Tell Me :
Talk
That did occur to me
But would JJF on Beggars have altered the whole feel and balance of the album more than HTW would LIB ?
...and what if Child of the Moon had been on Beggars ? ...now that is a headf^&*
JJF is mostly electrics.
Only 1 acoustic was used for the basic cassette take. All other guitars are electric.
It feels electric because it mostly is.
It has the same amount of acoustics as Satisfaction... 1.
Jumpin' Jack Flash is all acoustic guitars. It's been spoken about for eons.
(I used a) Gibson Hummingbird (acoustic) tuned to open D, six string. Open D or open E, which is the same thing - same intervals - but it would be slackened down some for D. Then there was a capo on it, to get that really tight sound. And there was another guitar over the top of that, but tuned to Nashville tuning. I learned that from somebody in George Jones' band in San Antonio in (1964)... (The high-strung guitar) was an acoustic, too. Both acoustics were put through a Phillips cassette recorder. Just jam the mic right in the guitar and play it back through an extension speaker.
- Keith Richards, 2002
With Jumpin' Jack Flash and Street Fighting Man I'd discovered a new sound I could get out of an acoustic guitar. That grinding, dirty sound came out of these crummy little motels where the only thing you had to record with was this new invention called the cassette recorder... Playing an acoustic, you'd overload the Philips cassette player to the point of distortion so that when it played back it was effectively an electric guitar...There are no electric instruments on Street Fighting Man at all... All acoustic guitars. Jumpin' Jack Flash the same. I wish I could still do that, but they don't build machines like that anymore.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)
[timeisonourside.com]
Actually, that it was 'all acoustic' is a relatively recent addition to Keith's memories of recording Jumpin' Jack Flash.
I'll take Keith's more closer to the event and detailed word about it circa 1970 etc rather than his later blurred mis-remembering decades later.
The very process he described soon after he had recorded them does not allow for overdubbing using that process. They recorded a basic rhythmic based take on to the cassette. This was then played back and captured to 1 track of the 8 track. There ended the cassette recorders use in the recording of each of the 3 songs it was used for.
Note the overdubbed acoustic on SFM and the overdubbed acoustics and electric on PW are nice and clear as per normal recording. There's a reason for that. The cassette recorder and the way in which they utilised it could not be used for overdubbing. 1 pass and 1 pass only.
Also, good luck playing anything after the 14th fret on a Hummingbird which would be required for playing the electric guitar parts on JJF if tuned to open D with capo on 2nd fret.
I have the very same machine he used. It doesn't make the acoustic sound electric, it just distorts it like using a dirt pedal on a recording of an acoustic. Some of the dirt comes from the playback. A different sound to an electric guitar.
There are about 6 guitars on JJF. Only 1 of them is acoustic. The electric guitars are very much the sound of Vox Supreme and Triumph Silicon 100. Both of which I have owned.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-07 11:20 by His Majesty.
Why does the intro to JJF sound so wobbly? It almost sounds like a warped vinyl record, but it sounds like that on CD, too.
There is a slight wobble on the cassette recording. The electric guitars are fine pitch wise.
Sacrilege! Unmajestic!
Salt of the Earth is crap.
Now you live up to the second part of my former post!
Talk about your favorite band.
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Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
steffiestones
()
Date: August 6, 2019 07:55
Looking for vinyl - Beggarsbanquet with JJFlash on it ?
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: August 6, 2019 12:15
On CD: [www.Discogs.com] .
You could make your own Vinyl-Edition:
One-off Vinyl dubplate cutting service in London (UK): [VinylCarvers.com] .
One-Cut Vinyl, UK-based: [www.OneCutVinyl.com] . Handmade Vinyl-Records: [beevinyl.com] .
Record Manufacturing (near Austin TX, USA): [www.OneGrooveVinyl.com] .
Vinyl single-piece, Bologna (IT): [www.Vinilificio.com] .
One-off Vinyl, Berlin (DE): [www.AnalogcutMastering.com] -- 12" Dubplate = 32 EUR.
You can buy the single Tracks needed for the cutting in HiRes-Quality e.g. on [www.Qobuz.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] .
Hi-Res Front-Cover: Mono-Toilet , RSVP.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 13:25 by Irix.
You could make your own Vinyl-Edition:
One-off Vinyl dubplate cutting service in London (UK): [VinylCarvers.com] .
One-Cut Vinyl, UK-based: [www.OneCutVinyl.com] . Handmade Vinyl-Records: [beevinyl.com] .
Record Manufacturing (near Austin TX, USA): [www.OneGrooveVinyl.com] .
Vinyl single-piece, Bologna (IT): [www.Vinilificio.com] .
One-off Vinyl, Berlin (DE): [www.AnalogcutMastering.com] -- 12" Dubplate = 32 EUR.
You can buy the single Tracks needed for the cutting in HiRes-Quality e.g. on [www.Qobuz.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] .
Hi-Res Front-Cover: Mono-Toilet , RSVP.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 13:25 by Irix.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: August 6, 2019 12:34
Why is it that when I imagine JJF on Beggars it just seems "wrong" ...
...But if I imagine the electric HTW on LIB, it feels OK ?
...But if I imagine the electric HTW on LIB, it feels OK ?
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: August 6, 2019 13:07
…...eeeerrrr cause your a bleedin' dreamer …..
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: August 6, 2019 13:28
Thanks for the info lrix!
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: August 6, 2019 14:20
Quote
Rockman
…...eeeerrrr cause your a bleedin' dreamer …..
That did occur to me
But would JJF on Beggars have altered the whole feel and balance of the album more than HTW would LIB ?
...and what if Child of the Moon had been on Beggars ? ...now that is a headf^&*
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Ross
()
Date: August 6, 2019 15:16
Dandelion and We Love You certainly would have made a difference on TSMR. Maybe drop Gomper?
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: August 6, 2019 17:49
Stop it !
as if my head isn't fried enough
as if my head isn't fried enough
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 6, 2019 17:53
Are you envisioning JJF in addition the existing BB, or subbing for a song? I can't imagine BB missing a single note.
On a side note I heard Dave Kusworth last night doing "Child of the Moon".
On a side note I heard Dave Kusworth last night doing "Child of the Moon".
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: August 6, 2019 18:19
I'd dump Dear Doctor and Factory Girl for Jumpin' Jack Flash and Child of the Moon in a hot minute.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 18:24 by boogaloojef.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 18:24 by boogaloojef.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: August 6, 2019 18:24
I can't imagine Beggars without any of the existing tracks either...
..But I feel the addition of JJF would have altered the character of the whole album noticeably...depending to a degree on where in the track listing it was positioned .
I'm not sure where I'd put it ?
..But I feel the addition of JJF would have altered the character of the whole album noticeably...depending to a degree on where in the track listing it was positioned .
I'm not sure where I'd put it ?
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
redkev
()
Date: August 6, 2019 19:21
I think BB has a slightly accoustic feel to it whereas even though JJF was technically recorded using an accoustic guitar it still feels too "electric" when compared to BB.
I think that JJF would fit better on LIB than BB.
In fact if you replaced Country Honk with HTW and put JJF as the first song of side 2 on LIB (keeping everything else as it is) you would have the greatest album ever made.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 19:36 by redkev.
I think that JJF would fit better on LIB than BB.
In fact if you replaced Country Honk with HTW and put JJF as the first song of side 2 on LIB (keeping everything else as it is) you would have the greatest album ever made.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 19:36 by redkev.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: August 6, 2019 19:38
JJF - the open tunings and acoustic guitar make it sound thunderous and I prefer
it on BB. Street Fighting Man is also acoustic in open tunings and sounds the same
it on BB. Street Fighting Man is also acoustic in open tunings and sounds the same
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: August 6, 2019 21:13
I think JJF works as the second cut on either side one, after SFTD, or side two, after SFM. I'm not sure Child of the Moon fits anywhere. JJF would have given it extra punch, the single the album lacks. I don't see where HTW fits on Let It Bleed.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 02:18
Put JJF first and put SFTD in place of SOTE and kick SOTE in to the world of bootlegs.
Boom, strong timeless opener and closer.
Boom, strong timeless opener and closer.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 02:19
Quote
OpenG
JJF - the open tunings and acoustic guitar make it sound thunderous and I prefer
it on BB. Street Fighting Man is also acoustic in open tunings and sounds the same
JJF is mostly electrics.
Only 1 acoustic was used for the basic cassette take. All other guitars are electric.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 02:21
Quote
redkev
I think BB has a slightly accoustic feel to it whereas even though JJF was technically recorded using an accoustic guitar it still feels too "electric" when compared to BB.
It feels electric because it mostly is.
It has the same amount of acoustics as Satisfaction... 1.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: August 7, 2019 02:37
Quote
His MajestyQuote
OpenG
JJF - the open tunings and acoustic guitar make it sound thunderous and I prefer
it on BB. Street Fighting Man is also acoustic in open tunings and sounds the same
JJF is mostly electrics.
Only 1 acoustic was used for the basic cassette take. All other guitars are electric.
Quote
His MajestyQuote
redkev
I think BB has a slightly accoustic feel to it whereas even though JJF was technically recorded using an accoustic guitar it still feels too "electric" when compared to BB.
It feels electric because it mostly is.
It has the same amount of acoustics as Satisfaction... 1.
Jumpin' Jack Flash is all acoustic guitars. It's been spoken about for eons.
(I used a) Gibson Hummingbird (acoustic) tuned to open D, six string. Open D or open E, which is the same thing - same intervals - but it would be slackened down some for D. Then there was a capo on it, to get that really tight sound. And there was another guitar over the top of that, but tuned to Nashville tuning. I learned that from somebody in George Jones' band in San Antonio in (1964)... (The high-strung guitar) was an acoustic, too. Both acoustics were put through a Phillips cassette recorder. Just jam the mic right in the guitar and play it back through an extension speaker.
- Keith Richards, 2002
With Jumpin' Jack Flash and Street Fighting Man I'd discovered a new sound I could get out of an acoustic guitar. That grinding, dirty sound came out of these crummy little motels where the only thing you had to record with was this new invention called the cassette recorder... Playing an acoustic, you'd overload the Philips cassette player to the point of distortion so that when it played back it was effectively an electric guitar...There are no electric instruments on Street Fighting Man at all... All acoustic guitars. Jumpin' Jack Flash the same. I wish I could still do that, but they don't build machines like that anymore.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)
[timeisonourside.com]
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 02:44
He say's that ages later, but it's just not the case. No Nashville tuning either.
He described the process better before. Record on to the cassette, play it back through a loud speaker with a Mic on it and that gets recorded to 1 track of the 8 track.
The process of using the cassette recorder only allows for a one pass use. He can't overdub with it and they don't really make the acoustic sound like an electric. It just murks and distorts the acoustic sound.
The 1 acoustic cassette recording on JJF is audible on the left speaker, it's a muffled driving sound. Everything else, including some of the bright guitars heard on the left speaker is electrics overdubbed via the usual multitrack means.
He used this process for 3 songs. 1 acoustic with supporting percussion from Charlie recorded to the cassette recorder for SFM, JJF and PW with varying degrees of dirt/mukryness for each song. SFM being the most extreme.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-07 02:52 by His Majesty.
He described the process better before. Record on to the cassette, play it back through a loud speaker with a Mic on it and that gets recorded to 1 track of the 8 track.
The process of using the cassette recorder only allows for a one pass use. He can't overdub with it and they don't really make the acoustic sound like an electric. It just murks and distorts the acoustic sound.
The 1 acoustic cassette recording on JJF is audible on the left speaker, it's a muffled driving sound. Everything else, including some of the bright guitars heard on the left speaker is electrics overdubbed via the usual multitrack means.
He used this process for 3 songs. 1 acoustic with supporting percussion from Charlie recorded to the cassette recorder for SFM, JJF and PW with varying degrees of dirt/mukryness for each song. SFM being the most extreme.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-07 02:52 by His Majesty.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: August 7, 2019 02:53
I'll take Keith's (and various others) word about it.
I've recorded with various cassette recorders and managed to get the acoustic to sound like an electric. Apparently they were able to do it with the 8 track.
I've recorded with various cassette recorders and managed to get the acoustic to sound like an electric. Apparently they were able to do it with the 8 track.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 03:03
Quote
GasLightStreet
I'll take Keith's (and various others) word about it.
I've recorded with various cassette recorders and managed to get the acoustic to sound like an electric. Apparently they were able to do it with the 8 track.
Actually, that it was 'all acoustic' is a relatively recent addition to Keith's memories of recording Jumpin' Jack Flash.
I'll take Keith's more closer to the event and detailed word about it circa 1970 etc rather than his later blurred mis-remembering decades later.
The very process he described soon after he had recorded them does not allow for overdubbing using that process. They recorded a basic rhythmic based take on to the cassette. This was then played back and captured to 1 track of the 8 track. There ended the cassette recorders use in the recording of each of the 3 songs it was used for.
Note the overdubbed acoustic on SFM and the overdubbed acoustics and electric on PW are nice and clear as per normal recording. There's a reason for that. The cassette recorder and the way in which they utilised it could not be used for overdubbing. 1 pass and 1 pass only.
Also, good luck playing anything after the 14th fret on a Hummingbird which would be required for playing the electric guitar parts on JJF if tuned to open D with capo on 2nd fret.
I have the very same machine he used. It doesn't make the acoustic sound electric, it just distorts it like using a dirt pedal on a recording of an acoustic. Some of the dirt comes from the playback. A different sound to an electric guitar.
There are about 6 guitars on JJF. Only 1 of them is acoustic. The electric guitars are very much the sound of Vox Supreme and Triumph Silicon 100. Both of which I have owned.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-07 11:20 by His Majesty.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 03:32
oops, double post.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-07 03:33 by His Majesty.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-07 03:33 by His Majesty.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: August 7, 2019 05:18
JJF should have been on BB, I understand why it wasn't, and HTW on LIB replacing Country Honk and making Country Honk the b-side to the lead A-side single, Gimme Shelter.
I'd also squeeze Child of the Moon on BB, but if there was a way to travel in time and give the glimmers COTM for release on TSMR, I'd put it on there instead, along with Dandelion and We Love You, removing GOMPER and See What Happens.
Now, you improved 2 of the BIG 4, which almost seems impossible to do, and elevated TSMR to potentially be one of the "BIG 5".
I'd also squeeze Child of the Moon on BB, but if there was a way to travel in time and give the glimmers COTM for release on TSMR, I'd put it on there instead, along with Dandelion and We Love You, removing GOMPER and See What Happens.
Now, you improved 2 of the BIG 4, which almost seems impossible to do, and elevated TSMR to potentially be one of the "BIG 5".
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
marianna
()
Date: August 7, 2019 11:23
Quote
GasLightStreet
I'll take Keith's (and various others) word about it.
I've recorded with various cassette recorders and managed to get the acoustic to sound like an electric. Apparently they were able to do it with the 8 track.
Why does the intro to JJF sound so wobbly? It almost sounds like a warped vinyl record, but it sounds like that on CD, too.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 11:45
Quote
marianna
Why does the intro to JJF sound so wobbly? It almost sounds like a warped vinyl record, but it sounds like that on CD, too.
There is a slight wobble on the cassette recording. The electric guitars are fine pitch wise.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: August 7, 2019 12:44
Quote
His Majesty
Put JJF first and put SFTD in place of SOTE and kick SOTE in to the world of bootlegs.
Boom, strong timeless opener and closer.
Sacrilege! Unmajestic!
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 12:46
Quote
Witness
Sacrilege! Unmajestic!
Salt of the Earth is crap.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2019 12:50
Without destroying the dynamics of BB the only song that has to go to make room for JJF is SCB. But SCB was too strong for that. Hence JJF was a natural single and wisely left off the album, imo.
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: August 7, 2019 12:52
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Witness
Sacrilege! Unmajestic!
Salt of the Earth is crap.
Now you live up to the second part of my former post!
Re: Beggarsbanquet edition with JJFlash on it ?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2019 13:13
Quote
Witness
Now you live up to the second part of my former post!
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