Let’s hope they can restructure and re-emerge.

[www.bloomberg.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-01 17:37 by SomeTorontoGirl.

Gibson Guitars will never disappear.

Angus Young should go more often on Tour ....

The CEO is toast and rightfully so as it was his own decisions with trying to branch out and diversify right into bankruptcy court .Good riddance Henry Juskiwcz

$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

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More Hot Rocks
$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

So they are supposed to give them away at rock bottom prices ? This a common refrain heard all the time .

Pete Townsend needs to break up some more guitars

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TheGreek

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More Hot Rocks
$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

So they are supposed to give them away at rock bottom prices ? This a common refrain heard all the time .

I never said that. I pointed to the inferiority of the guitars vs the cost. If im paying thousands for a guitar Im making sure the fretboard is real wood not compressed pulp. geeez.....

The Les Paul JR Mosaic is a 1 pickup all mahogany body for $4200. If you want to pay that go ahead. Ive owned many Norlin LPs for a fraction of that cost. At least they used to know how to cut the nut slot depth properly years ago.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-02 01:10 by More Hot Rocks.

Maybe it's time for Dylan to go electric again.

Gibson's fate makes you wonder about some of the other biggies - Fender and Martin. Are their sales any better than Gibson's? And, considering the prevalence of hip hop and digital/synthesized music these days, are younger people buying guitars at all? Unless something happens musically - a new Beatles or Stones, for example, wailing away on guitars - who are the musical influencers today that guitar manufacturers can use to help sell their product?

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dmay
Maybe it's time for Dylan to go electric again.

Gibson's fate makes you wonder about some of the other biggies - Fender and Martin. Are their sales any better than Gibson's? And, considering the prevalence of hip hop and digital/synthesized music these days, are younger people buying guitars at all? Unless something happens musically - a new Beatles or Stones, for example, wailing away on guitars - who are the musical influencers today that guitar manufacturers can use to help sell their product?

I agree, the Guitar Bands are the minority it seems ..... how about hip hop on guitar? NaH

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TheGreek

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$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

So they are supposed to give them away at rock bottom prices ? This a common refrain heard all the time .

I never said that. I pointed to the inferiority of the guitars vs the cost. If im paying thousands for a guitar Im making sure the fretboard is real wood not compressed pulp. geeez.....

The Les Paul JR Mosaic is a 1 pickup all mahogany body for $4200. If you want to pay that go ahead. Ive owned many Norlin LPs for a fraction of that cost. At least they used to know how to cut the nut slot depth properly years ago.

I would not buy nor touch that junk if they gave it away for free .My last 2 Gibson's have been a 2014 Gibson Custom R 9 in Factoryburst which is to die for and my most recent is a Gibson Custom Historic One Off 1958 Quilt top in Darkburst that I just got 2 weekends ago finally after having designed this with the shop and just waiting for the right piece of Western Big Leaf Maple Quilt that I liked .

After reading the article from the Bloomberg.com, it seems to me that the problem isn't so much the guitars but the diversification move into other products like electronics and DJ's equipment than brought down the Cie. @#$%& DJ's music,sucks!!
Rockandroll,
Mops

Gibson's main problem is not so much the musical instrument business, even though that's reclining for years now and also hits other brands. The main problem is their decision to buy the Phillips Audio and Home entertainment business and start Gibson Innovations Business. That simply cost way too much, and was a failure from the start. The chapter 11 Bankruptcy will enable Gibson to get rid of this Audio business, and then restructure and refund the musical instrument business.

For the musical instrument business Gibson has to overcome one big hurdle, and that is to convince the customers that instruments made outside of the USA are of equal quality to USA made instruments. The simple fact is that 80% of a guitar's costs is labor, and labor is simply too expensive in the USA to remain such a big brand as Gibson. A Gibson Les Paul build in the USA costs $4000, whereas it would costs $1800 when build in Mexico and $1200 when build in Asia. Same materials, same craftsmanship.

Fender made that decision already in the mid-1980's, with introducing the Japanese and Mexican production line of instruments. They improved further, by making just about all bodies, necks and parts in Mexico, shipping them to the USA and then assemble the guitars and sell at a premium branded 'Made in the USA'.

Gibson never did that, they only have three lines: Expensive but fabulous quality USA custom shop, expensive but mediocre to horrible quality 'made in the USA' from Memphis, and the cheap line of Epiphone, which are in looks and quality too far removed from Gibson.

In my opinion the only way to survive is to move the Memphis production to outside the USA and market good quality instruments for a lower price. Keep the USA Custom Shop to serve the high end market, improve quality and looks of Epiphone.

And I agree: a killer was the introduction of Richlite -that really pushed a lot of the older Gibson fans with money to other brands like PRS. I am willing to pay $5000 for a ES-355, but only when it has a real Ebony fingerboard.

Mathijs

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TheGreek

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TheGreek

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$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

So they are supposed to give them away at rock bottom prices ? This a common refrain heard all the time .

I never said that. I pointed to the inferiority of the guitars vs the cost. If im paying thousands for a guitar Im making sure the fretboard is real wood not compressed pulp. geeez.....

The Les Paul JR Mosaic is a 1 pickup all mahogany body for $4200. If you want to pay that go ahead. Ive owned many Norlin LPs for a fraction of that cost. At least they used to know how to cut the nut slot depth properly years ago.

I would not buy nor touch that junk if they gave it away for free .My last 2 Gibson's have been a 2014 Gibson Custom R 9 in Factoryburst which is to die for and my most recent is a Gibson Custom Historic One Off 1958 Quilt top in Darkburst that I just got 2 weekends ago finally after having designed this with the shop and just waiting for the right piece of Western Big Leaf Maple Quilt that I liked .

these are birthday cakes. They dont sound better are play better then a 90 budget studio LP. Sorry you just threw your money away.

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TheGreek

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More Hot Rocks

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TheGreek

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More Hot Rocks
$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

So they are supposed to give them away at rock bottom prices ? This a common refrain heard all the time .

I never said that. I pointed to the inferiority of the guitars vs the cost. If im paying thousands for a guitar Im making sure the fretboard is real wood not compressed pulp. geeez.....

The Les Paul JR Mosaic is a 1 pickup all mahogany body for $4200. If you want to pay that go ahead. Ive owned many Norlin LPs for a fraction of that cost. At least they used to know how to cut the nut slot depth properly years ago.

I would not buy nor touch that junk if they gave it away for free .My last 2 Gibson's have been a 2014 Gibson Custom R 9 in Factoryburst which is to die for and my most recent is a Gibson Custom Historic One Off 1958 Quilt top in Darkburst that I just got 2 weekends ago finally after having designed this with the shop and just waiting for the right piece of Western Big Leaf Maple Quilt that I liked .

I need a new breadboard can I cut it up and use it. I have to agree with MRH. My brother in law was a Gibson rep up until 5 years ago. No absolutely no quality control. Your waiting for the right piece of wood? You have no idea how it works. You might get that pretty piece of wood that was cut down two months ago and dried for 48 hours. i would never trust a company that shows damaged and dinged guitars on their website. What a blunder.

For those who know - how does the (lack of) QC in Gibson compare to Fender?

For the musical instrument business Gibson has to overcome one big hurdle, and that is to convince the customers that instruments made outside of the USA are of equal quality to USA made instruments. The simple fact is that 80% of a guitar's costs is labor, and labor is simply too expensive in the USA to remain such a big brand as Gibson. A Gibson Les Paul build in the USA costs $4000, whereas it would costs $1800 when build in Mexico and $1200 when build in Asia. Same materials, same craftsmanship Dead wrong , jeez Mathijs usually you are right on most everything , not this one .Remember the old Gibson marketing slogan " Only a Gibson is Good Enough" ? It will never be if Gibson off shores production to Asia ,maybe in Mexico as Fender has done with some of there budget lines which are actually well made , but Gibson in Asia -equals FIREWOOD .

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Mathijs
Gibson's main problem is not so much the musical instrument business, even though that's reclining for years now and also hits other brands. The main problem is their decision to buy the Phillips Audio and Home entertainment business and start Gibson Innovations Business. That simply cost way too much, and was a failure from the start. The chapter 11 Bankruptcy will enable Gibson to get rid of this Audio business, and then restructure and refund the musical instrument business.

For the musical instrument business Gibson has to overcome one big hurdle, and that is to convince the customers that instruments made outside of the USA are of equal quality to USA made instruments. The simple fact is that 80% of a guitar's costs is labor, and labor is simply too expensive in the USA to remain such a big brand as Gibson. A Gibson Les Paul build in the USA costs $4000, whereas it would costs $1800 when build in Mexico and $1200 when build in Asia. Same materials, same craftsmanship.

Fender made that decision already in the mid-1980's, with introducing the Japanese and Mexican production line of instruments. They improved further, by making just about all bodies, necks and parts in Mexico, shipping them to the USA and then assemble the guitars and sell at a premium branded 'Made in the USA'.

Gibson never did that, they only have three lines: Expensive but fabulous quality USA custom shop, expensive but mediocre to horrible quality 'made in the USA' from Memphis, and the cheap line of Epiphone, which are in looks and quality too far removed from Gibson.

In my opinion the only way to survive is to move the Memphis production to outside the USA and market good quality instruments for a lower price. Keep the USA Custom Shop to serve the high end market, improve quality and looks of Epiphone.

And I agree: a killer was the introduction of Richlite -that really pushed a lot of the older Gibson fans with money to other brands like PRS. I am willing to pay $5000 for a ES-355, but only when it has a real Ebony fingerboard.

Mathijs

Also you do know that the Memphis facility builds the Hollowbody line of guitars .The Gibson USA line is made in Nashville as is the Gibson Custom division .

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TheGreek

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TheGreek

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More Hot Rocks
$6000 Les Pauls with Richlite fret boards. $4000 les Paul Juniors. Min-ETune on half of their guitars. No wonders. What are these guys thinking.

So they are supposed to give them away at rock bottom prices ? This a common refrain heard all the time .

I never said that. I pointed to the inferiority of the guitars vs the cost. If im paying thousands for a guitar Im making sure the fretboard is real wood not compressed pulp. geeez.....

The Les Paul JR Mosaic is a 1 pickup all mahogany body for $4200. If you want to pay that go ahead. Ive owned many Norlin LPs for a fraction of that cost. At least they used to know how to cut the nut slot depth properly years ago.

I would not buy nor touch that junk if they gave it away for free .My last 2 Gibson's have been a 2014 Gibson Custom R 9 in Factoryburst which is to die for and my most recent is a Gibson Custom Historic One Off 1958 Quilt top in Darkburst that I just got 2 weekends ago finally after having designed this with the shop and just waiting for the right piece of Western Big Leaf Maple Quilt that I liked .

these are birthday cakes. They dont sound better are play better then a 90 budget studio LP. Sorry you just threw your money away.

That's your right to feel and think like that , but it's not mine because you don't know the masterpiece instruments that I have , and they were worth every penny that I paid for them . Also the most recent one was built with old growth Honduran Mahogany and ditto for the Western Big Leaf Quilted Maple .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-02 20:38 by TheGreek.

We are going off topic here, but for what it's worth, I have a 2007 Gibson SG, can't remember the model but it was one of the cheap ones. It had bad electronics PUps I did not like, and the finish was so so. But the neck is great, frets needed no work, stays tuned for ages. With new PUs and electronics it does play great.

C

Where's Mathijs when we need him?

The thing is with the guitars not made in the US is they will never hold their value like a US made guitar. If you buy a Japanese or Mexican made Fender, while the build quality is now very good to excellent, you will never get what you paid for them I think while the "Made in USA" guitars seem to hold their value used. A US made Gibson Les Paul will always hold it's value IMHO. One made in Asia probably not so much.

I have a 2000 Gibson LP Raw power natural finish with factory Grover tuners I bought used and love that guitar. That being said I do notice little quality control issues that don't effect playability and can only be noticed if you really look for them. Granted my LP is not custom shop, and was just over $2K when new, but at that price I would expect better QC. That said I could sell that guitar tomorrow for what I paid for it used or maybe even make a little money.

I also have an 1987 ESP Mirage Custom, neckthrough, black piano finish, lawsuit headstock, guitar which is plays fantastic, look beautiful and has flawless QC. I could probably double what I paid for it 30 years ago, $800 US, if I sold it but considering the quality of the guitar you would think it would be worth more. When I asked why the guitar did not appreciate more on the ESP forum the answers I got back was "It is made in Japan".

Sort of on topic, Guitar Center is on the brink of Bankruptcy as well. Theories I have read is the younger musicians are not playing Gibson's and Fenders like their parents but rather playing cheap oddball brands and other boutique brands so the walls of GC are covered with the old stock Gibson's and Fenders collecting dust.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-03 00:18 by oldschool.

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dcba
Where's Mathijs when we need him?

Three or four posts up...

Henry Juszkiewicz took Gibson down so many blind roads, that the bankruptcy was inevitable. To list a few of his mis-steps:

Selling US made guitars with composite (Richlite) fingerboards.
Making the min-E tune / G Force robot autotuners mandatory on all non-Custom shop Les Pauls.
Selling firebirds and flying Vs with gig bags instead of cases.
The plethora of new finishes - too many ugly guitars.
The plug-ugly modern Flying V. Four grand for that? Seriously. . .
The diversification into consumer electronics. There's a reason they wanted to sell to you, Henry. . .
The ridiculous and ridiculously overpriced monitor speakers with sunburst finish.
The myriad quality issues that have been mentioned above.
Hemry has cheapened the reputation of Gibson while attempting to maintain the quality price point of the guitars.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if Henry and his management team had listened to a few guitar players this sad day may not have arrived.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-03 00:48 by ElGeordie.

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ElGeordie
Henry Juszkiewicz took Gibson down so many blind roads, that the bankruptcy was inevitable. To list a few of his mis-steps:

Selling US made guitars with composite (Richlite) fingerboards.
Making the min-E tune / G Force robot autotuners mandatory on all non-Custom shop Les Pauls.
Selling firebirds and flying Vs with gig bags instead of cases.
The plethora of new finishes - too many ugly guitars.
The plug-ugly modern Flying V. Four grand for that? Seriously. . .
The diversification into consumer electronics. There's a reason they wanted to sell to you, Henry. . .
The ridiculous and ridiculously overpriced monitor speakers with sunburst finish.
The myriad quality issues that have been mentioned above.
Hemry has cheapened the reputation of Gibson while attempting to maintain the quality price point of the guitars.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if Henry and his management team had listened to a few guitar players this sad day may not have arrived.

Well said and on point .

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TheGreek
Dead wrong , jeez Mathijs usually you are right on most everything , not this one .Remember the old Gibson marketing slogan " Only a Gibson is Good Enough" ? It will never be if Gibson off shores production to Asia ,maybe in Mexico as Fender has done with some of there budget lines which are actually well made , but Gibson in Asia -equals FIREWOOD .

I don't agree. Fender Japan is and has been for years making very good instruments, that are perceived by the audience as 'real Fender' instruments. In fact, Fender has an excellent portfolio from cheap to very expensive that basically covers the entire spectrum from $200 to $10,000. And whatever Fender you buy, you never feel cheated.

That's the problem with Gibson, also in their marketing. First off is the problem that nobody perceives Epiphone as a Gibson. Second is that their 'budget' guitars are made in the USA, and hence can not compete in price and quality to say Japanese made instruments. Then there's the Nashville and Memphis line, which are just very expensive for most people, and quality control is so-so. Last is the Custom shop: fantastic instruments, but very expensive.

The marketing of Gibson also has made a huge mistake. They have marketed the 1959 reissue Les Paul from the Custom Shop as 'the holy grail'. For many buyers, whatever guitar you buy it will always feel less than 'that' holy grail. There's no difference in build quality and components and materials between a '58 and a '59, still the '58 is perceived as the lesser guitar. In fact, on the Les Paul Forum people say they bought a 58 because they couldn't afford a '59.

Fender did the marketing right: no matter whether you buy a Japanese, Mexican or American Telecaster, they are all proper Fender instruments and perceived as such by the buying audience.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TheGreek
Dead wrong , jeez Mathijs usually you are right on most everything , not this one .Remember the old Gibson marketing slogan " Only a Gibson is Good Enough" ? It will never be if Gibson off shores production to Asia ,maybe in Mexico as Fender has done with some of there budget lines which are actually well made , but Gibson in Asia -equals FIREWOOD .

I don't agree. Fender Japan is and has been for years making very good instruments, that are perceived by the audience as 'real Fender' instruments. In fact, Fender has an excellent portfolio from cheap to very expensive that basically covers the entire spectrum from $200 to $10,000. And whatever Fender you buy, you never feel cheated.

That's the problem with Gibson, also in their marketing. First off is the problem that nobody perceives Epiphone as a Gibson. Second is that their 'budget' guitars are made in the USA, and hence can not compete in price and quality to say Japanese made instruments. Then there's the Nashville and Memphis line, which are just very expensive for most people, and quality control is so-so. Last is the Custom shop: fantastic instruments, but very expensive.

The marketing of Gibson also has made a huge mistake. They have marketed the 1959 reissue Les Paul from the Custom Shop as 'the holy grail'. For many buyers, whatever guitar you buy it will always feel less than 'that' holy grail. There's no difference in build quality and components and materials between a '58 and a '59, still the '58 is perceived as the lesser guitar. In fact, on the Les Paul Forum people say they bought a 58 because they couldn't afford a '59.

Fender did the marketing right: no matter whether you buy a Japanese, Mexican or American Telecaster, they are all proper Fender instruments and perceived as such by the buying audience.

Mathijs

You are correct visually, and in most cases quality wise, you can't really tell much of a difference between Japanese, Mexican and American made Fenders but there is a big difference at resale. Justified or not, American made guitars hold their resale value much better than foreign made.

I have read the only real difference between the 58 and 59 LP Historics, other than the size of the necks, is the figuring and flaming in the maple tops. The 58 tops are generally plain, or minimal flaming, while the 59's get the more figured tops.

Considering this is how it was for the original 58's and 59's LP's it makes perfect sense for Gibson to make the Historic 58's with plain tops to keep them historically correct. It also offers a differentiation between the two years when it comes to the price as a flamed top is usually more highly prized by collectors and players.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-03 17:49 by oldschool.

I find it astounding that Gibson has been lead into this mess, hopefully the company can find its legs again.

I own three Les Paul's, a 1982 standard, a digital Les Paul from 2006, and an Epiphone with a bigsby. They each have quite different sounds and play in very different manners, my favourite is the standard just because of the neck shape and playing action, but they all sound great.

Having played countless Gibson guitars owned by friends and tried in music stores, the one thing which has been apparent is you can't trust the brand name alone. I have probably picked up just as many Gibsons which I did not like how they played as ones which I thought were fantastic. Gibson gets a hard time because people hold them to a higher standard given their place in the market. But when Gibson gets it right, they make some of the nicest playing guitars around.

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Mathijs

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TheGreek
Dead wrong , jeez Mathijs usually you are right on most everything , not this one .Remember the old Gibson marketing slogan " Only a Gibson is Good Enough" ? It will never be if Gibson off shores production to Asia ,maybe in Mexico as Fender has done with some of there budget lines which are actually well made , but Gibson in Asia -equals FIREWOOD .

I don't agree. Fender Japan is and has been for years making very good instruments, that are perceived by the audience as 'real Fender' instruments. In fact, Fender has an excellent portfolio from cheap to very expensive that basically covers the entire spectrum from $200 to $10,000. And whatever Fender you buy, you never feel cheated.

That's the problem with Gibson, also in their marketing. First off is the problem that nobody perceives Epiphone as a Gibson. Second is that their 'budget' guitars are made in the USA, and hence can not compete in price and quality to say Japanese made instruments. Then there's the Nashville and Memphis line, which are just very expensive for most people, and quality control is so-so. Last is the Custom shop: fantastic instruments, but very expensive.

The marketing of Gibson also has made a huge mistake. They have marketed the 1959 reissue Les Paul from the Custom Shop as 'the holy grail'. For many buyers, whatever guitar you buy it will always feel less than 'that' holy grail. There's no difference in build quality and components and materials between a '58 and a '59, still the '58 is perceived as the lesser guitar. In fact, on the Les Paul Forum people say they bought a 58 because they couldn't afford a '59.

Fender did the marketing right: no matter whether you buy a Japanese, Mexican or American Telecaster, they are all proper Fender instruments and perceived as such by the buying audience.

Mathijs

We can agree to disagree and I will not argue because we all vote with our wallets .The difference between a 58 Custom Shop and a 59 Custom Shop Les Paul is the 59 reissue has the more fancier top and consumers pay for the more figured maple top as that is something visually appealing to myself included .To myself if I am going to shell out that amount of treasure I will want to be all in with the more fancier top ,versus a plain Jane top , but to each there own.I have my own issues with Gibson Custom as far as them going from the reissue series R 9, R 8 and so on up thru 2014 and then going to the TRUE HISTORIC series beginning in 2015 thru 2016 with the most accurate plastics ( please) and hand applied wet sanding thin nitro finishes (to each there own )to hand rolled binding (meh) .The pickups -Custombuckers remained the same going from the R series to the True Historic series (which I do love them a lot ) but they are not exactly vintage 50's PAF's ( for me the best made aftermarket pickups if I can use that term or phrase are ThroBak pickups made in Michigan using Gibson's old winding machines and the same exact wire that was used in the K ZOO plant IN THE golden era (have you ever tried there SLE 101 or if you want them a little hotter the SLE 101 Plus ? ) So for fancy hand wet sanded finish (no thanks as I prefer the Gloss nitro finish ) and the most up to date 50's vintage era plastic and hand rolled binding a up charge of over $ 2000.00 -thanks but no thanks .Which led to a mega mistake not only to consumers but entire music stores because of whatever agreement Gibson wanted to be paid just for the right to carry this most realistic ever series of guitars called True Historic .Which with tanking sales led to layoffs in Gibson Custom and the end of the True Historic series at the end of 2016 .Then in 2017 began a Standard series Custom Shop line ,and the return of the Holy grail highly regarded Brazilian rosewood fingerboards ,which are nice if you can afford the significant up charge . Henry Juskikiewz made some serious blunders by purchasing failing electronics companies and so forth , which just dragged the whole company down into chapter 11 Bankruptcy court .The beauty part and the saving grace for Gibson is the restructuring of Gibson's debt and the termination after a 1 year caretaker role for Henry Juszkiewz and good riddance .

I am a Les Paul junkie and thought some might enjoy this.



















Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-03 23:35 by oldschool.