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keefriffhard4life
still uncertain if i want to drop the $60+ dollars for the MUSICAL HISTORY boxset and i still need to get the 4 cd LAST WALTZ boxset

No contest for me: A Musical History is a feast and a worthwhile investment--especially if, like me, you're missing any of the albums (Stage Fright, Northern Lights, and Islands, in my case). Meanwhile, the Hawks material--with and without Ronnie Hawkins--smokes and burns. I was aghast at how powerful they were before the Dylan alliance, and in a way completely different from everything that followed. In between, there are many treats. The extended "Long Distance Operator" alone goes a long way toward justifying the set.

Meanwhile, The Last Waltz box seems a washout. They got it right the first time and the only thing added that really ups the value is the complete Dylan set--and I say that as a huge fan of virtually all the guests. "Less was more" on this one.

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keefriffhard4life

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Gangster-of-love
Robertsons voice sounded terrible on all his solo projects. You can hear clearly that this guy can't sing.

he can sing. his voice has just gotten worse since the 70's for lack of using it

Ever check out his solo stuff? This one's from his eponymous 1987 album. Not really a distinctive sound, but passable, because his songwriting and musicianship are so strong.

When reading an autobiography gumboot you always have to remember that you are reading one perspective and there are always two to three sides of the story. I do not know enough of the dynamics of the Band except the Levon and Robbie had a major falling out. Robbie seemed to have become the Mick Jagger of the Band making himself out to be the star or so it would seem.

Levon was the best singer in the group one of the greatest most original, purely American voices of the rock and roll era.

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stonehearted

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keefriffhard4life

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Gangster-of-love
Robertsons voice sounded terrible on all his solo projects. You can hear clearly that this guy can't sing.

he can sing. his voice has just gotten worse since the 70's for lack of using it

Ever check out his solo stuff? This one's from his eponymous 1987 album. Not really a distinctive sound, but passable, because his songwriting and musicianship are so strong.

yes i have 2 of his solo albums. he sounds fine for a guy who goes years without singing.

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Rev. Robert W.

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keefriffhard4life
still uncertain if i want to drop the $60+ dollars for the MUSICAL HISTORY boxset and i still need to get the 4 cd LAST WALTZ boxset

No contest for me: A Musical History is a feast and a worthwhile investment--especially if, like me, you're missing any of the albums (Stage Fright, Northern Lights, and Islands, in my case). Meanwhile, the Hawks material--with and without Ronnie Hawkins--smokes and burns. I was aghast at how powerful they were before the Dylan alliance, and in a way completely different from everything that followed. In between, there are many treats. The extended "Long Distance Operator" alone goes a long way toward justifying the set.

Meanwhile, The Last Waltz box seems a washout. They got it right the first time and the only thing added that really ups the value is the complete Dylan set--and I say that as a huge fan of virtually all the guests. "Less was more" on this one.

i bid on a like new last waltz boxset on ebay before i saw your post. don't know if i'll win though. i still am waiting to find a musical history a little cheaper than $55

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keefriffhard4life

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Rev. Robert W.

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keefriffhard4life
still uncertain if i want to drop the $60+ dollars for the MUSICAL HISTORY boxset and i still need to get the 4 cd LAST WALTZ boxset

No contest for me: A Musical History is a feast and a worthwhile investment--especially if, like me, you're missing any of the albums (Stage Fright, Northern Lights, and Islands, in my case). Meanwhile, the Hawks material--with and without Ronnie Hawkins--smokes and burns. I was aghast at how powerful they were before the Dylan alliance, and in a way completely different from everything that followed. In between, there are many treats. The extended "Long Distance Operator" alone goes a long way toward justifying the set.

Meanwhile, The Last Waltz box seems a washout. They got it right the first time and the only thing added that really ups the value is the complete Dylan set--and I say that as a huge fan of virtually all the guests. "Less was more" on this one.

i bid on a like new last waltz boxset on ebay before i saw your post. don't know if i'll win though. i still am waiting to find a musical history a little cheaper than $55

Sorry to sound so negative on The Last Waltz set, it's just that, of the two, I would think it's by far the lesser priority. The Neil Young/Steve Stills/Paul Butterfield/Ringo/Clapton, et. al. blues jams are pretty mind-blowing--if not quite everyday listening.

Two other overlooked "Band" albums that can be had inexpensively: Moondog Matinee, has bonus material, including "Didn't It Rain," "Shakin'," and "What Am I Livin' For" (Levon vocals); and "Cryin' Heart Blues" (Rick vocal) that stands with anything those guys sang--ever. It's baffling that those tracks weren't part of the original release.

And Dylan's oft-forgotten Planet Waves is, remarkably, the only official studio album he ever did with them. A different sound from The Basement Tapes or the '66 tour of course, but appropriately free-wheeling and ornery. The album's a fascinating lead-in to Blood on the Tracks and prime contender for most underrated of Dylan's career.

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Rev. Robert W.

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keefriffhard4life

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Rev. Robert W.

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keefriffhard4life
still uncertain if i want to drop the $60+ dollars for the MUSICAL HISTORY boxset and i still need to get the 4 cd LAST WALTZ boxset

No contest for me: A Musical History is a feast and a worthwhile investment--especially if, like me, you're missing any of the albums (Stage Fright, Northern Lights, and Islands, in my case). Meanwhile, the Hawks material--with and without Ronnie Hawkins--smokes and burns. I was aghast at how powerful they were before the Dylan alliance, and in a way completely different from everything that followed. In between, there are many treats. The extended "Long Distance Operator" alone goes a long way toward justifying the set.

Meanwhile, The Last Waltz box seems a washout. They got it right the first time and the only thing added that really ups the value is the complete Dylan set--and I say that as a huge fan of virtually all the guests. "Less was more" on this one.

i bid on a like new last waltz boxset on ebay before i saw your post. don't know if i'll win though. i still am waiting to find a musical history a little cheaper than $55

Sorry to sound so negative on The Last Waltz set, it's just that, of the two, I would think it's by far the lesser priority. The Neil Young/Steve Stills/Paul Butterfield/Ringo/Clapton, et. al. blues jams are pretty mind-blowing--if not quite everyday listening.

Two other overlooked "Band" albums that can be had inexpensively: Moondog Matinee, has bonus material, including "Didn't It Rain," "Shakin'," and "What Am I Livin' For" (Levon vocals); and "Cryin' Heart Blues" (Rick vocal) that stands with anything those guys sang--ever. It's baffling that those tracks weren't part of the original release.

And Dylan's oft-forgotten Planet Waves is, remarkably, the only official studio album he ever did with them. A different sound from The Basement Tapes or the '66 tour of course, but appropriately free-wheeling and ornery. The album's a fascinating lead-in to Blood on the Tracks and prime contender for most underrated of Dylan's career.

hoping i can get this last waltz boxset pretty cheap. i hope eventually the musical history box drops a bit in price. i have only seen 2 on ebay sell for less than $50

i already own planet waves

I remember reading on a Band fan site years ago that at Danko's memorial service,
Robertson come in through the side door of the chapel (or wherever it was), gave his eulogy, then exited through the same side door and left; meaning he didn't want to deal with Helm who was also there. They did say that Robertson gave a very moving eulogy.
Too bad they only seemed to patch things up on Helm's deathbed, but at least they did.

The Band
Crazy Horse
Pearl Jam
Buffalo Springfield
Paul Butterfield Blues Band

Example of 'The Band'-bands that's Great....

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GumbootCloggeroo
I just finished reading Levon Helm's book. A great read. Sadly, I lost some respect for Robbie because of it.

I lost some respect for Robbie too, but Levon also came down a bit in my estimation. In trashing Robbie's reputation he harms himself and the Band's legacy as well. He tried to to distance himself from some of the bitchier passages when promoting the book, but by then it was too late.

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tomk
I remember reading on a Band fan site years ago that at Danko's memorial service,
Robertson come in through the side door of the chapel (or wherever it was), gave his eulogy, then exited through the same side door and left; meaning he didn't want to deal with Helm who was also there. They did say that Robertson gave a very moving eulogy.
Too bad they only seemed to patch things up on Helm's deathbed, but at least they did.

i dont know if they really patched things up, as i was told helm was pretty out of it on his deathbed when robbie said his peace with not a single word back from levon.if levon were coherent he might have strangled robbie.

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TheGreek

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tomk
I remember reading on a Band fan site years ago that at Danko's memorial service,
Robertson come in through the side door of the chapel (or wherever it was), gave his eulogy, then exited through the same side door and left; meaning he didn't want to deal with Helm who was also there. They did say that Robertson gave a very moving eulogy.
Too bad they only seemed to patch things up on Helm's deathbed, but at least they did.

i dont know if they really patched things up, as i was told helm was pretty out of it on his deathbed when robbie said his peace with not a single word back from levon.if levon were coherent he might have strangled robbie.

I've heard that account as well--that Helm was so far gone that Robbie's presence didn't mean anything, or that it was some kind of stunt on his part. That's hard to buy. I'm imagining Robertson, who, after decades of being trashed publicly and privately by Levon, had the courage and decency to contact Sandy and Amy Helm. And they in turn, not merely accepting his regards/wishes/whatever, not simply passing them on, but actually inviting Robbie to come from California to sit with Levon in his final hours. Whatever Levon's state by the time Robertson arrived, it's hard for me to see how the gesture wasn't in some way heartfelt and noble. It certainly must've seemed sincere to those who loved Levon the most.

I loved Levon's work and visited a number of the Rambles, but I must say that I think he was Keith to Robbie's Mick. And over the years, he spent a lot of time venting essentially at the fact that Robbie had ended the Band and moved on--that he wouldn't stick with the gang, that he'd gone showbiz. And it seemed to me that for all the appeal of the "man's man"/authentic/true-rock 'n roll-traditionalist thing that Keith and Levon share--the qualities that made Mick and Robbie idolize them--that time has reflected well on the more pragmatic, more stable partners who provided the framework in which all that rugged individualism could thrive.

Robertson led The Band and he's just a whole different animal from the rest of them. Richard (or perhaps Rick) may have been the heart, Levon may have been the balls, but Robbie was in every way the head--with all the ambition and the ego entailed in that. And the responsibility. And, in this case, most of the rewards. Robertson harnessed the soul and guts of those guys to make that music. I wish for the others that songwriting had been more equitably distributed, but it's very, very difficult to imagine that without that central driving force and vision, that those songs and recordings would've happened at all. Certainly nothing whatsoever about Rick or Levon's subsequent solo careers suggests that they had anything like the creative ambition that made The Band what it was.

Picks for the day: "Long Distance Operator," "Bessie Smith," Ain't No More Cane," "Unfaithful Servant," "Out of the Blue"

One more pick of the day: Levon Helm, Keith Richards and Rick Danko with Scotty Moore and D.J. Fontana, "Duece and A Quarter" from All The King's Men (Sweetfish Records, 1997)

Great shots from the sessions in Levon's barn:

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slew
When reading an autobiography gumboot you always have to remember that you are reading one perspective and there are always two to three sides of the story.

Here's Robbie telling his side of the story (maybe just a little bit) in a recent interview:

[blog.masslive.com]

Usually live they let him sing into a dead mic, he didn't take a tone in the band as far as backupsinging goes. Listen to his solo album if you want to know how he sounds.

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Rev. Robert W.

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TheGreek

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tomk
I remember reading on a Band fan site years ago that at Danko's memorial service,
Robertson come in through the side door of the chapel (or wherever it was), gave his eulogy, then exited through the same side door and left; meaning he didn't want to deal with Helm who was also there. They did say that Robertson gave a very moving eulogy.
Too bad they only seemed to patch things up on Helm's deathbed, but at least they did.

i dont know if they really patched things up, as i was told helm was pretty out of it on his deathbed when robbie said his peace with not a single word back from levon.if levon were coherent he might have strangled robbie.

I've heard that account as well--that Helm was so far gone that Robbie's presence didn't mean anything, or that it was some kind of stunt on his part. That's hard to buy. I'm imagining Robertson, who, after decades of being trashed publicly and privately by Levon, had the courage and decency to contact Sandy and Amy Helm. And they in turn, not merely accepting his regards/wishes/whatever, not simply passing them on, but actually inviting Robbie to come from California to sit with Levon in his final hours. Whatever Levon's state by the time Robertson arrived, it's hard for me to see how the gesture wasn't in some way heartfelt and noble. It certainly must've seemed sincere to those who loved Levon the most.

I loved Levon's work and visited a number of the Rambles, but I must say that I think he was Keith to Robbie's Mick. And over the years, he spent a lot of time venting essentially at the fact that Robbie had ended the Band and moved on--that he wouldn't stick with the gang, that he'd gone showbiz. And it seemed to me that for all the appeal of the "man's man"/authentic/true-rock 'n roll-traditionalist thing that Keith and Levon share--the qualities that made Mick and Robbie idolize them--that time has reflected well on the more pragmatic, more stable partners who provided the framework in which all that rugged individualism could thrive.

Robertson led The Band and he's just a whole different animal from the rest of them. Richard (or perhaps Rick) may have been the heart, Levon may have been the balls, but Robbie was in every way the head--with all the ambition and the ego entailed in that. And the responsibility. And, in this case, most of the rewards. Robertson harnessed the soul and guts of those guys to make that music. I wish for the others that songwriting had been more equitably distributed, but it's very, very difficult to imagine that without that central driving force and vision, that those songs and recordings would've happened at all. Certainly nothing whatsoever about Rick or Levon's subsequent solo careers suggests that they had anything like the creative ambition that made The Band what it was.

Picks for the day: "Long Distance Operator," "Bessie Smith," Ain't No More Cane," "Unfaithful Servant," "Out of the Blue"

very well said ,with the exception that robbie had anything to do with the songwriting .that was helm ,danko, manuel,and hudson .not to diss robbie but really his contribution was playing lead guitar!

let me go on to say that robbie in the last waltz said that he was pulling the plug because he did not want to end up dead (wha wha tears are falling ).now in the interview from 2011 he said that they all agreed to take a break and then regroup down the road.way to go robbie a little distortion of the facts or what ?this is robbie in a nutshell all about himself .what a class act mr hollwood is as he is affectionatly known in the hudson valley!

Condemning Robertson for choosing his own fate is silly. Did the band collaborate or did Robbie write everything?? An old story but one has to look at The Band album without RR to see it's entirely a cover album, a plain answer as to who was the catalyst in their glory days... As Elton says, "Levon likes his money," heck he's still got his hand out from the great beyond. All sh*t talk aside Helm was one of the greatest performers we'll ever know.... Godbless the grumpy bastard.

The Band had a structure unlike other bands....no defined leader. Each song was rehersed with each getting a turn to sing to see what fit. The song was either assigned to one or spilt like The Weight.

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DoomandGloom
Condemning Robertson for choosing his own fate is silly. Did the band collaborate or did Robbie write everything?? An old story but one has to look at The Band album without RR to see it's entirely a cover album, a plain answer as to who was the catalyst in their glory days... As Elton says, "Levon likes his money," heck he's still got his hand out from the great beyond. All sh*t talk aside Helm was one of the greatest performers we'll ever know.... Godbless the grumpy bastard.

there were THREE band albums post robbie .so it is rubbish that they needed robbie to function .jimmie weider was such a extradonary guitar slinger .(much better in my book)(the guy that replaced robbie on the six string)

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TheGreek

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DoomandGloom
Condemning Robertson for choosing his own fate is silly. Did the band collaborate or did Robbie write everything?? An old story but one has to look at The Band album without RR to see it's entirely a cover album, a plain answer as to who was the catalyst in their glory days... As Elton says, "Levon likes his money," heck he's still got his hand out from the great beyond. All sh*t talk aside Helm was one of the greatest performers we'll ever know.... Godbless the grumpy bastard.

there were THREE band albums post robbie .so it is rubbish that they needed robbie to function .jimmie weider was such a extradonary guitar slinger .(much better in my book)(the guy that replaced robbie on the six string)

Yes they made 3 albums in a sans-Robertson incarnation. But really, who talks about them? The majority of the songs are covers. The albums aren't exactly classics. Much like The Velvet Underground made a record after Lou Reed left but who cares, right? (edit: bad example, as it was just Doug Yule that continued with that album) Or The Doors' album post-Morrison? Nothing there, really. In The Band's defense, they did make their 3 post-Robertson albums many years after Islands so it's not like they were riding some sort of wave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-16 21:48 by GumbootCloggeroo.

I was always certain that you could pick out RR on backing vocals on Helpless from TLW...now, having read this thread I'm going to go back and really listen, maybe it's just Danko and MAnuel

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GumbootCloggeroo

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TheGreek

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DoomandGloom
Condemning Robertson for choosing his own fate is silly. Did the band collaborate or did Robbie write everything?? An old story but one has to look at The Band album without RR to see it's entirely a cover album, a plain answer as to who was the catalyst in their glory days... As Elton says, "Levon likes his money," heck he's still got his hand out from the great beyond. All sh*t talk aside Helm was one of the greatest performers we'll ever know.... Godbless the grumpy bastard.

there were THREE band albums post robbie .so it is rubbish that they needed robbie to function .jimmie weider was such a extradonary guitar slinger .(much better in my book)(the guy that replaced robbie on the six string)

Yes they made 3 albums in a sans-Robertson incarnation. But really, who talks about them? The majority of the songs are covers. The albums aren't exactly classics. Much like The Velvet Underground made a record after Lou Reed left but who cares, right? (edit: bad example, as it was just Doug Yule that continued with that album) Or The Doors' album post-Morrison? Nothing there, really. In The Band's defense, they did make their 3 post-Robertson albums many years after Islands so it's not like they were riding some sort of wave.

It was The Band led by Levon that placed themselves in motel lounges. Jimmy Weider is a great guitarist, I saw those shows. The Band was certainly entitled to keep their name and carry on without R.R. In hindsight history Robbie offered them songs if they'd change their name back to whatever it was before... The Hawks??? Maybe he should have been less stubborn and involved himself as a producer/writer. It's an age old story songwriters verses great performers and what they contribute. David Gilmore, Levon Helm, Mick Taylor et et et. A creative environment is difficult to define. Robertson knew from being Dylan's sidekick the value of publishing and song-writing royalties while the others were drunk with their own great talents, but neglecting the business side completely. Everyone in The Band had great opportunities from The Last Waltz. Movies, record deals were laid at their feet yet they were unable to make careers. Of course the greatest money maker would have been a full reunion within a few years of the film, Robertson refused and the others resented it, citing the fact that Robbie was comfortable $$$$ and they were playing in the gutter. Maybe we would have all been thrilled if he had but like Lennon he held his ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-16 22:23 by DoomandGloom.

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TheGreek

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DoomandGloom
Condemning Robertson for choosing his own fate is silly. Did the band collaborate or did Robbie write everything?? An old story but one has to look at The Band album without RR to see it's entirely a cover album, a plain answer as to who was the catalyst in their glory days... As Elton says, "Levon likes his money," heck he's still got his hand out from the great beyond. All sh*t talk aside Helm was one of the greatest performers we'll ever know.... Godbless the grumpy bastard.

there were THREE band albums post robbie .so it is rubbish that they needed robbie to function .jimmie weider was such a extradonary guitar slinger .(much better in my book)(the guy that replaced robbie on the six string)

maybe you should check the writing credits of those 3 albums. mainly covers. robertson has 2 solo albums, self titled and how to become clairvoyant, that while different in style are much better than any of those 3 albums by THE BAND that he wasn't part of.

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talkcheap
Usually live they let him sing into a dead mic, he didn't take a tone in the band as far as backupsinging goes. Listen to his solo album if you want to know how he sounds.

or listen to the 4 songs by THE BAND he sings lead on

I think Robbie gets a bad press for his decision to call it a day. As I see it, he basically had to carry the Band for a number of years when quite clearly a number of its members were pretty unproductive. I don't think we'll ever know the full details but I can understand his stance as it must have taken a personal toll.

he sings twilight.

robbie wrote almost everything,he was the star.

robbie stole all the songwriting credits from helm,danko,manuel

Garth was the musician star....

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