Again taking the circumstances into account (borrowed guitar, seemingly unrehearsed, Elvis Costello on vocals ) Keith played reasonably well. The video's show he's somewhat struggling with the ballance of the guitar. This event wasn't meant to show the current state of Keith guitar skills.

www.rsundercover.eu

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stonesdan60
I think Keith's work throughout the film is top notch, especially his chord work - even if his solos are leaner than in younger years.

Maybe you should watch Shine A Light and Seattle Supersonic back to back. The set lists have many songs in common.

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Happy24

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Mathijs
Chuck Berry style is really not rocket science.Mathijs

This guy has nailed it:









Can it get any better? He has other Berry covers and also some great covers of The Stones

Try this, I think you'll like it better-

oh boy i can see it now...the Rolling Stones 50th Anniversary Shows with "Special Guests"...it's going to be like "Hail Hail Rock n Roll"...i can imagine Jack White, Lady Ga Ga, Andre 3000 (sic) and whoever else is popular no matter if they have credibility or not... etc etc et al getting onstage with them...and it's going to be stupid...the world's original outlaw band reduced to playing with a bunch of hacks...and smiling the whole time they are doing it...

i hope i am wrong...i love my boys...

I'd rather see Julian Lennon do a song with them than the blowhard Elvis Costello...who will be there...pulling out some clever 60's nugget from their catalog like he's hip to something ...that guy has backpeddled on everything he ever stood for in the first place and now just likes to hear himself talk...he should've stopped after "Trust"...

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Britney
The video's show he's somewhat struggling with the ballance of the guitar.

Well heck if you can't even hold a guitar anymore, how can you expect to play it decently?


I'll look at the clips later and make my own judgement, but from reading some comments here I have a bad, bad feeling that's it's all over now.

man, that was happening < 2 hours from me...imagine tix were pretty dear.

has been a great few days on the 'board...lots of exciting reports, vid and photos

regarding KR's performance, I prefer seeing him on acoustic and the L5 Gib (?)...sure he could tighten up his timing, but I like the direction. I'm much more excited by this understated, raw performance than the band rocking out in yet another tired circus act, esp. in regard to watching MJ, which is becoming awkward. I just find Keith's direction more interesting and relevant.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-27 16:50 by paulm.

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paulm
man, that was happening < 2 hours from me...imagine tix were pretty dear.

if it's any comfort, the news clip said it was by invitation only

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Koen

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Britney
The video's show he's somewhat struggling with the ballance of the guitar.

Well heck if you can't even hold a guitar anymore, how can you expect to play it decently?


I'll look at the clips later and make my own judgement, but from reading some comments here I have a bad, bad feeling that's it's all over now.

Well if you expect the old rocker to deliver a better performance than in his prime, under suboptimal circumstances you'll probably be dissapointed. If you're expecting to see Keef spontaneously paying tribute to Chuck Berry you'll be pleasantly surprised.

www.rsundercover.eu

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gwen

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stonesdan60
I think Keith's work throughout the film is top notch, especially his chord work - even if his solos are leaner than in younger years.

Maybe you should watch Shine A Light and Seattle Supersonic back to back. The set lists have many songs in common.

Don't get me wrong. I realize that Keith Richards at @63 in SAL is not the peak form dynamo he was in 1981 as documented on Hampton. But still, I think he played very well at that Beacon performance. He still put across the essence of the songs and still sounded enough like the Keith Richards I like to make me happy. Less than in his prime? Yes. but in no way would I say he played poorly or seemed lost or unsure of what he wanted to play. I just don't see the, "Oh the next chord is C," and being behind the band by the time he hits the C. He looks like he knows what he's doing in the film. I play guitar and to me he looks like he's on top of it even if he's not as fiery as he was in younger days. What is he capable of today? I don't know, but I don't think you can consider him finished on the basis of a couple of one-off shows that were not within the context of playing his own stuff with musicians he's well used to playing with. I think too many people are unfairly writing him off too soon. Let's see him after a couple months of intensive rehearsals, on stage in the company of Jagger, Wood and Watts and see how he fares. Then if he can't cut it, I'll be among the first to admit it and say he and the Stones should retire with dignity.

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stonesdan60
I think too many people are unfairly writing him off too soon.

i agree. way too many. i think it should be left to a handful of us who really understand the situation. you get some of these amateur bashers and it dilutes things for us professionals.

I don't think the Stones will ever retire. But something's gonna have to change regarding how MJ and KR resolve something that is gone, and evolve. I am perfectly happy watching KR play an L5 in open tuning, put 1 finger on the fretboard every once in a while then throw his hand up for effect. I think it's great. But how is MJ gonna adjust to that is the question? Surely not by running around pointing his finger everywhere.

interesting time...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-27 17:03 by paulm.

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paulm
I don't think the Stones will ever retire. But something's gonna have to change regarding how MJ and KR resolve something that is gone, and evolve. I am perfectly happy watching KR play an L5 in open tuning, put 1 finger on the fretboard every once in a while then throw his hand up for effect. I think it's great. But how is MJ gonna adjust to that is the question? Surely not by running around pointing his finger everywhere.

interesting time...

hmmm...seems as though we have an answer...if Keith is only using one finger nowadays, perhaps have him doing the running around pointing it, while MJ covers the guitar duties?

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Mathijs

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howled
There is a bit of a "When Jams Go Wrong" thing about it and Keith goes into a few unrelated keys for a short bit but if Keith can still bend strings and play Chuck Berry licks then where is the problem.

The only problem with Keith is his arthritis and that's not stopping him doing string bends or chords, so he can still play.

Keith might not be practicing much at the moment, who knows.

From some of the comments I read at IORR, you would think Keith can't play at all which is not true judging by this video.

What worries me though is that to play in the Chuck Berry style is really not rocket science. There's a dozen or so standard licks, which can be played in any key. These licks are really not difficult at all -brilliant, but not difficult. Once you've learned how to play these licks, something Richards did in the very early 60's and played ever since, it's just like swimming or riding a bicycle: you well always be able to play them, even when you didn't touch a guitar for 5 years. Sure it will be less fluid then, but that actually is part of the attraction of Chuck Berry styled playing.

I have said it before in a Shine a Light thread –what worries me is that his mind appears to be the problem. Ever since his brain attacks his mind seems to work slower than his fingers. On Shine a Light you can see him thinking: ‘I know this song, I’ve played it a million times, here we go to a C chord’, but at that moment the band has moved to a D chord already.

Mathijs

Mathijs, while I truly believe you are a guitarist a hundred times better than I, I need to take exception of your statement on Chuck Berry guitar playing. Yes, Chuck Berry music can be easy to play, but to nail it correctly, it ain't so easy; on those early recordings, there is way more there than what memory of those songs brings to mind. Wouldn't you agree?

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carlostones10
You can wacth video here

thanks for posting. didnt watch/listen until after i read all the comments.
so better than i expected. for something totally impromptu. it did not yet nudge
me back into the "yes" column about wanting the stones to play shows this year.
still an "undecided". but if keith keeps on pushing maybe him and mick can still
eventually find agreement on what to do. on what might work. given the realities
of the situation.

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StonesTod

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stonesdan60
I think too many people are unfairly writing him off too soon.

i agree. way too many. i think it should be left to a handful of us who really understand the situation. you get some of these amateur bashers and it dilutes things for us professionals.

I have a feeling Mick wrote him off years ago.

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Carnaby

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Mathijs

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howled
There is a bit of a "When Jams Go Wrong" thing about it and Keith goes into a few unrelated keys for a short bit but if Keith can still bend strings and play Chuck Berry licks then where is the problem.

The only problem with Keith is his arthritis and that's not stopping him doing string bends or chords, so he can still play.

Keith might not be practicing much at the moment, who knows.

From some of the comments I read at IORR, you would think Keith can't play at all which is not true judging by this video.

What worries me though is that to play in the Chuck Berry style is really not rocket science. There's a dozen or so standard licks, which can be played in any key. These licks are really not difficult at all -brilliant, but not difficult. Once you've learned how to play these licks, something Richards did in the very early 60's and played ever since, it's just like swimming or riding a bicycle: you well always be able to play them, even when you didn't touch a guitar for 5 years. Sure it will be less fluid then, but that actually is part of the attraction of Chuck Berry styled playing.

I have said it before in a Shine a Light thread –what worries me is that his mind appears to be the problem. Ever since his brain attacks his mind seems to work slower than his fingers. On Shine a Light you can see him thinking: ‘I know this song, I’ve played it a million times, here we go to a C chord’, but at that moment the band has moved to a D chord already.

Mathijs

Mathijs, while I truly believe you are a guitarist a hundred times better than I, I need to take exception of your statement on Chuck Berry guitar playing. Yes, Chuck Berry music can be easy to play, but to nail it correctly, it ain't so easy; on those early recordings, there is way more there than what memory of those songs brings to mind. Wouldn't you agree?

Good one. Yes, Berry licks are fairly simple and easy to play, but as with all music, it's not the simplicity that's the issue. The thing is - can you put it across with FEELING and move the listener. I've heard scores of bar band guitarists play Chuck Berry with perfect technical accuracy but there was no heart in it. It wsn't the same. Just like there's probably no easier intro to play than that open G chord that starts Honky Tonk Women. Your left hand doesn't even have to be on the fretboard at first. But how many people have I heard do the exact same intro in bars but it just don't sound like Keith. Factor X.

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stonesdan60
Factor X.

that's it. that's all the stones have ever had. except for mick taylor for
awhile there. i've heard tell he had some chops. enough to have even fcuked
up factor x there towards the end of his short run.

thankfully, if Taylor does do a return engagement, his chops are sufficiently
diminished now that they won't cause a problem.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-27 18:07 by superrevvy.

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StonesTod

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stonesdan60
I think too many people are unfairly writing him off too soon.

i agree. way too many. i think it should be left to a handful of us who really understand the situation. you get some of these amateur bashers and it dilutes things for us professionals.

Open your eyes, you don´t understand the situation better than anyone else here, if you would be a professional you would have noticed that Keiths guitarplaying only have worsen during the last 10 years. It´s extremly painful to suffer from arthritis from time to time, look at his fingers, do you even in your wildest dreams think that he will be able to go on a tour and play acceptable for two hours after what everyone here have seen during the last days?

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stonesdan60
What worries me though is that to play in the Chuck Berry style is really not rocket science. There's a dozen or so standard licks, which can be played in any key. These licks are really not difficult at all -brilliant, but not difficult. Once you've learned how to play these licks, something Richards did in the very early 60's and played ever since, it's just like swimming or riding a bicycle: you well always be able to play them, even when you didn't touch a guitar for 5 years. Sure it will be less fluid then, but that actually is part of the attraction of Chuck Berry styled playing.

I have said it before in a Shine a Light thread –what worries me is that his mind appears to be the problem. Ever since his brain attacks his mind seems to work slower than his fingers. On Shine a Light you can see him thinking: ‘I know this song, I’ve played it a million times, here we go to a C chord’, but at that moment the band has moved to a D chord already.

Mathijs

Maybe you saw a different SAL than I did, not to mention the audio CD for reference. I think you're reading things into what Keith is thinking and being behind the song. He looks very assured to me. Take perhaps the most Chuck Berry-style song in the set, She Was Hot. Keith is spot on and nails it from start to finish. There's no hesitation with chord changes and his Berry-inspired fills and solos are great. I think Keith's work throughout the film is top notch, especially his chord work - even if his solos are leaner than in younger years. When he's sticking to the groove, he's playing exactly what fits. My only complaint is he's lower in the mix than I'd like when he's not soloing. Play it loud through headphones. His work on JJF, All Down the Line, Shattered is superb. Funky, in the groove, yet understated. Perhaps some people mistake subtlety and understatement for not playing well. Charlie Watts doesn't go nuts like Keith Moon. I guess he's playing poorly and always has.[/quote]

haha, well, you really are watching a different SAL than I do -on She Was Hot Richards literally doesn't have a clue what song the band is playing. He figures out the first chord of the verses, and as he doesn't know the rest that's all he does: pointless noodling in G.

Mathijs

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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StonesTod

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stonesdan60
I think too many people are unfairly writing him off too soon.

i agree. way too many. i think it should be left to a handful of us who really understand the situation. you get some of these amateur bashers and it dilutes things for us professionals.

Open your eyes, you don´t understand the situation better than anyone else here, if you would be a professional you would have noticed that Keiths guitarplaying only have worsen during the last 10 years. It´s extremly painful to suffer from arthritis from time to time, look at his fingers, do you even in your wildest dreams think that he will be able to go on a tour and play acceptable for two hours after what everyone here have seen during the last days?

perhaps you didn't understand what i said. seems so.

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seitan

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Mathijs

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howled
There is a bit of a "When Jams Go Wrong" thing about it and Keith goes into a few unrelated keys for a short bit but if Keith can still bend strings and play Chuck Berry licks then where is the problem.

The only problem with Keith is his arthritis and that's not stopping him doing string bends or chords, so he can still play.

Keith might not be practicing much at the moment, who knows.

From some of the comments I read at IORR, you would think Keith can't play at all which is not true judging by this video.

What worries me though is that to play in the Chuck Berry style is really not rocket science. There's a dozen or so standard licks, which can be played in any key. These licks are really not difficult at all -brilliant, but not difficult. Once you've learned how to play these licks, something Richards did in the very early 60's and played ever since, it's just like swimming or riding a bicycle: you well always be able to play them, even when you didn't touch a guitar for 5 years. Sure it will be less fluid then, but that actually is part of the attraction of Chuck Berry styled playing.

I have said it before in a Shine a Light thread –what worries me is that his mind appears to be the problem. Ever since his brain attacks his mind seems to work slower than his fingers. On Shine a Light you can see him thinking: ‘I know this song, I’ve played it a million times, here we go to a C chord’, but at that moment the band has moved to a D chord already.

Mathijs

Mathijs - if you can read other peoples minds and you can read what they think - with your doctor skills in brain activity - then go ahead and guess what I'm thinkin about your bullshit analysis of Keith ?

It is just my observation of Richards playing in and since Shine a Light. He appears on stage very much like everything around him is a bit faster than he can comprehend.

Mathijs

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Carnaby

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Mathijs

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howled
There is a bit of a "When Jams Go Wrong" thing about it and Keith goes into a few unrelated keys for a short bit but if Keith can still bend strings and play Chuck Berry licks then where is the problem.

The only problem with Keith is his arthritis and that's not stopping him doing string bends or chords, so he can still play.

Keith might not be practicing much at the moment, who knows.

From some of the comments I read at IORR, you would think Keith can't play at all which is not true judging by this video.

What worries me though is that to play in the Chuck Berry style is really not rocket science. There's a dozen or so standard licks, which can be played in any key. These licks are really not difficult at all -brilliant, but not difficult. Once you've learned how to play these licks, something Richards did in the very early 60's and played ever since, it's just like swimming or riding a bicycle: you well always be able to play them, even when you didn't touch a guitar for 5 years. Sure it will be less fluid then, but that actually is part of the attraction of Chuck Berry styled playing.

I have said it before in a Shine a Light thread –what worries me is that his mind appears to be the problem. Ever since his brain attacks his mind seems to work slower than his fingers. On Shine a Light you can see him thinking: ‘I know this song, I’ve played it a million times, here we go to a C chord’, but at that moment the band has moved to a D chord already.

Mathijs

Mathijs, while I truly believe you are a guitarist a hundred times better than I, I need to take exception of your statement on Chuck Berry guitar playing. Yes, Chuck Berry music can be easy to play, but to nail it correctly, it ain't so easy; on those early recordings, there is way more there than what memory of those songs brings to mind. Wouldn't you agree?

The thing is -technically it isn't difficult at all. The left hand technique involved is really minimal. Of course, when you and I cover a Berry song we won't sell a million albums, something the Stones have done. Richards had a unique sense of rhythm -listen to his intro of Little Queenie on Ya Ya's. It is dead easy to play, but the sense of swing Richards is able to fuse into that intro is just incredible, and very hard to replicate.

Mathijs

It's all over now

Mathjis, I've played guitar for 35 years and am very familiar with both the Stones' and Berry's canon. As with many things which seem simple (such as Keith's own open-G playing), it is easy to grasp the surface technical part. But there are nuances in Berry's playing that even as a pro I still don't get. Part of it had to do with his mammoth-sized hands, but there are subleties to the double-stop stuff he does that not even Keith got accurately. Yes, any mediocre bar mitzvah and wedding band guitar player can play a reasonable "Johnny B Goode", but Berry's was a master and only a few have really "got" him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-27 18:34 by 71Tele.

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Maybe you saw a different SAL than I did, not to mention the audio CD for reference. I think you're reading things into what Keith is thinking and being behind the song. He looks very assured to me. Take perhaps the most Chuck Berry-style song in the set, She Was Hot. Keith is spot on and nails it from start to finish. There's no hesitation with chord changes and his Berry-inspired fills and solos are great. I think Keith's work throughout the film is top notch, especially his chord work - even if his solos are leaner than in younger years.

I have to disagree.

I think Keith has slowed and he is barely keeping up and sometimes not at all in SAL.

I think the fingers and the mind won't do what they used to do.

It's all a bit sad, but that's life.

We're all going the same way.

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71Tele
Mathjis, I've played guitar for 35 years and am very familiar with both the Stones' and Berry's canon. As with many things which seem simple (such as Keith's own open-G playing), it is easy to grasp the surface technical part. But there are nuances in Berry's playing that even as a pro I still don't get. Part of it had to do with his mammoth-sized hands, but there are subleties to the double-stop stuff he does that not even Keith got accurately. Yes, any mediocre bar mitzvah and wedding band guitar player can play a reasonable "Johnny B Goode", but Berry's was a master and only a few have really "got" him.

Yes and yes to both of you. What helps the three of us is that we feel that shuffle rhythm. I have asked technically gifted guitarists to play a Chuck Berry rhythm and they just stumble all over it; they don't "get it" is right. Crossing over into the drumming world, one could say that, technically, Watts drumming is easy, but just try to capture that nasty feel.

On the video Keith's guitar sounds very untuned

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71Tele
Mathjis, I've played guitar for 35 years and am very familiar with both the Stones' and Berry's canon. As with many things which seem simple (such as Keith's own open-G playing), it is easy to grasp the surface technical part. But there are nuances in Berry's playing that even as a pro I still don't get. Part of it had to do with his mammoth-sized hands, but there are subleties to the double-stop stuff he does that not even Keith got accurately. Yes, any mediocre bar mitzvah and wedding band guitar player can play a reasonable "Johnny B Goode", but Berry's was a master and only a few have really "got" him.

Spot on. Some things aren't as simple as they may seem.

www.rsundercover.eu

The whole video of the ceremony is here, at the Dirty Rock Youtube Channel beside three videos posted here, enjoy!!!
[www.youtube.com]

Carlitos Tenerife

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71Tele
Mathjis, I've played guitar for 35 years and am very familiar with both the Stones' and Berry's canon. As with many things which seem simple (such as Keith's own open-G playing), it is easy to grasp the surface technical part. But there are nuances in Berry's playing that even as a pro I still don't get. Part of it had to do with his mammoth-sized hands, but there are subleties to the double-stop stuff he does that not even Keith got accurately. Yes, any mediocre bar mitzvah and wedding band guitar player can play a reasonable "Johnny B Goode", but Berry's was a master and only a few have really "got" him.

We're both saying the same thing, I totally agree. It's what I meant with the intro of Little Queenie -first grade guitar school stuff, but impossible to replicate by mere mortals like us.

Check out the first two videos in this thread -the guy has all the technicalities spot on, but in the end he totally misses the mark with his sound and his dead-on timing.

My point with Richards with Costello is: it sounds like Keith hasn't touched a guitar in four years, and has lost his sense of rhythm completely. I personally don't mind, as I am not waiting for a 2012 tour at all. But for the people and press waiting for this to happen, I think the last two public outings of Richards is just plain bad news.

Mathijs