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otonneau
They tested him... and re-tested him... and applied different valid methods... and he got caught. Now believe what you wish! No point in prolonging this.

No he wasnt caught. If so ...then present the evidence... it is simple.

I backed Floyd "The liar" Landis when he said he was innocent... then they presented evidence... Of course I didnt see it, but when the proper people say it, what are you I going to do? So I believe today... and today I say "FK Floyd the Liar Landis"... and that is NOT based on what country he is from.... it is based on evidence....

I didnt bring this topic back up... I dont want to prolong it... but I will as long as people wanna hunt witches based on hearsay evidence.... Where ever a light burns even dimmly for the falsely accuused... when ever a person is being unjstly persecuted ....when ever there is .....you know the deal.

Npapolian had the shortest ,which was cosidered :sehorse: He did steroids as well-I don't think he lost a testicle-very relatd-At least Lance adnitted tunlike the egomandic Clemens. What a con joke -these bastards portray with exception of melky

Speaking of Neapolitan ice cream I am just glad thatasteroid didnt smash in to Earth today... and I am gald to see AJ Allmendinger is back to work tonight..and I hope Dale Earnhardt Jr will be OK.

Lance WAS CAUGHT! He tested positive at the 2001 Tour de Suisse. He then paid a load of money to the UCI to "buy new testing equipment" and the positive results vanished ?!? Are you kidding me? When they went back and tested samples with new,improved techniques, 6 of his samples WERE POSITIVE. Lastly, in 09 @ 2010, his red blood cell level didn't lower during the course of the TDF. Absolutely impossible. Among the multitude of charges is a mountain Of DIRECT EYEWITNESS accounts. That is not HEARSAY!

Al Capone was only caught for tax evasion. Do you really believe that's the extent of his crimes? The law by nature is always trailing behind and or helping the gangsters until the dam gives way and all the secrets come out.

What is being revealed quite clearly to me is that the guys in power on the UCI aided and abetted LA as it served the overall aim of profit and prestige. One of the most damning pieces of testimony is when Hamilton asked Lance if he wasn't scared of being caught. LA said, "No, if the tests were legit, they would have found indicators of cancer in my samples", and he would have been diagnosed way earlier.

It is all hearsay... There is no evidence... Proven liars are not good witnesses... Reading so many zealously accusing the whole sport of being dirty is just odd. If it is all so riggged and dirty top to bottom then why do you even watch it... why do you care about it so much? Do you all juts love to hate on something? Why not move on if you hate it so much.

I used to like wathcing boxing until I realized it was rigged and dirty.... Today you will never read a post of mine about Boxing because it is a sport rigged and dirty, top to bottom, it is not worth my efforts. I wouldnt waste time even saying it... except to make a point, like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-14 02:52 by Max'sKansasCity.

Sometimes it seems the only reason people build someone is to have the sick pleasure of tearing them down... That is sick.

Absolutely NOT TRUE! None of the testimony is "hearsay"! It is direct eyewitness testimony from plenty of people who weren't caught themselves.

Hearsay is- Mary told me that Joe saw your girl kissing Bob at a bar. Direct testimony is Mary telling me she saw Bob and my girl making out. This, however is George Hincapie and a ton of others saying "I doped along with LA." BIG DIFFERENCE! NOT HEARSAY!

Furthermore, I bought a bike and lost 50 lbs because of LA. I found out about cycling and fell in love with the sport. Its beautiful, honorable and heroic. I believe that the sport is clean now and still love it.

I take no joy or schadenfreude in this whole thing. LA was, to me, a kind of replacement for Keith in a lot of ways as I changed my outlook on life as someone in their 30's and not hanging onto that internal 15 year old so much anymore. The sport is about health and the joy of exercise. LA took a big dump on that idea. The worst of it all seems to me that LA as a person is a jerk. A mean, nasty, school yard bully. Frankly, as corny as it may sound, I feel personally betrayed. Believe me, I've defended LA so many times to so many people. He was my last Santa Claus in a lot of ways.

Again... He is innocent until proven guilty by the proper authority, and that is the ICU... the U.S. agency running this witch hunt is just a wanna be. Furthermore if/when it turns out that organisation's chief executive Travis Tygart runs for some public office, using this as his platform, it will show his true motives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-14 03:48 by Max'sKansasCity.

btw- Congrats on losing 50 pounds riding... that is impressive

wtf is this topic doing here,bv step in please.

ah yeah... Step in... then step right 1-2 3-4

Everybody do the

And by... do the Rhumba... we do not mean... do steroids!

Max, if you'd stop living for TV and the internet...if you really care about Lance Armstrong and the other cyclists...the very factual story in the New York Times might open your eyes and make you less snippy with some of the posters here who actually have feelings.

Lance Armstrong was a fine athlete who blew it. I like to think he is sincere about the work he's done for cancer but you can't always beat the law and the rules of the game no matter what nice things you do. Sincerity really does count in this world.

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stonesrule
Max, if you'd stop living for TV and the internet...if you really care about Lance Armstrong and the other cyclists...the very factual story in the New York Times might open your eyes and make you less snippy with some of the posters here who actually have feelings.

Lance Armstrong was a fine athlete who blew it. I like to think he is sincere about the work he's done for cancer but you can't always beat the law and the rules of the game no matter what nice things you do. Sincerity really does count in this world.

You would be better off ignoring my posts... and I will ignore yours... and we will get along fine... and yeah I am still kind of pissed about how you started trouble with me last time, and when you got an appropriate reply you reported me to get me banned. I have since avoided you, please do the same.

If you dont want trouble then dont start trouble.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-14 07:09 by Max'sKansasCity.

Still!

What the f**k has Lance Armstrong got to do with the Rolling Stones and what makes him earn a place on this board?

Hasn't he showed enough to the world of sport what cheating is.


There's been many threads that has been closed or moved into similar thread topicwise that is.

But this thread is still around and I wonder why!
So as some other person wrote above. Step in BV and make this board a Rolling Stones board for god sake!

Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!

Armstrong, innocent? Yeah, sure, they all are....

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Stoneage
Armstrong, innocent? Yeah, sure, they all are....

...until proven guilty. Personally I like that policy, maybe some dont.


They had tests, he took them, he passed them. End of stroy.

Why after all of this time it is such a huge deal is beyond me.
Why this person in charge of the investiagtion doesnt go find
some real problems to solve is beyond me. Why they have spent
million of Dollars on this is beyond me. Is this really the best
use of time and money? There are real problems in the world... this issue isnt one of them.


Eventually we will see the real motives of the person in charge of this witch hunt.

Max, you clutch at two straws: Armstrong not having been tested and the UCI not having (yet) taken away the trophies. These straws are not strong enough because

1) Armstrong has been scientifically proven to have doped (on top of perfectly valid testimonies)

2) the UCI is NOT a juridicial entity, it is just a private entity that allocates trophies. JUSTICE has spoken. Whether the UCI decides to strip Armstrong of his titles or not is irrelevant; they would only be given THEIR private opinion, which is LESS, not MORE valid than that of the legally mandated, independent and sovereign body - the USADA. In fact, the UCI would disgrace itself if it chose not to follow justice.

The UCI did very wrong things under the direction of the crook Verbrguggen and are now pondering two options: to acknowledge Armstrong's guilt is also to acknowledge their own corrupt attitude towards him, which is highly embarassing and even opens the possibility of much needed inquiries agains them, but to ignore the USADA's judgement would be so outrageous that it is hardly conceivable.

Man, you let the liar Landis make a fool of you for years - do you REALLY want that to happen to you again? Are you not tired of being taken in by liars and cheats? Why not trust in your own justice system and, if you want to have a well-grounded opinion, READ THE REPORT? It is public! If you get yourself to reading it, I would be very, very surprised that you retain all that trust in Armstrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-14 10:57 by otonneau.

When it comes to cheating (which doping is), I think it is wiser to come clean when you have the evidence stacking up against you. Otherwise you will have to live with a lie the rest of your life. I have seen some sad cases when athlethes are stuck with claiming their absolute innocense twenty or thirty years after their conviction. It's quite a beast of burden to live with.

As to why it matters; punishing cheat and theft, which are wrong in themselves and detrimental to others MATTERS. Nothing matters more. Surely that is obvious to you? There are bigger issues in the world, but if you want to live in a just society you simply cannot say "oh well, one man cheated for years, made millions, took everybody in, but what does it matter? It's yesterday's news!" That is NOT acceptable. If I wrecked your property and was convicted five years later, you'd want me to pay back and you'd be pretty pissed off if someone told you "look buddy, we have more serious matters on our hands, just get over it, OK?" Same thing here.

The one tragic aspect of Armstrong's case is that he stirred such huge hope and enthusiasm, it was the dream story of fighting and overcoming cancer. I'll tell you something: I've also read Amstrong's books, both of them, and enjoyed them. In them, he argued that after all the chemical treatments he received while ill, he could not possibly consider doping, and I was so moved by the story and the book that I actually believed it - for a while.

I can perfectly imagine how painful it must be to give up such wonderful story. To be honest, this is what makes Armstrong very, very, despicable in my view. Ulrich, Basso, Indurain etc have cheated, it's very wrong, they should be punished, but I am willing to accept as extenuating circumstances that they were caught in a culture, that they were not strong willed enough to say "no" because what else were they to do with their lives? These guys have no diploma, little prospect of a decent job outside cycling, and the prospect of going from hero to zero must be very difficult to face. But Armstrong did more than that. That two-face liar built up a saint's image, stirred enormous admiration, became an example and took everybody in. In my view, you are one of those who find it so painful to give up that great story that you just cannot - for now. Well, that kind of attitude is what makes me really resent Armstrong.

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otonneau
Max, you clutch at two straws: Armstrong not having been tested and the UCI not having (yet) taken away the trophies. These straws are not strong enough because

I dont clutch at anything... I post to stand up against a witch hunt. period.

Unreal that some people view this as so important... when there is REAL shit going on in the world, but taking down Lance Armstrong is the top of the list.

If Armstrong was from Europe this would not even be discussed here

Oh no it's not the top of the list - politics and economics being off-limit on this board I cannot number my priorities. Armstrong comes maybe at number 25 000 on that list. But if we discuss Armstrong, then let's do it rationally and face facts. Now, I could return your point: there is so much shit going on, so many people being cheated and robbed - of their home, their jobs, their basic rights, their life saving - it's amazing that it comes top of the list to defend a rich cheat, dont't you think?

Read my posts and they will show you that it's clearly not an EU vs US issue in my view. Paradoxically, you are accusing an AMERICAN justice body and trusting a EUROPEAN body (the UCI), but you accuse ME of being anti-American? Come on now, you think the AMERICAN USADA has an agenda against Armstrong but the EUROPEAN UCI is fair and square with him? But you think I, as a european who clearly stated that I believe EU riders of the period to be as doped as Armstrong, is anti-USA, but you don't suppose for a second that you, who accuse me, might have a pro-USA bias???

If the ICU ever says it is so, then I will accept it with no sadness, no apology. I am willing to stand up for men and women who say they are innocent and pass tests. Period... I dont give one fk what an angry witch hunting mob says.

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otonneau
Oh no it's not the top of the list - politics and economics being off-limit on this board I cannot number my priorities. Armstrong comes maybe at number 25 000 on that list. But if we discuss Armstrong, then let's do it rationally and face facts. Now, I could return your point: there is so much shit going on, so many people being cheated and robbed - of their home, their jobs, their basic rights, their life saving - it's amazing that it comes top of the list to defend a rich cheat, dont't you think?

This has nothing to do with you and nothing to do with me.

Sad sad sad... re-read your posts and mine, and perhaps you'll see where the witch-hunt is: in Armstrong accusing everybody of plotting his downfall and being jealous and whatnot (for which he has NO evidence), and NOT in the USADA presenting a detailed and argued 1000 pages report.

As for our conversation, you are accusing me of being anti-US and a witch-hunter, while I've not accused you of anything and just tried to present arguments which you have not discussed in the least detail. Who has a cool, calm, collected attitude here? I don't think it is you whose fonts are growing ever wider and who answer arguments with photographs...

....he should change his name ta Loueee and play with his horn ...



ROCKMAN