Q/A on Quora about Charlie (including the Start Me Up deal)

[www.quora.com]

Is Charlie Watts a corporate partner in The Rolling Stones, or is he an employee of Mick Jagger?

Brad Silverberg
·
March 15, 2018
Co-founder Fuel Capital; Partner at Ignition Partners; Microsoft SVP (1990-99)

My personal experience with the Stones is different than what Mitchell describes.

I was in charge of Windows 95 for Microsoft, both the business side and the product side. As part of the Windows 95 launch, we licensed the song “Start Me Up” from the Stones for the Windows 95 TV campaign. We negotiated for the license for the song directly with the Stones via their business manager, Prince Rupert Loewenstein. Prince Rupert Loewenstein - Wikipedia .

The Stones are a business partnership between Mick and Keith, with Mick as CEO. The final decisions are made by Mick, with Keith having a say. The rest are employees, some of whom get a cut of the royalties, but who don’t really get a vote in the business decisions.

Originally, Mick did not want to license the song. At the time, the Stones had not licensed their songs for commercials and Mick wanted to keep it that way. Mick is also a very smart businessman and had invested his money well. He was set. (He went to the London School of Economics).

Keith, however, was more open to licensing the song. He’s not as smart of a businessman and appealed to Mick. “Mick, man, I need the money.” I guess Keith’s burn rate was higher than Mick’s. He convinced Mick and we got the song. There was never any mention of needing to talk to Charlie Watts or anyone else. It was Mick and Keith’s decision, with Prince Rupert giving his advice and the point person.

Indeed, when they delivered the song, it was a different version than the one we are all familiar with. We were quite surprised and it was a difficult negotiation getting the “right” version. Why were we given a different version? Because the one they gave us was recorded later and with different band members. The royalty split for Mick and Keith was higher in the later version; lower for them for the familiar version. They tried to pass the version that was more favorable to them off on us. We balked and ultimately got the right version.

Brad Chase, who ran marketing for me on Win 95 and who was the person who did the negotiating with the Stones tells the story of licensing the song from the Stones: Start Me Up (again).

Interestingly, it was reported that we paid $14m or something like that for the song. We didn’t; we paid just a few million. Still a lot of money but worth every penny considering how impactful that TV ad was. For the next year, anytime Start Me Up was played, people thought, “Windows 95.” We suspect the rumor was created by the Stones to set the price for the next song they sold. Once they sold the first, of course they were going to sell another.

PS. I’m just pure out speculating here, but might Mick have spoken to Charlie Watts or Ronnie Woods before licensing Start Me Up to us? It’s possible, maybe he would talk to them to keep them in the loop and feeling involved. Whereas he wouldn’t involve the roadies or other true employees. But did Charlie or Ronnie Wood really get a vote? No. It was Mick, Keith, and Prince Rupert. They ran the Rolling Stones.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-29 17:11 by bv.

Interesting piece on the cash-cow juggernaut industry the band (or brand) have become.

"I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon."

Uncool nerds "dance" to a great rock song...see
what money can buy:

In 1998 "Dancing With Mr. D" would have been a good choice

The Fillmore was full of different colored Mac's given as sample's when they rehearsed for No Security.

Wonder what they got for the song Moonlight Mile for that movie?

What "later" version "with different band members" did the Stones allegedly give them?

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GasLightStreet
What "later" version "with different band members" did the Stones allegedly give them?

Probably a live version with Darryl.

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MizzAmandaJonez
The Fillmore was full of different colored Mac's given as sample's when they rehearsed for No Security.

Wonder what they got for the song Moonlight Mile for that movie?

Moonlight Mile is ABKCO so I'm sure they would have squeezed as much as they could from the movie! If I recall, when Snickers chocolate bars used Satisfaction back in the 90s, it cost them $9 million.

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MizzAmandaJonez

The Fillmore was full of different colored Mac's given as sample's when they rehearsed for No Security.

iMac commercial (She's A Rainbow):



[www.YouTube.com]

Going back to the spirit of the 60/70's you wouldn't believe all this.

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The Joker

The Stones are a business partnership between Mick and Keith, with Mick as CEO. The final decisions are made by Mick, with Keith having a say. The rest are employees, some of whom get a cut of the royalties, but who don’t really get a vote in the business decisions.

That's simply wrong.

The band members are equal partners.

(Obviously day to day stuff is delegated, and presumably Mick takes the lead, but that quoted bit is wrong.)

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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The Joker

The Stones are a business partnership between Mick and Keith, with Mick as CEO. The final decisions are made by Mick, with Keith having a say. The rest are employees, some of whom get a cut of the royalties, but who don’t really get a vote in the business decisions.

That's simply wrong.

The band members are equal partners.

(Obviously day to day stuff is delegated, and presumably Mick takes the lead, but that quoted bit is wrong.)

Not really,Mick and Keith obviously get all the song writing royalties except for the 6or7 songs Wood co-wrote.If either Keith or Mick left the band The Rolling Stones would cease.That is not the case with Wood or Watts

Of course, The Joker is the undisputed stirring King.....



ROCKMAN

for some fresh inside view on how the stones work as a unit go ask microsoft

Anyone have a song for the Windows 10 updates that keep crashing computers?

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Rocknroll1969

Anyone have a song for the Windows 10 updates that keep crashing computers?

"Cause I try and I try and I try and I try, I can't get no ...."




Or ....

very successful indeed. Windows 95 (as well as all the following versions) made many, many grown men cry…

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Taylor1

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CaptainCorella

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The Joker

The Stones are a business partnership between Mick and Keith, with Mick as CEO. The final decisions are made by Mick, with Keith having a say. The rest are employees, some of whom get a cut of the royalties, but who don’t really get a vote in the business decisions.

That's simply wrong.

The band members are equal partners.

(Obviously day to day stuff is delegated, and presumably Mick takes the lead, but that quoted bit is wrong.)

Not really,Mick and Keith obviously get all the song writing royalties except for the 6or7 songs Wood co-wrote.If either Keith or Mick left the band The Rolling Stones would cease.That is not the case with Wood or Watts

The song writing royalties are not The Rolling Stones. No more than Northern Songs was The Beatles.

The Rolling Stones is a performing band made up, initially, of six members (Brian, Stu, Mick, Keith, Bill and Charlie). On ALL band matters, ALL of them had equal votes. (Remember which 2 voted against releasing Satisfaction as the then next single!)

When there are significant issues to discuss, they meet - lust like a company board.

Day to day business is done by their management, and (as I said) de facto Mick does the most. TO say, as the original article did, that it was a business partnership with Mick & Keef, and that the others were simply employees is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

If you read Stone Alone you'll read about how Ronnie was, yes, originally an employee, and then at a meeting Bill forced the others to give Ronnie equal status legally.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

How long was Jagger enrolled at The London School of Economics? Five minutes? His attending get’s mentioned constantly, as if it made him such a savvy financial whizz.

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TooTough
Uncool nerds "dance" to a great rock song...see
what money can buy:

I think I remember seeing that.

Did you really have to post that? I just watched it. Truly mind boggling. I now have some kind of glitch.


It's the worst thing I've ever seen.

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Big Al
How long was Jagger enrolled at The London School of Economics? Five minutes? His attending get’s mentioned constantly, as if it made him such a savvy financial whizz.

LOL! I have noticed that. It's hilarious. You know, obviously it's why the Stones are sooooo successful.

The other one is, basically, the only reason Mick is in such great shape is because his father taught PE in school.


Yet no one ever writes 'If it weren't for Keith's voice changing, there wouldn't be (enter songs here)'.

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CaptainCorella

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The Joker

The Stones are a business partnership between Mick and Keith, with Mick as CEO. The final decisions are made by Mick, with Keith having a say. The rest are employees, some of whom get a cut of the royalties, but who don’t really get a vote in the business decisions.

That's simply wrong.

The band members are equal partners.

(Obviously day to day stuff is delegated, and presumably Mick takes the lead, but that quoted bit is wrong.)

Yes, the article is written with such a tone of authority that you have to get to the very end to find out the writer is doing nothing but inferring the structure of the business based what he saw during the negotiations to use one song for commercial purpose.

It's no surprise that a song's composers would have more to say about its licensing than anyone else, and no one who knows anything about the Stones would be surprised to learn that Jagger has the most influence on the band's business decisions. That tells us nothing about the structure of the Rolling Stones as a corporation.

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CaptainCorella

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Taylor1

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CaptainCorella

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The Joker

The Stones are a business partnership between Mick and Keith, with Mick as CEO. The final decisions are made by Mick, with Keith having a say. The rest are employees, some of whom get a cut of the royalties, but who don’t really get a vote in the business decisions.

That's simply wrong.

The band members are equal partners.

(Obviously day to day stuff is delegated, and presumably Mick takes the lead, but that quoted bit is wrong.)

Not really,Mick and Keith obviously get all the song writing royalties except for the 6or7 songs Wood co-wrote.If either Keith or Mick left the band The Rolling Stones would cease.That is not the case with Wood or Watts

The song writing royalties are not The Rolling Stones. No more than Northern Songs was The Beatles.

The Rolling Stones is a performing band made up, initially, of six members (Brian, Stu, Mick, Keith, Bill and Charlie). On ALL band matters, ALL of them had equal votes. (Remember which 2 voted against releasing Satisfaction as the then next single!)

When there are significant issues to discuss, they meet - lust like a company board.

Day to day business is done by their management, and (as I said) de facto Mick does the most. TO say, as the original article did, that it was a business partnership with Mick & Keef, and that the others were simply employees is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

If you read Stone Alone you'll read about how Ronnie was, yes, originally an employee, and then at a meeting Bill forced the others to give Ronnie equal status legally.

.I thought Wood was made a full member only after Wynan left. If Mick or Keith had decided to call it quits at anytime the band would have ceased .They are the Stones.If Charlie or Wood had left at anytime maybe up to 15years ago,the band would have continued.Today ,if they did,the band would probably dissolve.Mick and Keith are the Stones in that sense.

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GasLightStreet

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TooTough
Uncool nerds "dance" to a great rock song...see
what money can buy:

I think I remember seeing that.

Did you really have to post that? I just watched it. Truly mind boggling. I now have some kind of glitch.


It's the worst thing I've ever seen.

Right there, live on that stage the idea of the Pit was born.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-31 10:18 by shattered1978.

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Taylor1
I thought Wood was made a full member only after Wynan left.

Take the time to read "Stone Alone" where it's all related in extensive :-) detail.

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Taylor1
If Mick or Keith had decided to call it quits at anytime the band would have ceased .They are the Stones.If Charlie or Wood had left at anytime maybe up to 15years ago,the band would have continued.Today ,if they did,the band would probably dissolve.Mick and Keith are the Stones in that sense.

I suspect that broadly speaking that's what we'd expect.

IMHO if Ronnie left, the band *might* cease, but if Keith, Mick or Charlie did then it *would* cease to exist.

But that's a nuance - broadly I agree.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan