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stupidguy2
Ha! Thanks Rockman! That part about how the entourage confuses their role with being one of the Stones is hilariously spot-on. I've always thought that of certain people who got too close to the Stones.
Capote may have been an elitist ass who didn't relate to rock and roll, but he was also a writer who understood human nature.

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memphiscats
p.s. WHY didn't the Stones do encores back then?

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swiss

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Redhotcarpet

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24FPS

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Bliss
But really, what is so hard about being Keith Richards?

The early Keith, before he put up the wall, seems a little shy, a little jug eared, a little pimply. Watching the Ed Sullivan shows is startling, to see how hard they all look by 1969, compared to the smiling guys amused by it all in 1964. Although they like to repeat that Brian was poorly constructed for the show business life, it doesn't look like Keith was all that happily adjusted either. Unless you think shooting heroin for ten years is happily adjusted.

I find that comment about Brian not being fit for fame really disgusting. Talk about patting him on the head. Self righteous crap.

It's true he couldnt cope with the ALO power trio within the band and he couldnt handle losing Anita to Keith and on top of that he had the busts. He was perfectly built for fame and showbiz, in fact he was the only one in the band who was up until he lost Anita which is when he falls head first to the ground. It's really obvious when you look at those clips of late 66 early 67 Brian compared to those later in 1967. He died that summer more or less.

Redhotcarpet - well...you bring up very good points. And that's a super interesting assertion that Brian died that summer. I can see what you mean. And I think what you say in general deserves serious attention - to what degree is Brian's fragility a self-serving myth of the Rolling Stones? My hunch is that there is indeed truth to the myth---that, yes, Brian did have a lot of heavy blows to contend with, and they did leave him reeling, as they would anyone---but also that he was probably less constitutionally hardy than others in "show biz." Maybe the others' defenses were also flawed (they were), but Brian, and this is said by many who knew him and even were fond of him, gave the impression to those who knew and encountered him that he was a little too thin-skinned to withstand the blows, or didn't have the needed defenses to fend off the slings and arrows. I mean, many people in "show biz" don't. Brian--most certainly--was an artist, first and foremost. I think Keith, Mick, and Charlie are too, but in a very different way. Brian is SO open and so vulnerable, and that's part of what made his art so goddamn gorgeous and transportive...could take you to another very creative place. And I tip my "hippie card" in also mentioning Brian is a Pisces, and very classically so. He was hypersensitive to everything around him, mutable, and dreamy. If he had a better support system around him he would have been protected from some of the intensity of being in "show biz." But, you know the story, right? Even the night he and Anita met he was literally in tears because Keith and Mick had been "mean" to him that night--and this was in 1964. On top of all that, he was physically sickly a lot, and the defenses he did have were often off-putting to other people. He was like a wound up cock-rooster looking to pick fights, and could be mean-spirited, super obnoxious, and bitchy in a way not even Mick could hold a candle to--sort of petty. So that didn't endear him to people very much who might have rallied around when times got tough.

- swiss

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24FPS
I've noticed that Brian didn't seem to have that hardened shell most show business types seem to have to deal with it all. Brian was cocky early on but just follow the NME videos and Sullivan appearances, and of course the Rock and Roll Circus film to see him visibly fall apart. If we want to get into the Pisces thing, it appears, like Harrison (a fellow Pisces), that he went from being caring and sensitive to being just as shallow and hurtful. Extremes.

Let's face it, Brian didn't get it. It was a business and he didn't understand. I remember that clip on something like Ready Steady Go where he complains about being ill. The announcer is thinking, "This is show business. Nobody gives a crap about your personal problems."

Would it have been better for Brian if he'd lived? Or would he have been a pitied loser for leaving the Greatest Rock and Roll Band In The World? (Like Mick Taylor is now). I think his life would have been hell with all his kid's mothers catching up to him for child support. He would have been broke before long, with few songwriting royalties, except for his 1/5th of Nanker-Phelge, and his scant mechanical royalties, all held up by ABCKO.

I would like to have heard Warhol's impression of Brian. Brian was the first Stone to know Warhol and hang with him.

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Redhotcarpet

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24FPS
I've noticed that Brian didn't seem to have that hardened shell most show business types seem to have to deal with it all. Brian was cocky early on but just follow the NME videos and Sullivan appearances, and of course the Rock and Roll Circus film to see him visibly fall apart. If we want to get into the Pisces thing, it appears, like Harrison (a fellow Pisces), that he went from being caring and sensitive to being just as shallow and hurtful. Extremes.

Let's face it, Brian didn't get it. It was a business and he didn't understand. I remember that clip on something like Ready Steady Go where he complains about being ill. The announcer is thinking, "This is show business. Nobody gives a crap about your personal problems."

Would it have been better for Brian if he'd lived? Or would he have been a pitied loser for leaving the Greatest Rock and Roll Band In The World? (Like Mick Taylor is now). I think his life would have been hell with all his kid's mothers catching up to him for child support. He would have been broke before long, with few songwriting royalties, except for his 1/5th of Nanker-Phelge, and his scant mechanical royalties, all held up by ABCKO.

I would like to have heard Warhol's impression of Brian. Brian was the first Stone to know Warhol and hang with him.

Yes - that would've been interesting. I think Andy would've sited a kindred spirit in Brian - in someways. At least in terms of sensitivity. WHAT book is the guy asking Mick about in this video - anyone know? An early biographer...
Cheers.

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24FPS
I would like to have heard Warhol's impression of Brian. Brian was the first Stone to know Warhol and hang with him.

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with sssoul

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memphiscats
p.s. WHY didn't the Stones do encores back then?

what they've said is that it seemed silly and phony to pretend you were done when you weren't -
they preferred to play their last number without leaving the stage first. which makes good enough sense ...
but they've also recognized in the meantime that it was rather arrogant of them.

and they did do encores occasionally in 72. for example at Boston they did, right?
where the audience had been kept waiting way beyond the call of duty

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Happy Jack
Perhaps there was a sense that an encore was undeserved in rock at the time.

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memphiscats

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Title5Take1
April 12, 1973

In 1972, ROLLING STONE asked Truman Capote to cover the Rolling Stones’ EXILE ON MAIN ST. tour. But months later, Capote was unable to produce a story. The magazine asked Andy Warhol to interview Capote.



WARHOL: Did you like traveling with them?

CAPOTE: Oh, I enjoyed it. I just didn’t want to write about it, because it didn’t interest me creatively. You know? But I enjoyed it as an experience. I thought it was amusing...I like the Rolling Stones individually, one by one, but the one thing I didn’t like was that they had—and especially the people around them—had such a disrespect for the audience. That used to really gripe me. It was like, “Who the fcuk cares about them?” Well, these kids have merely stood in line for twenty-seven hours, you know, and what not to go to their concert—they adore them and love them.

I've read this article a couple of times before and this part always disturbed me. Maybe I'm naive - but my impression of the Stones was they were loyal to their music and their fans. I never felt like they were shitting on their fans. Does anyone agree with what Truman said? Or am I misreading it and perhaps he's talking about the "entourage" not appreciating the fans.
Muddled in Memphis...

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Doxa

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24FPS
I'm sure someone like Jagger probably found Capote amusing and interesting, with a useful pool of acquaintances. It doesn't appear that Keith could tolerate these kind of people. Maybe Mick got bored with Keith overdoing drugs. You have to get out of the f-ing hotel room at some point.

Yeah, the classical romantic story of early 70's is that Jagger - with Bianca - was a social climber, getting to know people like Capote, and Keith - with Anita - remained faithfull to a rock and roll life style. A part of official Stones mythology. It was all rosey during the late 60's when Mick and Marianne and Keith and Anita made this little rock and roll high society. But then Mick betrayed the scene. We all know this, right?

It could be that Jagger basically bored with that kind of circle(s), especially taking what happend in Nellcote, and having all kind of hangers on. Keith, by contrast, seemed to love being in the center of the hurricane, the leader and toughest guy of the party that is. Jagger, if anything, is a restless soul, a curious mind, a guy always seeking new things. I think for him staying in some scene for the rest of life must sound awkward. Perhaps the London scene in where he was a king during the late 60's was a thing of the moment. That was cool and exciting then, but life continued, and he kept on searching new grounds, new people, new circles. But Keith somehow stuck into those premises and went just downhill on dopeville throughtout the 70's. Perhaps getting rid of the hard stuff, and having a real family finally freed himself of that - but not his image - and being a "celebrite" and hanging with any name - read the last chapter of LIFE - is not that hard for him to accept ever since...

What I have always found it funny in that Jagger guy is that he never seems to be very home with a rock and roll crowd. Yeah, he surely is the biggest rock stars ever - the thousands of frontmans adoring him and trying to be like him - but he always make the impression that rock and roll as a sort of life style, a way to dress, or being devoted to it doesn't impress him at all. To my eyes he takes that role only as something like as his claim to fame, something he is very good at, but somehow doesn't devote himself 24/7 to that. I think he is way too smart for that. A bit same impression as Dylan makes - another a song and a dance man - who is gifted in his job, but knows exactly its boundaries. I think Capote's point about Mick's ability to control his own act - being an actor - but then ability to leave it behind, too, is capturing something essential in Jagger, which also might explain some of his achievements and a being a vital star for some 50 years soon. He is not carried away with his own greatness, his own role (so many adores). Like so many others would if given the possibility of being in his shoes. (One could say the same of Dylan, as well.)

This reminds me of Keith's talks from the 90's, during the time Mick and Jerry 'divorced' I think. He said something to the effect that millions people would love to be Mick Jagger, but Jagger does not seems to be happy being himself, and is always in a run, and unable to make lasting relationships, etc. Keith recommended Mick to just relax, and enjoý being Mick Jagger. But to my eyes Keith doesn't seem to get what is so essential in Jagger. Mick doesn't feel like being satisfied with the premises achieved but is always looking for a new thing, new adventures. He still is.

(But before anyone make the correct remark that how do I know anything of 'real' Jagger - well, I obviously don't; I'm just making observations and theories from the base of evidence I know.)

- Doxa

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His Majesty

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Title5Take1

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stupidguy2
I always thought it was a bit hypocrital to slag Mick for hanging out with Gore Vidal in the 70s when Keith's buddies were the Orsmby-Gores, Guinnesses....

Makes me think of Keith in LIFE on p. 35: "But Mum and Dad loved the council flat house. I had no choice but to bite my tongue. As a semidetached goes, it was new and well built, but it wasn't ours! I thought we deserved better. And it made me bitter. I thought of us as a noble family in exile."

Hypocrisy is a big part of Keith's life.

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angee
Now that Keith has his co-authored book out, I think he might have more respect for
Truman, in retrospect.