I saw a clip of Keith playing with the Crickets in 08' at the Musician hall of fame and boy was he struggling. I guess he had problems with his fingers before the tree fall and now it's something else all together. I think the last great Keith tour was the Voodoo tour ... With the ocasional moment of brilliance then on. Every guitar player has their off days specially under blow and booze.... Try listening to the Van Halen shows in Venezuela back in 81' 82' ' Eddie sounds horrific....

I am just surprised Keith hasn't been plagued with questions about his arthritis all these years from the media. Howard Stern could do a show about it. But hell , Keith is one proud S.O.B ... Denial to the teAth...Keith tell me why you can't a play a solo on Sympathy or why aren't you grooving like you once did?

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johnnyjolene
Keith stopped using cocaine after tree accident - he still continued drinking same way and now there wasn't blow anymore to sober/bring him up. I witnessed Stones gig in Helsinki (after tree episode). Keith fell down once, forget main riff of Satisfaction (that sounded really, REALLY bad), He tried to throw pick to audience and almost fly away with pick (Mick amazingly saved him falling of stage). Probably booze worked differently without blow..? I don't know. Whatever. Hope his fine now.

I saw them in Louisville, KY after the Helsinki show. I was just at end of the b-stage where it comes to a stop and a little to Keith's side. I swear Jagger was watching Keith closely and at one point when Keith got to close to the edge he looped his arm though Keith's right arm and brought him back from the edge. Casual fans would have seen it as brotherly or bandmate kind of gesture during a chorus but I was with a few other Stones fans from way back and we all exchanged
a few worried looks. I agree that it seems like Keith is a chord behind the
band.




When it was time for Honky Tonkin and the stage lifted up Jagger was again within arms reach of Keith and seemed to watch, wait and make sure Keith was back Charlie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-26 22:43 by rogue.

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Naturalust

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Edith Grove
I think he mentions in his book that it's not as bad as it looks, .

and his playing isn't as bad as it sounds

WOW! So now it's the amps fault?

Explain the bum notes, missed intros and general seizure of electrified sound that has been heard.

It´s called rock n roll, ...not heavy metal or sports were people go for perfection and not the feel.

I'm so sick of this argument. At what point does it stop being rock and roll and turn into shitty playing?

I'm so sick of the argument where good musician is all about technique with nothing else to offer- and what are we suppose to praise him for - for spending hours and hours with the instrument - and still not having anything to say..not one decent @#$%& song.The most important thing about any musician is the song. if you dont have a song - i dont care how well you play total crap. Great ideas done bad - are always better than shitty music performed with note perfection.
Great guitar players with shitty songs - I call that wanking music.

Bollocks, you don't need a song to be a great player. Now the opposite is terrible.

Really seitan, that is a bit harsh. What about instrumental musicians. People who are writing great music with just their instruments. Does it need a vocal to ring your bell? It's the record industry and our expectations of Stones with MJ's vocal that has you blinded here in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I love the talent and process of songwriting as you describe. Music, vocal , arrangement, harmony, melody and heart combining in a package that wasn't there the day before. Sweet. But the practice is what makes the songwriter free himself of the burdens of the technicality of what he is doing and allow true creation, the channelled unconscious type. peace.

Peace.

Did I mention vocals or lyrics ? - No - I did not. Did I in anyway hint that musical performance needs a singer with lyrics in order to be a song ? - No I did not. As a fan of instrumental 50´s rock n roll I would never say that. As a huge Link Wray fan, I could never say anything as stupid as that.

I´m sick and tired of this guitar heroism crap - that somebody has to play fast solos in order to be a great guitarist - when in fact - it´s the song that people want to hear - (with or without the vocals) and does the practice free musicans from the burdens of the technicality...and all that ? - We are talking about music - not sports.

If you sit down with your guitar and practise 10 hours a day for next 5 years - you will become a guitarist - but even if you play with your guitar 20 hours a day for next 20 years - the chances are that you still wont get anywhere near of writing masterpieces as great as "Jumpin Jack Flash" or "Johnny B Goode" - In my humble opinion - all this rubbish about guitar heroes playing fast solos with technicality...is ..well, we can all get a bucket of paint and a brush - and no matter how much we paint - it would a be god given miracle if we could come up with a better painting than "Guernica" or "Mona Lisa"

Now, we were talking about Keef (not Mick Jagger - the singer) - and people were complaining about his lack of technicality now that he's getting old - Is there a law that after certain age - Painters like Frida Kahlo and Picasso should stop painting and musicians like Keith should stop playing ?

Well, we are talking about a man who wrote "Gimme Shelter" and "Start Me Up" - what more do you want ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-26 22:47 by seitan.

Gimme a break. - "Dad, first you have to kiss and then you should..."

When people insult Keith Richards as a guitarist - to me it's like telling your own daddy how to have sex with a woman.

This is getting a bit much for me. I've seen Keith make mistakes that were clearly from age and his bump on the head. I have also seen Jagger grab his arm before he walked off the b stage while it was moving on the last tour. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I know what I saw and I have my doubts about his ability to tour next year and it not be noticeable to everyone that time has caught up with him. That is all.

I think I will keep off this board for awhile. It is too serious and depressing.

Yes he's Losing His Touch, everyone does.

Just hope he doesn't loose his balance again like in the tree or on stage!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-26 22:53 by steel driving hammer.

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Naturalust
I have heard KR talk about it in person. He said "some days are better than others, what are you gonna do?" . There are plenty of cures starting to hit the market and his wife has got him taking a handful of pills (vitamins mostly) that would take me 30 minutes to get down.
By the way, I saw signs of that arthritus in the EARLY 80's on Keith's hands , and e are pictures around that hint at the swollen joints even in the late 70's.
He'll find a way around it if he has to play with his new teeth or his toes! He is a survivor and I'll take whatever he has to dish out, bad notes and all.

Go Keith! peace.

Yeah, and Kurt Cobain loved Pearl Jam too.

No jerk, He loved Eddie Vedder. Don't you have a soap opera to watch or something? seeya! peace.

Hahahaha! Whatever you say. Man, you're too predictable.

Hook.

Line.

Sinker.

Peace to you too!

(I win)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-28 07:41 by bustedtrousers.

he admits it on the bbc 60 minutes during the bang tour

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melillo
he admits it on the bbc 60 minutes during the bang tour

You have a clip?

It wasn't a palm tree.

I heard that he actually had a heart attack. It wasn't a fall from a tree. He went too hard for too long. He is destructable. I saw him in Regina after the two shows he did here in 2006, and I could tell that he was a lot different. There was a lot less energy than we had come to expect from Keith Richards. It seemed like he was really taking it easy. But he has some of the best doctors looking after him so he might be ok. As for a strenuous world tour, I can't see it ever being as large of a scale as it used to be. Plus he has to be insured in order to play those big shows. They might not allow him to take part if his health is bad. But I really hope he'll be ok. I noticed that his fingers loook like my grandfather's who is in his late 80's with the bulging joints in each finger.

They could turn his amp down and Blondie could do it.

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GravityBoy
They could turn his amp down and Blondie could do it.

I have no definitive opinion on it, but a lot of people on here say that this is already the case.

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seitan

When people insult Keith Richards as a guitarist - to me it's like telling your own daddy how to have sex with a woman.

That certainly is an interesting - albeit awkward and unpleasant - take on it.

What seitan continues to fail to grasp is that for the price of tickets this Keith is allowed to continue. That not only says something about him but also about the company he keeps. Keith, the wanna-be pirate of the band, has had his tail between his legs as far back as 1989 with the Donald Trump deal. He's part of the machine that is involved in its own greed - and he does nothing to combat it. He gave his power up a long time ago. His guitar playing abilities have declined but he has aided in that decline somewhat.

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Edith Grove
I think he mentions in his book that it's not as bad as it looks, .

and his playing isn't as bad as it sounds

WOW! So now it's the amps fault?

Explain the bum notes, missed intros and general seizure of electrified sound that has been heard.

It´s called rock n roll, ...not heavy metal or sports were people go for perfection and not the feel.

I'm so sick of this argument. At what point does it stop being rock and roll and turn into shitty playing?

I'm so sick of the argument where good musician is all about technique with nothing else to offer- and what are we suppose to praise him for - for spending hours and hours with the instrument - and still not having anything to say..not one decent @#$%& song. Everyone can practise - it´s a god given talent when you write great songs.

The most important thing about any musician is the song. if you dont have a song - i dont care how well you play total crap. Great ideas done bad - are always better than shitty music performed with note perfection.
Great guitar players with shitty songs - I call that wanking music.

Who here is saying Keith needs to be some kind of virtuoso? He has NEVER been a real technical player, yet, we're still fans of him in spite of it so obviously that's not the issue. The problem with saying "It's rock and roll. At least hes got feel!" is that it masks the fact that his playing has deteriorated significantly. No one is looking for absolute perfection, but the guy can't even play his own songs anymore. I'm all for looseness because it IS rock and roll and that's part of what made the Stones, and Keith, great in the first place, and I'd take Keith over many of the guitarists who can technically outplay him, but that doesn't mean he just gets a free pass for every single thing he does or doesn't do. Feel can only take you so far. The shit still has to sound decent.

I say we give Mathijs a chance to sit in for and with Keith. He's our man as far as I've heard and I'll bet he would even give some of us tickets. Are you up for it Mathijs? peace.

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Edith Grove
I think he mentions in his book that it's not as bad as it looks, .

and his playing isn't as bad as it sounds

WOW! So now it's the amps fault?

Explain the bum notes, missed intros and general seizure of electrified sound that has been heard.

It´s called rock n roll, ...not heavy metal or sports were people go for perfection and not the feel.

I'm so sick of this argument. At what point does it stop being rock and roll and turn into shitty playing?

When the casual fan that is a non musician begins to see it! Not until!

ok. then now?

I saw them at Qwest in October of '06 toward the end of ABB. I am not a musician. I thought he looked and sounded great, however, a friend of mine who is also not a musician thought he was getting lost at times. So, I don't know. Seemed like the audience was having a great time.

there's no proven correlation between the number of bad notes keith plays and the amount of fun a stones audience has. studies have been done, but to date, no definitive results.

There is however a positive correlation between the number of bad notes Keith plays and the size of blondie's salary.

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Naturalust
I say we give Mathijs a chance to sit in for and with Keith. He's our man as far as I've heard and I'll bet he would even give some of us tickets. Are you up for it Mathijs? peace.

Are you kidding me. He has more bull crap that a bag of fertilizer.

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Edith Grove
I think he mentions in his book that it's not as bad as it looks, .

and his playing isn't as bad as it sounds

WOW! So now it's the amps fault?

Explain the bum notes, missed intros and general seizure of electrified sound that has been heard.

It´s called rock n roll, ...not heavy metal or sports were people go for perfection and not the feel.

I'm so sick of this argument. At what point does it stop being rock and roll and turn into shitty playing?

When the casual fan that is a non musician begins to see it! Not until!

ok. then now?

I saw them at Qwest in October of '06 toward the end of ABB. I am not a musician. I thought he looked and sounded great, however, a friend of mine who is also not a musician thought he was getting lost at times. So, I don't know. Seemed like the audience was having a great time.

there's no proven correlation between the number of bad notes keith plays and the amount of fun a stones audience has. studies have been done, but to date, no definitive results.

There is however a positive correlation between the number of bad notes Keith plays and the size of blondie's salary.

there's also a positive correlation between the amount of alcohol ronnie drinks and chances in hell mac will ever play with the band again.

I take it as a good indicator of future Stones concerts that Mick has yet to publicly slam Keith's playing.

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Send It To me
I take it as a good indicator of future Stones concerts that Mick has yet to publicly slam Keith's playing.

well, that would kinda be improper since the guy hasn't played anything yet

It is a good sign, but if the tour idea gets nixed on account of Keith having physical difficulties, I don't think Jagger will be classless enough to say that.

The bit to worry about might be what will Keith have to say about it.

I don't doubt they can probably get by on Taylor, Richards, Wood though. The money is there, and if they can share the load, why not? They don't *really* need to run around the stage (and of course Taylor never did).

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Loudei
Do reporters or interviewers ask Keith the question : do you have arthritis? How much has effected your playing? Why the mystery? Not a single word about in his biography about it, nothing, nada.... Keith is now the number 4 greatest guitar player of all time yet nobody dares to ask or find out. What chords are hard for him to play? What's the story? I am sure this topic is old and we will probably never know.

I'd suspect that arthritis may be an issue for our boy, Keith. Just watch videos from the BB tour. He still rocks, but his solos favor slower, simpler licks than some of the faster leads he once pulled off. He also rarely plays steady relentlessly chugging chord parts as he once did, favoring a more choppy pattern of hitting big chords then stopping to throw in a simple riff. Notice how also on his solo songs, he pretty much takes a break from playing at all except for a solo. I suspect this may be why they brought Blondie Chaplain in. Between him and Ronnie, the live shows sound very similar to the guitar work of earlier days,but Keith no longer plays those constantly thrashing chords himself anymore and his solos are much simpler. I feel bad for him. I hope he can still play well enough to pull off another tour.

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johnnyjolene
Keith stopped using cocaine after tree accident - he still continued drinking same way and now there wasn't blow anymore to sober/bring him up. I witnessed Stones gig in Helsinki (after tree episode). Keith fell down once, forget main riff of Satisfaction (that sounded really, REALLY bad), He tried to throw pick to audience and almost fly away with pick (Mick amazingly saved him falling of stage). Probably booze worked differently without blow..? I don't know. Whatever. Hope his fine now.

I was really upset to read reviews of the show you mention, as I had tickets for an upcoming show when the Stones returned to the states. Had keith lost it? Maybe he went back on the road too soon. Anyway, I saw them in October of '06 at Giants Stadium outside of NYC and he was in great form. From the opening number, IORR, he was channelling Chuck Berry like it was 1969. I remember hearing people around me saying things like, "Wow! Keith is really ON tonight!" So maybe he just needed more time to recover. Also he was prescribed Dilatin to prevent blood clots. Perhaps, initially, Keith was not prepared for the combo of dilantin and alcohol. He was told not to drink on it, but you know Keith..

For guitar player (as I am too), sickness/pain in your hands/fingers is worst Nightmare you could imagine. Especially when your name is Keith Richards - EVERYONE is expecting you to deliver same wonderful solos/riffs as you did when you were 35 or so..

I'm gonna be happy if I even see the guy live 1 more time.

After all, we're all gonna die but before that were gonna get old and probably sick.

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues
What seitan continues to fail to grasp is that for the price of tickets this Keith is allowed to continue. That not only says something about him but also about the company he keeps. Keith, the wanna-be pirate of the band, has had his tail between his legs as far back as 1989 with the Donald Trump deal. He's part of the machine that is involved in its own greed - and he does nothing to combat it. He gave his power up a long time ago. His guitar playing abilities have declined but he has aided in that decline somewhat.

I fail to grasp, Ok explain it me please.
Keith is allowed to continue ? - well, how should they stop him ? Is there a law against old guitar players ? He's part of the machine that is involved in its own greed and he does nothing to combat it ? - Ok, so what should he do, Write a book ? His guitar playing abilities have declined but he has aided in that decline somewhat. - How has he aided that ?

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Send It To me
I take it as a good indicator of future Stones concerts that Mick has yet to publicly slam Keith's playing.

well, that would kinda be improper since the guy hasn't played anything yet

Part from Tom Waits album...

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Naturalust
I say we give Mathijs a chance to sit in for and with Keith. He's our man as far as I've heard and I'll bet he would even give some of us tickets. Are you up for it Mathijs? peace.

No way -we will then have endless discussions on this board that the Stones sound too much like the '81 tour again!

Mathijs

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johnnyjolene
Keith stopped using cocaine after tree accident - he still continued drinking same way and now there wasn't blow anymore to sober/bring him up. I witnessed Stones gig in Helsinki (after tree episode). Keith fell down once, forget main riff of Satisfaction (that sounded really, REALLY bad), He tried to throw pick to audience and almost fly away with pick (Mick amazingly saved him falling of stage). Probably booze worked differently without blow..? I don't know. Whatever. Hope his fine now.

I was really upset to read reviews of the show you mention, as I had tickets for an upcoming show when the Stones returned to the states. Had keith lost it? Maybe he went back on the road too soon. Anyway, I saw them in October of '06 at Giants Stadium outside of NYC and he was in great form. From the opening number, IORR, he was channelling Chuck Berry like it was 1969. I remember hearing people around me saying things like, "Wow! Keith is really ON tonight!" So maybe he just needed more time to recover. Also he was prescribed Dilatin to prevent blood clots. Perhaps, initially, Keith was not prepared for the combo of dilantin and alcohol. He was told not to drink on it, but you know Keith..

The gossip in Helsinki, Finland at the time was that Keith was drunk as a skunk...I wasnt at the gig, so I cant tell..but what I heard from friends who attended that show, they all said the same thing..Keith was shitfaced drunk.