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tomcasagranda
The thing is: I used to love them madly, but the end of it for me was that they no longer light my fire. The Forever Changing Elektra boxed set showcased far better artists on Elektra at the time.


I also think that, having listened to Love, and Paul Butterfield Blues Band, that the Doors cheated them of deserved success. Circa 1966, and Jim Morrison said that he wanted the Doors to be "As big as Love". Forever Changes got totally consumed by The Doors first album, yet Forever Changes was, at least in my opinion, a greater album. The Doors signed to Elektra Records as Butterfield and Love were on the label. Certainly, the Butterfield Blues Band were far better, musician-wise, than the Doors.

I think the fact is that the reissue thing kicked into overdrive, and, in my opinion, they should've left it to just the albums issued.

Yeah I completely agree in regards to Forever changes being a superior album. I wouldn't dare trying to diminish The Doors and the great legacy they left behind, but what also set them apart besides their musical accomplishments was a special kind of appeal that helped them draw the teenage audiences for generations to come. I can still recall not many people ever even hearing for the likes of Grateful Dead, let alone Love back in my high school days. The Stones were mostly known for a couple of grand hits but The Doors remained universally acknowledged by all having even a slightest interest in rock music. Jim Morrison simply had that presence that spoke to people yearning to identify with someone cool, erratic and timeless. That has as much to do with their popularity as their brilliant music. I can think of many superior vocalists but Jim has something intangible, a kind of reckless attitude trickling from every word much in the vein of Ian Curtis a decade later.

Still it's kinda sad that Love never truly moved beyond being recognized by a handful of rock aficionados



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-18 01:59 by stones_serb.

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jamesfdouglas

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tomcasagranda
I would add even the Grateful Dead don't have such a posthumous reissue series.

You.
Can't.
Be.
Serious.

[en.wikipedia.org]

those aren't reissues they are newly released concerts

Since "Forever Changes" is one of say, oh I don't know, the *five* greatest LPs ever, there is no shame in being lesser. "Morrison Hotel" is #27 btw.

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hbwriter
what's funny, Densmore just spoke in my son's class at USC - and he didn't mention those guys! clearly, there is a divide

I read Ray Manzarek's autobiography, LIGHT MY FIRE, and he trashed Densmore at every turn. It was bizarre how vicious he was toward Densmore. Krieger said that book created bad blood between them. I'm not surprised.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-18 05:31 by Title5Take1.

I personally have grown to really like the 1978 album "An American Prayer". I know some have said that it was made beyond Morrison's original intent for the poetry but I could care less about that. I actually consider it to be a brilliant album.

The music and the poetry mesh beautifully together. I think it is highly underrated. There isn't a track on it that I don't like. It is one record that gets played in its entirety every time.

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keefriffhard4life

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jamesfdouglas

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tomcasagranda
I would add even the Grateful Dead don't have such a posthumous reissue series.

You.
Can't.
Be.
Serious.

[en.wikipedia.org]

those aren't reissues they are newly released concerts

Well most of what has been released in recent years by The Doors has been the Bright Midnight Archives, which are newly released concerts. Has their studio work been recycled any more than say, The Stones? I only know of the original CD releases, then the 40th Anniversary releases. Are there others I don't know about?

I think what started the reverence towards the Doors was a Rolling Stone front page with a picture of Jim Morrison, entitled "He's Hot, He's Sexy, He's Dead".

Morrison was a charismatic, good looking chap (up until 1969), and people, particularly teenagers at sixth form, or at university, bought into the leather-clad lizard king image, albeit posthumously. The bearded figure that made LA Woman wasn't much of a concern.

What also happened was that a hagiography by Danny Sugerman came out, entitled "No One Here Gets Out Alive", which traced the life and probable death of Morrison. The cover of this book showcased the leather-clad, bare-torsoed lizard king.

Morrison also gave good copy to journalists when interviewed, unlike Dylan who tended to obfuscate, or Lennon who tended, in the 60s at least, to be sarcastic. There was, with Morrison, a sense of being anarchic.

However, when the alleged flashing incident took place in Miami in 1969, it was not, ostensibly, a drunken moment, but rather Morrison trying to re-enact Judith Molina and Julian Beck's Living Theatre, wherein productions took place with audience members and actors getting naked.

Then, you start to feel that Morrison had literary pretensions way beyond his Doors status. Upon closer analysis, that certainly is true. For example, the Oedipal re-enactment of The End, calling a song Not To Touch The Earth after Frazer's Golden Bough anthropological discourse on the taboo, and when myth turns to science in society, and using Irish Celtic mythology for The Crystal Ship.

I would add that people recently pilloried Dylan for using Yakuza in Love & Theft, and Ovid's Tristia within Modern Times. Yet Morrison's literary skimmings, coupled with sub-Jimmy Smith organ-playing, go relatively unscathed.

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tomcasagranda
I think what started the reverence towards the Doors was a Rolling Stone front page with a picture of Jim Morrison, entitled "He's Hot, He's Sexy, He's Dead".

Morrison was a charismatic, good looking chap (up until 1969), and people, particularly teenagers at sixth form, or at university, bought into the leather-clad lizard king image, albeit posthumously. The bearded figure that made LA Woman wasn't much of a concern.

What also happened was that a hagiography by Danny Sugerman came out, entitled "No One Here Gets Out Alive", which traced the life and probable death of Morrison. The cover of this book showcased the leather-clad, bare-torsoed lizard king.

Morrison also gave good copy to journalists when interviewed, unlike Dylan who tended to obfuscate, or Lennon who tended, in the 60s at least, to be sarcastic. There was, with Morrison, a sense of being anarchic.

However, when the alleged flashing incident took place in Miami in 1969, it was not, ostensibly, a drunken moment, but rather Morrison trying to re-enact Judith Molina and Julian Beck's Living Theatre, wherein productions took place with audience members and actors getting naked.

Then, you start to feel that Morrison had literary pretensions way beyond his Doors status. Upon closer analysis, that certainly is true. For example, the Oedipal re-enactment of The End, calling a song Not To Touch The Earth after Frazer's Golden Bough anthropological discourse on the taboo, and when myth turns to science in society, and using Irish Celtic mythology for The Crystal Ship.

I would add that people recently pilloried Dylan for using Yakuza in Love & Theft, and Ovid's Tristia within Modern Times. Yet Morrison's literary skimmings, coupled with sub-Jimmy Smith organ-playing, go relatively unscathed.

Could be that the music just sounds good. I could care less if he's sexy, fat, has a beard. I never really cared for the Lizard King persona, or paid all that much attention to the lyrics. I liked the music before I even really knew who Jim was. I've just always been more of a fan of the band than the singer. I like Krieger's playing style. And The Doors had a very unique sound. Sometimes I'm in the mood for it, sometimes I'm not.

I think the surviving members of the band are very forthcoming with where their sound comes from, and admit to straight up stealing certain things and being inspired by others. And in interviews I've seen don't really try to perpetuate the Jim Morrison myth. In the Classic Albums documentary about their debut album, one of them (I think Krieger) speaks to all the aspiring artists/musicians who may be watching and says that self-destruction and creativity don't go hand-in-hand, and points out that Picasso lived to be 91.

Funnily enough, it was Robbie that wrote one of my favourite Doors tunes, i.e. Spanish Caravan.

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NoCode0680

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keefriffhard4life

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jamesfdouglas

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tomcasagranda
I would add even the Grateful Dead don't have such a posthumous reissue series.

You.
Can't.
Be.
Serious.

[en.wikipedia.org]

those aren't reissues they are newly released concerts

Well most of what has been released in recent years by The Doors has been the Bright Midnight Archives, which are newly released concerts. Has their studio work been recycled any more than say, The Stones? I only know of the original CD releases, then the 40th Anniversary releases. Are there others I don't know about?

well i think the person was talking about how many greatest hits sets the doors have released plus a disc on the boxset that was a waste of space.

Fact is that there will never be another Colossus to prowl the stage like Jim Morrison, Jagger, Elvis, Hendrix, Mercury, Iggy, Plant, Roger Daltry. Ever

Rock is dead.

The Doors will always rule in my book.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-18 14:45 by Youngie.

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tomcasagranda

I also think that, having listened to Love, and Paul Butterfield Blues Band, that the Doors cheated them of deserved success. Circa 1966, and Jim Morrison said that he wanted the Doors to be "As big as Love". Forever Changes got totally consumed by The Doors first album, yet Forever Changes was, at least in my opinion, a greater album. The Doors signed to Elektra Records as Butterfield and Love were on the label. Certainly, the Butterfield Blues Band were far better, musician-wise, than the Doors.

I think the fact is that the reissue thing kicked into overdrive, and, in my opinion, they should've left it to just the albums issued.

I've been patiently reading this thread and I can't help but say it. You are full of shit and an @#$%&. If you don't like the Doors reissues, don't buy them. Are there many people happy about the open vaults? Yes, so why don't you STFU.

Zack,

You troll

Another interesting fact about Jim Morrison is that he earned a college degree.

I wonder how many other musicians can make that claim.

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tomcasagranda
Zack,

You troll

Yeah, right. Check out how many years I've been registered on this board compared to three whole months you've been here. (I predict you won't last long.)

All you have done in this Doors thread is crap on it. But when you blame the Doors for the failure of Forever Changes and the fact that the Butterfield albums weren't more successful, I'm calling you out. Forever Changes is a brilliant, yet quirky and commercially inaccessible album. The first two Butterfield albums are great, Bloomfield about my favorite guitarist ever, but their blues purism was derivative and talent is only one element of the formula for success. The Doors music was fresh, utterly original, and contained a hint of menace within a commercially appealing package. You are entitled to your opinion, which is invariably negative, but when you step into waters you know nothing about, it's time to say enough.

Zack - let it go - Rise above the Smut!!!

Your terminology, Zack, belies reasoned argument, if you consider your use of the Anglo Saxon vernacular within this argument.

What I have tried to do is to give a reasoned, balanced argument as to why The Doors are over-rated. Do I sound as if I know nothing about the Doors ? I have cited the fact that I have listened to The Doors, and admit that there are some tracks I have a sneaking admiration, indeed a liking for. I have also cited Sugarman's book, and have mentioned the box set that came out years' ago.

I really like the LA Woman reissue, the 40th anniversary masters,and some of the high-quality soundboard concerts that have been released in the last few years. The Doors were a great band and Ray remains a very cool, if a bit opportunistic, guy.

The Doors overrated? LOL

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Zack
I really like the LA Woman reissue, the 40th anniversary masters,and some of the high-quality soundboard concerts that have been released in the last few years. The Doors were a great band and Ray remains a very cool, if a bit opportunistic, guy.

i would say ray is opportunistic but this is what the fans want. go over to the doors message board and you'll see dozens of posts asking for specific concerts to be released

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keefriffhard4life

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Zack
I really like the LA Woman reissue, the 40th anniversary masters,and some of the high-quality soundboard concerts that have been released in the last few years. The Doors were a great band and Ray remains a very cool, if a bit opportunistic, guy.

i would say ray is opportunistic but this is what the fans want. go over to the doors message board and you'll see dozens of posts asking for specific concerts to be released

My point exactly! Doors concerts were events because you never know what was going to happen! Boston, for example, was a document of what unfortunately took place from time to time. A great listen? No. Part of rock and roll history? Yes.

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Zack

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keefriffhard4life

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Zack
I really like the LA Woman reissue, the 40th anniversary masters,and some of the high-quality soundboard concerts that have been released in the last few years. The Doors were a great band and Ray remains a very cool, if a bit opportunistic, guy.

i would say ray is opportunistic but this is what the fans want. go over to the doors message board and you'll see dozens of posts asking for specific concerts to be released

My point exactly! Doors concerts were events because you never know what was going to happen! Boston, for example, was a document of what unfortunately took place from time to time. A great listen? No. Part of rock and roll history? Yes.

whats cool so far is each concert has a different feel. boston the band is on top of their game to make up for jim being drunk. the new york boxset actually shows the doors at their wildest yet in control of themselves. the vancouver show is really bluesy throughout. the matrix is a young hungry doors. pittsburgh is a very somber subdued portrait of the band.

Just watching "The Doors: Live at the Hollywood Bowl" in high def on Palladia channel. This was recorded July 5, 1968. It is on now/almost over, but they usually reshow these things... if you are a fan, look for it.... always fun to see stuff like this in high def, for free.


fwiw- from wiki
CD 1987 version

"Wake Up" – 1:40
"Light My Fire" – 8:15
"The Unknown Soldier" – 4:23
"A Little Game" – 1:22
"The Hill Dwellers" – 2:20
"Spanish Caravan" – 1:19
"Light My Fire" (edit of live version) – 3:24

Tracks 1, 4, and 5 are from "Celebration of the Lizard"
2012 version ("Live at the Bowl '68" )

Show Start/Intro – 0:19
"When the Music's Over" – 12:52
"Alabama Song (Whisky Bar)" – 1:33
"Back Door Man" – 2:33
"Five to One" – 1:29
"Back Door Man" (Reprise) – 1:22
"The WASP (Texas Radio and the Big Beat)" – 1:52
"Hello, I Love You" – 2:14
"Moonlight Drive" – 3:21
"Horse Latitudes" – 1:08
"A Little Game" – 1:20
"The Hill Dwellers" – 2:22
"Spanish Caravan" – 3:04
"Hey, What Would You Guys Like To Hear?" – 0:40
"Wake Up!" – 1:30
"Light My Fire" – 9:32
"Light My Fire" (Segue) – 0:38
"The Unknown Soldier" – 4:43
"The End" (Segue) – 1:02
"The End" – 17:31

Track listing DVD
1987/2000 version

"When the Music's Over"
"Alabama Song (Whiskey Bar)"
"Back Door Man"
"Five to One"
"Texas Radio and the Big Beat" - Video & Audio was damaged during recording, and subsequently removed from all recordings
"Hello, I Love You" - Video & Audio was damaged during recording, and subsequently removed from all recordings
"Moonlight Drive"
"Horse Latitudes"
"A Little Game" - Excerpt From The Celebration OF The Lizard1 "The Hill Dwellers" - Excerpt From The Celebration Of The Lizard
"Spanish Caravan" - Edit Version
"Wake Up"
"Light My Fire"
"The Unknown Soldier"
"The End"

2012 version

Show Start/Intro
"When The Music’s Over"
"Alabama Song (Whisky Bar)"
"Back Door Man"
"Five To One"
"Back Door Man" (Reprise)
"The WASP" (Texas Radio And The Big Beat)
"Hello, I Love You"
"Moonlight Drive"
"Horse Latitudes"
"A Little Game"
"The Hill Dwellers"
"Spanish Caravan"
"Hey, What Would You Guys Like To Hear?"
"Wake Up!"
"Light My Fire" (Segue)
"Light My Fire"
"The Unknown Soldier"
"The End" (Segue)
"The End"

or maybe try this...



or






Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2013-02-02 08:32 by Max'sKansasCity.

somebody should put on the album L.A. WOMAN and play the whole album



Track List:
1.The Changeling (00:00)
2.Love Her Madly (4:21)
3.Been Down So Long (7:42)
4.Cars Hyss By My Window (12:24)
5.L.A. Woman (16:36)
6.L'America (24:32)
7.Hyacinth House (29:11)
8.Crawling King Snake (32:22)
9.The Wasp (Texas Radio And The Big Beat 37:23)
10.Riders On The Storm (41:40)

All this image, fan talk, rock magazine talk Zzzzzzzzzzz!

I actually remember when I'd turn on the radio and hear "Light My Fire" and think wow what a great song and I didn't know the Doors from a Door.

Same with JJF and Satisfaction, when I first heard then I didn't know anything about the Stones but wow what great songs.

Now there is image everywhere and it of course also existed in the 60s but the video/image combo sells a load of seemingly inferior songs IMO.

I had no image of the Stones and Doors etc when I first heard them and it was all about the song and how good it was, to me anyway.

Most Rock "stars" are/were not really stupid and they know that image sells to fans and can play on it, but it's the songs from the 60s/70s that still hold up today but the image is but a old distant thing from the past.

There is a great bit at the end of "Light My Fire" where Jim is putting everything into it and the chords change into more tension and the whole mood of the song changes from what it started out as, great stuff and pretty rare in it's impact but copied a lot by others who came later, in an inferior way.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-02-02 09:21 by howled.

i have the 2012 version of the hollywood bowl on dvd. it has some cool extras like performances from some tv shows.

the doors were one of the all time great bands but i hate the fact their setlist rarely changed from 1968-1970. they seemed to draw from the same pool of songs pretty much every show and would throw in a rare track every now and again

I think audiences tend to like songs they know.

It would of been interesting if the original Doors members were still active together in the 70s and 80s etc.

But can't rewrite history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-02-02 10:10 by howled.

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howled
I think audiences tend to like songs they know.

It would of been interesting if the original Doors members were still active together in the 70s and 80s etc.

But can't rewrite history.

funny enough on a lot of doors concerts you can hear members of the audience yelling for songs that the doors rarely played. the doors rarely played "hello i love you" and "touch me" despite both being huge hits.

Depends on what the band wanted to do as well as what the audience might want.

Maybe some of them didn't like "Hello I Love You" much or thought it turned out too close to the Kinks.





It's interesting that if it was up to Keith there might not have been Satisfaction or "Start Me Up".

Having read all this, my friends & I became fans of The Doors in the mid-80s as teenagers - I found a tape of the 'Weird Scenes Inside The Goldmine' compilation & we were hooked. With time it died down, but I'll always like them - especially the 1st 2 & last 2 albums. And from what I've read (if that means anything!), I tend to think that the problems that came up from late 68 onwards were due to the pressure in those days of having to continue to put out albums/singles & tour. And it was the case for all artists at the time, at least 1-2 albums per year.

As for the reissues, it doesn't seem that long since there were front page headlines in Mojo etc about LA Woman's 40th Anniversary, plus myself buying the CD (since my vinyl then 1st CD copy had become unplayable). So I can't justify buying another, but then I'm sure that there's always another generation of teenagers who are trying to find different music other than what's current. They'll start with a 'best of' then look into the albums.......

Actually I wouldn't mind 'Weird Scenes.....' being released on CD - It was the perfect intro.......