The beauty of the song is that it's a country and western song pierced by Brian's keening riff. Brian could do so much with a simple, repeated riff. (Ala 'Grown Up Wrong'). Of course it's the emotion achieved in those simple riffs that distinguishes Brian. Hypnotic and circular, the riff is the unspoken source of the darkness in the song.

I agree with all of the compliments of the song ..
Just wanted to give a nod to Charlie who alternates
his bass drum between a single and a double kick.

I also like the the triplett played on the tambourine.

Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

The tambourine in Satisfaction is stupid and the tambourine in The Last Time is great?

Do you know it´s the same instrument, Mathijs?

(oc you know, was only kiddin´)

But I think the tambourine in both tracks is essential, it could be heard loud and clear back then in ´65 on mono radio speakers as well as on am car radios.

THe cutting, ripping hypnotic quality of BJ´s riff in TLT AND the great, catchy riff with the strange sound some folks thought was produced by using a saxophone in Satisfaction make me glad that I´m old enough to have heard them fresh in ´65. Boy, I never forget the impact!

If it comes on the radio or the dancefloor or at a party just try not to sing along or dance to it. It's impossible. There can be no higher honour. A work of absolute genius that set the band on the road to absolute greatness.

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Silver Dagger
If it comes on the radio or the dancefloor or at a party just try not to sing along or dance to it. It's impossible. There can be no higher honour. A work of absolute genius that set the band on the road to absolute greatness.

I think I understand what you mean but to some extent if anyone is not able to sing a long or to dance to a song...the band manager, the record company and audience have a problem...don't they?

Just make one curiosity about the 'originality" of the composition. Like suggested above, it is the chorus that has been 'borrowed' (both musically and lyrically), but the verses are more 'home made'.

Actually I think the verses go musically according to a certain idiosyncratic pattern that belonged to early Jagger/Richard toolbag. It first occurred in "One More Try", and then after "The Last Time", at least in "Goin Home". The tempo is different in each case, the amount of notes is different and also the melody slightly differs but the basic structure of the melody line in its song's verses is the same. It is just different variations of the same idea. I think this is an early example of how certain Jagger/Richard songs are crafted. They had certain 'techniques'. There will be many other in yaers to come.

Can anyone grasp what I try to say here?

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-13 09:48 by Doxa.

Costello has a clever intro on his song 'This years model' sounding a little like 'The last time'.....do I need to say that 'This years model' is my favorite Elvis Costello composition....

2 1 2 0

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Doxa
Just make one curiosity about the 'originality" of the composition. Like suggested above, it is the chorus that has been 'borrowed' (both musically and lyrically), but the verses are more 'home made'.

Actually I think the verses go musically according to a certain idiosyncratic pattern that belonged to early Jagger/Richard toolbag. It first occurred in "One More Try", and then after "The Last Time", at least in "Goin Home". The tempo is different in each case, the amount of notes is different and also the melody slightly differs but the basic structure of the melody line in its song's verses is the same. It is just different variations of the same idea. I think this is an early example of how certain Jagger/Richard songs are crafted. They had certain 'techniques'. There will be many other in yaers to come.

Can anyone grasp what I try to say here?

- Doxa

Again with the theories...
Yeah i get it! I think. An adlib in the studio, a jam that evloves into somehting else? You ll have to explain.

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kristian
The tambourine in Satisfaction is stupid and the tambourine in The Last Time is great?

Do you know it´s the same instrument, Mathijs?

The tambourine plays quite a prominent part on many 60's Stoens tracks, normally doubling with the snare. Must be a 60's thing, but I have always wondered why on so many tracks the tambourine seems to be a bit off-beat, like it is played by some amateur. On The Last Time it is o.k., bu with Satisfaction the tambourine has always sounded off to me. Worst is tracks like Time is on My Side and Heart of Stone -the guy who played the tambourince must have been really stoned!

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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kristian
The tambourine in Satisfaction is stupid and the tambourine in The Last Time is great?

Do you know it´s the same instrument, Mathijs?

The tambourine plays quite a prominent part on many 60's Stoens tracks, normally doubling with the snare. Must be a 60's thing, but I have always wondered why on so many tracks the tambourine seems to be a bit off-beat, like it is played by some amateur. On The Last Time it is o.k., bu with Satisfaction the tambourine has always sounded off to me. Worst is tracks like Time is on My Side and Heart of Stone -the guy who played the tambourince must have been really stoned!

Mathijs

Is there always a guy who plays the tambourine? Wasn't it common that the tambourine was rigged at the drumkit in the 60's?
Which could be the reason why it seems to be a bit off-beat or delayed.

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Redhotcarpet

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Doxa
Just make one curiosity about the 'originality" of the composition. Like suggested above, it is the chorus that has been 'borrowed' (both musically and lyrically), but the verses are more 'home made'.

Actually I think the verses go musically according to a certain idiosyncratic pattern that belonged to early Jagger/Richard toolbag. It first occurred in "One More Try", and then after "The Last Time", at least in "Goin Home". The tempo is different in each case, the amount of notes is different and also the melody slightly differs but the basic structure of the melody line in its song's verses is the same. It is just different variations of the same idea. I think this is an early example of how certain Jagger/Richard songs are crafted. They had certain 'techniques'. There will be many other in yaers to come.

Can anyone grasp what I try to say here?

- Doxa

Again with the theories...
Yeah i get it! I think. An adlib in the studio, a jam that evloves into somehting else? You ll have to explain.

Thanks for asking... I try to be more explicit..

I was just talking about the verses, and how they are written. Here are the first verses of each song:

You need some money in a hurry but things ain't right
You try to beg and borrow, maybe start a fight
Your friends don't want to know you, they just pass you by
So they couldn't be your friends because they wouldn't lie

Well I told you once and I told you twice
But you never listen to my advice
You don't try very hard to please me
With what you know, it should be easy

Spending too much time away
I can't stand another day
Maybe you think I've seen the world
But I'd rather see my girl

Of course they all written similar way to make them rhime, but what is strikingly similar is the musical structure or "story" of the melody line. All of them start by almost talking-like

"You need some money in a hurry but"...
"Well I told you once and I"
"Spending too much..."

and then are emphasized by the end of the line.. actually similar way and sometimes the effect is pointed out by with a backing vocals.

"... THINGS AIN'T RIGHT!"
".... TOLD YOU TWICE!"
"... TIME AWAY!"

Of course, with "Goin' Home" the effect is weaker since it is slower and feeling-like does not so much tension.

In "One More Try" and "Going Home" the hook in the end of the line is reconstructed by just adding the the fifth or 'counter' chord (A/D, E/A)), while "The Last Time" has a little more sophisticated form (E/D/A), but the effect or the drama is basically the same.

Easist way to test what I try to say here is to pick up a guitar and start playing and singing these songs on the same key and after a while to realize how nicely you could actually change the place of the verses to each other...

(I don't know how this should interest anyone but I find these kind of things fascinating in order to understand the dynamics and ideas of the song from the point of view of their structure. Like knowing what happens behind the appearance. I have always found this kind of 'formal' thing interesting in song-writing. It is interesting to hear certain choices - "hmm... it is written this or that way..". I think anyone who has written some music by himself knows somehow - I hope - what I try to say here).

Now laugh...><

- Doxa

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Thommie

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Mathijs

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kristian
The tambourine in Satisfaction is stupid and the tambourine in The Last Time is great?

Do you know it´s the same instrument, Mathijs?

The tambourine plays quite a prominent part on many 60's Stoens tracks, normally doubling with the snare. Must be a 60's thing, but I have always wondered why on so many tracks the tambourine seems to be a bit off-beat, like it is played by some amateur. On The Last Time it is o.k., bu with Satisfaction the tambourine has always sounded off to me. Worst is tracks like Time is on My Side and Heart of Stone -the guy who played the tambourince must have been really stoned!

Mathijs

Is there always a guy who plays the tambourine? Wasn't it common that the tambourine was rigged at the drumkit in the 60's?
Which could be the reason why it seems to be a bit off-beat or delayed.

I think you're right there, Thommie.

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Doxa
Now laugh...

I ain't laughing. It's quite fascinating actually. How little do we know about the proces of
songwriting, actually. I can imagine the band being together, toying with ideas, some starts
playing a couple of chords or a riff or something, maybe hum a line or two, and they pick it
up from there. Don't know if I'm right, but it is not very hard to see how these melodies came
onto this world in a setting like that. Maybe at the moment you don't know where the lines
came from. Could be something you heard on the radio, something you sung earlier. But it sounds
good, in combination with this riff, these chords. And a "new" song is born. A cousin of
another one, but new in every aspect. I'd never see One more cry, The last time or Going
home as the same song, not even variations of the same song, but yeah, I can see how something
stuck in their mind and found a way out in a new song.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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DandelionPowderman

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Thommie

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Mathijs

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kristian
The tambourine in Satisfaction is stupid and the tambourine in The Last Time is great?

Do you know it´s the same instrument, Mathijs?

The tambourine plays quite a prominent part on many 60's Stoens tracks, normally doubling with the snare. Must be a 60's thing, but I have always wondered why on so many tracks the tambourine seems to be a bit off-beat, like it is played by some amateur. On The Last Time it is o.k., bu with Satisfaction the tambourine has always sounded off to me. Worst is tracks like Time is on My Side and Heart of Stone -the guy who played the tambourince must have been really stoned!

Mathijs

Is there always a guy who plays the tambourine? Wasn't it common that the tambourine was rigged at the drumkit in the 60's?
Which could be the reason why it seems to be a bit off-beat or delayed.

I think you're right there, Thommie.

Well, not with the Stones, no. They never did it like that. Main players for the tambourine where Jack Nitzsche, Jagger and Brian Jones, and was recorded either in an overdub or live when the basic take was recorded.

Mathijs

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marcovandereijk
I'd never see One more cry, The last time or Going
home as the same song, not even variations of the same song, but yeah, I can see how something
stuck in their mind and found a way out in a new song.

No no, I didn't mean to claim that they are variations of the same song. No, I just wanted to observe that there is something similar in some parts of them, in this case in their verse structures. It is probably as you said something stuck in their mind - or some idiosyncracies in their minds - that then is accomplished in certain context. Sometimes the whole feel or nature of the song is so different that we don't see the similarities. I think almost classical similar case is "Send It to Me" vs."Neighbours". They 'formally' - the structure and the main melody line - resembles each other but the feel of the songs is so different that is not so obvious to recognize. I see same kind of 'formal aspect' also in these three songs I mentioned (and only in their verses, not in choruses!).

I think we could theoretically make these sort of analysis or observations all over Jagger/Richards song repertuare, and how they are linked to each other, or to other sources. An 'ideal' research might even prevail something interesting of the nature of their creativity and of their 'minds' (I don't have skills, money or time for that). But I suppose in many cases the writers themselves do not reflect that at all. For them I suppose much of creativity is just intuitive.

Well, maybe what finally interest me is the human imagination.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-13 12:27 by Doxa.

The chord progression of the rythm guitar is glorious; and the solo is just a basic but very clever variation of it. Just listen to the intro, what falls from heaven are the "chords riffing" that drives the song perfectly behind the "solo riff"

The atmospher of the studio versions of TLT and satisfaction is not reproductible on live situations.

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Doxa

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marcovandereijk
I'd never see One more cry, The last time or Going
home as the same song, not even variations of the same song, but yeah, I can see how something
stuck in their mind and found a way out in a new song.

No no, I didn't mean to claim that they are variations of the same song. No, I just wanted to observe that there is something similar in some parts of them, in this case in their verse structures. It is probably as you said something stuck in their mind - or some idiosyncracies in their minds - that then is accomplished in certain context. Sometimes the whole feel or nature of the song is so different that we don't see the similarities. I think almost classical similar case is "Send It to Me" vs."Neighbours". They 'formally' - the structure and the main melody line - resembles each other but the feel of the songs is so different that is not so obvious to recognize. I see same kind of 'formal aspect' also in these three songs I mentioned (and only in their verses, not in choruses!).

I think we could theoretically make these sort of analysis or observations all over Jagger/Richards song repertuare, and how they are linked to each other, or to other sources. An 'ideal' research might even prevail something interesting of the nature of their creativity and of their 'minds' (I don't have skills, money or time for that). But I suppose in many cases the writers themselves do not reflect that at all. For them I suppose much of creativity is just intuitive.

Well, maybe what finally interest me is the human imagination.

- Doxa

Me too and youre spot on. Keep em comin.

Is it just me, I can't hear the piano - is it really there?

N

Bill said Brian came up with the riff himself. Without that riff the song probably would not have been a hit. Keith just strums three chords on his on his acoustic until he overdubs the lead. Brian's contribution should have given him a song writing credit. That riff made it a hit and it dominates the song. He at least arranged the song. Also his riff defined how every other hit would be written. Around a basic riff pattern of course. He gave Keith the idea. The very next hit was riff based. Satisfaction. Keith ran with the basic riff concept and lucky for the stones he did. It was hit after hit after that. Brian's guitar in the last time set the tone for the rest of the 60's. And Brian and Keith both came up with great riffs after TLT. Brian's talent was he knew exactly what a song needed to be great.

"Brian's talent was he knew exactly what a song needed to be great."

I agree, but only once it had been written. I also completely agree without Brian's riff the song would have been ordinary as opposed to brilliant. However this doesn't mean Brian should be co credited as songwriter. He put that riff to an existing piece of music. The song already existed without it.

Richards came up with the riff as the catalyst for "Satisfaction" and then he and Jagger went about composing it.

Like wise had "The last time" been written on the foundation of Brian's riff then there's no question he was instrumental in its composition. But he wasn't.

It's like bring the salt and pepper to a table that's already set. Quality salt and perp per I grant you...

This is one of those tunes that scream oldie to me. The sound and recording is great but it's got that bubblegum pop-ish thing going that I associate with 60's music before it got hip. Basically before my time and not my cup of tea.

I do appreciate that it was the tune that got Mick and Keith on the songwriting path, I would reap the benefits of that years later. peace

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OzHeavyThrobber
He put that riff to an existing piece of music. The song already existed without it.

How do we know this?

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fuzzbox

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OzHeavyThrobber
He put that riff to an existing piece of music. The song already existed without it.

How do we know this?

Even Keith says Brian did it and of course it's Brian. Had Keith even been close to anything remotely close to the riff he'd mention it in every interview, likely in form of a story: I was riding a bike when I suddenly saw a bird (a girl) and then it hit me, she is a real bluebird and I fell from the bike. I passed out and when I woke up I had the riff, that gliding sensual riff. The girl was Bridget Bardot and Keith had a brief but very hot fling with her in 1964. "

I mean't how do we know the song came before the riff?

I met Bill Wyman soon after his Stone Alone book was first published and he told me that Mick and Keith often wrote songs around riffs and chords the band jammed on in rehearsals, at soundchecks and in the studio.

great song from a great period for the band, full of energy and atmosphere, the guitar riff is infectious and uplifting.

It would be a nice touch if this song slipped into the set list at Aukland!

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fuzzbox

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OzHeavyThrobber
He put that riff to an existing piece of music. The song already existed without it.

How do we know this?

because the song was originally recorded in the 50s by the Staple Singers or something like that. Apologies, going from a fading memory.

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HomerSimpson
It would be a nice touch if this song slipped into the set list at Aukland!

I was pumped that they put it in the set early on this tour but it just didn't have the same impact. Contrast that to 97/98 when it was done beautifully! The crowd sang along, the song had a fresh driving rhythm... man that smoked. Trying to do it in the original cadence killed the vibe on the PPV.

The Last Time would make a great encore!

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Redhotcarpet

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fuzzbox

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OzHeavyThrobber
He put that riff to an existing piece of music. The song already existed without it.

How do we know this?

Even Keith says Brian did it and of course it's Brian. Had Keith even been close to anything remotely close to the riff he'd mention it in every interview, likely in form of a story: I was riding a bike when I suddenly saw a bird (a girl) and then it hit me, she is a real bluebird and I fell from the bike. I passed out and when I woke up I had the riff, that gliding sensual riff. The girl was Bridget Bardot and Keith had a brief but very hot fling with her in 1964. "

lmfao. You are probably right and your story is hilarious. peace