Leave Mick's solo songs where they are.

There are plenty of outtakes that could make DW sound less harsh and more in line with their usual output. I have made at least a dozen of alternative dirty works - and they all truly sound great, with a more balanced mix of Jagger singing styles, melodies etc.

But at the end of the day these collections are not the "dirty work", they all miss the point in the production, which was not to uncover the tension between the twins, but to put it right there under the spotlight in a concentrated 30 something minutes LP (shortest since the first 60's albums?) - something only a band like the stones could do.

All the big albums until Dirty Work (with the notably exception of Exile) were albums that reflected the times (fashions, politics, environments, arts) when they were made. Sort of the Stones take of them.

Dirty Work is mainly and above all a representation of what the Stones were in the middle of the 80. And of the big issues between Mick and Keith, Charlie's addiction, Ian's death, etc. all things that were tearing the band apart.

Stupid production?

To each their own. But I think that it would be interesting if we started considering the merits of the production in the stones work, all calls are M&K's after all. It gives a new dimension to their work.

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-20 12:56 by liddas.

yep. It's an angry album and it's not the usual stuff. That's why it works.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about folks that claim to love DW, & discuss it so compulsively and defend it over and over, thread after thread, etc. as if they think by saying it enough that they might convince the naysayers that a piece of shite somehow is beyond their grasp of understanding of how brilliant it is. .. Kind of strange that folks don't just see things differently each thread...

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MadMax
DW is a greta little album, it ain't Exile but it pisses over everything else done that year. And DW, Hold Back, BTZ, HIWY and Fight are masterpieces.

IT IS AN ANGRY record for God's sake. Ain't suppose to listen to it when you're happy an' in love, but when the sh*t hits the fan it is a GREAT album to recieve strenght from.

Are all you IORRians happily married, rich play boys or what?!?!?!

I ain't no Keith Richards/Mick Jagger rich, if that's the question?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-20 16:07 by treaclefingers.

This song gets bashed a lot here. I fail to see why?

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

It has been fun/amusing to peruse this thread (and other similar threads) reading the preaching disdain for this album (and a couple of other Stones albums)... it is funny to imagine some with pencils tighly clinched in teeth, noses pointed to the sky, as they blather on and on telling us how to feel about this album, and if we dont agree/submit then we must be a particular type of fan. LOL, uh OK.... anyway.... if you are not too busy, could you tell us a couple of hundred more times how you demand us to feel about "Dirty Work"? pencils set?... noses up?... ready?... GO!!

It's simply too mind rattling to believe that people actually like this LP, hence the nagging comments. It's almost as if they forget that the Stones have good albums and seemingly need this one to be on equal level with them, which it never will be. Think of it as music's Texas/Mexico border.

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about folks that claim to love DW, & discuss it so compulsively and defend it over and over, thread after thread, etc. as if they think by saying it enough that they might convince the naysayers that a piece of shite somehow is beyond their grasp of understanding of how brilliant it is. .. Kind of strange that folks don't just see things differently each thread...

I dont think it is the same people starting the threads each time, but it seems to be the same naysayers who come in each time to bash it....... to me, it is one thing to be happy with something, and be happily motivated to post something postive and happy about it, and dwell on positive vibes..... it is another to constanlty dwell on the negative and negative vibes... if someone likes something, some person, why not let them like it without feeling compelled to say it is shite..... why the need to tell people how wrong and stupid they are??... but then again as we saw on the Whitney Houston eualogy thread, people around here have no problem saying nasty things about pretty much everything.... no matter the topic they feel compelled to say how wrong it is to say nice things about it, insisting on dwelling on the negative.

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

It has been fun/amusing to peruse this thread (and other similar threads) reading the preaching disdain for this album (and a couple of other Stones albums)... it is funny to imagine some with pencils tighly clinched in teeth, noses pointed to the sky, as they blather on and on telling us how to feel about this album, and if we dont agree/submit then we must be a particular type of fan. LOL, uh OK.... anyway.... if you are not too busy, could you tell us a couple of hundred more times how you demand us to feel about "Dirty Work"? pencils set?... noses up?... ready?... GO!!

It's simply too mind rattling to believe that people actually like this LP, hence the nagging comments. It's almost as if they forget that the Stones have good albums and seemingly need this one to be on equal level with them, which it never will be. Think of it as music's Texas/Mexico border.

You shouldnt let it rattle you... just let them like what they want.

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Max'sKansasCity

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

It has been fun/amusing to peruse this thread (and other similar threads) reading the preaching disdain for this album (and a couple of other Stones albums)... it is funny to imagine some with pencils tighly clinched in teeth, noses pointed to the sky, as they blather on and on telling us how to feel about this album, and if we dont agree/submit then we must be a particular type of fan. LOL, uh OK.... anyway.... if you are not too busy, could you tell us a couple of hundred more times how you demand us to feel about "Dirty Work"? pencils set?... noses up?... ready?... GO!!

It's simply too mind rattling to believe that people actually like this LP, hence the nagging comments. It's almost as if they forget that the Stones have good albums and seemingly need this one to be on equal level with them, which it never will be. Think of it as music's Texas/Mexico border.

You shouldnt let it rattle you... just let them like what they want.

That's the problem with the world today. Everyone wants a trophy for something. Every kid 'graduates' their grade. Everyone is special. Some people don't like the truth because they can't take the truth so they convince themselves of things that aren't true.

It's very similar, people liking Dirty Work and the biggest lie in the United States.

There are too many lies in the U.S., I am not sure which one you are referring to.

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Max'sKansasCity
There are too many lies in the U.S., I am not sure which one you are referring to.

Ha ha hahahahaha. One in particular but you are right. Although is it really 'too many' or should if be 'so many'?

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Max'sKansasCity
There are too many lies in the U.S., I am not sure which one you are referring to.

Ha ha hahahahaha. One in particular but you are right. Although is it really 'too many' or should if be 'so many'?

There are too many, what is the biggest? I would nominate for biggest lie "Congress cares about the people it serves" another is "The war on drugs is helping the children" another would be "The money we spend on the TSA makes it safer to fly" another is .... ah hell I dont have all day... too many lies.

It's a masterpiece alright. It's up there with the Seven Wonders of the World. I would rank it somewhere between The Colosseum in Rome and The Great Pyramid of Giza. Isn't it high time we had a Dirty Work Museum? I mean such a masterpiece deserves it. Or maybe there is an empty space to fill in The Louvre? Besides La Gioconda?

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Max'sKansasCity

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about folks that claim to love DW, & discuss it so compulsively and defend it over and over, thread after thread, etc. as if they think by saying it enough that they might convince the naysayers that a piece of shite somehow is beyond their grasp of understanding of how brilliant it is. .. Kind of strange that folks don't just see things differently each thread...

I dont think it is the same people starting the threads each time, but it seems to be the same naysayers who come in each time to bash it....... to me, it is one thing to be happy with something, and be happily motivated to post something postive and happy about it, and dwell on positive vibes..... it is another to constanlty dwell on the negative and negative vibes... if someone likes something, some person, why not let them like it without feeling compelled to say it is shite..... why the need to tell people how wrong and stupid they are??... but then again as we saw on the Whitney Houston eualogy thread, people around here have no problem saying nasty things about pretty much everything.... no matter the topic they feel compelled to say how wrong it is to say nice things about it, insisting on dwelling on the negative.

Spot on Max. What is even more ridiculous about this is that the very same people who are bashing Dirty Work in this thread were defending Undercover with every breath in their lungs just weeks ago. Undercover might be slightly better than Dirty Work but it's far from being great.

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Max'sKansasCity

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Max'sKansasCity
There are too many lies in the U.S., I am not sure which one you are referring to.

Ha ha hahahahaha. One in particular but you are right. Although is it really 'too many' or should if be 'so many'?

There are too many, what is the biggest? I would nominate for biggest lie "Congress cares about the people it serves" another is "The war on drugs is helping the children" another would be "The money we spend on the TSA makes it safer to fly" another is .... ah hell I dont have all day... too many lies.

I really didn't intend it to turn into a extended in-depth addition to the Stones' Lies from Some Girls, seeing that this is a Dirty Work thread. But what can one do?

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues
.....But what can one do?

... except to sing in a rock'n'roll band?

In Italy they have a saying (well, we have, since I'm half italian): "Chi disprezza compra", "Who despises, buys".

This thread has been going on for a week, it's on "top of the charts",c'mon just admit it, you all have a guilty love affair with Dirty Work. I guess you jealously keep a dirty work collection - vinyl + cassette + cd - in your night table, under the Barry Manilow complete collection, of course.

What´s the problem? I soberly grew listening to the Stones, Dylan and Led Zeppelin, but I also had an occasional hidden weakness for the cheesy tunes sung by Olivia Newton John and John Travolta in those end of the 70's musicals.

Time to get out of the closet, instead of delegating to others the "dirty work".

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Max'sKansasCity

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about folks that claim to love DW, & discuss it so compulsively and defend it over and over, thread after thread, etc. as if they think by saying it enough that they might convince the naysayers that a piece of shite somehow is beyond their grasp of understanding of how brilliant it is. .. Kind of strange that folks don't just see things differently each thread...

I dont think it is the same people starting the threads each time, but it seems to be the same naysayers who come in each time to bash it....... to me, it is one thing to be happy with something, and be happily motivated to post something postive and happy about it, and dwell on positive vibes..... it is another to constanlty dwell on the negative and negative vibes... if someone likes something, some person, why not let them like it without feeling compelled to say it is shite.....

And I feel the converse it true ... is some think it is shite, why try to ruin it and lie, saying it is a masterpiece?

It's also funny how the DW defenders seem to get so defensive about it too - deep down they know its shite too but just can't admit it, and think that by overstating how good it is that they will change minds. Sorry, it sucks - don't blame us, blame the Stones, they did it. Anyway I love both Bridges & Bigger Bang - and many of this board hate those albums - but I don't feel the need to go in those threads and try and stop anyone from bashing them, I don't really care ...

The only reason critical posts about DW keep coming up is that people continually start threads claiming it is underrated or "an accidental masterpiece", etc. If one wants to like the record, that's great. But if one wants to argue that it's a great record, be prepared for counter arguments. This shouldn't come as any surprise, or be a problem for anyone. We should be able to like what we like, but also say why we we don't agree if we don't.

The great thing is the Stones have been around so long and have put out so many albums that there is something somewhere for everyone (almost).

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about folks that claim to love DW, & discuss it so compulsively and defend it over and over, thread after thread, etc. as if they think by saying it enough that they might convince the naysayers that a piece of shite somehow is beyond their grasp of understanding of how brilliant it is. .. Kind of strange that folks don't just see things differently each thread...

I dont think it is the same people starting the threads each time, but it seems to be the same naysayers who come in each time to bash it....... to me, it is one thing to be happy with something, and be happily motivated to post something postive and happy about it, and dwell on positive vibes..... it is another to constanlty dwell on the negative and negative vibes... if someone likes something, some person, why not let them like it without feeling compelled to say it is shite.....

And I feel the converse it true ... is some think it is shite, why try to ruin it and lie, saying it is a masterpiece?

It's also funny how the DW defenders seem to get so defensive about it too - deep down they know its shite too but just can't admit it, and think that by overstating how good it is that they will change minds. Sorry, it sucks - don't blame us, blame the Stones, they did it. Anyway I love both Bridges & Bigger Bang - and many of this board hate those albums - but I don't feel the need to go in those threads and try and stop anyone from bashing them, I don't really care ...

Doesn't the thread title just deserve a bitch-slapping though? Whether you happen to like the album or not, I don't think anyone is calling it the second coming of Let It Bleed, so 'Masterpiece by Accident?' only brings everyone out of the woodwork for one more 'go at it'.

So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

Why not get over the fact that some folks think it's a terrible album?

I don't think it's a terrible album.....nearly half of it range from good to very good, IMO, allthough there's some stinkers there as well

but it doesn't bother me at all that other folks thinks it's lousy all the way. I don't feel threatened by that, and I think it's bizarre that others do

Seems that some people here think that the "if you can't say anything good, then don't say anything at all" - guiding line is general for the all threads at IORR, but it's not, it's meant for certain threads like the "RIP" threads

I like hearing other people's opinion about RS music on IORR. If nobody posted their different views on RS albums, it would just be nothing but a lousy blog, and not a messageboard

Of course there is no agenda, it is not like 3 seperate posters would
come in and all say the same thing within one miute, or anything

But isnt the real question about Olivia Newton John and John Travolta...
as pointed by zumabitch... I did get a shuckle out their post.

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Max'sKansasCity
Of course there is no agenda, it is not like 3 seperate posters would
come in and all say the same thing within one miute, or anything

Hey Max, would you be so kind as to email me privately at jpc58@msn.com? I promise you will not be displeased. Thanks.

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Erik_Snow
So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

can't speak for others, but this certainly represents me very well.

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Erik_Snow
So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

Why not get over the fact that some folks think it's a terrible album?

Well, in my case (can't speak on behalf of others) I was joking or de-dramatising a little bit, when I wrote "you all hiddenly love Dirty Work". Somehow it´s funny, because it´s raising a quite big debate, and even if there might be some "savable" songs,it wouldn't be a relevant album, given its intrinsic lack of consistency and adverse circumstances - the whole project seemed as a forced reunion".

For me it´s impossible to judge, because I have a pathological rejection for 90% of the music produced on the 80's (and it also contaminated the Stones, at least partially), the sound, the drumming, etc. Who knows, maybe some "musical ideas" weren't that bad, and if they saw the light in the 70's (or in the 90´s) the result could have been a reasonable album (not a masterpiece anyway, I guess)

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zumabitch

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Erik_Snow
So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

Why not get over the fact that some folks think it's a terrible album?

Well, in my case (can't speak on behalf of others) I was joking or de-dramatising a little bit, when I wrote "you all hiddenly love Dirty Work". Somehow it´s funny, because it´s raising a quite big debate, and even if there might be some "savable" songs,it wouldn't be a relevant album, given its intrinsic lack of consistency and adverse circumstances - the whole project seemed as a forced reunion".

For me it´s impossible to judge, because I have a pathological rejection for 90% of the music produced on the 80's (and it also contaminated the Stones, at least partially), the sound, the drumming, etc. Who knows, maybe some "musical ideas" weren't that bad, and if they saw the light in the 70's (or in the 90´s) the result could have been a reasonable album (not a masterpiece anyway, I guess)

The post wasn't actually not directed at you, but at earlier posts, and posts in general. Your post was funny - and had a point, as one can sometimes has a thing for certain records that one, when being objective, know is of terrible quality - because they have a certain out-of-time charm

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DandelionPowderman
This song gets bashed a lot here. I fail to see why?

It's one of the best songs on the album, but that isn't saying a lot unfortunately. It really does nothing for me. Imagine how wild the crowd would go if they played it in concert?

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StonesTod

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Erik_Snow
So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

can't speak for others, but this certainly represents me very well.

I didn't even have to read who posted this...

Great albums of 1986:

Graceland - Paul Simon (may be not Stones alike great, but great in a general way)
Slippery when wet - Bon Jovi (I know, maybe a little corny now, but then I thought it was great)
So - Peter Gabriel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-20 23:18 by jackflash27.