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Youngie

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Erik_Snow
Actually I can't imagine seeing the Doors being on the same stage/show as Rolling Stones for some reason. Not that I don't want to see it, but it's like they're from different planets. But Hendrix and...The Beatles - that would be something!

The Beatles! LOL that sure would have been something.

Indeed - they proabably would have played Something, as well.

Come to think of it, another performer that was peaking in 1968, but whom I just can't possible imagine seeing together with Rolling Stones at R&R Cirkus - that's Elvis Presley

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Youngie
What's wrong with Jagger by the way - locking this show & Live in Texas '78 (and surely others) in the vaults for 30+ years because they "weren't up to par"?

Madness.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was due to his clothing at both those 2 shows...he's very concerned about his clothes.
IOW; Manchester 1990 will surely never be out on DVD

I dunno if Elvis would have been too pleased being invited to perform at a circus

I also doubt that

It was great that they finally released this. It's a great snaphot of an era, among other things. Maybe not the best Stones performance, but not a terrible one either. What's of great hostorical interest to me is that this probably either the first - or one of the first - times the Stones played songs that would later become the "Warhorses," like YCAGWYW, JJF, and Sympathy. A great example of how the Stones experimented with their songs, looking for the right way to play them live. Look how Sympathy evolved from the Circus version to the guitar driven masterpiece on Ya Ya's.

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Erik_Snow
I also doubt that

He'd have also taken the limelight from The Stones.

But it'd have been awesome to have seen the audience fainting at the sight of The King. I like the way you think Erik

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DiscoVolante
They all look very sad, and Brian is practically a living dead.

They were tired as hell. Jagger is the one who deserves most of the credit since he is the one who keep it alive. With all the shit that happend to Brian in 68 me thinks he is doing fine here. I don't agree that he looks like a living dead. Uninterested, tired and alienated maybe but he is there.

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tomcasagranda
Keith stated in an interview "Brian was practically a basket-case by this point".

No, he wasn't. I mean just look at the film. He is there and he is playing.
If he had been a basket-case they wouldn't have gambled and let him play NE. Mick would never have allowed that. Typical Keith "Brian-bashing".

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His Majesty
They were good enough, but could have been much better. Agreed that they obviously need a new guitar player, but they should have atleast turned Brian up for Jumpin' Jack Flash, Parachute Woman and You Can't Always Get What You Want.

No great shakes from Brian - no longer interested in being a Rolling Stone - Jones, but no big mistakes either.

+1 Amen to that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-16 17:50 by tonterapi.

RRC is a great testimonial with a quite good sound quality. "JJF", "Parachute Woman" and "No expectations" (Brian's great slide) are far above the studio versions. Highlight is the "Dirty Mac" performance with "Yer Blues". I dislike only two things: the horrible screaming of Yoko Ono and the half-playback version of "Salt of the Earth".

Maybe they didn't want to face the press with obvious questions about Brian, like why is he so far away from the rest of the band? Why does he look out of it and miserable? Why isn't he playing along with some of the songs? It's quite possible they weren't looking forward to Brian being the story, instead of the exciting new music they were making. This very project might have been the final straw, the one where they realized Brian was incapable of being part of the band any longer. And a tour of the States that they so desparately needed? Here's your visual proof that it was impossible.

Which is all too bad, since the other performers were fantastic. Except for Yoko.

One of my favorite things about R&R Circus is watching young Jesse Ed Davis with Taj Mahal. That guy had amazing chops and excellent feel.

My own little story about this is that I got invited to the premier in New York by Michael Lindsay-Hogg. Sitting just a few rows behind me was none other than Mr. Keith Richards himself, with Yoko Ono a few seats away. Keith audibly laughed when his younger eye-patch adroned mug appeared on the screen. Quite an evening.

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24FPS
Maybe they didn't want to face the press with obvious questions about Brian, like why is he so far away from the rest of the band? Why does he look out of it and miserable? Why isn't he playing along with some of the songs? It's quite possible they weren't looking forward to Brian being the story, instead of the exciting new music they were making. This very project might have been the final straw, the one where they realized Brian was incapable of being part of the band any longer. And a tour of the States that they so desparately needed? Here's your visual proof that it was impossible.

Yup.

Sad that Brian had to leave so the Stones could become a better band (and later on maybe the best band in the world)

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Youngie
Sad that Brian had to leave so the Stones could become a better band (and later on maybe the best band in the world)

They became a different band... better than they are in R&R Circus for sure, but just different, not better than how they were in 1962 - up to and including Beggars Banquet.

By the time of the R&R Circus Brian doesn't seem to have wanted to be in The Rolling Stones anymore and The Rolling Stones don't seem to want Brian.

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Youngie
What's wrong with Jagger by the way - locking this show & Live in Texas '78 (and surely others) in the vaults for 30+ years because they "weren't up to par"?

Madness.

I can't help but think sometimes that Jagger - ever the businessman - decided to lock certain things in the vaults for purely economic reasons. I can imagine him thinking, "Hmmm....this shit is pretty good. What if we lock it away and then finally start releasing these things when we're older and our fans are hungry for product? We'll make a fortune."

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His Majesty

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Youngie
Sad that Brian had to leave so the Stones could become a better band (and later on maybe the best band in the world)

They became a different band... better than they are in R&R Circus for sure, but just different, not better than how they were in 1962 - up to and including Beggars Banquet.

By the time of the R&R Circus Brian doesn't seem to have wanted to be in The Rolling Stones anymore and The Rolling Stones don't seem to want Brian.

I have a real fondness for their early sound, the rawer the better. Give me Grown Up Wrong and Diddley Daddy any day of the week. You can't beat the hypnotic, dark vibe Brian brought to the band. I still think Mick took his look, and Keith took his vibe, and on they went without him.

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DiscoVolante
The other acts outshines the Stones though, especially The Who.

I've read this for years before I actually saw it and wondered... "how awesome must that Who song be?". Then I realized it's that goofy "soooooon be hoooome" song from The Kids Are Alright.

Am I the only one who DOESN'T think The Who were better in this show??

[thepowergoats.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-16 21:47 by jamesfdouglas.

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jamesfdouglas
Am I the only one who DOESN'T think The Who were better in this show??

Jagger thought The Who were much better. He must be right

I don't agree really...

I still can't believe that some fans still think the official "The Who was better than Stones that night" was true. Listen to Live at Leeds, or any other show, specially 1973. The Who didn't sound the good they can, and the Stones give a great show. Not their best, but a very good one. They were looking for new way of expression, and this is what I hear on the Circus.

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"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"

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71Tele
I got invited to the premier in New York by Michael Lindsay-Hogg. Sitting just a few rows behind me was none other than Mr. Keith Richards

Now that's what I calll a great experience

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Keep On Rolling

The Who, though they eventually played better, seem "on" and hungry. The Stones seem, well tired. All explainable and not damning. But I did see a contrast between the bands when I first saw R&R Circus. Enough that it could be Mick's "reason". But I think the show could have been very popular for like the midnight movie crowd had it come out in its day.

I wouldn't have released it because of the ponchos myself.

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Erik_Snow

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Eleanor Rigby
The Who were great...but they were always great live...in fact, they matched the Stones during 1969 as well as a live act...thats how good they were!
So to compare the Stones to The Who in RnR Circus is slightly unfair.

Why unfair, Elenor? The reasons you mentioned makes it quite fair to compare the two.
Comparing Rolling Stones to Dirty Mac with Yoko Ono (!) for instance, now that would had been unfair.

I dig the Rock'n Roll Circus, BTW - and was very surprised when buying it in 1996, as I expected it to be a lot poorer, since they didn't want it released back then.

The Rolling Stones was in obvious need of a new guitar player though....or at least, turning up the one they had. One miss the guitar-duelling of 1969, when listening to R&R circus

well...i meant the Stones were handicapped with Brian & tiredness, they were always going to be pushing sh*t uphill to compete with The Who with those factors dragging them down. Mind you I still think the Stones did a good job.

But did the Stones look so tired? I think they did their best JJF ever. PW and NE (apart from transferring it to a very high pitched key for Mick to sing in) sounded great. YCAGWYW is a bit shaky and SOTE is playback except for the vocals.

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Youngie
I dunno if Elvis would have been too pleased being invited to perform at a circus

Not to mention that Elvis didn't perform outside of North America.

[en.wikipedia.org]

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jamesfdouglas

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DiscoVolante
The other acts outshines the Stones though, especially The Who.

I've read this for years before I actually saw it and wondered... "how awesome must that Who song be?". Then I realized it's that goofy "soooooon be hoooome" song from The Kids Are Alright.

Am I the only one who DOESN'T think The Who were better in this show??

Well it is all down to personal taste. I am a big Who fan, and I don't find A Quick One (While He's Away) to be silly at all. A very challenging song, and very much ahead of its time. Lots of great slashing Pete guitar, great harmonies, and vocals, and incredible drums by Moonie, especially on this version with the water spraying from the drums and in his glitter suite, they look and sounded incredible.

Brian looks like absolute crap here. Fat, out-of-it, and . . . fat. A far cry from 1965. But, I agree with HM, why can't we at least hear Brian's rhythm guitar.

I can't work out why Brian Jones is turned down or maybe off.

His slide playing on the Circus is pretty good and so his other playing would have at least been passable but it seemed to be turned down for some reason.

Very odd.

A quote from Andy Johns

"Then there was a Stones’ session that he brought into Morgan. The first session on ‘You Can’t Always Get What You Want.’ And it went very badly. Just horrible. They did not want to be there and there were too many of them for that little place. Al Kooper was there, I think. That was my first opportunity of working with them. And Mick was in a foul mood telling me to turn Brian (Jones) off."

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Erik_Snow
Wouldn't be surprised if it was due to his clothing at both those 2 shows...he's very concerned about his clothes.
IOW; Manchester 1990 will surely never be out on DVD

I doubt that since Hyde Park is on DVD, where he wears a ballerina dress. And I reckon he wore a Peter Pan suit in '81.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-17 11:19 by DiscoVolante.

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DandelionPowderman
I think they did their best JJF ever

Heck, even Brian seems to enjoy to play JJF. I think that after JJF the whole band looks tired...well, besides Mick that is.

I think it's crap that they keep Brian's guitar so low (almost inaudible) in the mix. He doesn't play bad (the little we can hear) and at least tries to shake his ass a bit even though it's pretty clear that he has little interest in being there. He wasn't well during this time so I'd say it was strong of him to show up at all.

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tonterapi

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DandelionPowderman
I think they did their best JJF ever

Heck, even Brian seems to enjoy to play JJF. I think that after JJF the whole band looks tired...well, besides Mick that is.

I think it's crap that they keep Brian's guitar so low (almost inaudible) in the mix. He doesn't play bad (the little we can hear) and at least tries to shake his ass a bit even though it's pretty clear that he has little interest in being there. He wasn't well during this time so I'd say it was strong of him to show up at all.

This was a recording, not a live show. It´s not unlikely Brian got too stoned to play in between takes. Might be the reason...

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DiscoVolante

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Erik_Snow
Wouldn't be surprised if it was due to his clothing at both those 2 shows...he's very concerned about his clothes.
IOW; Manchester 1990 will surely never be out on DVD

I doubt that since Hyde Park is on DVD, where he wears a ballerina dress. And I reckon he wore a Peter Pan suit in '81.

Slightly off topic but one thing that has always bothered me watching videos from the '75 - '76 Tour is that most of Mick's outfits looked ridiculous, IMO. (Although there were some great performances - and some sloppy, bad ones - from that tour.) What was he thinking? Even Mick has said in retrospect that he didn't like the way he looked on that tour. Thanks God he had a much cooler look when they came back in 1978.