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PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 22:13

Yes! And I believe this will be the shortest thread ever in IORR history, but who cares! I know peeple love to hate that album, and Jagger's solo career "disaster" is very much associated to it. Yeah, the traditional Stones fans found that way too unStonesy, and Jagger couldn't find a new audience either; so the album just flopped. But I claim that when all is said and done, this album will be one of the key albums to listen when people are trying to make sense of that muýstical figure called Mick Jagger. And with open eyes and no prejudices they will be surprised!

I happen to like PRIMTIVE COOL. I liked it a lot when it was released, and listened it very very much at the time. Much more than DIRTY WORK. It contains namely something DIRTY WORK hasn't: a quality songwriting. But then after ear-pleasing down to earth TALK IS CHEAP and, of course, a reunion album STEEL WHEELS the album was soon forgotten and doomed to be an artistic flop in Jagger's career. That turned out to be the general truth ever since. But I have started relistening the album lately. To my mind it starts to make more and more sense; it contains fresh and vital elements that most of Jagger's doings has lacked almost totally ever since. It, for example, introduces the 'modern' trained Jagger voice that, unfortunately. is a dated cliche now. But then it sounded fresh, focused and relevant.

For example, this is a gem (cmpare Jagger's voice and commitment to anything he did in DIRTY WORK - an incredible difference!)





Okay, now shoot me... tongue sticking out smiley

... But I will go on...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 23:23 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 22:37

Technically, this is one of Mick Jagger's most demanding singing performances ever. He needs to really sing properly in a wide range, and he nails it perfectly. Here one can also hear all the familiar voice tricks and nuances that are way too common ever since. But here they are brandnew:





- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 22:38 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: March 24, 2012 22:50

Those 2 songs, Kow Tow and Say You Will are amongs Jagger's best solo songs; but also....they are also the only 2 good songs Primitive Cool, I think



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 22:55 by Erik_Snow.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 22:56

Quote
Erik_Snow
Those 2 songs, Kow Tow and Say You Will are amongs Jagger's best solo songs; but also....they are also the only 2 good songs Primitive Cool, I think

What, you don't like this one, not even the video...???eye popping smiley





- Doxa

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 22:58

Honestly, I don't think there is not any other album that is killed so brutally with a leading single and video...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 22:59 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:02

Quote
Doxa
Honestly, I don't think there is not any other album that is killed so brutally with a leading single and video...

- Doxa

That may be true. But if Jagger had chosen War Baby as a single, and also made a musicvideo as classy as Let's Work to go along with it....it may had been even worse than Let's Work.

Never been able to watch more than 20 sec out of that above video, by the way...!

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Virgin Priest ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:06

I loved that album, especially KOW TOW!

Priest

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:06

An album which is half decent and half awful, and which has dated horribly (as have most albums from that best forgotten decade).

Several songs that are evidently about Keith - either an affectionate farewell (Party Doll) or quite bitter (Kow Tow, Shoot off Your Mouth)

Party Doll is a lovely song. Say You Will is pretty good and War Baby is one I've always liked for some reason.

Radio Control is a really underrated song IMO. The second best on the album.

Lets Work is awful beyond words, made worse by that never to be forgotten video

Nothing however will ever prepare you for Mick's return to TOTP after a 16 year absence when he treated the kids of Britain to this. It was so embarrassing I watched it from behind the settee.

The sound on this clip has been removed. You can thank me for it anytime!







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 23:08 by Gazza.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:07

Occasionally good (not great) songwriting is not enough to save Jagger's solo albums. His albums are by far the worst if compared to what Keith, Ronnie, even Charlie and Taylor did (Bill, I do not know because I never bought one of his).

Keith is the only one who was able to create music on the same level of the best Stones' stuff. Different, sure, but same quality work.

Jagger made She's the Boss that is quite good. All the others that follow are the repetition of the same scheme. Is any ballad really different or better than Hard Woman? Same for the fast song.

Primitive Cool is not much worse than Boss, but is way better than the grately overrated Spirit.

C

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:11

Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
Doxa
Honestly, I don't think there is not any other album that is killed so brutally with a leading single and video...

- Doxa

That may be true. But if Jagger had chosen War Baby as a single, and also made a musicvideo as classy as Let's Work to go along with it....it may had been even worse than Let's Work.

Never been able to watch more than 20 sec out of that above video, by the way...!

Well, things weren't much luckier for a video of "Primitive Cool" either...
I never knew before youtube-era that there even existed such a thing. It was only directed to Australia, Mick's solo career main market.





- Doxa

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:22

Jeez that TOTP performance, and I thought i've seen it all... Yeah, but a big plus for not having sound...

- Doxa

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: kammpberg ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:35

I loved Primitive Cool and still enjoy it to this day. But I also really liked She's The Boss. They both sound a bit dated now, but that's not a fair "fault" of the albums themselves. They were of their times. The biggest problem with Primitive Cool was the lead off single Let's Work, which as noted, is so bad that it single handedly killed the album. I hated the song then and still do. I agree it's the single worst performance ever for Mick or The Stones. But beyond that: Throwaway was a great opener, Say You Will is great as is Party Doll. All the other songs are all strong. The cover of the album was also horrible which didn't help at all. But all of Jagger's solo album covers are fairly awful and his choice of lead off singles have been pretty bad. I love Wandering Spirit, but Sweet Thing was the worst track on the album. Although I thought God Gave Me Everything was a great opening single for Goddess.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:42

Quote
liddas
Occasionally good (not great) songwriting is not enough to save Jagger's solo albums. His albums are by far the worst if compared to what Keith, Ronnie, even Charlie and Taylor did (Bill, I do not know because I never bought one of his).

I think the difference of Jagger as a songwriter to the others mentioned is that he can make finished songs. With his lyrics and clear melody structures he glues the songs into compact units wheras especially Keith's solo stuff is from an song-writer point of view a bit half-baked/half-thought, just throwing some key phares and leading vocals to base of riffage and chord sequences (but sometimes that, of course, makes a wonderful listening experience, by capturing the feeling). Taylor and Wood do not qualify here - neither is actually any song-writer even though they can come up with some nice riffs, chord sequences and song sketches (even though with the case of Woodie any kind of originality is not his forte). As songwriters they belong clearly to another division than the the Twins. And Wyman belongs to the next one below.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 23:44 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:54

As you pointed out Doxa, the album didn't go down well among Stonesfans and the kids didn't give a sh*t. So you wonder: What public was he aiming at? It probably had decent sales figures anyway solely due to his name. These albums were Jagger's attempt to make a new career, re-energize himself and try to keep in touch with the times. But as it turned out they showed that he was basically lost in time. He was too old to start a new career.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 24, 2012 23:58

Quote
kammpberg
I loved Primitive Cool and still enjoy it to this day. But I also really liked She's The Boss. They both sound a bit dated now, but that's not a fair "fault" of the albums themselves. They were of their times. .

The probelm with the 80's albums is, of course, the dated sound, and this I think is one of the biggest obstacles in trying to enjoy the album. Mostly I can't do that (I grew up in the middle of all that, and I survived to tell the story but surely not have nostalgic desires). I think for example that DIRTY WORK and STEEL WHEELS simply fail as albums due their production/sound, and there is not enough substance beyond that - good music - to compansate the loss. But there are two specific albums that sound terribly so slicky mid-80's as poosible but I still 'forgive' that: Jagger's PRIMITIVE COOL and Dylan's EMPIRE BURLESQUE. I think both of them contain such good songs and musical effort that the 'ugly' context does not totally kill it.

- Doxa

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Title5Take1 ()
Date: March 25, 2012 00:06

I recently downloaded some of its songs onto my iPod. So I must kind of like it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-26 07:55 by Title5Take1.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 25, 2012 00:13

Quote
Stoneage
As you pointed out Doxa, the album didn't go down well among Stonesfans and the kids didn't give a sh*t. So you wonder: What public was he aiming at? It probably had decent sales figures anyway solely due to his name. These albums were Jagger's attempt to make a new career, re-energize himself and try to keep in touch with the times. But as it turned out they showed that he was basically lost in time. He was too old to start a new career.

Exactly. For the 80's scene he was an old fart, that is, too much associated to the old time rock and roll/Stones. He could never have convincingly charmed the kids. Funnily as a kid then - and a fan of his - I somehow sensed that it is a mission impossible. A new, post-Stones Jagger just didn't "fit" to the scene. The last time he was able to charm the kids were with SOME GIRLS but that - and punk/disco - was a long time ago. Maybe he actually made a huge mistake estimation, or just hoped the best - the miracle to happen. But as it turned out to be the only people who were interested in his solo stuff were his old fans - the Stones fans. People like me (the 'left wing' open for new musical adventures and not just repeating the receipt of Exile). But seemingly we were not his target audience, and I think quite many felt a bit betrayed, or couldn't quite relate to his doings. As a result Jagger sounded and looked a bit corny and unconvincing to each side (the kids vs. Stones fans).

Strange times.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-25 00:20 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 25, 2012 00:39

I think we need to notice that PRIMITIVE COOL - with its leading single/video -, was more radical and more far from the Stones comfort zone than SHE'S THE BOSS. I think Jagger intentionally kept SHE'S THE BOSS quite close to The Stones. It really sounded like an album made by a Rolling Stone - just softening certain elements to suit to certain modern trends. There is a current, say Prince influences, but even a hardcore Stones fan feels the atmopshere quite cozy (that was what Ricahrds complained as well - sounding too much Rolling Stones!)

But with PRIMITIVE COOL Jagger really took a risk and tried to create a rather different musical soundscape altogether. He wanted to reach out. That's all I can think of the "Let's Work" fiasco. Was he really thinking finding a new audience, I don't know. Maybe he just followed hís muse, and hoped for the best.

But then, after the commercial failure of PRIMITIVE COOL, WANDERING SPIRIT was really safe and sure album if one particular audience is in mind - like said by many, it is best Rolling Stones album since TATTOO YOU...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-25 00:45 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: March 25, 2012 00:51

Quote
Doxa
Quote
liddas
Occasionally good (not great) songwriting is not enough to save Jagger's solo albums. His albums are by far the worst if compared to what Keith, Ronnie, even Charlie and Taylor did (Bill, I do not know because I never bought one of his).

I think the difference of Jagger as a songwriter to the others mentioned is that he can make finished songs. With his lyrics and clear melody structures he glues the songs into compact units wheras especially Keith's solo stuff is from an song-writer point of view a bit half-baked/half-thought, just throwing some key phares and leading vocals to base of riffage and chord sequences (but sometimes that, of course, makes a wonderful listening experience, by capturing the feeling).

- Doxa

Sure Jagger can write great songs, but for one reason or the other, his talent and potential does not show on his solo work. songwriting is only one ingredient of good music. The music on Jagger's albums is so professionally sterile that even good songs sound not as good as they could be.

Keith solo work is just great music. Great music doesn't need to be in the form of "song" to be great.

Keith started from the foundations and first assembled a band, the tone.

Jagger never was able to do the same. That is why I would love to hear him perform a best of his solo stuff alone, just him and a piano or a guitar.

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-25 00:52 by liddas.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL appreciation thread
Posted by: tomcat2006 ()
Date: March 25, 2012 01:15

Quote
liddas
Occasionally good (not great) songwriting is not enough to save Jagger's solo albums. His albums are by far the worst if compared to what Keith, Ronnie, even Charlie and Taylor did (Bill, I do not know because I never bought one of his).

Keith is the only one who was able to create music on the same level of the best Stones' stuff. Different, sure, but same quality work.

Jagger made She's the Boss that is quite good. All the others that follow are the repetition of the same scheme. Is any ballad really different or better than Hard Woman? Same for the fast song.

Primitive Cool is not much worse than Boss, but is way better than the grately overrated Spirit.

C


Can't agree with this post. I'm afraid.

I'd say Wandering Spirit is unrivalled by any other sole Stones albumn.

The only ones to come near it are Talk Is Cheap and Ronnie's latest I Feel Like Playing (which is excellent if you haven't heard it).

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Date: March 25, 2012 01:18

Some good songs (Say You Will, Party Doll, the title track and Peace For The Wicked).

However, the production was cringeworthy already in 1987, imo.

I´m putting on Slide On This instead... smileys with beer

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: uhbuhgullayew ()
Date: March 25, 2012 21:46

PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread

I've always liked this album as well as the majority of Mick's solo material.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: March 25, 2012 22:51

Quote
Doxa
I think we need to notice that PRIMITIVE COOL - with its leading single/video -, was more radical and more far from the Stones comfort zone than SHE'S THE BOSS. I think Jagger intentionally kept SHE'S THE BOSS quite close to The Stones. It really sounded like an album made by a Rolling Stone - just softening certain elements to suit to certain modern trends. There is a current, say Prince influences, but even a hardcore Stones fan feels the atmopshere quite cozy (that was what Ricahrds complained as well - sounding too much Rolling Stones!)

But with PRIMITIVE COOL Jagger really took a risk and tried to create a rather different musical soundscape altogether. He wanted to reach out. That's all I can think of the "Let's Work" fiasco. Was he really thinking finding a new audience, I don't know. Maybe he just followed hís muse, and hoped for the best.

But then, after the commercial failure of PRIMITIVE COOL, WANDERING SPIRIT was really safe and sure album if one particular audience is in mind - like said by many, it is best Rolling Stones album since TATTOO YOU...

- Doxa

I believe you are right, Doxa. PRIMITIVE COOL actually shows Mick approaching his songwriting from a slightly more autobiographical stance (and especially on 'War Baby'), which is a pretty rare occurance for him, which in a sense proves him to be trying out some new lyrical, as well as musical strategies. PRIMITIVE COOL has depth, which pretty much all of the Stones post TATTOO YOU catalogue tends to lack. There is a meticulous eye for detail which incidentally is the thread running through all of Jagger's solo albums, where there's a sense he's taking his role as a solo artist rather more seriously, than the more mundane, and ultimately uninspiring efforts he was directing towards the Stones later projects. PRIMITIVE COOL, for me, can hold your attention, long after the likes of STEEL WHEELS and VOODOO LOUNGE have begun to fade. It is for me, undoubtedly, a more inspiring work than the fashionable sounding, SHE'S THE BOSS, too, because Jagger's source influences seem that little more complex than simply a need to feel trendy (in a sort of diluted Stones inspired fashion) with the accents being a little more firmly on the synthetic beat. With PRIMITIVE COOL, the influences seem so much more intricately based, and unusual, despite the overriding slightly booming eighties style production. Jagger seemed to be really trying, yet, whether what he's really set out to achieve, had been truly successful is much more open to debate. Somewhere along the line, whether in terms of Jagger's vocal, the production, and occasionally the songwriting, it all doesn't come together as well as it might. Maybe in a sense, Jagger was writing/recording material that didn't quit suit him, it's hard to say. It certainly hasn't aged well in terms of its production, either. However, i find it staggering to think one could actually find more to love on albums like A BIGGER BANG, which is strictly a Stones going-through-the-motions exercise, without any inspiration. PRIMITIVE COOL is far more interesting, and less simply a role playing gesture by Jagger. There are actual moments on PRIMITIVE COOL, where it is almost possible to feel in touching distance of Jagger, and that really is a rare occurance for him, indeed. Maybe Jagger could have continued with that a little more, instead of returning overwhelmingly to the Mick Jagger parody show. Or maybe it was so untypical for him, it proved just a little too hard to swallow. I think that's where the real dilemma lies.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-25 23:31 by Edward Twining.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: proudmary ()
Date: March 25, 2012 23:30

Quote
Doxa
Quote
kammpberg
I loved Primitive Cool and still enjoy it to this day. But I also really liked She's The Boss. They both sound a bit dated now, but that's not a fair "fault" of the albums themselves. They were of their times. .

The probelm with the 80's albums is, of course, the dated sound, and this I think is one of the biggest obstacles in trying to enjoy the album. Mostly I can't do that (I grew up in the middle of all that, and I survived to tell the story but surely not have nostalgic desires). I think for example that DIRTY WORK and STEEL WHEELS simply fail as albums due their production/sound, and there is not enough substance beyond that - good music - to compansate the loss. But there are two specific albums that sound terribly so slicky mid-80's as poosible but I still 'forgive' that: Jagger's PRIMITIVE COOL and Dylan's EMPIRE BURLESQUE. I think both of them contain such good songs and musical effort that the 'ugly' context does not totally kill it.

- Doxa

I'm nostalgic for the 80s and so sometimes I like to listen to this music, especially of course the albums of the artists I appreciate. it's funny, but my daughters (18 and 14 years) and their friends just LOVE the 80's and do not consider this music outdated - as opposed to us 40+ generation.
Primitive Cool for sure isn't really that great but sometimes I enjoy it. In any case it's much better than Main Offender
Btw, what do you think about Bowie's Let's Dance and Iggy Pop's Blah Blah Blah?

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: proudmary ()
Date: March 25, 2012 23:36

an interesting read

By Mikal Gilmore
November 19, 1987

With his venturesome second solo LP, Primitive Cool, Mick Jagger has finally reasserted his voice of rage and disdain — or at least he has managed to reinvoke it as much as may be possible for an artist so worldly and unsentimental.
For more than a generation, Jagger has peacocked his way across rock & roll bandstands, singing songs of violence, carnality, contempt and hubris with such a convincing leer that for many of us the singer seemed indivisible from the sentiments of his songs. But for roughly fifteen years now, Jagger has seemed increasingly to be trading hard-bitten intelligence and passion for something uncomfortably akin to bluster and bravado, making for a series of hackneyed albums and overly preening stage performances that reeked of self-parody. There was little amid the hyperbole and posturing that followed Exile on Main Street as affecting or memorable as Jagger's singing on "Fool to Cry" and "Memory Motel" — two mid-Seventies songs sung in the voice of a man losing the very dreams he could never afford to lose. It was a yearning and vulnerable style that we had never before heard from Jagger — the first voice that proved as persuasive as the sneering, fearful one that fueled his best 1960s work. And for a long time, it seemed to be a voice that we might never hear again.

Primitive Cool marks a rather surprising transfiguration — perhaps the most sweeping work of artistic self-redefinition by a major pop figure since Bob Dylan turned homey on Nashville Skyline or at least since Lou Reed revealed his lovey-dovey side on The Blue Mask. Whether one should view this turn as a sign of genuine personal change is another matter, because, truth be told, there has always been a good deal less of the real Mick Jagger in his music than many of us might care to realize. At the same time, Primitive Cool probably makes more biographical and emotional sense than anything Jagger has worked on since Some Girls — which, in retrospect, was a fairly mean-humored, self-serving effort that aimed to hit hard at all those things (mainly women and punks) that had temporarily made Jagger's world a little less manageable.

In word and spirit, Primitive Cool is about as contrary to Some Girls as you can imagine. Indeed, like Dylan's and Reed's change-of-heart milestones, Primitive Cool would appear to be the work of a man who has taken a long, tough look at the life that he has been leading and the world that he is living in and has decided to reexamine some of his values. It is tempting to believe that Jagger intends this as a heartfelt personal statement. Certainly it fits in with what we presume to know about the singer at this point: namely, that he is now something of a family man and that he no longer seems fully enamored of the Rolling Stones' raw-toned approach to life and music. But perhaps it's simply more accurate to say that in contrast to his perfunctory solo debut, She's the Boss, Primitive Cool sounds like a record Jagger had to leave the Stones to make. The melodies that he's produced by himself have more power and motion than most of what he has fashioned with Richards in over a decade, while his singing exhibits the sort of diversity and commitment that appeared to elude him shortly after Sticky Fingers.

On Primitive Cool, some of the album's most desperate-seeming lyrics are also braced by some of the most straightforwardly exultant music that Jagger has ever crafted. In "Throwaway," for example, Jeff Beck's raveup guitar lines and drummer Simon Phillips and bassist Doug Wimbish's brawny rhythmic structure set the way for a song that seems ready to paint the town red. Instead, Jagger launches into an almost begging admission of romantic need that's all the more affecting for its self-incrimination. "I've played the fool, I've played the clown/I'm an easy lover when I come to town," he sings at the outset, playing up to his popular image as an eager womanizer. Yet there's a twist here: the singer has fallen hard for a woman who, he now understands, has the strength — and maybe the will — to walk out on him. Suddenly, the idea of returning to his former sleep-around life seems like a nightmare. "If you leave me," he sings in a voice that sounds half-beguiling and half-mad, "I'll go frantic/With cheap champagne, brief affairs and backstage love ... I gave you the best years of my life/Don't you kick me in the gutter." The man who sang "Fool to Cry" more than a decade ago returns to explore the same themes of heartache and regret — only this time he knows enough to stave off the harm.

But there's more to Primitive Cool than merely the notion of preserving the singer's romantic world. In the title track he begins to consider the world of his children and muses over what the scene might be like on that day in the not so distant future when they confront him with questions about his image and his involvement in the events of the last generation: "Did you walk cool in the sixties daddy?/Did you fight in the war?/Or did you chase all the whores on the rock and roll rumble? ... Did you break all the laws that were ready to crumble?" Anybody who hears this litany of inquiries already knows the answer — as much as anybody, Jagger helped shape the ethics of a generation in transition — but the singer is either too cool or too savvy to boast. Instead, he simply advises his kids to explore their own times with as much passion as they can muster, which is a rather neat way of refusing to cater to all the current nostalgia for the Sixties. A few songs later, though, in the rueful "War Baby," Jagger considers the violent future that his children may well end up facing. He imagines the cacophony and the dread of that day, and for the first time since "Gimmie Shelter," his vocal wavers somewhere between rage and prayer.

But don't get the idea that Jagger has turned exactly, um, softhearted. In fact, some of Primitive Cool's kickiest moments are also some of its nastiest, especially the stormy "Kow Tow" ("The wicked lay stones in my path," sings Jagger in an allusion to the band he no longer loves) and the Exile-style "Shoot Off Your Mouth," which seems to be a gender-bending kiss-off to Keith Richards ("I was a rising star/You hitched your wagon next to mine.... Who are you to shoot off your mouth?"). But Jagger's most affecting message to Richards, as well as the LP's loveliest song, is "Party Doll," a Pogues-style track that mixes countryish sentiment with haunting Gaelic instrumentation. "You used to love to honky-tonk," sings Jagger in a rueful twang, "But now those dancing days are over/You used to be my number one/But now you vanished in the ozone."

In a sense, it's just a love song: a farewell to the love or friendship you can neither live with nor live without. But it also turns out to be something more: a reminder of what Jagger may have sacrificed to make music this strong and resourceful. Whether this feat is worth the loss of the Rolling Stones — if that's the way things should tumble — is a hard question, and probably nobody will have to examine that possibility more closely than Jagger himself. If Primitive Cool turns out to be what it feels like — Mick Jagger's long-overdue rejuvenation — then whatever this cocky icon makes of his future should concern anybody who ever respected his past.


[www.rollingstone.com]

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 25, 2012 23:44

Thanks Edward for your insights. Spot on.

The very word I prefer to describe PRIMITIVE COOL is the one you also emphasized, namely "interesting". No way we can call it any "perfect" or "great" album; the whole package just don't work very well, even though there are lots of good things going on. And most of all some unique element we don't find almost in other Jagger/Stones album. I think SATANIC MAJESTIES could be thought its equavalent in Stones catalog. In both cases the big effort and drive does not translate very well in the final product. The aims are not met. But it is those interesting, unique elements in both cases that keeps them still rather reawarding listenings. That is to say that the album says something, unlike most of the Stones stuff since DIRTY WORK.

-Doxa

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: stonesdan60 ()
Date: March 26, 2012 00:01

I also think PC is a very good album; much better than STB. The only song I really didn't like was Let's Work, just sounded too contrived and commercial.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: March 26, 2012 00:13

Still, when he was commended and asked about the lyrics on the album he waved that aside and didn't want to talk about it. He did an quite extensive promo tour for Primitive Cool in Europe. When in Stockholm he was asked if the lyrics on "War Baby" and "Primitive Cool" were self experienced; if it was about himself talking to his kids how life was in the fifties and sixties. As usual, he shrugged that of. The lyrics wasn't about him he said, and he didn't want to talk about his children.

You sometimes ask yourself: Why does he bother to do interviews at all when he almost never answers the questions?

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 26, 2012 00:16

Thanks proudmary for the old ROLLING STONE review. Even though it has the typical feature of lip service to anything Stones-related, I think it is a pretty good review. It points out some important things. It says, for example, the same thing Edward Twining just made above of Jagger's "depth" and "seriousness", and the reference to BLACK AND BLUE songs is interesting (and spot on). It sees that SOME GIRLS era seems to be over: "In word and spirit, Primitive Cool is about as contrary to Some Girls as you can imagine".

What is also interesting is that it supposes that the Stones is dead and gone, or at least that it should be seen as an option we all should learn to live with: "Primitive Cool sounds like a record Jagger had to leave the Stones to make." And what is more, the article doesn't see the loss of the Stones such a tragical thing. Quite contrary, it sees the future rather inspiring, and is looking for how Jagger will lead us there. The article still believes in Jagger's artistic muse.

Unfortunately the latter never happened. By contrast, Jagger went back to SOME GIRLS premises, and adopted - to use Edward's expression - the "Jagger parody show", the nostalgia married with his physical ageless. Damn, I hate the lost scenario... What if...eye rolling smiley

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-26 00:29 by Doxa.

Re: PRIMITIVE COOL (a sort of) appreciation thread
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: March 26, 2012 00:20

Quote
Stoneage
You sometimes ask yourself: Why does he bother to do interviews at all when he almost never answers the questions?

Why? Because it's a part of the contract. The same reason that (some) writers has to sign their books at bookstores, even if they loathe it.

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