the stones in 2012, i dont see what all the fuss is about.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
stonesnow
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:13
Quote
StonesTodQuote
treaclefingersQuote
JustinQuote
treaclefingersSounds like a triumph to me!Quote
corriecas
i saw crossfire hurricane yesterday, and it was a disappointment, stops at 1982......
I don't understand...people hate "Vegas Stones" and everything that happened after 1982...so why all of a sudden do they need to see that part of their career in a documentary in order for that documentary to be considered good? Everyone loves the early 70's to death and here they made a documentary specifically about it and people still hate it? Fickle.
As the Fonz once said, "EXACTAMUNDO!"
happy daze and beaver all in a single day! the best stones day ever!!!
Now all we need is Father Knows Best and we'll be all set.... Of course, I'm sure there are a few fathers here who certainly think they know best.... Myself, I know best never to become a father.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:16
Quote
lem motlow
$95 and $114 is pretty reasonable for an act as big as the stones in 2012, i dont see what all the fuss is about.
there's no fuss...but there has been a fonz sighting...
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:18
When did The Stones Jump the Shark?
That bankers only private show?
That bankers only private show?
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
charlie62
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:40
Good point. Jovan sponsorship in 81 left a bad smell
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Kurt
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:41
Quote
lem motlow
sorry i dont have time to dig through all the posts - are the tickets really expensive for the london shows?
the ones for new york are $95 and $114.the vip tickets are $800 and something but thats not the majority of the seats.
$95 and $114 is pretty reasonable for an act as big as the stones in 2012, i dont see what all the fuss is about.
Sorry lem, but I think you're wrong. There are only two price levels for Newark:
$114.80 and $813.00
I think that the majority are going to be $813.00
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:46
they've been charging top dollar for their tickets for years,all this outrage is almost comical.-"they've gone to far this time" "i'm staying home,that'll show em"
i paid $300 apiece[face value] at the mgm in vegas in 1994.a friend of mine saw them in hawaii at a private show for pepsi cola bottlers,but NOW they've sold out and you guys have had enough?
not the quickest gathering of people i guess but the board seems to have at least finally realised that mick alone doesnt set the prices and keep most of the money, so thats some progress.
i paid $300 apiece[face value] at the mgm in vegas in 1994.a friend of mine saw them in hawaii at a private show for pepsi cola bottlers,but NOW they've sold out and you guys have had enough?
not the quickest gathering of people i guess but the board seems to have at least finally realised that mick alone doesnt set the prices and keep most of the money, so thats some progress.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:46
Quote
lem motlow
sorry i dont have time to dig through all the posts - are the tickets really expensive for the london shows?
the ones for new york are $95 and $114.the vip tickets are $800 and something but thats not the majority of the seats.
$95 and $114 is pretty reasonable for an act as big as the stones in 2012, i dont see what all the fuss is about.
Youre correct, They are, but I bet you those tickets will be around 1% of what tickets are available, if the cheapest (£95) tickets in London are anything to go by.
It looks semi respectable on paper if they keep the lowest priced tickets affordable. However, theres been less in that category with each successive tour. That trend seems to be continuing. I dont recall reading too many (or any) posts from people on these forums who managed to get £95 tickets for London.
The VIP tickets arent $800 for Newark, by the way, thats the category 1 tickets (the VIP pit tickets will be far more than that - as the ones in London were about $1800). Most of the tickets for London were in the £400 price range so its a fair bet that most in Newark will be in that equivalent range ($750) as well.
the average price for these London shows seems to be around the £300 mark (about $500). By contrast, the average ticket price on the last tour was $167. An increase of about 300% in five years.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:47
Quote
KurtQuote
lem motlow
sorry i dont have time to dig through all the posts - are the tickets really expensive for the london shows?
the ones for new york are $95 and $114.the vip tickets are $800 and something but thats not the majority of the seats.
$95 and $114 is pretty reasonable for an act as big as the stones in 2012, i dont see what all the fuss is about.
Sorry lem, but I think you're wrong. There are only two price levels for Newark:
$114.80 and $813.00
I think that the majority are going to be $813.00
Thats not quite correct, Kurt. Theres a variety of price ranges.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 20, 2012 01:48
Quote
mgguyEasy, you travel to the US to watch the PPV. LOLQuote
GazzaQuote
mgguy
I would venture to say that all of you who refuse to purchase tickets, can't get tickets, can't afford tickets, can't travel, etc. will ALL watch the PPV. You won't be able to kkep yourselves from not watching, even in protest.
The PPV will only be shown in the US.
So, try again.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Hurristone
()
Date: October 20, 2012 02:11
Quote
jamesfdouglas
Anyone who bought a ticket for these shows; You are a sucker and a fool and I would say it right to your face, and laugh.
Now we know what the F stands for!
F-UCK OFF!
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
TeddyB1018
()
Date: October 20, 2012 02:12
So far I'm probably going to be in New York when the Stones are, and am not planning to go (as if anyone cares) and I could arrange for good tickets (actually the seats the people on the Stones list get in an arena are more "good" than "great"). But most all of them still have to pay the same $800 a ticket, as would I. I don't begrudge them but I don't have thousands of dollars in pocket change lying around either. It's not so much a qualitative judgement, as seeing it is more the point than expecting it be transformative, like it was in '69 or '72. I just am not moved enough to go for it. Maybe, as Max says, I'll cave but I figure just to watch the PPV, which is seeeing it in some form. I'm sure they'll be bootlegs of it for anyone who isn't able to get the feed.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Hurristone
()
Date: October 20, 2012 02:12
Quote
jamesfdouglas
Rock and roll is still out there. Just not at a Rolling Stones Royal Gathering of Idiots.
Now we know what the F stands for!
F-UCK OFF!
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
yorkshirestone
()
Date: October 20, 2012 02:27
Added up today that i've seen The Maccabees, Mark Lanegan Band The Cribs, Jack White, Pearl Jam, Fred Wesley, Walter Trout and still have tickets in hand for the rest of the year for Jack White (again), Alabama Shakes, Courteeners, Bad Manners and The Black Keys. If you add that into Lion King and Shrek in the west end with te kids AND an afternoon at te olympics in August it still weighs in at less than £406 i could have got a fairly poor Stones ticket for this morning. That's my entire face value entertainment outlay for 2012. While some of that may not be to the taste of all of this board, cash is tight and there's trade offs. Would i have traded that lt off for half way up te upper tier at te o2 for one Stones gig? No. I may be destined to have only seen the Stones 11 times since 1990 at Maine Road, but good luck to those who can a. Afford 406 quid for a ticket and b. got one, i'm comfortable with what i spent my dispsable income on in 2012.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: October 20, 2012 02:55
Quote
Gazza
the strange thing is that I feel just as pleased with myself that I was finally able to say 'no' after all this time as a lot of other people are about the fact that they got tickets!
This, dear Gazza, is one of the most impressive statements I ever read here on this board! You describe the inner satisfaction that sets in after a brave, but nonetheless tough decision.
It's like saying "no" to an addiction.
It's like saying "no" to a behaviour of the band which cannot be described in other words as "shameless exploitation of our love for them".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-20 03:04 by alimente.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
Honestman
()
Date: October 20, 2012 03:18
Those who will go
Those who won't
HMN
Those who won't
HMN
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
tipps
()
Date: October 20, 2012 03:27
Is Gazza going? Myself I cannot afford 1000 bucks forget it, no one is worth that amount! I sure wont dish out 200 $ for a nose bleed seat, 100 yes, which by the way is what nb seats are here in Vancouver.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
bleedingman
()
Date: October 20, 2012 04:08
This situation is a great example of people with disposable income disposing of it. I love these guys but not that much. Tomorrow morning I will put "Shine A Light" on so as to bring me to my senses should I be tempted to crack and buy Facebook tickets. Hey Keith - You can keep the money, Pal!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-20 04:15 by bleedingman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-20 04:15 by bleedingman.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
svendborg
()
Date: October 20, 2012 04:19
These ticket prices are a @#$%& disgrace. They really don't need anymore money, so why don't they sell the tickets at reasonable prices.
And after 7 years out of the studio, they come up with 2 new tracks and yet another greatest hits collection. This must really be the end...and what a sad end :-(
And after 7 years out of the studio, they come up with 2 new tracks and yet another greatest hits collection. This must really be the end...and what a sad end :-(
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
matsumoto33
()
Date: October 20, 2012 04:24
They don't care. They never have. Why is everybody so surprised?
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
bleedingman
()
Date: October 20, 2012 04:31
Speaking for myself, I'm not the least bit surprised. Just as they shouldn't be surprised to know that I haven't paid for one of their releases since I discovered torrents. What comes around goes around.
Re: it literally turns my stomach
Posted by:
TippyToe
()
Date: October 20, 2012 04:47
Mick wil borrow a few lines from John Lennon for his banter with the audience at the upcoming shows:
"Those of you in the cheap seats clap your hands; the rest of you just rattle your jewelry!"
"Those of you in the cheap seats clap your hands; the rest of you just rattle your jewelry!"
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